Cobra: Tapes, Interviews & Case Discussion

[doobiedoo52]

Have you ever tried to tell a story to someone and then realize you have to tell them more than just the story itself to make sense--a little background or explanation? I think that's what happened here. RC is telling Cobra the story but not giving dates and Cobra doesn't even know some of the people's names and so it is confusing.

My take on the story is this: RC says Joe stole the gun on the 3rd day of his visit--around Jan 30th or so. Sometime in the next few days, RC realizes it's gone and either searches himself or sends MC to look for it. He suspects Joe. RC has already told Hank that he's pretty sure Joe stole it. Hank gets on Joe's case and Joe has to be moved out of Tommy's & over to Hank's to keep Joe & RC apart. RC or MC go to Tommy's house--I think SHE. MC and LinC start searching outside for the gun. They find nothing and she calls RC. By that time they are standing up by the road and she notices the board in the culvert--RC says look there. Voila! The missing gun. One of them retrieves it and brings it home. RC cleans it since it has been out in the elements for several days and then hides it.

So now he is even more sure Joe did it. Because of all the crap he has been getting from Hank, etc and is embarassed, he calls the girlfriend to come get him early. RC has
already found the gun & hidden it, but he never told anyone. So Joe & his girlfriend (who he told about stealing the gun) both think it's still in the culvert. In fact, when she shows up, they stop at Tom's to say goodbye and where does she head to? The culvert. This tells RC what he wanted to know--they're looking for the gun before they leave. Maybe Joe actually leaves for a day or 2 and then returns or else they discover the gun is gone and the girlfriend makes up some excuse to leave and he decides he will stay as he originally planned. Either way, I think all this happened before Hank's accident and not the days before Haleigh disappeared. When RC says he has business with Joe it's because they have an ongoing dispute and a bit of a cat and mouse game about what happened to that gun. They were each watching the other like hawks. JMO

 

[Concerned Papa]

Soooo, out of all the places on this earth that a dastardly gun thief could hide a gun, Ronald Cummings, through some process of logical deduction or possible physic revelation, is supposed to have found this gun under the ground, in a culvert, in a ditch, at his girlfriend’s brother’s house BEFORE the dastardly thief could even come back to get it?

Now that’s impressive.

Almost as impressive as alligators who defied all known biological symptoms for cold weather to swarm a dock and launch into feeding frenzies.

Way too deep for me to understand, LOL.

 

[twall]

Here is a response from Art to one of his readers about the surveillance video footage. The poster asked if there was a traffic camera at Buffalo Bluff Road.
I'm not saying his word is the gospel, it is what it is, read it and make your own conclusions just as we have been doing for the past 16 mos.!
Currently last comment at the link I posted.

Art Harris Says:
June 4th, 2010 at 11:32 pm
J–Have heard of, and passed the road, even driven down it, and never noticed the so called camera…If there was a traffic camera, that’s the first thing that LE would check, as they did in Atlanta after the 96 Olympic Park bombings. basic police work, and in this case, we know the checklist was done, my sources tell me: all vid taken from the convenience stores, including the one Ronald stopped at enroute from work at 315 am to buy a tall beer, peanuts and cigarettes, helping establish his alibi and timeline. Art

http://www.artharris.com/2010/05/28/exclusive-wrong-dock-searched-for-haleigh-body/#comments

 

[jessigirl]

Soooo, out of all the places on this earth that a dastardly gun thief could hide a gun, Ronald Cummings, through some process of logical deduction or possible physic revelation, is supposed to have found this gun under the ground, in a culvert, in a ditch, at his girlfriend’s brother’s house BEFORE the dastardly thief could even come back to get it?

Now that’s impressive.

Almost as impressive as alligators who defied all known biological symptoms for cold weather to swarm a dock and launch into feeding frenzies.

Way too deep for me to understand, LOL.

