Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #10

[Xavier]

No, and no.

And to touch on postings above about professionals being professionals....if the story is true....the janitor is in line IMHO for a very very bigh recognition.

But as many have stated, good friends and professionals will NOT be talking to the media. And I say kudos for that. My neighbors know me to do superficial, but I Strongly beleeive that not one of my friends would comment to media if I was in a similar place to NL.

I've a high school classmate who works for a major Wash DC national paper and both he and his wife cover the White House...His wife, kids get invited to many WH functions and were at VP Biden's birthday party with lots of Facebook photos...I've emailed him to speak to WH staffers about an honor medal ceremony for the faculty, staff at Sandy Hook...I'll report any news about this..


When I was going through grade school in the 1960-70s, our custodians were some of the coolest, salt of the earth folks you'd ever know...the custodians we had were just great stand-up people..

 

[Xavier]

There is no way to protect mass groups of people (including schools) to a tee. This tragedy is horrible. Just like the movie theater shooting, mall shootings, etc etc. You can go to Starbucks, and the next thing you know somebody is shooting up the place. I really don't think armed guards in certain places are going to help because there isn't ever going to be away to go places with out that certain risk unless you want a complete military style of armed gun men on every street corner. I know some people won't like my point of view when it comes to this, but I really don't think there is a need for a new massive overhaul of protecting children. This was a senseless tragedy, and unfortunately with these loose cannons out there there will never be a way to completely prevent it (this scares people and I understand), but there is never going to be a way to completely prevent these acts unless we start giving up our rights, and become a society with very limited freedoms. IMO

True, there will always be some wacko out there. We can't protect every situation that comes up

But we can no longer give the illusion of security...Something real has to happen even if it's a small measure, like adding a security guard, or installing an alert button/switch in the school offices that alerts LE to an emergency

How many homes with hi tech security systems get broken into? I'd bet alot less than the homes without security systems

You have to think some security presence can prevent or divert criminals?

Some of my LE friends/acquaintances who work here at District 2 police station tell me our local bank robberies are almost always banks that do not have an armed security guard.....Just saying

 

[SpriteGal]

Of course it can divert crimes, my thing though is where can you predict some mad man is going to strike? You'd need security every single place people gather. That is no feasible.

 

[human]

By all means, you as a teacher should do what you feel is morally right for your own classroom situation, particularly if the lockdown drills are already mandated where you are. The places where I reside and the schools where my kids attend, we don't have lockdown drills at all.

I'm saying that I don't think it SHOULD be the responsibility of teachers because they already have their hands full with teaching academia, organizing the appropriate curricula to the relevant students, giving extra assistance to special students, etc. But obviously it is up to the schools and the teachers themselves what they choose to do to protect their students. I would assume most teachers would react similarly to you and comply with school policies regarding lockdowns. But I also think schools should not be warzones, and student safety from terrorists, mass murderers, etc. should not be the teachers' primary responsibility. Such overarching duty should be that of trained experts in public protection, e.g., police officers and guards.

When we have a school lockdown, everyone participates. The custodian goes around and checks to make sure every door is locked. Now whether that would be the case in an actual situation, I do not know. Sounds like a lot to ask to me.

I wonder if parents even know that schools practice lockdowns about once a month. It may be that you have lockdowns in your schools and not are aware of it. It has been in effect for so many years.

 

[Xavier]

I'm glad you brought this up. Here are some incidents in which armed retired and off-duty police officers did make a difference.

"Armed interventions by retired and off-duty police officers, who have been trained to react, are more common. When a shooter entered an AT&T store in 2010 in a small New York town with a list of six employees he planned to kill and shot one of them, a shopper who was an off-duty officer drew his .40 caliber handgun and killed the man."

"A 2007 rampage in Trolley Square, Utah, was put to an end after an officer, who was on a date with his wife, engaged the man in a shootout. The off-duty officer kept the 18-year-old shooter pinned down until more police arrived and killed the shooter."

"In a 2006 school shooting, London Ivey, a school resource officer; and Russ LeBlanc, a former state trooper and driver’s ed teacher, confronted a Columbine-obsessed attacker in North Carolina who was firing at cars outside the school and had killed his father that day. Armed with his pistol, Ivey ordered the student to drop his weapons, and LeBlanc (who was unarmed) put him in handcuffs. In another oft-cited example, a student who opened fire at the Appalachian School of Law in 2002 was brought down by a group of law students who were trained as police officers. Two of the students had armed themselves during the shooting and were involved in subduing the gunman, though there are differing accounts of exactly what role the arms played in the confrontation."

