Coincidences

[Roy23]

Wow claudicici, I'd read that, but the date didn't 'click' with me. Thanks for pointing it out.

There was also a daughter born & died on 26 July 1960.

I wonder if anyone could find a connection between the McRenolds family and John Mark Carr?

 

[madeleine]

Jeffrey Ballew JB
JonBenet JB

 

[DeeDee249]

Hmmm. The fence is getting slippery....

 

[Ames]

Hmmm. The fence is getting slippery....

LOL...Yeah, with all of those coinkidinks, we might just fall off the fence onto the IDI side.

 

[Ames]

Jeffrey Ballew JB
JonBenet JB

WOW...the same initials!!!

 

[madeleine]

WOW...the same initials!!!

Are you mocking what I said ?
Sad thing LE had the same mentality.Everything besides PDI is a joke right?Mock all you want.
And I thought I'll see things differently after a one week break,I was wrong

 

[madeleine]

LOL...Yeah, with all of those coinkidinks, we might just fall off the fence onto the IDI side.

What would be so bad about it,maybe you'll be surprised to see what the other side has to offer,seems that you're bored on that side of the fence since you have time to mock everything IDI's and fencesitters have to say.

 

[MurriFlower]

I do not see other alternatives, because all of the puzzle pieces fit....PATSY'S fibers from her sweater/jacket were found all over the crime scene, but no intruder fibers were found. The handwriting experts all agree that a woman wrote that RN....even JOHN said that he thought a woman wrote it. Let's see....a woman wrote the RN, Patsy's fibers all over the crime scene, Patsy NOT recognizing her own bowl, kleenex box, or JB's bear....and many more things that I can add to this list....does NOT add up to an intruder.

I do not see other alternatives No, it's obvious you do not see anything that could make you doubt your own conclusions. Hardly evidence.

all of the puzzle pieces fit In your own mind.

PATSY'S fibers from her sweater/jacket were found all over the crime scene Four (4) fibers on the tape is all we have evidence of. However, PR did live there remember.

but no intruder fibers were found Not true. There were fibers that were unsourced in the house. That means they came from outside. That can only mean they were brought in, and that points to an intruder.

The handwriting experts all agree that a woman wrote that RN Even if that were true, that eliminates 50% of the population. JMKs writing was markedly similar and he is genetically a male.

even JOHN said that he thought a woman wrote it. John is now an expert on handwriting? At least he said something you believe, so that's a start.

You will believe whatever you choose to, but don't try to say there is overwhelming evidence that PDI. If so, you could rest assured that BPD would have arrested and charged her. The fact that they did not means there was not sufficient evidence.

 

[Ames]

Are you mocking what I said ?
Sad thing LE had the same mentality.Everything besides PDI is a joke right?Mock all you want.
And I thought I'll see things differently after a one week break,I was wrong

Relax...no I was not mocking you. I was only joking...I actually agree with you, it is a coincidence.

 

[Ames]

What would be so bad about it,maybe you'll be surprised to see what the other side has to offer,seems that you're bored on that side of the fence since you have time to mock everything IDI's and fencesitters have to say.

No, not mocking....I am just saying that coincidences would not be enough for me to turn IDI, that's all. I am very sorry if you thought that I was mocking you. I do apologize!!!

 

[Ames]

I do not see other alternatives No, it's obvious you do not see anything that could make you doubt your own conclusions. Hardly evidence.

all of the puzzle pieces fit In your own mind.

PATSY'S fibers from her sweater/jacket were found all over the crime scene Four (4) fibers on the tape is all we have evidence of. However, PR did live there remember.

but no intruder fibers were found Not true. There were fibers that were unsourced in the house. That means they came from outside. That can only mean they were brought in, and that points to an intruder.

The handwriting experts all agree that a woman wrote that RN Even if that were true, that eliminates 50% of the population. JMKs writing was markedly similar and he is genetically a male.

even JOHN said that he thought a woman wrote it. John is now an expert on handwriting? At least he said something you believe, so that's a start.

You will believe whatever you choose to, but don't try to say there is overwhelming evidence that PDI. If so, you could rest assured that BPD would have arrested and charged her. The fact that they did not means there was not sufficient evidence.