Above BBM. I agree that[gator feeding frenzy] would be a defiance of biological symptoms from the cold of early February. And I can only speak for myself when I say that it is my opinion that it was NOT NECESSARILY IMMEDIATE that the gators fed(And just putting those words on this screen breaks my heart&knots my stomach)but rather they had plenty of time. Since that dock&immediate surrounding area had not been searched. The gators had a full season of eating and it could have occurred any time btwn 2-9-09~4-2010. They would not have to come to the surface, rather on the rivers bottom due to the rope and cinder blocks(which would have kept her from being discovered as an unrestrained body would surface, at some point). But of course this is just my opinion. Just wanted to put out a plausible scenario of the gators involvement and that it didn't necessarily happen under "outrageous" circumstances(as I do agree would be outrageous for the scenario BBM)

 

[Emeralgem]

When I first heard the story about the gators I thought OK thats where Ronald Cummings or someone in his family put her...so she would never be found..Then I realized several months later his mother and his grandmother would have never allowed that to take place..IMHO the gator story Ron told Cobra is just another Red Herring thrown out to deflect from the truth....Rest assured though Ron and his family knew they had to dispose of her remains in a way the cause of death could never be revealed..And since they couldn't risk her remains ever being located I can only think of two ways her remains could have been disposed of...And neither of them are what Ronald Cummings attempted to persuade Cobra on those tapes to believe concerning Haleigh and the gators....JMO

 

[Concerned Papa]

Above BBM. I agree that[gator feeding frenzy] would be a defiance of biological symptoms from the cold of early February. And I can only speak for myself when I say that it is my opinion that it was NOT NECESSARILY IMMEDIATE that the gators fed(And just putting those words on this screen breaks my heart&knots my stomach)but rather they had plenty of time. Since that dock&immediate surrounding area had not been searched. The gators had a full season of eating and it could have occurred any time btwn 2-9-09~4-2010. They would not have to come to the surface, rather on the rivers bottom due to the rope and cinder blocks(which would have kept her from being discovered as an unrestrained body would surface, at some point). But of course this is just my opinion. Just wanted to put out a plausible scenario of the gators involvement and that it didn't necessarily happen under "outrageous" circumstances(as I do agree would be outrageous for the scenario BBM)

Good Morning once again Jessi. I share your pain in even discussing what could have happened to this beautiful little girl’s remains. While I understand the point of your comment that cold weather, and therefore alligator dormancy, doesn’t last forever, my usage of the descriptive metaphor “feeding frenzy” is a result of the following four conversations and statements from Ronald Cummings about events he said occurred, during what would have to be, early February, 2009.:

We were together months ago, not far from the pond, at another water’s edge in Satsuma… where marble sized eyes were visible popping out of the St. John’s River, and a dock not far from Ronald’s trailer, where Haleigh’s father lead us to take a look, months ago, noting the lazy cruising ground of the scaly predators, and their indiscrimanting appetite.

Ronald told me that he and Joe Overstreet, Misty’s Tennessee cousin, used to visit the very spot on the St. John’s river to fish, shoot the breeze, maybe drink a tall, cool one, and talk about life…and the appetite of Alligators. In fact, he said, in an exclusive chat with The Bald Truth months ago, that Joe talked about one of his favorite pastimes–watching alligators go to town on small animals or big ones that fell or got tossed in for their dining pleasure.

http://www.artharris.com/2009/09/19/putnam-county-pond-search-tied-to-haleigh-cummings-tips/

ron: ok, cuz that`s the same jr. hank jr. tommy… and joe were fishin` with austin, tommy`s son… at that dock… it got dark… that dock got swamped with alligators… he told me, he said holy ** s*** i had to get my son out of there i thought lake placid was fixin` to go on!

cobra: yep

ron: you know what?

cobra: yep?

ron: joe said the corridor would be the perfect **ing place to kill somebody…

cobra: bam

ron: dump them right in the water… let the alligators take care of the rest.

ron: let me tell you this… did you know that gators… burrow?

cobra: yes.

ron: they make burrows?

cobra: i know exactly what gators do man, I`m from Miami!

ron: …and well th-th-they make burrows where there`s air pockets on top...

cobra: …and they`ll push that mud back in their house.

ron: and they will push their prey (cobra talk over) even if it was a…. thank you, thank you!

cobra: …i know brother, man, i am a hillbilly, bro… i`m 52 years old… i`ve been doin` this a couple days. (laugh)

ron: well, i`m half your age and you can see that i have…

ron: i have a lot more knowledge than most mf`n fools.

