GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #72

[Poedelini]

When the first co-workers arrived at cervi 3-19, Chris was parked in an unusual spot, across the parking space over by the oil pump or well head. This spot was closer to where he buried SW. I would guess that he first went to the oil tanks to park, so that he could murder the girls at once and carry them up the stairs together.
i think the part that took the longest was digging the hole unless he had done some of that work earlier. For that reason he probably moved the truck over to the well head.
No way he dragged SW out first and left her lying there on the berm while the kids watched.
Also, I don't know how sensitive that parking space is to footprints, but he would have 2 longish round trips to the tanks if he hadn't parked nearer to the tanks. I still don't believe that coworker was telling the whole story of why he went back to cervi the next morning to look around.

I found in the discovery files that he said it took like 20 / 30 minutes to dig the grave of Shannan. Page 541.

I found something interesting in the discovery files page 559

CASSIE told me that in Scottsdale, AZ SHANANN mentioned that CHRIS had oil field insight and knew wells were
going to be drilled around the area of their housing area. This will cause their value to drop and SHANANN
said CHRIS wanted to sell the house before the wells were drilled. SHANANN said that they themselves
were not worried about living near oil wells. She said she loves her home and did not want to leave it.

I never knew it was his idea to sell their home.

 

[NuttMegg]

Do you think the co-worker was somehow involved?

SBM
No I don't think any co-worker, with the possible exception of NK, was involved in the crime, but maybe, yes, in omission of essential evidence. It's just that there are so many loose ends, and possibly it's my own fault for not remembering all of the discovery and content of the interviews.

IIRC NK said that CW sent her a text, or texts, saying that the family was gone. She got this/these at 3:45 when she got home, and since Jim was there at her house she didn't pay any real attention to CW's texts until later. Well, I think she actually did know about CW leaving work early, and that his family was missing. And I think she knew about this before she left work.

IMO all his immediate field co-workers, the guys, the ones interviewed, knew about the affair. Why? Because it doesn't make sense that one of the co-workers would notice that CW was staring at NK every morning as she walked in to the meeting room, to the refer and back out, and that none of the others would notice that, and that they wouldn't joke, or wink, about it. And that he saw CW/NK very close together in the office, and that no one else noticed. Well, everyone notices things like that in an office where there is one sexy looking woman and a bunch of 30-40ish outdoorsy workers.

So, I think the guy who went back Tuesday morning already did know about the affair, knew about the family missing, and this contributed to his going back again. But there is a piece missing there, IMO, the "why?". Yes, he noticed CW wasn't wearing the right shoes, his clothes were old ones, one pant leg was in, one out, he was parked in the wrong place, was distracted, etc. But "what else"?

I think guys cover for each other re extramarital affairs, and that a whole bunch of guilt was building up in this guy, sensing a more ominous scenario than he realized the day before.

So, we have some key ppl knowing, IMO, about the affair, about CW leaving early on Monday, about the family going missing. There just isn't any way that NK, being back in the office, would not have picked up on the fact that he left early. She said she was thinking he had just arrived home from work at the normal time.

I keep coming back to the 111 minute phone call before he murdered his family. I'm open to entertaining that there was a big blowout ensuing, started at the sports bar the night before, and reaching the apex on Sunday night, we've all mentioned this. But, was she so angry (at his vacillating on the apartment, no apparent movement towards divorce, etc), that she went over to his house to have it out with him. Knowing that there was no way SW could get back until 2. am. "And then what happened"?

I am on the conservative end of the spectrum of conspiracy advocates. So I have to leave it like this IMO 1) the coworker who returned to the site knew something hinky was going on, and that NK was in there in one way or another which made all his suspicions based on something a lot worse than CW having baggy clothes and old shoes on. And 2) NK knew, IMO, right at the time CW left work that something was up with the family (if not way before), and that whole story about not paying attention to CW texts until later after her friend had left....bogus.

