Coincidences

[MurriFlower]

I think the article points out some other very interesting "coincidences" involving Helgoth.
He claimed him and his partner would each make $60000 soon and the RN asked for $118000 ,he wanted to "crush someone's skull" and JB's skull was crushed,he committed suicide or was killed shortly after JB was murdered.
What if JR offered Helgoth and his partner $118000 to"off" someone and then did not follow through? Enraged about this Helgoth and the partner (who left the unknown DNA ) killed JB. JR knew exactly what was behind JB's murder and had Helgoth and possibly the unknown guy killed....that would explain the R's strange behavior.
The only thing is IMO a woman wrote the RN ( lengths,handwriting,content) and a woman redressed,cleaned and wrapped JB in a blanket.....so maybe PR was involved in the staging because she did not want JB to be found the way they left her?

Yes, I agree Helgoth is definitely someone of interest, but I think what you are seeing are more 'parallels' than 'coincidences'. In order for him to become a coincidence, he has to intersect somehow with either the Rs or another suspect. So, if we could establish a link, this might increase the likelihood that he played some part in this murder. This has to be real, not imagined or supposed. Did he know someone they knew? Go somewhere they went?

 

[BBB167893]

wasn't it determined that this was a "copy cat" crime rather than a crime by the same person?

I'd say that's likely, IF there was a crime at all. As I told voynich, I can't help but wonder if there was something else involved.

 

[MurriFlower]

I'd say that's likely, IF there was a crime at all. As I told voynich, I can't help but wonder if there was something else involved.

I think the good old BPD (after their usual thorough examination of all the evidence LOL) thought so too. That's why the parents hired their own PI.

I'd also be interested to know who he thought were the 'likely' suspects in the JBR murder, as he spent a little time with LS on this, because he was of the opinion that these two crimes were connected.

Naturally this was dismissed by BPD as a copy cat. Lets face it, they reckoned they already had JBRs murderer(s), so they didn't need to waste time looking anywhere else.

 

[MurriFlower]

Talking of coincidences:

"Questions by Lin Wood
Answers by Mark Beckner

Q (BY MR. WOOD) Were you aware of any relationship between Bill McReynolds and Chris Wolf?
A Now that you bring it up, yes.
Q Am I correct that in fact the Boulder Police Department was aware that Bill McReynolds had served as an academic advisor at the University of Colorado to Chris Wolf?
A What I can tell you is that sounds familiar.
Q Was that relationship investigated by the Boulder Police Department?
A I believe it was.
Q Do you know the name of the detective who was in charge of investigating that relationship between Chris Wolf and Bill McReynolds?
A I'm not sure.
Q Do you know what the results of that investigation revealed in terms of the nature and extent and duration or any other details of the investigation --
A No, I don't recall.
Q -- of the relationship?
A I don't recall.
Q Would there be -- would you expect that there would be some written reports that would document what the investigators found in terms of any details about the relationship between Chris Wolf and Bill McReynolds?
A I would expect there to be.
Q Would it be significant from the standpoint of the Boulder Police Department investigation if there was a relationship between two individuals who were both considered to be under the umbrella of suspicion?
A Maybe, maybe not. That really depends on a lot of factors.
Q We know that Chris Wolf was under the umbrella of suspicion, correct?
A Correct.
Q Was Bill McReynolds ever under the umbrella of suspicion?
MR. MILLER: I object. This has nothing to do with Chris Wolf. You --
MR. WOOD: I think I just showed that it did.

"

 

[DeeDee249]

While I can certainly see why both CW and Santa Bill could be viewed as potential suspects (each has a "creepiness" factor to a varying degree), there was absolutely no forensic evidence linking either man to the crime scene. JMK is creepy too, nothing links him to the crime either.

 

[MurriFlower]

While I can certainly see why both CW and Santa Bill could be viewed as potential suspects (each has a "creepiness" factor to a varying degree), there was absolutely no forensic evidence linking either man to the crime scene. JMK is creepy too, nothing links him to the crime either.