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...hootings_examples_of_armed_interventions.html

Good post BOURNE---Here's an excerpt of hown wacked out the Columbine shooters were...police shot at them several times at their bodies, but the armor made bullets ping off...finally police shot them in the head, where they were least protected

Police found more than 30 pipe bombs around the school, inside boobytrapped cars and in the suspects' two suburban homes. Some bombs were palm-sized carbon-dioxide cartridges wrapped with nails and BBs to maximize killing power. Other bombs, equipped with timers, were made from propane barbecue tanks.

In the school library, where one gunman died from a gunshot wound to the back of the head and another had a hole in the side of his head, police counted four guns: a 9mm semiautomatic carbine, two sawed-off shotguns and a handgun. It's still unknown where they got the guns.

http://extras.denverpost.com/news/shot0422a.htm

 

[bourne]

When we have a school lockdown, everyone participates. The custodian goes around and checks to make sure every door is locked. Now whether that would be the case in an actual situation, I do not know. Sounds like a lot to ask to me.

I wonder if parents even know that schools practice lockdowns about once a month. It may be that you have lockdowns in your schools and not are aware of it. It has been in effect for so many years.

Thanks for your concern but my three kids and hubby and I are close, and we have good communication. I also attend every PTA meeting, and speak with my kids' teachers on a regular basis. So I know their schools have had no lockdowns. The kids' schools did have emergency preparedness drills in case of disasters such as hurricanes and the like, but no mass shooting lockdowns. They also had cellphone alert practices. That was all. No hiding in closets, no teachers putting up black construction paper across windows, no locking up classrooms.

 

[flipflop]

Thanks for your concern but my three kids and hubby and I are close, and we have good communication. I also attend every PTA meeting, and speak with my kids' teachers on a regular basis. So I know their schools have had no lockdowns. The kids' schools did have emergency preparedness drills in case of disasters such as hurricanes and the like, but no mass shooting lockdowns. They also had cellphone alert practices. That was all. No hiding in closets, no teachers putting up black construction paper across windows, no locking up classrooms.

What state has schools that does not have lockdowns????? This is unheard of to me? You should ask your school Principal why they are not practicing these lockdowns, as it is law that all schools have them.

 

[popsicle]

Good post BOURNE---Here's an excerpt of hown wacked out the Columbine shooters were...police shot at them several times at their bodies, but the armor made bullets ping off...finally police shot them in the head, where they were least protected

Police found more than 30 pipe bombs around the school, inside boobytrapped cars and in the suspects' two suburban homes. Some bombs were palm-sized carbon-dioxide cartridges wrapped with nails and BBs to maximize killing power. Other bombs, equipped with timers, were made from propane barbecue tanks.

In the school library, where one gunman died from a gunshot wound to the back of the head and another had a hole in the side of his head, police counted four guns: a 9mm semiautomatic carbine, two sawed-off shotguns and a handgun. It's still unknown where they got the guns.

http://extras.denverpost.com/news/shot0422a.htm

Meticulous planning

What's now beyond dispute — largely from the killers' journals, which have been released over the past few years, is this: Harris and Klebold killed 13 and wounded 24, but they had hoped to kill thousands.

The pair planned the attacks for more than a year, building 100 bombs and persuading friends to buy them guns. Just after 11 a.m. on April 20, they lugged a pair of duffel bags containing propane-tank bombs into Columbine's crowded cafeteria and another into the kitchen, then stepped outside and waited.

Had the bombs exploded, they'd have killed virtually everyone eating lunch and brought the school's second-story library down atop the cafeteria, police say. Armed with a pistol, a rifle and two sawed-off shotguns, the pair planned to pick off survivors fleeing the carnage.

As a last terrorist act, a pair of gasoline bombs planted in Harris' Honda and Klebold's BMW had been rigged apparently to kill police, rescue teams, journalists and parents who rushed to the school — long after the pair expected they would be dead.

The pair had parked the cars about 100 yards apart in the student lot. The bombs didn't go off.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-04-13-columbine-myths_N.htm

The pair died in the library from self inflicted gun shot wounds.