 

[NuttMegg]

I found in the discovery files that he said it took like 20 / 30 minutes to dig the grave of Shannan. Page 541.

I found something interesting in the discovery files page 559



I never knew it was his idea to sell their home.

Was that conversation after SW returned from NC, ie his idea to sell the house? Does anyone else remember conversations about SW/CW wanting to downsize houses which entered into calling Ann? Were any of her texts with Ann available to see if downsizing was mentioned?

I'd like to know when it was that he mentioned to her about the imminent drilling in the area of their house.

 

[Poedelini]

Was that conversation after SW returned from NC, ie his idea to sell the house? Does anyone else remember conversations about SW/CW wanting to downsize houses which entered into calling Ann? Were any of her texts with Ann available to see if downsizing was mentioned?

I'd like to know when it was that he mentioned to her about the imminent drilling in the area of their house.

Shannan told Cassie in Arizona that weekend before she and her kids where murdered. She never said when Chris told her though. Maybe i find more later when i dig through the rest.

 

[pinkie60]

SBM
No I don't think any co-worker, with the possible exception of NK, was involved in the crime, but maybe, yes, in omission of essential evidence. It's just that there are so many loose ends, and possibly it's my own fault for not remembering all of the discovery and content of the interviews.

IIRC NK said that CW sent her a text, or texts, saying that the family was gone. She got this/these at 3:45 when she got home, and since Jim was there at her house she didn't pay any real attention to CW's texts until later. Well, I think she actually did know about CW leaving work early, and that his family was missing. And I think she knew about this before she left work.

IMO all his immediate field co-workers, the guys, the ones interviewed, knew about the affair. Why? Because it doesn't make sense that one of the co-workers would notice that CW was staring at NK every morning as she walked in to the meeting room, to the refer and back out, and that none of the others would notice that. And that he saw CW/NK very close together in the office, and that no one else noticed. Well, everyone notices things like that in an office where there is one sexy looking woman and a bunch of youngish outdoorsy workers.

So, I think the guy who went back Tuesday morning already did know about the affair, knew about the family missing, and this contributed to his going back again. But there is a piece missing there, IMO, the "why?". Yes, he noticed CW wasn't wearing the right shoes, his clothes were old ones, one pant leg was in, one out, he was parked in the wrong place, was distracted, etc. But "what else"?

I think guys cover for each other re extramarital affairs, and that a whole bunch of guilt was building up in this guy, sensing a more ominous scenario than he realized the day before.

So, we have some key ppl knowing, IMO, about the affair, about CW leaving early on Monday, about the family going missing. There just isn't any way that NK, being back in the office, would not have picked up on the fact that he left early. She said she was thinking he had just arrived home from work at the normal time.

I keep coming back to the 111 minute phone call before he murdered his family. I'm open to entertaining that there was a big blowout ensuing, started at the sports bar the night before, and reaching the apex on Sunday night, we've all mentioned this. But, was she so angry (at his vacillating on the apartment, no apparent movement towards divorce, etc), that she went over to his house to have it out with him. Knowing that there was no way SW could get back until 2. am. "And then what happened"?

I am on the conservative end of the spectrum of conspiracy advocates. So I have to leave it like this IMO 1) the coworker who returned to the site knew something hinky was going on, and that NK was in there in one way or another which made all his suspicions based on something a lot worse than CW having baggy clothes and old shoes on. And 2) NK knew, IMO, right at the time CW left work that something was up with the family (if not way before), and that whole story about not paying attention to CW texts until late at night after her friend had left....bogus.

They had 2 phone conversations both around 1 hr with a shorter FaceTime in between those calls on Monday evening and they continued to text each other about every hour until early morning. NK said she was so upset she couldn't sleep and kept calling to see if everything was all right.
It makes sense if she was in on it she as well as CW would be scared. Shanann Bella and Cece weren't supposed to be missing people if you believe the explosion plan.
They would be very concerned about the police searching the house, what did they find etc
There was a phone on the workout bench in the basement, some jeans in the kitchen and some blue gloves on the floor. Lucky for them the police didn't have a warrant that first day

 

[NuttMegg]

Shannan told Cassie in Arizona that weekend before she and her kids where murdered. She never said when Chris told her though. Maybe i find more later when i dig through the rest.