IMO no arrests were made, because they didn't know which ONE of the Ramseys to arrest. I want to clarify something...I do not for one second...believe that Patsy INTENDED to harm her daughter. I believe that she did fly into some sort of rage though...and accidently hurt her...and then the cover up began. IMO And believe me...I would LOVE to be wrong about all of this. I would hate for the last thing that JB saw...be her own mother.

 

[MurriFlower]

IMO no arrests were made, because they didn't know which ONE of the Ramseys to arrest. I want to clarify something...I do not for one second...believe that Patsy INTENDED to harm her daughter. I believe that she did fly into some sort of rage though...and accidently hurt her...and then the cover up began. IMO And believe me...I would LOVE to be wrong about all of this. I would hate for the last thing that JB saw...be her own mother.

I think you can rest assured that neither parent was her killer.

 

[Roy23]

IMO no arrests were made, because they didn't know which ONE of the Ramseys to arrest. I want to clarify something...I do not for one second...believe that Patsy INTENDED to harm her daughter. I believe that she did fly into some sort of rage though...and accidently hurt her...and then the cover up began. IMO And believe me...I would LOVE to be wrong about all of this. I would hate for the last thing that JB saw...be her own mother.

This was no accident. Not even close.

 

[BBB167893]

even JOHN said that he thought a woman wrote it. John is now an expert on handwriting? At least he said something you believe, so that's a start.

Everyone slips up sooner or later.

You will believe whatever you choose to, but don't try to say there is overwhelming evidence that PDI. If so, you could rest assured that BPD would have arrested and charged her. The fact that they did not means there was not sufficient evidence.

Oh, no, Murriflower. Do not make that mistake, my friend. An arrest was never an issue in this case. The police WANTED to arrest her. The FBI, Georgia cops and Dream Team lawyers TOLD them to arrest her. But there was no point, since the DA wouldn't move forward. In their opinion, there wasn't sufficient evidence, but this is the Boulder DA we're talking about here. They'd need a videotape of the crime just to consider a plea. I didn't start that "Profile in Incompetence" thread just for my health, you know.

You want to talk coincidences that may not be coincidences? I got a few for you, courtesy: http://crimemagazine.com/murder-jonbenét-ramsey

1981: In a highly publicized case, Hunter charged Christopher Courtney with second-degree murder after Courtney shot two people dead at the Longmont Civic Center. When the first trial ended in a mistrial, Hunter reduced the charge to criminally negligent homicide and Courtney walked away with a two-year sentence in the county jail. That generated cries of dismay from the mayor and city council.

1982: Kirk Long resigned as undersheriff. Long penned a letter at that time that sounds chillingly reminiscent of that written in 1998 by Det. Steve Thomas. The letter said, in part: "We in America have a legal system that is designed to be adversarial. It is apparent to me that the only adversary relationships within the legal system of the 20th Judicial District are the relationships between law enforcement agencies and the office of the District Attorney. The ignoring of compelling physical evidence, the artificial bolstering of conviction statistics through plea bargaining, deferred prosecutions, and deferred sentences speaks loudly of incompetence and political maneuvering. The essence of my belief is that the citizens of Boulder County do not have an advocate in the judicial system."

1985: In a foot-dragging case reminiscent of the Ramsey investigation, it took Hunter more than two years to charge Mike Grainger with a crime, even though Grainger's obese wife was found laying in bed with a massive head wound, and there was no evidence of an intruder. Grainger got three years.

1986: In his last major case, Hunter was named special prosecutor in neighboring Adams County to try the sheriff there, Bert Johnson. The sheriff was charged with extortion, embezzlement and sexual misconduct. Hunter offered to dismiss all charges if Johnson would resign from office, but the judge rejected the deal. Hunter lost the case at trial. He decided never to try another case.

Then there's the Thayne Smika case, where Hunter purposely sabotaged a Grand Jury to cut a murder suspect loose.

AND the Jason Midyette case, where a 10-month-old baby boy was found in his own home beaten to death with only his mom and dad in the house. The coroner found 28 bone fractures, healed and in the process of healing. Trip DeMuth said, "that doesn't prove homicide." Apparently, Mary Lacy agreed. It just HAPPENS that Jason's grandfather owns half the city of Boulder. Lacy refused to go forward until one of Bill O'Reilly's reporters cornered her in her own garage over it.