 

[JBean]

I was curious what my local school district does in terms of safety procedures. My kids have been out for a long time . They had sheriff's deputies on campus even back when my kids were in school, but I noticed a couple other things that caught eye as being helpful along with lockdown drills:


>>As a result of newly developed software, all sheriff vehicles in the region have immediate access to school floor plans and aerial photographs of schools on their dash-mounted computer screens.<<

And

>>the District maintains a centralized Emergency Operation Center that may be immediately activated to oversee and distribute communication across the entire District. With 25 phone lines dedicated to emergency use, this system allows parents to seek additional information in an emergency by contacting the District’s regular phone line.<<

http://capousd.ca.schoolloop.com/news/view?d=x&id=1346931673249

 

[flipflop]

I was curious what my local school district does in terms of safety procedures. My kids have been out for a long time . They had sheriff's deputies on campus even back when my kids were in school, but I noticed a couple other things that caught eye as being helpful along with lockdown drills:


>>As a result of newly developed software, all sheriff vehicles in the region have immediate access to school floor plans and aerial photographs of schools on their dash-mounted computer screens.<<

And

>>the District maintains a centralized Emergency Operation Center that may be immediately activated to oversee and distribute communication across the entire District. With 25 phone lines dedicated to emergency use, this system allows parents to seek additional information in an emergency by contacting the District’s regular phone line.<<

http://capousd.ca.schoolloop.com/news/view?d=x&id=1346931673249

The Government in my area put out a booklet on procedures that we must follow for all schools. A floor plan is included in these recommendations and our local LE has every schools floor plans and procedures.

 

[Cubby]

Small Catholic school and no "lock down" for mad gunman type practises that I am aware of, or at least none prior to this incident.... The doors are always locked in accordinance with fire safety laws.

The school is so small it's almost impossible to not to recognize everyone who belongs their by face, if not name. I have no experience working in schools, or in public grammer schools, but this incident really made me wonder if building more schools with much smaller student populations would help. I don't the answers, but school size did cross my mind.

 

[bourne]

:cheers:

What state has schools that does not have lockdowns????? This is unheard of to me? You should ask your school Principal why they are not practicing these lockdowns, as it is law that all schools have them.

We have homes in various states and I don't want to give out private info, but here is an article on some schools which do not do lockdowns and instead use alternative methods.

http://www.annenberginstitute.org/VUE/spring08/Beam.php

We're going out with friends now to celebrate New Year's so I won't be answering anything else until next year. In the meantime, HAPPY NEW YEAR 2013 to all sleuthers!

 

[jjenny]

I totally agree with you! But for some reason it seems noone wants to pay the extra protection for our children. Maybe would should pay our teachers more and give THEM the extra training and the guns to protect our children.

I would be happy for a teacher to be paid 75k a year, if they went to semi annual gun training and carried a personal weapon on their bodies at all times. Let me repeat... ON THEIR BODIES AT ALL TIMES.

Not ever teacher would agree, and that would be okay. But I believe most would, and that would give HUGE indication that maybe this isn't the school to use as an example of (school shooters) rage targets!

And then we are going to have accidents of these guns falling of their bodies and killing some innocent bystander. Why would you think it's safe for someone to carry loaded guns with them on their bodies at all times? And how do you know all these teachers are stable?

 

[flipflop]

Small Catholic school and no "lock down" for mad gunman type practises that I am aware of, or at least none prior to this incident.... The doors are always locked in accordinance with fire safety laws.

The school is so small it's almost impossible to not to recognize everyone who belongs their by face, if not name. I have no experience working in schools, or in public grammer schools, but this incident really made me wonder if building more schools with much smaller student populations would help. I don't the answers, but school size did cross my mind.

So in the event of a major crisis, such as what happened at Sandy Hook, the teachers at this school have NO plan in place to try and protect themselves or your kids. These events can happen anywhere at any size of school. It can be a familiar face with the gun.

We have been doing these lockdown drills since it became law in 2007, I just assumed everywhere had safe school practices.

 

[flipflop]

:cheers:

We have homes in various states and I don't want to give out private info, but here is an article on some schools which do not do lockdowns and instead use alternative methods.

http://www.annenberginstitute.org/VUE/spring08/Beam.php

We're going out with friends now to celebrate New Year's so I won't be answering anything else until next year. In the meantime, HAPPY NEW YEAR 2013 to all sleuthers!

