Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #11

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Bells toll in Newtown for school shooting victims

JOHN CHRISTOFFERSEN, AP
36 minutes ago

NEWTOWN, Conn. (AP) — Bells tolled 26 times to honor the children and educators killed one year ago in a shooting rampage at Sandy Hook Elementary School as local churches held memorial services and President Barack Obama observed a moment of silence.

With snow falling and many homes decorated with Christmas lights, Newtown looked every bit the classic New England town, with long lines at a coffee shop and general store. But reminders of the private grief were everywhere. "God bless the families," read a sign posted at one house in the green and white colors of the Sandy Hook school, and a church posted that it was "open for prayer." ...

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20131214/US--Connecticut.School.Shooting/
 
  • #1,322
Sorry but there is nothing "logical" about AL's mother including him in her love for guns and the above linked article cements my feelings. I am sorry she died in a violent manner, but my sympathy extends no further. If your son can't even interact in the most basic way with other human beings, has obsessive compulsions and orders you around, taping trash bags to windows and forces you to isolate your house from all other human contact, do you really think giving him an arsenal of weapons is logical?


Anyways I don't want to give AL the attention today, he was not a victim. My mind and heart are with the families today weathering yet another Christmas without their babies.
 
  • #1,323
I know Sandy Hook has adopted the phrase 'we choose love.' Well, it seems Nancy chose love too. And her reward was to be shot savagely in the head.

The complete lack of sympathy and exclusion of this woman from memorials saddens me. Where is the sense of community? Of understanding that one of their own had tried her best to parent, driven by love and good intentions? Of acknowledgement that this person faced challenges with her son, on her own, far beyond what 99% of parents ever have to face?

People make mistakes and bad decisions - has she not paid for it enough? Her whole life has been taken and distilled into one bad decision only made because she wanted to try and bond with her son.

Her whole life was a labour of love - from painstakingly separating out his meals, to doing loads of laundry to accommodate his obsession with changing clothes, to finding the balance 'between pushing and not pushing too hard' (as she wrote in an email to a friend), to being willing to uproot her life to do what needed to be done for him - all this despite his complete lack of ability to give her anything back - like the love, affection and companionship that would define the relationship between them had he been 'normal'.

Reading Lysiak this week and hearing about her sitting in the next room patiently reading a book during his school classes as a comfort just illustrates the lengths she was willing to go to to do what she thought was best for her son.

And all this, on her own in an empty mansion and apparently without the support of her husband and older son or other support networks. I can't help but feel it is a complete tragedy that neither Ryan nor Peter had engaged with N/A in those past couple of years. Does a father or brother really just accept it when their son/brother cuts contact? Could they have done more? I'm sure it's something they grapple with.

This case reminds me of when old people die in their homes alone and their bodies are only found years later as nobody cares about them anymore. Who was looking out for Nancy Lanza?

It is certainly a tragedy that was borne of a clash of unfortunate circumstances - the breakup of the family unit, access to guns, but also NL being raised in a gun culture - this can't be overlooked.

A gun culture may be built around safety, but it is still there, normalising and encouraging the use of weapons.

If you have grown up with the attitude that having an interest in and recreationally shooting guns is acceptable and normal...well...you're less likely to balk at involving your children in that hobby as a general rule. You're simply not going to be as critical once it is a normalised activity.

Given NL grew up in a culture where guns were an acceptable and enjoyed hobby and did not see her son as a threat, logically, of course she would involve him!

I don't think we can underestimate the power of her upbringing and a gun society in her ultimately making the decision that it was a good way to bond with him.

I feel really very sad for her. She was alone.

BBM, this is what bothers me too. Her legal rights over Adam have absolutely nothing to do with Adam's father's moral responsibility to know what is going on with his son. He's not saying that he knew Adam needed help but Nancy wouldn't agree to it. He's saying she never TOLD him?? I mean, come on. Kinda weak if you ask me. I hate judging this poor father. But he made a mistake feigning ignorance of his son's major problems. Adding insult to injury, he then shirks even more personal responsibility by alluding it was his exwife's fault that he was ignorant to his own son's major problems. I just think its best that he not point any fingers lest they point back at him.

I also think the gun access was a major major misjudgment on her part. And she's paid the price along with many innocent people. I don't know how I feel about gun rights. I was raised to be terrified of them. My husband was given a rifle at age 10 'cause that's how they did it in his "neck of the woods" Needless to say, its been a source of strife in my own household.