This thread is to discuss coincidences. I'd call this a coincidence.

No evidence discovered by BPD that links either of them to the crime. Did they look for any? Of course, if you don't look, then you don't see!

 

[DeeDee249]

This thread is to discuss coincidences. I'd call this a coincidence.

No evidence discovered by BPD that links either of them to the crime. Did they look for any? Of course, if you don't look, then you don't see!

But they did look. All these creepy guys gave samples. None matched anything at the crime scene. There are plenty of things in evidence. But none have been sourced to a PERSON other than those sourced to the parents at this point.
I am wondering about the line of questioning regarding a Santa suit in the R basement. JR admitting having a santa suit. Wondering if that Santa suit was tested for any fibers or DNA. Would that Santa suit have been in the basement because someone was trying to throw some suspicion on Santa Bill? Does that Santa suit have anything to do with the secret Santa visit? Is that a coincidence?

 

[MurriFlower]

But they did look. All these creepy guys gave samples. None matched anything at the crime scene. There are plenty of things in evidence. But none have been sourced to a PERSON other than those sourced to the parents at this point.
I am wondering about the line of questioning regarding a Santa suit in the R basement. JR admitting having a santa suit. Wondering if that Santa suit was tested for any fibers or DNA. Would that Santa suit have been in the basement because someone was trying to throw some suspicion on Santa Bill? Does that Santa suit have anything to do with the secret Santa visit? Is that a coincidence?

Where was this?

 

[DeeDee249]

This is something that was known very early in the investigation. I don't recall if I read it in ST's book, PMPT, or in the interviews on line. I would go back and search the interviews if they were still there. (I am pretty upset they are gone, they were excellent resources).
JR had a Santa suit that he used for Access Graphics holiday parties. I believe that something was found (in a window well) and JR was asked about the Santa Suit.
If anyone has this archived, please post it.

 

[claudicici]

http://extras.denverpost.com/news/ram1014k.htm

this article mentions that a Santa Suit was taken as evidence.It does not mention who it belongs to and where it was found

 

[DeeDee249]

We know that some of the things in that article have been clarified.
For example, the palm print on the door had been sourced to Melinda R, JR's older daughter. It was also discovered that BR did own a pair of Hi-Tecs. His were described as having a compass in the laces.
The green garland in her hair could have come from the staircase, but there were plenty of Christmas decorations in the basement, and it could have come from the basement floor. To me, this was important to source. It matters which decoration the green bits in her hair came from. If the stairs, it would point to her having been carried down the stairs (dead? unconscious?). If the basement, it points to her having been possible killed on the basement floor (where there were also urine stains on a carpet). I don't think they ever tried to see where the green bits came from.
The receipt from McGuckin's hardware didn't list ANY items by name, only price and department. Items matching both the tape and the cord in price and department were on that receipt.

 

[BBB167893]

I think the good old BPD (after their usual thorough examination of all the evidence LOL) thought so too. That's why the parents hired their own PI.

Given the man's record, that's not exactly a selling point.

I'd also be interested to know who he thought were the 'likely' suspects in the JBR murder, as he spent a little time with LS on this, because he was of the opinion that these two crimes were connected.

The PI seems to be one person involved in this case who WAS out for self-promotion.

Naturally this was dismissed by BPD as a copy cat. Lets face it, they reckoned they already had JBRs murderer(s), so they didn't need to waste time looking anywhere else.

Even if that's true, you say it as if they had no reason to take that approach.

 

[MurriFlower]

Given the man's record, that's not exactly a selling point.

Which man?

The PI seems to be one person involved in this case who WAS out for self-promotion.

Oh, I thought you had quite a list?

Even if that's true, you say it as if they had no reason to take that approach.

Ha ha.

 

[BBB167893]

Which man?

Peterson.

Oh, I thought you had quite a list?

I DO. But let's focus on this one for now. (In fairness, I should have categorized it.)

Ha ha.

I'm glad you find that funny, MF. But considering that they were working with professionals of the very first order, I'm afraid I don't see the humor.

 

[MurriFlower]

Peterson.

