Coincidences

[DeeDee249]

I know the McReynolds were checked out and gave hair and saliva samples. As far as LE were concerned, they were cleared. But I do feel LE could have widened their circles a bit, including family members of suspects. Certainly, any adult son who had done prison time and was known to be in Boulder that night could have been investigated.
There ARE some things that bother me about this family, the same things Madeline mentioned. I like to say there are no coincidences. But sometimes maybe there are.
To tell you the truth, I have a hard time wrapping my brain around the thought process of ANYONE who writes a novel about the brutal torture and murder of a young girl. This is especially true of a woman, a mother herself of a daughter (and one who was abducted to boot). I mean, where does that come from? What kind of audience are you writing for? Misogynist killers and child molesters? I don't think I could pull something like that out if the darkest recesses of my soul.

 

[BBB167893]

IMO, the Boulder PD could have done a much better job of it. I think they immediately zoomed in on the Ramseys and paid little attention to anyone else. I'd say the reason for that is 70% because of the way the Ramseys acted after her abduction and 30% unskilled police work.

Sounds fair.

If you were going to write a book on the worst way to handle an investigation of your daughters death the Ramsey case would be your prime example.

The new DA fell hook, line and sinker for JMK when 20 minutes of simple investigating would have proven he couldn't be the killer.

I guess it depends on what the DA was trying to do, Dan. Was the arrest of JMK a legitimate attempt to find a killer? Or to do something else?

 

[BBB167893]

Do you believe that the McReynolds were checked out thoroughly?

Yes. If not by the police, then by the DA's office, since they were the DA's designated suspects from Day One.

 

[BBB167893]

I gotta admit if even half of that stuff is true in Murri's post that it almost seems that it must 100% be related to this crime at least in some way.

By that measurement, I'd hate to think where that puts the Rs!

 

[MurriFlower]

I gotta admit if even half of that stuff is true in Murri's post that it almost seems that it must 100% be related to this crime at least in some way.

Roy, I can only go on what I read, so can't really confirm how much of it is true. But I've been doing a bit of research and there are some REALLY WEIRD things about this family, that people have looked at on line in the past.

There is a story that "Santa Bill" owned a harp (is this an angel's harp?) that he carved names of dead children into. Apparently he had another young friend who was also murdered! JBRs name was also on the harp.

Now is that a coincidence or what??

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Roy, I can only go on what I read, so can't really confirm how much of it is true. But I've been doing a bit of research and there are some REALLY WEIRD things about this family, that people have looked at on line in the past.

There is a story that "Santa Bill" owned a harp (is this an angel's harp?) that he carved names of dead children into. Apparently he had another young friend who was also murdered! JBRs name was also on the harp.

Now is that a coincidence or what??

The DA seemed pretty convinced that the DNA and handwriting probably belongs to a person or persons who aren't family members and aren't among the 200 or more people interviewed/sampled/tested.

At this point I rather doubt anyone is going down for this crime if they match neither the handwriting, linguistics, or DNA.

Besides, an airtight alibi for Dec 25 is simply not a problem for most people.

 

[MurriFlower]

The DA seemed pretty convinced that the DNA and handwriting probably belongs to a person or persons who aren't family members and aren't among the 200 or more people interviewed/sampled/tested.

At this point I rather doubt anyone is going down for this crime if they match neither the handwriting, linguistics, or DNA.

Besides, an airtight alibi for Dec 25 is simply not a problem for most people.

Perhaps, but the thread was to explore coincidences HOTYH. You're welcome to list any that relate to your theory.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Perhaps, but the thread was to explore coincidences HOTYH. You're welcome to list any that relate to your theory.

I did but it was more 'ignored' than 'explored'. LOL.

 

[MurriFlower]

I did but it was more 'ignored' than 'explored'. LOL.

Yep, I know it's hard to keep on topic. Say it again please.