Personally, I think the Sandy Hook tragedy should bring forth discussions on mental health or even family virtues. I think this family had a LOT of dysfunction in it. Individually and as a group. Unfortunately so much that it took its toll on innocent children. Everyone in that family was in denial- and now it is plain to see. Why can't we use this to open other people's eyes?

Whew- thanks for reading whoever made it through my dissertation.
 
  • #1,324
BBM, this is what bothers me too. Her legal rights over Adam have absolutely nothing to do with Adam's father's moral responsibility to know what is going on with his son. He's not saying that he knew Adam needed help but Nancy wouldn't agree to it. He's saying she never TOLD him?? I mean, come on. Kinda weak if you ask me. I hate judging this poor father. But he made a mistake feigning ignorance of his son's major problems. Adding insult to injury, he then shirks even more personal responsibility by alluding it was his exwife's fault that he was ignorant to his own son's major problems. I just think its best that he not point any fingers lest they point back at him.

I also think the gun access was a major major misjudgment on her part. And she's paid the price along with many innocent people. I don't know how I feel about gun rights. I was raised to be terrified of them. My husband was given a rifle at age 10 'cause that's how they did it in his "neck of the woods" Needless to say, its been a source of strife in my own household.

Personally, I think the Sandy Hook tragedy should bring forth discussions on mental health or even family virtues. I think this family had a LOT of dysfunction in it. Individually and as a group. Unfortunately so much that it took its toll on innocent children. Everyone in that family was in denial- and now it is plain to see. Why can't we use this to open other people's eyes?

Whew- thanks for reading whoever made it through my dissertation.

Did it cross anyone's mind to talk to CPS or to Nancy about her mentally ill son using firearms? The shooting range, why didn't they ask more questions.
If I was aware of a severely ill teen/young adult using firearms I would have discussed this with CPS/the police.
Any laws that prevent a parent from supplying a mentally ill adult access to her guns?
 
  • #1,325
Did it cross anyone's mind to talk to CPS or to Nancy about her mentally ill son using firearms? The shooting range, why didn't they ask more questions.
If I was aware of a severely ill teen/young adult using firearms I would have discussed this with CPS/the police.
Any laws that prevent a parent from supplying a mentally ill adult access to her guns?

It appears Nancy was trying to protect Adam from the world and not betray him. Adam did not like to be touched. Can you imagine what would happen if police arrested Adam? This could be why the father was kept out of their lives. Nancy may have feared her ex or her older son would have turned Adam in to the authorities. jmo
 
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It appears Nancy was trying to protect Adam from the world and not betray him. Adam did not like to be touched. Can you imagine what would happen if police arrested Adam? This could be why the father was kept out of their lives. Nancy may have feared her ex or her older son would have turned Adam in to the authorities. jmo

Yes, Nancy wa trying to protect her son, but not herself or anyone else.
If you cannot handle being touched, looked at, or talked to and have to hide away in a dark room with no contact with a severe mental illness the last thing he needed was access to guns. He sounded non-functional as an adult. Not sure why she didn't institutionalized him when it was suggested. Hindsight 20/20.
 
  • #1,327
Yes, Nancy wa trying to protect her son, but not herself or anyone else.
If you cannot handle being touched, looked at, or talked to and have to hide away in a dark room with no contact with a severe mental illness the last thing he needed was access to guns. He sounded non-functional as an adult. Not sure why she didn't institutionalized him when it was suggested. Hindsight 20/20.

Oh, I agree about the guns. I would have removed them when he went to play his games at the theater. If necessary I'd have called the police and had them come in and remove them and tell him when he returned that someone reported her. If she were afraid of him that would have been an option. But I guess if she feared him she wouldn't have had the guns in the first place.

Not sure they still institutionalize someone who can function. Anyone know for sure? Being mentally ill is not a reason to institutionalize someone unless they are a danger. Up to that point he did not appear to be a danger to anyone because he isolated himself. jmo
 
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Did it cross anyone's mind to talk to CPS or to Nancy about her mentally ill son using firearms? The shooting range, why didn't they ask more questions.
If I was aware of a severely ill teen/young adult using firearms I would have discussed this with CPS/the police.
Any laws that prevent a parent from supplying a mentally ill adult access to her guns?

That is a really good question. The (IMO whole) family was in obvious need of outside intervention even before firearms were introduced. I'm assuming he did not take the gun safety class with her, because from what my husband says, those instructors don't play.
 