Thanks, that might make a big difference, ie when he suggested selling the house.

 

[NuttMegg]

They had 2 phone conversations both around 1 hr with a shorter FaceTime in between those calls on Monday evening and they continued to text each other about every hour until early morning. NK said she was so upset she couldn't sleep and kept calling to see if everything was all right.
It makes sense if she was in on it she as well as CW would be scared. Shanann Bella and Cece weren't supposed to be missing people if you believe the explosion plan.
They would be very concerned about the police searching the house, what did they find etc
There was a phone on the workout bench in the basement, some jeans in the kitchen and some blue gloves on the floor. Lucky for them the police didn't have a warrant that first day

I'd sure like to know to what extent LE investigated her GPS locations that night. However, if she left her phone on, and at home, while she herself went to CW's house there might not have been any GPS giveaway. She could have had a burner phone, anyway. Anyway, did LE do anything more than just believe her that she was home that night?

 

[Poedelini]

Thanks, that might make a big difference, ie when he suggested selling the house.

I found what Shannan told Ann the Realtor about selling the house in the discovery files page 595.

SHANANN reaches out to ANN to tell her that she and CHRIS would like to talk with her about selling the
house. She told ANN that she was out of town until late Sunday. ANN asked SHANANN where they
wanted to move. SHANANN told her he CHRIS was talking about Brighton or Fort Lupton, stating they
cannot move too far south due to his job. SHANANN said they had just talked about it last night. She then
said they have thought about it off and on, but the construction behind them was holding them back.

 

[Poedelini]

They had 2 phone conversations both around 1 hr with a shorter FaceTime in between those calls on Monday evening and they continued to text each other about every hour until early morning. NK said she was so upset she couldn't sleep and kept calling to see if everything was all right.
It makes sense if she was in on it she as well as CW would be scared. Shanann Bella and Cece weren't supposed to be missing people if you believe the explosion plan.
They would be very concerned about the police searching the house, what did they find etc
There was a phone on the workout bench in the basement, some jeans in the kitchen and some blue gloves on the floor. Lucky for them the police didn't have a warrant that first day

Yes i know! The gloves and that extra phone, i wish we had more insight of how it was used.

 

[NuttMegg]

I found what Shannan told Ann the Realtor about selling the house in the discovery files page 595.

That Monday morning, IIRC CW said that Ann told him about a house potentially available, told him the address, and he said he would check it out. We can't believe anything he says, but I'd like to know if the house was a down-sized option.
In these 8 months I know I read that they were in the process of downsizing the house, and we discussed it here, I just don't remember where that was, maybe in the discovery.

 

[NuttMegg]

I found what Shannan told Ann the Realtor about selling the house in the discovery files page 595.

"SHANANN said they had just talked about it last night" Did Ann say when the conversation with SW took place? I'm pretty sure she called Ann after the NC trip. CW said Ann had already found a house to look at, alternatively we learned that most of that early contact was to get "pre-approved". Ann was surprised that CW called her because her earlier conversation(s) had been with SW. So maybe she wouldn't even have told CW about a house to look at if SW wasn't in on the conversation.

(Being already murdered, although Ann had no way of knowing)

 

[Poedelini]

"SHANANN said they had just talked about it last night" Did Ann say when the conversation with SW took place? I'm pretty sure she called Ann after the NC trip. CW said Ann had already found a house to look at, also we learned that most of that early contact was to get "pre-approved". Ann was surprised that CW called her because her earlier conversation(s) had been with SW. So maybe she wouldn't even have told CW about a house to look at if SW wasn't in on the conversation.

(Being already murdered, although Ann had no way of knowing)

The conversation took place of chris and shannan thursday night the 9th of august. She then told Ann on friday the 10th of august through facebook.
Shannan also said

SHANANN said they do not want to downsize for the same price they are paying, though.