Each of these conversations involves a clear and direct allegation of alligators eating and "watching alligators go to town on small animals or big ones that fell or got tossed in for their dining pleasure" during what could only be early February, 2009, which was the 2 week period of Joe Overstreet's visit.

All reasonable information from alligator biological experts, and our own common sense, tells us that Ronald Cummings' stories are false. Couple that with the highly improbable scenario being presented of Ronald or Misty "finding" a gun allegedly "stole" and hidden by Cousin Joe, and I can only see a clear, intentional effort by Mr. Cummings to deflect attention from himself and, once again, misdirect the investigation into his daughter's disappearance.

The only relevant question for me is why would he do that, which only has one logical answer that I can see.

 

[SoSueMe]

I don't know how many times I've read "it's difficult to write" or "it pains me to write this about Haleigh" when referring to Haleigh being murdered or thrown to the alligators. Yet, here is the father in the Cobra tapes talking about an alligator burrowing his missing child and he doesn't seem to even wince. It's truly baffling.

 

[doobiedoo52]

Soooo, out of all the places on this earth that a dastardly gun thief could hide a gun, Ronald Cummings, through some process of logical deduction or possible physic revelation, is supposed to have found this gun under the ground, in a culvert, in a ditch, at his girlfriend’s brother’s house BEFORE the dastardly thief could even come back to get it?

Now that’s impressive.

Almost as impressive as alligators who defied all known biological symptoms for cold weather to swarm a dock and launch into feeding frenzies.

Way too deep for me to understand, LOL.

Well, Papa, I know we disagree on this, but I just don't find it that impressive. For one thing, we have no idea how long Misty & Lindsy searched the yard and T & L's house for the gun before she called Ron. Since we aren't privy to that information, I am withholding judgement. I don't recall reading anywhere that she specifically headed right for the culvert. And if that is all a lie and he found it--again we have nothing saying he didn't search the yard quite awhile before narrowing it down. I know that none of these people's statements can be trusted, but I just don't think this particular handgun had anything to do with Haleigh. JMO

 

[debs]

Well, Papa, I know we disagree on this, but I just don't find it that impressive. For one thing, we have no idea how long Misty & Lindsy searched the yard and T & L's house for the gun before she called Ron. Since we aren't privy to that information, I am withholding judgement. I don't recall reading anywhere that she specifically headed right for the culvert. And if that is all a lie and he found it--again we have nothing saying he didn't search the yard quite awhile before narrowing it down. I know that none of these people's statements can be trusted, but I just don't think this particular handgun had anything to do with Haleigh. JMO

"I was on the phone with Ron and he told me to look in the culbert (sic) and what do you know, there it was, right where he said it was."

Until that's explained, I don't rule it out as a cause of Haleigh's demise.

 

[seeking truth]

Listening to Ron and his convoluted story; his seeming pride in hiding a gun he claims was stolen, the chaos that sounds like ensued, and his disturbing lack of conscience in excitedly describing what he would do to JO hand's causes me to realize that Ron Cummings has confirmed, in his own words, what I originally sensed and have felt about him.

This guy is low. He is a serious game-player, a conniving, lying, truly destructive human being. ~ to everyone who comes in contact with him.

I don't believe for a minute that ANYONE stole Ronald Cummings' gun. He was playing a game, maybe just for his own sick amusement or to set someone up for god knows what. Whether or not the gun (any gun) has anything to do with HaLeigh's death, I do not believe any account Ron Cummings would tell concerning ANYTHING.

MY OPINIONS

 

[bessie]

When Cobra asked Ron about Jo hurting his kid, Ron replies that Jo had business with him...IMO, Ron is telling Cobra that him and Jo were in cohoots at some point during the visit..Maybe drugs were "their business".