  • #1,329
Forever rest in peace sweet angels!
 
  • #1,330
Did it cross anyone's mind to talk to CPS or to Nancy about her mentally ill son using firearms? The shooting range, why didn't they ask more questions.
If I was aware of a severely ill teen/young adult using firearms I would have discussed this with CPS/the police.
Any laws that prevent a parent from supplying a mentally ill adult access to her guns?

Here are the gun laws by state:

http://www.ncsl.org/research/civil-...session-of-a-firearm-by-the-mentally-ill.aspx

As far as mental illness and possessing a gun, each state has different laws. Having a mental illness does not disqualify a person from owning a gun. Usually there has to be a situation where a person has been involuntarily committed, a judge has ruled a person mentally incompetent, the person has been ruled to be a threat to themselves or others.....

Aspergers is not a mental illness and I don't believe AL was ever diagnosed with a mental illness anyway. There isn't anything that CPS or LE could legally do about her taking him to a gun range.

Each gun range probably has different rules. As long as AL followed the rules and acted responsibly at the range, there would be no reason for them to be concerned. If the range felt that he was a danger for any reason, then they would have intervened.

Does anyone recall when or if it was noted he last went to a gun range?
 
  • #1,331
That is a really good question. The (IMO whole) family was in obvious need of outside intervention even before firearms were introduced. I'm assuming he did not take the gun safety class with her, because from what my husband says, those instructors don't play.

http://news.yahoo.com/sandy-hook-re...d-to-buy-him-gun-for-christmas-210859068.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/28/nra-confirms-it-has-no-re_n_2972762.html

A student handbook and a certificate were found in AL's house. I'm pretty sure that I read elsewhere he took a training course.

NRA training courses are taught by a network of more than 5,000 firing range instructors across the country, and they are available to anyone, even if that person is not an NRA member. Nancy Lanza was described by friends as a "gun enthusiast" who liked to bring her son with her to the gun range -- it's possible she and Adam Lanza secured NRA certificates at a gun range for completing a course offered by the organization, without being members.
 
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One of the things about the discussion of AL that continues to puzzle me is the view expressed by many that he must have been “competent” and “not severely mentally ill” merely because he had not been FORMALLY diagnosed with a slew of Axis I and Axis II disorders.

IMO as a health care provider, what is most prominent is the degree to which formal, comprehensive diagnosis and treatment was AVOIDED by his parents from approximately age 6-17. And yes, I do believe PL bears a substantial amount of responsibility for this avoidance of care while AL was a minor, as well as NL. His mother cherry picked a menu of “services” provided by educational institutions, but foolishly and stubbornly avoided comprehensive mental health evaluation and chronic treatment for AL. That, IMO, is the most severe negligence displayed, second only to providing him with firearms that he himself would not have been able to purchase.

ACCESS to mental health services was not the issue—active denial and avoidance was the problem that set the stage for the massacre. I believe that if AL had been presented for care, by a parent committed to him receiving care, he would have received very high level care in that region of the country. Denial over more than 10 years was the villain here—by both NL and PL. AL didn’t “suddenly” develop his mental illness in the last 3 years of his life—news reports chronicle at least 13 years of monumentally dysfunctional behaviors, and everyone assumed NL was getting him proper treatment because she was so devoted and involved.

It is this prolonged avoidance of presenting AL for the RIGHT mental health care that set the stage for him to become a “competent” adult on his 18th birthday, when in fact, he was anything but competent in caring for himself. I believe he could have been, and indeed SHOULD have been placed in a guardianship situation before age 18. With his history, I don’t think that would have been difficult at all. Institutionalization is not really an option anymore in the U.S., until someone displays violence, and is CHRONICALLY refractory to care in the community. He needed a team of mental health professionals, and external supervision. Instead, he had a devoted enabler, convinced she knew what was "best" for him. Who provided him with an arsenal of firearms, and indulged his dangerous delusions and fantasies by providing him "privacy", internet connections, and thousands of dollars of violent video games.