I don't see anything else about house stuff.

 

[NuttMegg]

OK, thanks. Then the whole house conversation with Ann took place after NC, apparently. And, the subject of downsizing had been approached, so I am not dreaming things. She/they wanted to downsize if it meant lower house payments, which makes sense.

So it looks like CW brought up selling the house after she got back, he just couldn't bring up the fact that he had a mistress, and there doesn't seem to be any backup for what he implied to NK, that they were selling the house so SW could find one for herself and the kids. Of course CW/NK are liars, so who knows what really took place.

Thanks for looking all of that up. I never did get the docs to the point where I could search efficiently.

 

[Seenit]

When the first co-workers arrived at cervi 3-19, Chris was parked in an unusual spot, across the parking space over by the oil pump or well head. This spot was closer to where he buried SW. I would guess that he first went to the oil tanks to park, so that he could murder the girls at once and carry them up the stairs together.
i think the part that took the longest was digging the hole unless he had done some of that work earlier. For that reason he probably moved the truck over to the well head.
No way he dragged SW out first and left her lying there on the berm while the kids watched.
Also, I don't know how sensitive that parking space is to footprints, but he would have 2 longish round trips to the tanks if he hadn't parked nearer to the tanks. I still don't believe that coworker was telling the whole story of why he went back to cervi the next morning to look around.

What do you feel the co-worker is holding back about? Just curious.

 

[NuttMegg]

What do you feel the co-worker is holding back about? Just curious.

Idk. Maybe some knowledge of the affair combined with erratic behavior of cw plus some observation of his own that nk was always on a ledge. And wife & kids gone. There must have been more communication between coworkers later on Monday, about what they observed when they all arrived at cervi. And that other coworker was waiting for help at a nearby battery while cw was murdering the family. I wonder what he thought (later on) when cw said he'd be over in awhile, paraphrased.

He had a premonition based on something more than what he mentioned re attire, imo.

 

[NuttMegg]

Now that my memory is refreshed as to when the house conversation took place, ie Thurs the 9th, I remember that Cw & nk had a hookup on Wed night, then Thursday he comes up with the business about oil wells coming to their neighborhood which would devalue their house.

i really doubt that cw came up with that on his own, right in the middle of nk furiously looking at apartments for him and even telling him he could consider a house.

 

[Poedelini]

NK's friend was deleting messages also. This is so weird. Discovery page fil 636

Hi, Agent Galbraith, this is Charlotte Nelson. Im looking through my phone and the latest text messages I have
from Nikki start on August 21st and we mostly talk about my dad passing away and my family issues and also
that she is concerned with the Media. I probably deleted the whole conversation when Nikki asked me to
delete pictures we have together on Facebook because the media was calling her friends to get information. I
know about the text messages we talked about because yesterday evening I got ur voicemail and when Nikki
came over later that night I told her you had called and that I wanted to verify that it was actually the CBI
calling me and not a scammer trying to get information. I asked her why you would be calling me and she said
it could be because of the texts we exchanged and then she showed me. Im sorry I dont have any messages
before that. Would you like me to still send you everything starting Aug 21st. Also, I left you a voicemail
regarding a question I have. My question is if the text messages you have are going to be made public matter. I
shared very personal information about mine and my boyfriends intimate life and I Im concerned about what
will be released. Please let me know or call me for any more questions.

And your very welcome @NuttMegg

If i need to search up anything else for anyone let me know.

Now that my memory is refreshed as to when the house conversation took place, ie Thurs the 9th, I remember that Cw & nk had a hookup on Wed night, then Thursday he comes up with the business about oil wells coming to their neighborhood which would devalue their house.

i really doubt that cw came up with that on his own, right in the middle of nk furiously looking at apartments for him and even telling him he could consider a house.

I agree he is a pretty good copy and paste guy with what we saw.