I have to disagree, Suspicious. Ron didn't mean that he and Joe were partners in enterprise. He referrred to business of another kind.

cobra: what do you think about joe, bro? joe would hurt your kid, right?

ron: joe, had business with me… because, heres`s the thing…

To say that one "has business" with another individual means that the speaker feels the other person has wronged him In this instance, Ron tells Cobra that Joe felt he had been
"wronged" by Ron.

Ron goes on to say: because, heres`s the thing…

He is suggesting to Cobra that said "business" provided motivation for Joe to hurt Haleigh as an act of vengance against Ron. He relays the gun story and the argument with Hank, Sr. and Joe to make his case.

There was obviously an altercation between Ron and Joe about the gun. Several of the Croslins mentioned it, including Misty. Hank, Sr. talks about an event that occurred at his house in a conversation with Tommy. Cobra says Lisa told him Joe "swore vengeance on Ron's a$$". The only one who denied it was Ron. And that is the real significance of this tale he tells Cobra. Why did Ron deny the fight in the beginning, then make such a big deal of it with Cobra? Because he knew Joe didn't kill Haleigh, and the gun issue was a non-issue. He didn't tell LE because he knew it wouldn't fly with them. They questioned Joe because of what others said, but in the end, nothing. Joe's a free man. But Cobra's not LE. Ron wanted to deflect, redirect Cobra's attention, and the gun story, if told right, could tie him up for a long time.

Throughout this entire conversation with Cobra, Ron makes statements to throw Cobra off the track. The alligator BS is a good example. He tells Cobra to "go get Joe", gives him his address. Why? By this time, Joe had been interviewed two or three times by LE. It's baloney. Ron did not want Cobra poking around and digging up dirt. Period. And let's not forget TN's romp through the woods with Cobra.

To keep the picture clear, however, we have to keep in mind that Cobra was hired by Crystal's attorney, KP. KP's mission was not to find Haleigh, but to deal with the custody issue. That in itself gave the Cummings reason to distrust Cobra and send him packing.

 

[Whisperer]

Was this gun found AFTER Haleigh disappeared? I think it was. I say rc put it there or had Tommy hide it there (for safekeeping) before 911 was called. He told LE he had a 9mm berreta in the house. They may have gone looking for it and couldn't find it.

Later, LE insisted on having it and he made up the gun story and told them JO must have stolen it. He went to the spot or sent misty and played a game pretending to have her search for a "stolen" gun and miraculously found it...

Even the dumbest of criminals would not steal a gun and hide it on the owner's family property.

 

[dodie20]

Was this gun found AFTER Haleigh disappeared? I think it was. I say rc put it there or had Tommy hide it there (for safekeeping) before 911 was called. He told LE he had a 9mm berreta in the house. They may have gone looking for it and couldn't find it.

Later, LE insisted on having it and he made up the gun story and told them JO must have stolen it. He went to the spot or sent misty and played a game pretending to have her search for a "stolen" gun and miraculously found it...

Even the dumbest of criminals would not steal a gun and hide it on the owner's family property.

but would Joe have considered Tommy, Ron's family? I think, (but don't know), that Tommy & Joe were pretty tight. Joe had to have felt close to somebody, because he'd made that long trip to see them, & then stayed for quite awhile. But when he got there, he may have found that their loyalties weren't as strong as he thought? I'm kind of confused about why Joe was even there. He was young...did he have a job? & where did he get the money for travel expenses & an extended stay? I get the feeling that he had a purpose, besides just visiting, for beingthere.

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.artharris.com/2009/09/19/putnam-county-pond-search-tied-to-haleigh-cummings-tips/

Ronald told me that he and Joe Overstreet, Misty’s Tennessee cousin, used to visit the very spot on the St. John’s river to fish, shoot the breeze, maybe drink a tall, cool one, and talk about life…and the appetite of Alligators. In fact, he said, in an exclusive chat with The Bald Truth months ago, that Joe talked about one of his favorite pastimes–watching alligators go to town on small animals or big ones that fell or got tossed in for their dining pleasure.