I DO. But let's focus on this one for now. (In fairness, I should have categorized it.)

I'm glad you find that funny, MF. But considering that they were working with professionals of the very first order, I'm afraid I don't see the humor.

Ok, well as you obviously have some information about the PI, perhaps you could enlighten us all?

Is there something about his record with which you have issues?

How exactly did he self promote?

I was laughing at your facetious remark!

 

[MurriFlower]

But they did look. All these creepy guys gave samples. None matched anything at the crime scene. There are plenty of things in evidence. But none have been sourced to a PERSON other than those sourced to the parents at this point.
I am wondering about the line of questioning regarding a Santa suit in the R basement. JR admitting having a santa suit. Wondering if that Santa suit was tested for any fibers or DNA. Would that Santa suit have been in the basement because someone was trying to throw some suspicion on Santa Bill? Does that Santa suit have anything to do with the secret Santa visit? Is that a coincidence?

Hope you don't mind, but I'll repeat that with a few highlights:

"Questions by Lin Wood
Answers by Mark Beckner

Q (BY MR. WOOD) Were you aware of any relationship between Bill McReynolds and Chris Wolf?
A Now that you bring it up, yes.
Q Am I correct that in fact the Boulder Police Department was aware that Bill McReynolds had served as an academic advisor at the University of Colorado to Chris Wolf?
A What I can tell you is that sounds familiar.
Q Was that relationship investigated by the Boulder Police Department?
A I believe it was.
Q Do you know the name of the detective who was in charge of investigating that relationship between Chris Wolf and Bill McReynolds?
A I'm not sure.
Q Do you know what the results of that investigation revealed in terms of the nature and extent and duration or any other details of the investigation --
A No, I don't recall.
Q -- of the relationship?
A I don't recall.
Q Would there be -- would you expect that there would be some written reports that would document what the investigators found in terms of any details about the relationship between Chris Wolf and Bill McReynolds?
A I would expect there to be.
Q Would it be significant from the standpoint of the Boulder Police Department investigation if there was a relationship between two individuals who were both considered to be under the umbrella of suspicion?
A Maybe, maybe not. That really depends on a lot of factors.
Q We know that Chris Wolf was under the umbrella of suspicion, correct?
A Correct.
Q Was Bill McReynolds ever under the umbrella of suspicion?
MR. MILLER: I object. This has nothing to do with Chris Wolf. You --
MR. WOOD: I think I just showed that it did.

"

Superdave: I'm glad you find that funny, MF. But considering that they were working with professionals of the very first order, I'm afraid I don't see the humor.

So, Mark Beckner was who? A "professional of the very first order" who obviously had his finger right on the pulse?? Hmmm, doesn't seem to have had much of a handle on this one. (/fyi Mark Beckner BPD Police Chief)

 

[MurriFlower]

Coincidences -

J McR: "And I feel that the message that I am getting -- the under- current of all of this -- is that the media is saying to this collective community -- to our global village -- in some way she deserved to die.

That, at least, is a message that I am getting: She deserved to die because she was too beautiful. She deserved to die because she was from an affluent family.

She deserved to die because she lived an up scale community. She deserved to die because her family taught her gestures which might be interpreted as sexually suggestive. She deserved to die because she was in beauty pageants.

There's even an implication on some of the talk shows she deserved to die because sometimes she wore lipstick. And to me, that is a crucification of an innocent victim, and I would really, really like to see it stopped."

and

"RN:

If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, she dies. If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies. You will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found, she dies."

 

[madeleine]

J MCr was also a movie critic right?

 

[claudicici]

I always felt very suspicious of JMcR,those "coincidences" surrounding her family and JB's death are really too much to ignore....

 

[madeleine]

I always thought that if a Santa fam member was involved it was someone else who actually did the killing for them(and in this case I bet there's a tape or something out there).They (Santas) were only the masterminds.Pretty creepy that JB was killed so soon after J.McR first met her,she definitely loves to talk about JB and how (she thinks) JB was and was not.I find their TV appearances really weird.