Cobra: Tapes, Interviews & Case Discussion

[lonetraveler]

Was this gun found AFTER Haleigh disappeared? I think it was. I say rc put it there or had Tommy hide it there (for safekeeping) before 911 was called. He told LE he had a 9mm berreta in the house. They may have gone looking for it and couldn't find it.

Later, LE insisted on having it and he made up the gun story and told them JO must have stolen it. He went to the spot or sent misty and played a game pretending to have her search for a "stolen" gun and miraculously found it...

Even the dumbest of criminals would not steal a gun and hide it on the owner's family property.

What kind of a carp story is this? It reads like they're old friends but supposedly Joe stole RC's gun the first time they met and they had a fight and a tense relationship ever since, so when exactly was it that they amicably "used to" fish, shoot the breeze and talk about life?

I agree. I have not heard that the Croslins knew Ron Cummings for very long. Didn't he know Misty or only five months prior to Haleigh disappearing?

 

[jessigirl]

When I first heard the story about the gators I thought OK thats where Ronald Cummings or someone in his family put her...so she would never be found..Then I realized several months later his mother and his grandmother would have never allowed that to take place..IMHO the gator story Ron told Cobra is just another Red Herring thrown out to deflect from the truth....Rest assured though Ron and his family knew they had to dispose of her remains in a way the cause of death could never be revealed..And since they couldn't risk her remains ever being located I can only think of two ways her remains could have been disposed of...And neither of them are what Ronald Cummings attempted to persuade Cobra on those tapes to believe concerning Haleigh and the gators....JMO

I understand what you are saying, but why I believe the gator scenario is truth based&since the recent search now more than ever I believe it has got to be atleast somewhat involved with her death and/or disposal of her little body, is for the simple fact that[GATOR INVOLVEMENT] is the scenario Tommy also described( a full 14 months after Ron stated this to Cobra in these tapes) and I feel Tommy would have had no idea of the Ron&Cobra discussions, nor would he in any way collude, corroborate, and certainly NOT cover up ANYTHING for Ron Cummings, ever. And I feel that even if his reasons for doing so would be because he was covering for his sister, Tommy would HAVE long ago implicated Ron and leave Misty out of the scenario. As I feel that is what he has done with his story, anyway, but with Joe as the perpetrator and CONVENIENTLY leaving OUT the parts of the story that implicate himself&his sister. I believe he woulda given Ron scenario long ago(if he could somehow make it fit) I believe when LE says they're still waiting to get more info, its those parts perpetrated by Tommy&Misty that they are referring to,along with enough corroborating evidence, cuz they know they only got one shot to GET THIS RIGHT and ENSURE COMPLETE JUSTICE FOR HALEIGH!... IMHO

 

[Donjeta]

I understand what you are saying, but why I believe the gator scenario is truth based&since the recent search now more than ever I believe it has got to be atleast somewhat involved with her death and/or disposal of her little body, is for the simple fact that[GATOR INVOLVEMENT] is the scenario Tommy also described( a full 14 months after Ron stated this to Cobra in these tapes) and I feel Tommy would have had no idea of the Ron&Cobra discussions, nor would he in any way collude, corroborate, and certainly NOT cover up ANYTHING for Ron Cummings, ever. And I feel that even if his reasons for doing so would be because he was covering for his sister, Tommy would HAVE long ago implicated Ron and leave Misty out of the scenario. As I feel that is what he has done with his story, anyway, but with Joe as the perpetrator and CONVENIENTLY leaving OUT the parts of the story that implicate himself&his sister. I believe he woulda given Ron scenario long ago(if he could somehow make it fit) I believe when LE says they're still waiting to get more info, its those parts perpetrated by Tommy&Misty that they are referring to,along with enough corroborating evidence, cuz they know they only got one shot to GET THIS RIGHT and ENSURE COMPLETE JUSTICE FOR HALEIGH!... IMHO

I haven't decided one way or another about the truthfulness of the gator story or parts of it, but I don't understand why you think Tommy couldn't have heard of the discussions Ron and Cobra had. Websleuthers have known about the gator story for ages and we're not even on talking terms with people like Cobra, AH, Misty, Joe's folks in Tennessee who might have heard and talked about it. Tommy could have spoken with Ronald himself, even, at least before they got into a fight. Even if he's not talking to anybody who talks to Ronald or Cobra the gator story was floating on the internet pretty early on, and what with all the myspaces we've seen he's bound to know people who are online, and some of them have got to have been checking out what people are saying about the Haleigh case and rumors get around.