The bigger question in my mind, is how do we, as a society, compel mental health treatment for minors, without trampling on the “rights” of the parents to avoid and refuse care? When will it be enough of a public health and safety issue that we begin to talk about compulsory care? How many other disturbed adolescents are brewing and being enabled right now, that need intervention before they shoot up a public space? Why can we take Amish parents and evangelical parents and Christian Scientist parents to court to compel them to present their children with cancer for treatment, but we can’t compel mental health services and family supervision until a disturbed kid (who the entire town knows is deeply disturbed) shoots up a school?? The CPS agencies are so broken and overworked just with garden variety child abuse, drugs, and crime that mental health issues fall off the priority list. And upper class families with disturbed kids are off their radar entirely.

I believe this is a huge public health and safety issue. I don’t know how many more tragedies it will take before we stop just mourning and wringing our hands and DO something about it.

20 first graders and 6 teachers were brutally massacred—and still we tiptoe around political correctness that holds no one but the shooter accountable, and pretends that he was just a bit odd and no one saw it coming. That is complete BS, IMO. This didn’t happen out of the blue—AL was enabled all the way into Sandyhook Elementary. It was preventable. But it’s just so much easier as a society to focus on passing a bunch of new gun regulations, than to admit that this kid was fatally mishandled for a decade or more, leading right up to the carnage. I can feel tremendous pity and empathy for Peter and Nancy Lanza, and still hold them 100% accountable for what Adam did. I’m angry with both of them, even while I pity them. That’s my opinion.

I believe Adam was so mentally ill, and so profoundly damaged emotionally and socially that he was not able to make a competent decision. I don’t care that he could “sequence events” and plan things out—that is not evidence of competent decision making. We just don’t know how tremendously mentally disabled he actually was, because NO ONE made him get comprehensive mental health care. That is the issue for me. Pass all the new gun regulation you want, but it won’t solve the problems that created Adam Lanza and his massacre. If he was hell bent on rampage and massacre, he could have driven a bus into a crowd of kids—the weapon would be different, but the outcome the same.

Had AL lived, I don’t believe he would have been found competent to stand trial.

(Sorry for getting so fired up, lol!)
 
  • #1,333
.

The fact appears to be that, yes, Nancy was alone but it also appears it was from her own choice. We do not know much about Adam's father but the choice to divorce may not have been his. The choice to move out may not have been his. We just do not have that information so it is unfair to place a burden on the Dad, or his oldest son for that matter because they may not have been given a choice. So what we are left with is what we know from what has been reported.

Most of us are trying to figure out what went wrong and not really trying to place the blame on Nancy, although it might sound that way. I think we all realize she had a lot on her plate to try and handle Adam all by herself and it clearly did not work. None of us want this ever to happen again, ever. Sometimes discussions help us understand what could have happened. jmo

Snipped and BBM for focus.

Respectfully, what if the most likely answer is denial and fatal enabling by his own mother and father?

Yes, they are victims, too. BUT....how, as a society, do we help and "shelter" them from criticism and responsibility, AND protect the innocent victims in the "next" rampage? Why must we cloak ourselves in denial that anyone other than the shooter could harbor any responsibility? It is a difficult conversation, but I believe it is one we should have- nationally.

Do we hold school personnel responsible for contacting authorities to make sure appropriate care in in place and external supervision is occurring? Is that too much responsibility for schools and teachers? How do we, as a society, make sure that these disturbed adolescents and children are not prevented from receiving care? Particularly when the minor has parents who have the intellect, and financial means to provide that care and supervision?

It may not be politically correct, but I believe that AL's parents, as wealthy, intelligent, and educated people, had MORE responsibility to make sure AL had appropriate care and supervision. To those who are given much, much is required. (To paraphrase.) They had ultimate means and access, and they AVOIDED and DENIED and ENABLED. That is a pretty serious level of responsibility, IMO. This is not a poor family with limited education, and means. That makes it so much worse, IMO. They had access to the best care available-- and chose to avoid. Sad and sickening, on so many levels.
 
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Some interesting opinions in this article about Asperger's and violence

http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news/20121218/aspergers-violence?page=2

She says most people who commit crimes do it for some kind of concrete reward -- money, for instance, or sex, or drugs. That’s not the case in people with autism spectrum disorders.

“In these cases, it’s very, very different. The motive for the crime is different. The motive of the crime is to communicate that you yourself are very offended. Other people have treated you in a very bad way and you want revenge. You want to communicate that on a very global level to lots of people,” she says.

“This behavior is completely impossible to understand because it’s so horrible. A psychopath would never commit such a crime,” she says “because a psychopath commits crimes that he receives some benefit from, and he would not commit suicide after a crime.”