What kind of a carp story is this? It reads like they're old friends but supposedly Joe stole RC's gun the first time they met and they had a fight and a tense relationship ever since, so when exactly was it that they amicably "used to" fish, shoot the breeze and talk about life?

 

[1Chump]

Good Morning once again Jessi. I share your pain in even discussing what could have happened to this beautiful little girl’s remains. While I understand the point of your comment that cold weather, and therefore alligator dormancy, doesn’t last forever, my usage of the descriptive metaphor “feeding frenzy” is a result of the following four conversations and statements from Ronald Cummings about events he said occurred, during what would have to be, early February, 2009.:

**************
Quote:
We were together months ago, not far from the pond, at another water’s edge in Satsuma… where marble sized eyes were visible popping out of the St. John’s River, and a dock not far from Ronald’s trailer, where Haleigh’s father lead us to take a look, months ago, noting the lazy cruising ground of the scaly predators, and their indiscrimanting appetite.

Ronald told me that he and Joe Overstreet, Misty’s Tennessee cousin, used to visit the very spot on the St. John’s river to fish, shoot the breeze, maybe drink a tall, cool one, and talk about life…and the appetite of Alligators. In fact, he said, in an exclusive chat with The Bald Truth months ago, that Joe talked about one of his favorite pastimes–watching alligators go to town on small animals or big ones that fell or got tossed in for their dining pleasure.
http://www.artharris.com/2009/09/19/...cummings-tips/
****************

Quote:

ron: ok, cuz that`s the same jr. hank jr. tommy… and joe were fishin` with austin, tommy`s son… at that dock… it got dark… that dock got swamped with alligators… he told me, he said holy ** s*** i had to get my son out of there i thought lake placid was fixin` to go on!

cobra: yep

ron: you know what?

cobra: yep?

ron: joe said the corridor would be the perfect **ing place to kill somebody…

cobra: bam

ron: dump them right in the water… let the alligators take care of the rest.

Quote:
ron: let me tell you this… did you know that gators… burrow?

cobra: yes.

ron: they make burrows?

cobra: i know exactly what gators do man, I`m from Miami!

ron: …and well th-th-they make burrows where there`s air pockets on top...

cobra: …and they`ll push that mud back in their house.

ron: and they will push their prey (cobra talk over) even if it was a…. thank you, thank you!

cobra: …i know brother, man, i am a hillbilly, bro… i`m 52 years old… i`ve been doin` this a couple days. (laugh)

ron: well, i`m half your age and you can see that i have…

ron: i have a lot more knowledge than most mf`n fools.

*****************

Each of these conversations involves a clear and direct allegation of alligators eating and "watching alligators go to town on small animals or big ones that fell or got tossed in for their dining pleasure" during what could only be early February, 2009, which was the 2 week period of Joe Overstreet's visit.

All reasonable information from alligator biological experts, and our own common sense, tells us that Ronald Cummings' stories are false. Couple that with the highly improbable scenario being presented of Ronald or Misty "finding" a gun allegedly "stole" and hidden by Cousin Joe, and I can only see a clear, intentional effort by Mr. Cummings to deflect attention from himself and, once again, misdirect the investigation into his daughter's disappearance.

The only relevant question for me is why would he do that, which only has one logical answer that I can see.

The problems with lies is you have to remember your lies.

Ron told Art that Ron/Joe were fishing and Joe told him.

Ron took himself out of Cobra's story.

Ron told Cobra that he wanted to crush Joe's hands.

Ron told Art on the record that Joe and him were fishing buddies, shooting the breeze, drinking tall ones, and talk about life.

IMO, Ron has two sides. The public Ronald Cummings who tries to be the good guy. Then real Ronald Cummings that comes out in private. The monster who tells Cobra that his daughter may have been ate by alligators without any emotion but wants to crush hands over a stolen gun.

 

[dodie20]

What kind of a carp story is this? It reads like they're old friends but supposedly Joe stole RC's gun the first time they met and they had a fight and a tense relationship ever since, so when exactly was it that they amicably "used to" fish, shoot the breeze and talk about life?

exactly. that's a huge inconsistency in Ron's story...but we're supposed to believe that Joe held a big enough grudge to kill Haleigh?