Edited to add that IMO these people have kept themselves pretty much up-to-date about what people are saying about them or the case because they have made public comments that show that they're aware of the gist of the buzz, IMO.

 

[Concerned Papa]

For months now, I have posted link after link from leading Universities, Government Agencies, and even the Smithsonian Institute, all of which categorically state that the tale told by Mr. Cummings and crew can not possibly have happened due to the biological makeup of alligators in water temperatures less than 65–70 degrees F. I have posted information and links from NOAA, a government agency, clearly showing that the water temperature in the St Johns River was well below the biological mechanism dormancy trigger for alligators during every minute of every day of Joe Overstreet’s two week visit in February of 2009.

If some choose to believe this information meaningless because Ronald Cummings said so and a Tommy Coslin story backed him up, then so be it. I’m through with the topic.

 

[Chablis]

For months now, I have posted link after link from leading Universities, Government Agencies, and even the Smithsonian Institute, all of which categorically state that the tale told by Mr. Cummings and crew can not possibly have happened due to the biological makeup of alligators in water temperatures less than 65–70 degrees F. I have posted information and links from NOAA, a government agency, clearly showing that the water temperature in the St Johns River was well below the biological mechanism dormancy trigger for alligators during every minute of every day of Joe Overstreet’s two week visit in February of 2009.

If some choose to believe this information meaningless because Ronald Cummings said so and a Tommy Coslin story backed him up, then so be it. I’m through with the topic.

Exactly, and you are right about all that gator stuff.

Ronald wants us to think his child is with a gator, he even basically rationalizes it when talking to Cobra, saying, probably, thats where his daughter is. To me, it means shes not in that water and buried somewhere, hopefully.

jmo

 

[Snowbunny]

I don't believe for one minute that the Cummings/Croslins could live with themselves if they had thrown this poor child into the river/water for gaters to devour her. They would have nightmares for the rest of their lives if this were the case. We're not talking about animals but rather a child here. If this child passed away then you can bebt she is burried somewhere where nobody will find her. It wouldn't surprise me any if she has passed away that they may have talked someone into cremating her for them. If she were cremated then finding her will be almost impossible. They are not going to throw a loved one into the water for gators to chew on. For all we know she could be burried under someone's casket in the cemetary. Didn't Ron have a bubby that worked for the funeral home? Try to find a judge who would sign the orders to exume the caskets that were placed into the ground around that time...it won't happen. As a matter of fact, isn't the water table too high in FL for anyone to be burried in the ground down there so more than likely she could have been placed in a unmarked above ground vault of some sort and nobody would be the wiser? Just a thought!

 

[Elphaba]

I don't believe for one minute that the Cummings/Croslins could live with themselves if they had thrown this poor child into the river/water for gaters to devour her. They would have nightmares for the rest of their lives if this were the case. We're not talking about animals but rather a child here. If this child passed away then you can bebt she is burried somewhere where nobody will find her. It wouldn't surprise me any if she has passed away that they may have talked someone into cremating her for them. If she were cremated then finding her will be almost impossible. They are not going to throw a loved one into the water for gators to chew on. For all we know she could be burried under someone's casket in the cemetary. Didn't Ron have a bubby that worked for the funeral home? Try to find a judge who would sign the orders to exume the caskets that were placed into the ground around that time...it won't happen. As a matter of fact, isn't the water table too high in FL for anyone to be burried in the ground down there so more than likely she could have been placed in a unmarked above ground vault of some sort and nobody would be the wiser? Just a thought!

Never ever underestimate the cruelty of others...