I noticed the date on the info you provided was from 2008. The NYCDOE now has lockdown procedures, they call it a General Response Protocol, which includes shelter ins, lockdowns and evacuations.

 

[Donjeta]

lol I think the suicidal ideation likely comes AFTER the LE officer has retired for some time and only if s/he had not been able to adapt in a productive manner in retirement. If these officers nearing and post-retirement were given the opportunity to take on new roles as guardians of schools, perhaps some of them may not fall into the suicidal trap. I'm sincerely thinking of saving society two-fold: the retired police officers' happiness and health, and simultaneously help protect schools against potential violence via deterrence. Kill two birds with one stone, sort to speak, though in this case, the pun was unintended.

BBM. Your quote said suicides were the most common before retirement.

"Mortality is another topic of research in police retirement. An extensive study of more than 2,000 officers in Buffalo, New York, found that the age-mortality rate for officers was, on average, 12 years lower than their civilian counterparts; health issues, such as cancer and heart disease, increased as officers drew closer to retirement; and the average life expectancy after retiring was 5.05 years less than that of people in other occupations. 30 This research also revealed that officer suicides were three times higher and appeared to occur more often just before retirement, a possible indicator of the stress of retirement at a time period when maladaptive factors can form."
https://www2.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2009/october2009/retiring_feature.htm

I don't know... I think some people might kill themselves out of sheer boredom if they were used to the excitement and ever changing situations in their LE career and spend their retirement days sitting in a school lobby waiting for the chance to jump to the defense of innocent little children. In most cases, they'd end up sitting there doing absolutely nothing at all.

 

[FragileSugar]

Mourning Noah Pozner, the Jewish boy whose life was taken too soon

Here is one of the most heartbreaking stories I think I've read so far. Warning - It does contain graphic information about the condition of Noah's body.

 

[Elley Mae]

Are there any thoughts on why AL used the Marlin .22 hunting rifle to kill his mother and not one of the pistols?

I have wondered about this versus his access, the marlin .22 is a hunting rifle and does not have restrictions like a pistol.

 

[bourne]

BBM. Your quote said suicides were the most common before retirement.

"Mortality is another topic of research in police retirement. An extensive study of more than 2,000 officers in Buffalo, New York, found that the age-mortality rate for officers was, on average, 12 years lower than their civilian counterparts; health issues, such as cancer and heart disease, increased as officers drew closer to retirement; and the average life expectancy after retiring was 5.05 years less than that of people in other occupations. 30 This research also revealed that officer suicides were three times higher and appeared to occur more often just before retirement, a possible indicator of the stress of retirement at a time period when maladaptive factors can form."
https://www2.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2009/october2009/retiring_feature.htm

I don't know... I think some people might kill themselves out of sheer boredom if they were used to the excitement and ever changing situations in their LE career and spend their retirement days sitting in a school lobby waiting for the chance to jump to the defense of innocent little children. In most cases, they'd end up sitting there doing absolutely nothing at all.

You're correct, the quote in this study says that, but other research studies have indicated that the frequency of suicides for retired police officers are higher than those of other professions. When I have time, I'll have to try to locate those studies stats.

Definitely the quality of life and the pre-retirement health status of an individual are good predictors of the morality rate post-retirement. A pre-retiree who is already healthy and happy and who regularly engages in activities s/he enjoys will likely live longer after retirement than the person who isn't and doesn't. I think that is self-evident.

What the stats do suggest regarding retirees across different careers is that the mortality rate of retired police officers is higher than the norm. We can read what we want into the causes of the higher mortality rate, but all I'm suggesting is that we help these retired police officers who are already trained professionally to use guns and weapons, and who handle high-risk, physically life-threatening situations on a daily basis transition into a less active lifestyle upon their retirement from the police force. One way would be to have these retired police officers become school guards/officers and hopefully also help prevent violence in schools. I see this as a good viable solution to the school threats.

 

[bourne]

Are there any thoughts on why AL used the Marlin .22 hunting rifle to kill his mother and not one of the pistols?

I have wondered about this versus his access, the marlin .22 is a hunting rifle and does not have restrictions like a pistol.

At this point without more evidence about AL and his mom's relationship, we're just all guessing. Maybe he didn't feel the pistol was sufficient for the amount of rage he felt towards his mom. Maybe he felt by using a hunting rifle he was killing a wild beast. Honestly it could be a whole slew of reasons.