 

[Concerned Papa]

exactly. that's a huge inconsistency in Ron's story...but we're supposed to believe that Joe held a big enough grudge to kill Haleigh?

On April 14, 2010 Shawn Sirgo, Joe Overstreet’s attorney, said "I've known Joseph for 3 years. And I believe in him. He's a neat guy and he has a lot of integrity. And if I didn't think that he was the right person, I wouldn't be here right now".

These are not the words of an attorney passing along his client’s version of the facts, but rather his own opinion and statement of fact. The American Bar Association’s Model Rules of Professional Conduct states that a lawyer “shall not knowingly make a false statement of material fact.” In other words, lawyers aren’t supposed to lie--and they can be disciplined or even disbarred for doing so.

In this particular instance, Shawn Sirgo is also a man of faith who holds an undergraduate degree in Pastoral Ministry from New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary. His biography from his law firm’s website mentions his Christian beliefs having laid a foundation to build his legal practice.

In the absence of any facts to the contrary, I believe we are faced with a simple choice. We can believe a man like Shawn Sirgo when he says the facts prove his client’s innocence, OR we can believe a man like Ronald Cummings with his incarcerated supporting cast and the highly improbable and outright false tales contained in the Cobra tapes.

That’s an easy choice for me to make.

 

[bessie]

For awhile, my interest in solving the riddle of what happened to Haleigh caused me to get so caught up in the who, what and where of this conversation that I lost sight of the bigger picture. The truth is, there is little we can deduce from this tape that will solve that riddle. We simply do not know which of Ron's statements are accurate. And it's been clearly established that at least a few are inaccurate.

If there are any revelations to be gleaned from the tape, they are not in what was said, rather why it was said.

Why did this conversation even take place? Why did Cobra contact Ron? What were his motivations? How did he intend to use the information he received from Ron?

Why did Ron talk to Cobra? Why did he say these things about Joe? Obviously, to convince Cobra that Joe was the culprit. But, why was it important to Ron that Cobra believe that? What did he hope to accomplish? In which way did he intend to influence Cobra's actions?

If we consider those questions, we still won't know what happened to Haleigh, but we will have a better understanding of the rationale behind the actions that ensued after her disappearance. Might help to clear up some of that muddy water.

 

[dodie20]

For awhile, my interest in solving the riddle of what happened to Haleigh caused me to get so caught up in the who, what and where of this conversation that I lost sight of the bigger picture. The truth is, there is little we can deduce from this tape that will solve that riddle. We simply do not know which of Ron's statements are accurate. And it's been clearly established that at least a few are inaccurate.

If there are any revelations to be gleaned from the tape, they are not in what was said, rather why it was said.

Why did this conversation even take place? Why did Cobra contact Ron? What were his motivations? How did he intend to use the information he received from Ron?

Why did Ron talk to Cobra? Why did he say these things about Joe? Obviously, to convince Cobra that Joe was the culprit. But, why was it important to Ron that Cobra believe that? What did he hope to accomplish? In which way did he intend to influence Cobra's actions?

If we consider those questions, we still won't know what happened to Haleigh, but we will have a better understanding of the rationale behind the actions that ensued after her disappearance. Might help to clear up some of that muddy water.

well, my guess would be to take suspicion off of either himself or Misty. I do remember in some Cobra tape, where he was very suspicious of Misty, but honestly, I don't know why, or if he had any valid information to base that on. It may have been a gut reaction, & I don't think I'd trust his gut. It seems that if he did have some valid info, he would've come forward with it, by now.

 

[suspicious1]

I have to disagree, Suspicious. Ron didn't mean that he and Joe were partners in enterprise. He referrred to business of another kind.

cobra: what do you think about joe, bro? joe would hurt your kid, right?

ron: joe, had business with me… because, heres`s the thing…

To say that one "has business" with another individual means that the speaker feels the other person has wronged him In this instance, Ron tells Cobra that Joe felt he had been
"wronged" by Ron.