 

[Emeralgem]

I don't believe for one minute that the Cummings/Croslins could live with themselves if they had thrown this poor child into the river/water for gaters to devour her. They would have nightmares for the rest of their lives if this were the case. We're not talking about animals but rather a child here. If this child passed away then you can bebt she is burried somewhere where nobody will find her. It wouldn't surprise me any if she has passed away that they may have talked someone into cremating her for them. If she were cremated then finding her will be almost impossible. They are not going to throw a loved one into the water for gators to chew on. For all we know she could be burried under someone's casket in the cemetary. Didn't Ron have a bubby that worked for the funeral home? Try to find a judge who would sign the orders to exume the caskets that were placed into the ground around that time...it won't happen. As a matter of fact, isn't the water table too high in FL for anyone to be burried in the ground down there so more than likely she could have been placed in a unmarked above ground vault of some sort and nobody would be the wiser? Just a thought!

BBM.. I too believe the Cummings Clan somehow by hook or crook found a way to have Haleigh cremated.
And the reason they don't have a problem with anyone thinking their granddaughter was fed to gators is because they ALL know that didn't happen...
To them its just a story.. And they have proven they don't care how gruesome or horrific the story is either.. just as long as the truth is never revealed...JMO

 

[MADJGNLAW]

For months now, I have posted link after link from leading Universities, Government Agencies, and even the Smithsonian Institute, all of which categorically state that the tale told by Mr. Cummings and crew can not possibly have happened due to the biological makeup of alligators in water temperatures less than 65–70 degrees F. I have posted information and links from NOAA, a government agency, clearly showing that the water temperature in the St Johns River was well below the biological mechanism dormancy trigger for alligators during every minute of every day of Joe Overstreet’s two week visit in February of 2009.

If some choose to believe this information meaningless because Ronald Cummings said so and a Tommy Coslin story backed him up, then so be it. I’m through with the topic.

Originally Posted by Concerned Papa
Good Morning once again Jessi. I share your pain in even discussing what could have happened to this beautiful little girl’s remains. While I understand the point of your comment that cold weather, and therefore alligator dormancy, doesn’t last forever, my usage of the descriptive metaphor “feeding frenzy” is a result of the following four conversations and statements from Ronald Cummings about events he said occurred, during what would have to be, early February, 2009.:

**************
Quote:
We were together months ago, not far from the pond, at another water’s edge in Satsuma… where marble sized eyes were visible popping out of the St. John’s River, and a dock not far from Ronald’s trailer, where Haleigh’s father lead us to take a look, months ago, noting the lazy cruising ground of the scaly predators, and their indiscrimanting appetite.

Ronald told me that he and Joe Overstreet, Misty’s Tennessee cousin, used to visit the very spot on the St. John’s river to fish, shoot the breeze, maybe drink a tall, cool one, and talk about life…and the appetite of Alligators. In fact, he said, in an exclusive chat with The Bald Truth months ago, that Joe talked about one of his favorite pastimes–watching alligators go to town on small animals or big ones that fell or got tossed in for their dining pleasure.
http://www.artharris.com/2009/09/19/...cummings-tips/
****************

Quote:

ron: ok, cuz that`s the same jr. hank jr. tommy… and joe were fishin` with austin, tommy`s son… at that dock… it got dark… that dock got swamped with alligators… he told me, he said holy ** s*** i had to get my son out of there i thought lake placid was fixin` to go on!

cobra: yep

ron: you know what?

cobra: yep?

ron: joe said the corridor would be the perfect **ing place to kill somebody…

cobra: bam

ron: dump them right in the water… let the alligators take care of the rest.

Quote:
ron: let me tell you this… did you know that gators… burrow?

cobra: yes.

ron: they make burrows?

cobra: i know exactly what gators do man, I`m from Miami!

ron: …and well th-th-they make burrows where there`s air pockets on top...

cobra: …and they`ll push that mud back in their house.

ron: and they will push their prey (cobra talk over) even if it was a…. thank you, thank you!

cobra: …i know brother, man, i am a hillbilly, bro… i`m 52 years old… i`ve been doin` this a couple days. (laugh)

ron: well, i`m half your age and you can see that i have…

ron: i have a lot more knowledge than most mf`n fools.