 

[MurriFlower]

Now, here's another coincidence. It appears from the quote below that LHP knew McSanta. Doesn't that seem odd for the housekeeper to be so familiar with someone who was only supposed to have been at the house 3-4 times?

Linda Hoffmann-Pugh: “There’s no doubt in my mind that these false accusations hastened Bill’s death. He had a weak heart to begin with and that kind of endless stress didn’t help.”

 

[DeeDee249]

Now, here's another coincidence. It appears from the quote below that LHP knew McSanta. Doesn't that seem odd for the housekeeper to be so familiar with someone who was only supposed to have been at the house 3-4 times?

Linda Hoffmann-Pugh: “There’s no doubt in my mind that these false accusations hastened Bill’s death. He had a weak heart to begin with and that kind of endless stress didn’t help.”

I don't think it odd at all. LHP was in the R home three days a week. She and Patsy were on very familiar terms. I would expect that involved conversations about people Patsy knew, regardless of whether LHP also knew them well. LHP would be expected to know who Bill McReynolds was. I'd expect she would have also heard about his recent heart surgery from Patsy (as to whether he was up to playing Santa that year, etc.)
I don't know Bill McReynolds at all- yet I know about it, too. So does most of us. When he was a suspect, and he was asked to give samples to LE (which he did), LE was also aware of his physical condition, and actually that was one of the reasons they ruled him out. LHP could have been aware of it that way, too. He'd never have been able to lift that window grate and squeeze in that small window well either, being a "Santa-sized" man. (not that anyone actually did that anyway- spiders in December and all...)
Just because she knew ABOUT him doesn't mean she KNEW him well. We know about him, too.

 

[MurriFlower]

I don't think it odd at all. LHP was in the R home three days a week. She and Patsy were on very familiar terms. I would expect that involved conversations about people Patsy knew, regardless of whether LHP also knew them well. LHP would be expected to know who Bill McReynolds was. I'd expect she would have also heard about his recent heart surgery from Patsy (as to whether he was up to playing Santa that year, etc.)
I don't know Bill McReynolds at all- yet I know about it, too. So does most of us. When he was a suspect, and he was asked to give samples to LE (which he did), LE was also aware of his physical condition, and actually that was one of the reasons they ruled him out. LHP could have been aware of it that way, too. He'd never have been able to lift that window grate and squeeze in that small window well either, being a "Santa-sized" man. (not that anyone actually did that anyway- spiders in December and all...)
Just because she knew ABOUT him doesn't mean she KNEW him well. We know about him, too.

She would probably have known who he was, but to refer to him as "Bill" rather than Santa Bill or Mr McReynolds infers a closer association than just third hand via PR! My understanding is that she would have only met him once (Christmas 1996) at the Rs when she was invited to stay with her daughter for the party.

You will recall that PR DID NOT decide to have a Christmas Party that year, but McSanta ASKED her to on account of a TV documentary he was 'starring' in. As it turned out, the crew lost interest before PR's party, apparently - (it has never been confirmed if it was actually true about the doco or if it was a ruse for him to get back into the house).

His physical condition was so 'frail' that he and his wife left shortly after JBRs murder for a months holiday in Spain!

I also suspect that if LHP knew as much about McSanta as we do now, following JBRs murder, then this indicates a much closer association than we are aware of from information available.

There are other incidents that don't add up with this man as well.

 

[DeeDee249]

What would she be supposed to call him? If I knew someone, even casually I'd refer to them by their first name, too. If it were me, I would probably not refer to him as Santa or even Santa Bill and certainly not Mr. McReynolds. I'd say BILL, if the people I were speaking to would know who I meant.
I still don't see what the point is that you are trying to make. A LHP/Santa conspiricy?

 

[MurriFlower]

What would she be supposed to call him? If I knew someone, even casually I'd refer to them by their first name, too. If it were me, I would probably not refer to him as Santa or even Santa Bill and certainly not Mr. McReynolds. I'd say BILL, if the people I were speaking to would know who I meant.
I still don't see what the point is that you are trying to make. A LHP/Santa conspiricy?