“Asperger’s subjects may have special interests. He had a special interest in shooting and guns and so on. So he had a license for lots of guns,” she says, referring to Mangs.

When people with Asperger’s become fixated on weapons, it can lead to violence, she says.

“It could be fires or fire-setting. We have even seen an interest in explosives that had very problematic effects and offending behavior,” Kristiansson says.
 
  • #1,335
One of the things about the discussion of AL that continues to puzzle me is the view expressed by many that he must have been “competent” and “not severely mentally ill” merely because he had not been FORMALLY diagnosed with a slew of Axis I and Axis II disorders.



IMO as a health care provider, what is most prominent is the degree to which formal, comprehensive diagnosis and treatment was AVOIDED by his parents from approximately age 6-17. And yes, I do believe PL bears a substantial amount of responsibility for this avoidance of care while AL was a minor, as well as NL. His mother cherry picked a menu of “services” provided by educational institutions, but foolishly and stubbornly avoided comprehensive mental health evaluation and chronic treatment for AL. That, IMO, is the most severe negligence displayed, second only to providing him with firearms that he himself would not have been able to purchase.



ACCESS to mental health services was not the issue—active denial and avoidance was the problem that set the stage for the massacre. I believe that if AL had been presented for care, by a parent committed to him receiving care, he would have received very high level care in that region of the country. Denial over more than 10 years was the villain here—by both NL and PL. AL didn’t “suddenly” develop his mental illness in the last 3 years of his life—news reports chronicle at least 13 years of monumentally dysfunctional behaviors, and everyone assumed NL was getting him proper treatment because she was so devoted and involved.



It is this prolonged avoidance of presenting AL for the RIGHT mental health care that set the stage for him to become a “competent” adult on his 18th birthday, when in fact, he was anything but competent in caring for himself. I believe he could have been, and indeed SHOULD have been placed in a guardianship situation before age 18. With his history, I don’t think that would have been difficult at all. Institutionalization is not really an option anymore in the U.S., until someone displays violence, and is CHRONICALLY refractory to care in the community. He needed a team of mental health professionals, and external supervision. Instead, he had a devoted enabler, convinced she knew what was "best" for him. Who provided him with an arsenal of firearms, and indulged his dangerous delusions and fantasies by providing him "privacy", internet connections, and thousands of dollars of violent video games.



The bigger question in my mind, is how do we, as a society, compel mental health treatment for minors, without trampling on the “rights” of the parents to avoid and refuse care? When will it be enough of a public health and safety issue that we begin to talk about compulsory care? How many other disturbed adolescents are brewing and being enabled right now, that need intervention before they shoot up a public space? Why can we take Amish parents and evangelical parents and Christian Scientist parents to court to compel them to present their children with cancer for treatment, but we can’t compel mental health services and family supervision until a disturbed kid (who the entire town knows is deeply disturbed) shoots up a school?? The CPS agencies are so broken and overworked just with garden variety child abuse, drugs, and crime that mental health issues fall off the priority list. And upper class families with disturbed kids are off their radar entirely.



I believe this is a huge public health and safety issue. I don’t know how many more tragedies it will take before we stop just mourning and wringing our hands and DO something about it.



20 first graders and 6 teachers were brutally massacred—and still we tiptoe around political correctness that holds no one but the shooter accountable, and pretends that he was just a bit odd and no one saw it coming. That is complete BS, IMO. This didn’t happen out of the blue—AL was enabled all the way into Sandyhook Elementary. It was preventable. But it’s just so much easier as a society to focus on passing a bunch of new gun regulations, than to admit that this kid was fatally mishandled for a decade or more, leading right up to the carnage. I can feel tremendous pity and empathy for Peter and Nancy Lanza, and still hold them 100% accountable for what Adam did. I’m angry with both of them, even while I pity them. That’s my opinion.



I believe Adam was so mentally ill, and so profoundly damaged emotionally and socially that he was not able to make a competent decision. I don’t care that he could “sequence events” and plan things out—that is not evidence of competent decision making. We just don’t know how tremendously mentally disabled he actually was, because NO ONE made him get comprehensive mental health care. That is the issue for me. Pass all the new gun regulation you want, but it won’t solve the problems that created Adam Lanza and his massacre. If he was hell bent on rampage and massacre, he could have driven a bus into a crowd of kids—the weapon would be different, but the outcome the same.



Had AL lived, I don’t believe he would have been found competent to stand trial.



(Sorry for getting so fired up, lol!)