 

[pocketaccent]

OK, thanks. Then the whole house conversation with Ann took place after NC, apparently. And, the subject of downsizing had been approached, so I am not dreaming things. She/they wanted to downsize if it meant lower house payments, which makes sense.

So it looks like CW brought up selling the house after she got back, he just couldn't bring up the fact that he had a mistress, and there doesn't seem to be any backup for what he implied to NK, that they were selling the house so SW could find one for herself and the kids. Of course CW/NK are liars, so who knows what really took place.

Thanks for looking all of that up. I never did get the docs to the point where I could search efficiently.

Why I believe it was Shanann who first brought up selling the house:

Following is text messages between Shanann and her friend while Shanann was in NC. These are from the second document dump, I believe.

Aug 4, Saturday
SW: ...I don't want him staying with us in Colorado...

Aug 5, Sunday
SW: ...Drove 3 hours in silence. I told him to find a place when we get back and I'm putting house on market he said nothing......
....I need to move out of colorado. Too expensive to live alone with 3 kids. I'm not moving to NC....
...Housing doesn't take long to sell. But apartment in Colorado cost same as owning. So I have to figure this out and where I'm going before putting house on market...
...I don't even know where to begin besides find a place to live where I have some kind of support...I'm gonna start selling things at the house when I return. Take kids out of school to save money. His family gets what they wanted..
.
...I don't even know if I can take kids out of state. I don't expect him to fight me...

(I believe this text is from 1st document dump)
Aug 6, Monday
SW: ...Chris doesn't want this baby. Said he's scared to death and he's happy with just Bella and Celeste! He thought he wanted another baby. How I got this out of him I said do you want me to abort?
...He was ready to call it quits without working it through. Just like his family does. I will fight for full custody..He said not divorce right away..

Aug 9, Thursday
Things turned around dramatically. CW became nice nice to Shanann and began to give her false hope for a brighter future together. I think this is when he suggested that they downsize and move to brighton and work on their marriage blah blah blah...So Shanann began to make arrangement with Ann to sell the house, totally unaware of what that evil man was actually planning - get rid of his family, imo.

 

[Poedelini]

Why I believe it was Shanann who first brought up selling the house:

Following is text messages between Shanann and her friend while Shanann was in NC. These are from the second document dump, I believe.

Aug 4, Saturday
SW: ...I don't want him staying with us in Colorado...

Aug 5, Sunday
SW: ...Drove 3 hours in silence. I told him to find a place when we get back and I'm putting house on market he said nothing......
....I need to move out of colorado. Too expensive to live alone with 3 kids. I'm not moving to NC....
...Housing doesn't take long to sell. But apartment in Colorado cost same as owning. So I have to figure this out and where I'm going before putting house on market...
...I don't even know where to begin besides find a place to live where I have some kind of support...I'm gonna start selling things at the house when I return. Take kids out of school to save money. His family gets what they wanted..
.
...I don't even know if I can take kids out of state. I don't expect him to fight me...

(I believe this text is from 1st document dump)
Aug 6, Monday
SW: ...Chris doesn't want this baby. Said he's scared to death and he's happy with just Bella and Celeste! He thought he wanted another baby. How I got this out of him I said do you want me to abort?
...He was ready to call it quits without working it through. Just like his family does. I will fight for full custody..He said not divorce right away..

Aug 9, Thursday
Things turned around dramatically. CW became nice nice to Shanann and began to give her false hope for a brighter future together. I think this is when he suggested that they downsize and move to brighton and work on their marriage blah blah blah...So Shanann began to make arrangement with Ann to sell the house, totally unaware of what that evil man was actually planning - get rid of his family, imo.

In what documents did you found these? and which page? There is so much documents.

Good find by the way!

 

[Beltonian]

pocketaccent, great post.

I don't expect him to fight me...

That's it...she did not even expect him to fight for custody, full and complete trust, sure that divorce or not he has babies' best interest in his heart ...If she only knew what kind of fight he had prepared...