This tread is to remark on coincidences. The fact that LHP make any comment at all about a connection between "Bill's" weak heart and the crime committed in the house in which she worked, (and in which they were both prime suspects), strikes me as a possible link between the two, and as such, a coincidence worth remarking on.

 

[MurriFlower]

On 23 December 1996 at 6.48pm a 911 call was made from the Rs house.

This was the time that the Christmas Party was just winding up.

What was the reason for the call? To see how long it took the Police to respond? Was the killer/accomplice the person who made the call? Now which of the house guests or residents made that call??

Here's the list of people present.

John and Patsy Ramsey, Burke (9), JonBenét (6)
Don Paugh (Patsy's father)
Fleet and Priscilla White, daughter Daphne (5-6), son Fleet (7-8)
Mr. & Mrs. R.A. Brown (Priscilla's parents)
Cliff Gaston, boyfriend of Priscilla's sister, Allison Shoeny (attended alone, without his
girlfriend) Visiting the Whites - from California
Bill Cox, husband of Priscilla's niece Heather. (attended alone, without his wife) Visiting the Whites - from California
John and Barbara Fernie, son (10), daughter (14-15?)
Friend of the Fernies - male (about 9)
Glen and Susan Stine, son Doug (9)
Susan Stine's mother
Glen Stine's mother
Larry and Pinkie Barber, two daughters (8 and 6)
Joe and Betty Barnhill
The Barnhill's boarder, Glenn Meyer, was not invited. He went to the house to tell the Barnhills something about the dog barking and was invited to join the party. He did for a short time.
Linda Hoffmann-Pugh, her daughter, Ariana (12)
Bill and Janet McReynolds (Santa)

 

[MurriFlower]

Coincidences.

There was a flashlight in the kitchen that 'resembles' the one owned by the R's, which JAR bought for his father. JR said it looked like his, but was 'dirty'. Presumably his was 'clean', which means this flashlight had been used frequently/recently whereas his had been residing in the drawer. This was the same type of flashlight that BPD used and there was some debate as to whether it had actually been left there by one of the Cops.

The High-Tech boot print in the wine cellar was the same brand as belonged to BR, but presumably in an adult size. No adult R owned such boots. This is the same brand as issued to BPD.

The RN contains quotes from 'cop/crime' movies. It has military/para-military sounding phrases. It states that the writer is familiar with 'law enforcement countermeasures'.

There was a suggestion that a stun gun was used on JBR. Did BPD use stun guns at that time and what type/brand were they?

The 'abrasion' on JBR's neck resembles the shape of a hand gun (maybe a Glock)

The 'head bash' on JBR resembles the butt of a hand gun (Glock?)

BPD had Glock's as standard issue.

Investigation of the killing by BPD caused evidence to be compromised.

Despite having no evidence at all (except a 'look') BPD decided either JR, PR or both, or anyone else living in the house was the killer. They then set out to prove this theory.

The BPD seemed to actually resist too close a scrutiny of their investigation by FBI, DA or the victim's family, while certain of it's members were 'leaking' evidence implicating the Rs.

Coincidences??

 

[madeleine]

Why was JB killed on X-mas night,I don't think this is a coincidence.

 

[MurriFlower]

Why was JB killed on X-mas night,I don't think this is a coincidence.

I think you are right there. I also feel as if the 23 December was a significant date as well. What else happened that day in the R's household, Boulder/USA and the rest of the world that day?

 

[madeleine]

I think you are right there. I also feel as if the 23 December was a significant date as well.

Me too but this would mean that there are more people knowing something.Who answered the door when the officer arrived?S.Stine?Did FW see/do something and called 911 but then changed his mind and hung up?

 

[madeleine]

Two parties,two misterious events,coincidence?Same people present who ended up being on the suspect list.Coincidence?