Why KZ, it looks as though we finally agree totally with each other on this one ;)
Excellent post and my entire sentiments exactly.
 
  • #1,336
One of the things about the discussion of AL that continues to puzzle me is the view expressed by many that he must have been “competent” and “not severely mentally ill” merely because he had not been FORMALLY diagnosed with a slew of Axis I and Axis II disorders.

IMO as a health care provider, what is most prominent is the degree to which formal, comprehensive diagnosis and treatment was AVOIDED by his parents from approximately age 6-17. And yes, I do believe PL bears a substantial amount of responsibility for this avoidance of care while AL was a minor, as well as NL. His mother cherry picked a menu of “services” provided by educational institutions, but foolishly and stubbornly avoided comprehensive mental health evaluation and chronic treatment for AL. That, IMO, is the most severe negligence displayed, second only to providing him with firearms that he himself would not have been able to purchase.

ACCESS to mental health services was not the issue—active denial and avoidance was the problem that set the stage for the massacre. I believe that if AL had been presented for care, by a parent committed to him receiving care, he would have received very high level care in that region of the country. Denial over more than 10 years was the villain here—by both NL and PL. AL didn’t “suddenly” develop his mental illness in the last 3 years of his life—news reports chronicle at least 13 years of monumentally dysfunctional behaviors, and everyone assumed NL was getting him proper treatment because she was so devoted and involved.

It is this prolonged avoidance of presenting AL for the RIGHT mental health care that set the stage for him to become a “competent” adult on his 18th birthday, when in fact, he was anything but competent in caring for himself. I believe he could have been, and indeed SHOULD have been placed in a guardianship situation before age 18. With his history, I don’t think that would have been difficult at all. Institutionalization is not really an option anymore in the U.S., until someone displays violence, and is CHRONICALLY refractory to care in the community. He needed a team of mental health professionals, and external supervision. Instead, he had a devoted enabler, convinced she knew what was "best" for him. Who provided him with an arsenal of firearms, and indulged his dangerous delusions and fantasies by providing him "privacy", internet connections, and thousands of dollars of violent video games.

The bigger question in my mind, is how do we, as a society, compel mental health treatment for minors, without trampling on the “rights” of the parents to avoid and refuse care? When will it be enough of a public health and safety issue that we begin to talk about compulsory care? How many other disturbed adolescents are brewing and being enabled right now, that need intervention before they shoot up a public space? Why can we take Amish parents and evangelical parents and Christian Scientist parents to court to compel them to present their children with cancer for treatment, but we can’t compel mental health services and family supervision until a disturbed kid (who the entire town knows is deeply disturbed) shoots up a school?? The CPS agencies are so broken and overworked just with garden variety child abuse, drugs, and crime that mental health issues fall off the priority list. And upper class families with disturbed kids are off their radar entirely.

I believe this is a huge public health and safety issue. I don’t know how many more tragedies it will take before we stop just mourning and wringing our hands and DO something about it.

20 first graders and 6 teachers were brutally massacred—and still we tiptoe around political correctness that holds no one but the shooter accountable, and pretends that he was just a bit odd and no one saw it coming. That is complete BS, IMO. This didn’t happen out of the blue—AL was enabled all the way into Sandyhook Elementary. It was preventable. But it’s just so much easier as a society to focus on passing a bunch of new gun regulations, than to admit that this kid was fatally mishandled for a decade or more, leading right up to the carnage. I can feel tremendous pity and empathy for Peter and Nancy Lanza, and still hold them 100% accountable for what Adam did. I’m angry with both of them, even while I pity them. That’s my opinion.

I believe Adam was so mentally ill, and so profoundly damaged emotionally and socially that he was not able to make a competent decision. I don’t care that he could “sequence events” and plan things out—that is not evidence of competent decision making. We just don’t know how tremendously mentally disabled he actually was, because NO ONE made him get comprehensive mental health care. That is the issue for me. Pass all the new gun regulation you want, but it won’t solve the problems that created Adam Lanza and his massacre. If he was hell bent on rampage and massacre, he could have driven a bus into a crowd of kids—the weapon would be different, but the outcome the same.

Had AL lived, I don’t believe he would have been found competent to stand trial.

(Sorry for getting so fired up, lol!)

Thanks for saying what I apparently couldn't!
 