*****************

Each of these conversations involves a clear and direct allegation of alligators eating and "watching alligators go to town on small animals or big ones that fell or got tossed in for their dining pleasure" during what could only be early February, 2009, which was the 2 week period of Joe Overstreet's visit.

All reasonable information from alligator biological experts, and our own common sense, tells us that Ronald Cummings' stories are false. Couple that with the highly improbable scenario being presented of Ronald or Misty "finding" a gun allegedly "stole" and hidden by Cousin Joe, and I can only see a clear, intentional effort by Mr. Cummings to deflect attention from himself and, once again, misdirect the investigation into his daughter's disappearance.

The only relevant question for me is why would he do that, which only has one logical answer that I can see.

Thanks again Papa for all your hard work and research! :blowkiss:
I agree that this story about the gators just dosn't fit.

I would also like to know how Ron can go into such details as to what Joe was saying to Tommy if he was not there? Ron also claims he never questioned Misty about what what happen that night she went missing which I found odd...he later said that she told him the same thing she told LE and he was at work...but pretty much coached Misty into what to say in every interview and corrected her if she said something he didn't feel fit in her story...yet he was not there he claims.
I wish we knew what day it was that Tommy, Joe, and Tommy's son was at the dock fishing. I also would like to know when Joe told Ron the corridor would be the perfect **ing place to kill somebody… and wonder if Ron told LE the same details he told Cobra?

 

[MADJGNLAW]

:sleuth: Bumping this thread so I can find it later...still searching for one of Ron's conversations with Cobra regarding he gun. I don't know why I recall there being two. This case is so :crazy:

 

[suspicious1]

snipped for space>

ron: let me tell you what else i got man!

cobra: alright bro

ron: february the 10th like i said… that`s when my…

cobra: yes, that was the child support date. (sarcastic) alright now bro. i know. so you were scheduled to go to court and it got f`n put aside.

ron: it got put aside

cobra: ok? ok?

ron: still, how does it get put aside? that`s back child support… that ain`t today`s child support. that`s back child support.
cobra: well i dunno, probably a judge heard about it and said oh s*** he can`t come in today he got a lot on his mind! ya know? i don`t know.


(end)

Ok I was just re-reading the part that I bolded and WTH does it sound like Ron is pissed off because his court date was put to the side? I mean this is the day that his daughter has gone missing and he seemed more concerned with getting his back child support from Crystal than finding his daughter. What is all that about?

 

[SoSueMe]

Papa, I don't understand all this alligator stuff and personally, I'm going to defer to you as the expert on the subject here at WS. So, are the alligators dormant during the months in question? Would they be out and about and perhaps burrow something to eat later?

O/T: Geez, these creatures scare me. From the videos I've seen, they seem to move pretty fast and come on land - ACK.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Papa, I don't understand all this alligator stuff and personally, I'm going to defer to you as the expert on the subject here at WS. So, are the alligators dormant during the months in question? Would they be out and about and perhaps burrow something to eat later?

O/T: Geez, these creatures scare me. From the videos I've seen, they seem to move pretty fast and come on land - ACK.

Nooooo! I'm no expert on anything. Don't get me mixed up with Ronald! He's the one who said:

"I have a lot more knowledge than most mf`n fools."

In response to your questions, the best I can do is give you the words of true experts on alligators such as The Smithsonian Institute, The University of Florida, and The Florida Wildlife Commission.

(1) Are the alligators dormant during the months in question? Yes.

From The Smithsonian Institute's National Zoological Park:

One interesting aspect of alligator biology is that they undergo periods of dormancy when the weather is cold.

http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Animals/ReptilesAmphibians/Facts/FactSheets/Americanalligator.cfm

From The University of Florida:

Feeding activity is governed by water temperature, with foraging activity ceasing if the temperature drops below 20 to 23°C (68 to 73°F).

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/cnhc/csp_amis.htm

Please note in the chart below that not one minute of any day's temperature was ABOVE the biological dormancy trigger point during JO's visit:

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KSGJ/2009/2/9/DailyHistory.html

(2) Would they be out and about and perhaps burrow something to eat later?