Ron goes on to say: because, heres`s the thing…

He is suggesting to Cobra that said "business" provided motivation for Joe to hurt Haleigh as an act of vengance against Ron. He relays the gun story and the argument with Hank, Sr. and Joe to make his case.

There was obviously an altercation between Ron and Joe about the gun. Several of the Croslins mentioned it, including Misty. Hank, Sr. talks about an event that occurred at his house in a conversation with Tommy. Cobra says Lisa told him Joe "swore vengeance on Ron's a$$". The only one who denied it was Ron. And that is the real significance of this tale he tells Cobra. Why did Ron deny the fight in the beginning, then make such a big deal of it with Cobra? Because he knew Joe didn't kill Haleigh, and the gun issue was a non-issue. He didn't tell LE because he knew it wouldn't fly with them. They questioned Joe because of what others said, but in the end, nothing. Joe's a free man. But Cobra's not LE. Ron wanted to deflect, redirect Cobra's attention, and the gun story, if told right, could tie him up for a long time.

Bessie, when dealing with dope dealers and drug users, when a person says that they had business with someone...that means just that....they had business and IMO it had something to do with drugs. Maybe Ron had a drug connect for Jo....IDK. We know Ron likes to play the middleman...between the buyer and seller...Maybe Jo was the buyer..IDK. After Ron states "they had business", he then says "but here's the thing". IMO, that was Ron way of avoiding what the "business" was and jumping straight to the fact that there was now a problem between him and JO. Ron is a slick character and he caught himself once again. IMO, Ron is suggesting that the "business" led to fall out between him and JO, and ultimately what happened to Haleigh. JMO though

but would Joe have considered Tommy, Ron's family? I think, (but don't know), that Tommy & Joe were pretty tight. Joe had to have felt close to somebody, because he'd made that long trip to see them, & then stayed for quite awhile. But when he got there, he may have found that their loyalties weren't as strong as he thought? I'm kind of confused about why Joe was even there. He was young...did he have a job? & where did he get the money for travel expenses & an extended stay? I get the feeling that he had a purpose, besides just visiting, for beingthere.

BBM
I agree. I'm starting to think that Jo trip had nothing to do with a family reunion with the Croslins. They just provided shelter for him while he was there. When Ron says that him and Jo had business...maybe this was the real reason for the trip.:waitasec:

What kind of a carp story is this? It reads like they're old friends but supposedly Joe stole RC's gun the first time they met and they had a fight and a tense relationship ever since, so when exactly was it that they amicably "used to" fish, shoot the breeze and talk about life?

Right. I would like to know that too. IMO, Ron and Jo were cool with each other for sometime during Jo's visit. I don't believe that the first day Ron met Jo, there was a problem. I really don't think there was a problem until shortly before Haleigh went "missing". Ron tried to down play it, at first, claiming since Him and Jo fell out the first day-people wouldn't know there was any kind of connection betwen them two. Ron was trying to distance himself from JO. So he claims the first time he met Jo, there was an issue, but he denies the fight. WHY? You would think that if he admitted to the issue that he would admit to the fight, I mean, if he really wanted to give a motive for Jo harming Haleigh. But Ron didn't take that route. Even when Ron is talking to Cobra, he is admitting to the issue but not directly saying there was a fight. He mentions to Cobra, that he tells, probably Tommy, that he's not going to hit Jo...he just wanted to crush his hand with "this" m***** jack. So I'm thinking, at some point, Ron, Hank, and Jo were in the same place at the same time, and there was an altercation, in which Ron had a jack.

The problems with lies is you have to remember your lies.

Ron told Art that Ron/Joe were fishing and Joe told him.

Ron took himself out of Cobra's story.

Ron told Cobra that he wanted to crush Joe's hands.

Ron told Art on the record that Joe and him were fishing buddies, shooting the breeze, drinking tall ones, and talk about life.

IMO, Ron has two sides. The public Ronald Cummings who tries to be the good guy. Then real Ronald Cummings that comes out in private. The monster who tells Cobra that his daughter may have been ate by alligators without any emotion but wants to crush hands over a stolen gun.

Absolutely.