You know, I often liken my pursuit of this case to that of the coyote chasing the roadrunner. But unlike the coyote, I don't NEED a 10,000 lb. weight to clonk me on the head to realize that something's really wrong here.

 

[BBB167893]

IMO no arrests were made, because they didn't know which ONE of the Ramseys to arrest.

That's the way I, Vincent Bugliosi and Rudy Giuliani see it, too.

I want to clarify something...I do not for one second...believe that Patsy INTENDED to harm her daughter. I believe that she did fly into some sort of rage though...and accidently hurt her...and then the cover up began. IMO And believe me...I would LOVE to be wrong about all of this. I would hate for the last thing that JB saw...be her own mother.

I agree with all of that, 120%

 

[BBB167893]

I think you can rest assured that neither parent was her killer.

I wish I could.

 

[BBB167893]

This was no accident. Not even close.

Really? I'd like to know just what you base that assertion on.

 

[Roy23]

Really? I'd like to know just what you base that assertion on.

I actually believe Dr. Wecht is one person who influence me on that. But just like he can play the logic game on other issues so can I. This was a brutal crime scene and I don't believe even the fear of jail could make any parent to stage such humiliation of their own daughter. If I believed RDI, I would believe that they brutally murdered her, just as Wecht states. I heard it elsewhere too.

 

[madeleine]

If I believed RDI, I would believe that they brutally murdered her, just as Wecht states.

Me too,no accident,there's nothing IMO that points to "just an accident " +the most complicated staging in history.

 

[BBB167893]

I actually believe Dr. Wecht is one person who influence me on that.

I see. Well, I respect Dr. Wecht deeply. But in this instance, I think it's helpful to remember that when we say "accident," we mean that the killing was not intentional.

But just like he can play the logic game on other issues so can I.

"Logic game?" You lost me, friend.

This was a brutal crime scene

Well, someone certainly wanted it to look brutal. How successful they were is up for debate. You seem to believe it. The person certainly left her in good enough shape for that massive funeral, didn't they? (And we'll get to that.)

and I don't believe even the fear of jail could make any parent to stage such humiliation of their own daughter.

Yeah, I've come across that notion many times. And I have to admit, I'm no closer to understanding it now than I ever have been. It just strikes me as hopelessly naive. That's NOT an insult to anybody. I'm talking about the viewpoint. I honestly can't figure why anyone would accept that uncritically, since I myself am constantly horrified by what people are capable of when they abandon dignity. I keep going back to what Ron Walker said.

But let's talk specifics here. To address you specifically, you talk about "the fear of prison" as if it was nothing, like it was no big deal. But you think about what may have been going through their minds at the time. PR grew up in the Deep South, where the law is extremely harsh on criminals. The stereotypes of the brutal Southern sheriff and the hanging judge didn't come out of nowhere. They had no reason to think that the law in Boulder would be any different, especially to people like the Rs who were outsiders and nouveau riche in a town known for its leftist, anti-corporate politics.
Add to that the generally unpleasant treatment that people who harm children get in prison. We all know what I'm talking about, and if you don't, I'll spell it out: we're talking mop handles and razor blades here. I have no doubt they were thinking about that. Throw in PR's health worries, the loss of status in the community, the possible rejection by her other loved ones, and the fact that self-preservation is the most powerful instinct there is, human or animal, and you've got a pretty powerful recipe. I would also remind you that in Christian theology, the soul is the person. The body is just crude material. Once the soul leaves the body, it's just a body. It's not that person anymore. I'm not even Christian, but that's how I looked at it when Mom died: it's just a body.

That's not even touching on some of the more esoteric factors. I already did that in "Loved to Death." It's there if you want to read it, and I'd very much like it if you would.

In this particular case, you seem to be relying on what ol' HOTYH would have us believe is the exclusive province of RDI: "circular reasoning." Maybe I'm misinterpreting you, and feel free to tell me so if I am, but your statement reads like: "this was a brutal murder, and the Rs couldn't do it because they weren't capable of brutal murder because they never committed brutal murder before."

If I believed RDI, I would believe that they brutally murdered her, just as Wecht states. I heard it elsewhere too.

So have I. You interest me, Roy. Your answers seem to lead to more questions.