No. Alligators "burrow" to stay warm during the cold temperatures, NOT to store food.

From The State of Florida Wildlife Commission:

Alligators are ectothermic -- they rely on external sources of heat to regulate their body temperature. They stop feeding when the ambient temperature drops below approximately 70° F (21° C). Alligators are dormant throughout much of the winter season. During this time, they can be found in burrows (or "dens") that they construct adjacent to an alligator hole or open water

http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/alligator_facts.htm

 

[1Chump]

Feeding activity is governed by water temperature, with foraging activity ceasing if the temperature drops below 20 to 23°C (68 to 73°F).

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/cnhc/csp_amis.htm

Water takes time to warm up. A day or two above 68°F "air temperature" is not going to make a dent in the water temp.

I would love to know approx what time of year that water warms up enough for the alligators to stop "hibernatiing" and start eating.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Feeding activity is governed by water temperature, with foraging activity ceasing if the temperature drops below 20 to 23°C (68 to 73°F).

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/cnhc/csp_amis.htm

Water takes time to warm up. A day or two above 68°F "air temperature" is not going to make a dent in the water temp.

I would love to know approx what time of year that water warms up enough for the alligators to stop "hibernatiing" and start eating.

BBM

IDK the normal time of year, but I pulled this up at NOAA on May 1st of this year and the water temp for the St Johns in Palatka was still below the trigger temp.

 

[annmarie62]

Good Morning Frog. Unless you can refer me to a weapon with a distinct lateral curve to the clip or magazine, I'm believing it's a sprayer of some sort with a hose attached.

I'm not erasing him out of the equation either, but it's going to take more than solely the words of documented lying drug addicts trying to get out of jail to convince me of his involvement.

Oh Lord... that's the funniest I've ever read, good job, "Papa"!! And I needed a laugh while on this particular thread...

 

[Whisperer]

Are the alligators swimming around in the river anyway, even if they aren't eating? My DD said she was boating in the water off Lousianna in February and said she saw alligators in the water there.


It had to be pretty darn cold in Satsuma in the early days because misty was dressed in a parka. That one video of her and TN with water in back of them made it seem like they were on a vessel near Alaska...I was shocked.

 

[SoSueMe]

Nooooo! I'm no expert on anything. Don't get me mixed up with Ronald! He's the one who said:



In response to your questions, the best I can do is give you the words of true experts on alligators such as The Smithsonian Institute, The University of Florida, and The Florida Wildlife Commission.

(1) Are the alligators dormant during the months in question? Yes.

From The Smithsonian Institute's National Zoological Park:



From The University of Florida:



Please note in the chart below that not one minute of any day's temperature was ABOVE the biological dormancy trigger point during JO's visit:



(2) Would they be out and about and perhaps burrow something to eat later?

No. Alligators "burrow" to stay warm during the cold temperatures, NOT to store food.
From The State of Florida Wildlife Commission:

[BBM]

Thanks once again for the information Papa. I thought Ron said that alligators will take something and burrow it, giving the impression that perhaps Haleigh had been burrowed.

Personally, I don't see how anyone could even entertain this idea so shortly after a child goes missing, but maybe I'm not smarter than most mf'n fools. LOL

 

[doobiedoo52]

Regarding RC being able to see Joe's girlfriend looking in the culvert when she came to get him on Feb 10th: I have consulted our resident local photographer Ger, and she kindly informed me that the tents where RC and family were set up were almost DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET from Tommy's house in a vacant lot. To me, this makes the scenerio of RC seeing the girlfriend there ENTIRELY possible. Thank you Ger for the information!

 

[Emeralgem]

Regarding RC being able to see Joe's girlfriend looking in the culvert when she came to get him on Feb 10th: I have consulted our resident local photographer Ger, and she kindly informed me that the tents where RC and family were set up were almost DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET from Tommy's house in a vacant lot. To me, this makes the scenerio of RC seeing the girlfriend there ENTIRELY possible. Thank you Ger for the information!

I'm somewhat confused as to what you are alluding to since it was Ron C, himself who told Cobra he hid the gun in the culvert and also retrieved the gun and wiped it clean...