  • #1,337
One of the things about the discussion of AL that continues to puzzle me is the view expressed by many that he must have been “competent” and “not severely mentally ill” merely because he had not been FORMALLY diagnosed with a slew of Axis I and Axis II disorders.
<snip>
ACCESS to mental health services was not the issue&#8212;active denial and avoidance was the problem that set the stage for the massacre. I believe that if AL had been presented for care, by a parent committed to him receiving care, he would have received very high level care in that region of the country. Denial over more than 10 years was the villain here&#8212;by both NL and PL. AL didn&#8217;t &#8220;suddenly&#8221; develop his mental illness in the last 3 years of his life&#8212;news reports chronicle at least 13 years of monumentally dysfunctional behaviors, and everyone assumed NL was getting him proper treatment because she was so devoted and involved.

It is this prolonged avoidance of presenting AL for the RIGHT mental health care that set the stage for him to become a &#8220;competent&#8221; adult on his 18th birthday, when in fact, he was anything but competent in caring for himself. I believe he could have been, and indeed SHOULD have been placed in a guardianship situation before age 18. <snip>

The bigger question in my mind, is how do we, as a society, compel mental health treatment for minors, without trampling on the &#8220;rights&#8221; of the parents to avoid and refuse care?

<snip>
And upper class families with disturbed kids are off their radar entirely.

I believe this is a huge public health and safety issue. I don&#8217;t know how many more tragedies it will take before we stop just mourning and wringing our hands and DO something about it.
<snip>

K_Z... I agree with you completely and you said it well. I do think Adam was mentally ill. And, you hit the nail on the head with the delicate issue of compelling mental health care without stepping on the rights of the parents ... it was pretty apparent in Adam's case that there was a long history there that was not being dealt with in a constructive manner. His behavior over years WAS of concern and becoming more so every year that passed.

It definitely is a public concern especially when a mentally ill person is being given gifts of guns on Christmas and a seemingly large amount of money to feed all those habits that were feeding his mental illness. I think Adam could have been helped as you say.
 
  • #1,338
It probably varies from state to state, but I don't think you can have someone involuntarily committed unless you can prove they are a danger to themselves or someone else. And it sounds like his mom would not have been willing to do such a thing, even had she known he was a danger to others. I think with the gun thing she, perhaps naively, thought she had found something that he actually showed a little interest in and it allowed the two of them to spend some time together doing something in common. It sounds like he didn't perk up or get excited over very many things in life and I think she misguidedly thought they were bonding at the shooting range.
The news stories are bizarre that he "would not allow" his mom to decorate the house for holidays. Since when does your dependent child "not allow" you to do something? His mom's life was completely consumed with his care and with not doing anything that would upset him in any way. It must have been a miserable life. I wonder what behaviors he exhibited if she disobeyed his orders. If he became combative or scary in any way then she had to have known he was capable of violence. Even then I highly doubt she could have gotten him involuntarily committed or declared as a dependent adult in order to make all medical/psychiatric decisions for him. This whole story is about one horrible decision after another. He was not a functioning member of society and was incapable of functioning; his mom was a virtual prisoner to him; she did not seek the correct help; the father was too absent although this may have been due to lots of conflict with the mom and difficulty in getting to see his son or having any say-so in his care. Maybe he just threw up his hands and gave up.
Based on all we now know, I cannot believe anyone thought it wise to allow him to have possession of a firearm. The best thing for him would probably have been to live in some type of care facility with the proper medications where at least maybe he could have dealt somewhat with the stimulus of daily living. I tend to believe the mom had some mental issues of her own, and was overly attached to her son, and either feared seeking help for him or she feared Adam himself.
 
  • #1,339
It probably varies from state to state, but I don't think you can have someone involuntarily committed unless you can prove they are a danger to themselves or someone else. And it sounds like his mom would not have been willing to do such a thing, even had she known he was a danger to others. I think with the gun thing she, perhaps naively, thought she had found something that he actually showed a little interest in and it allowed the two of them to spend some time together doing something in common. It sounds like he didn't perk up or get excited over very many things in life and I think she misguidedly thought they were bonding at the shooting range.
The news stories are bizarre that he "would not allow" his mom to decorate the house for holidays. Since when does your dependent child "not allow" you to do something? His mom's life was completely consumed with his care and with not doing anything that would upset him in any way. It must have been a miserable life. I wonder what behaviors he exhibited if she disobeyed his orders. If he became combative or scary in any way then she had to have known he was capable of violence. Even then I highly doubt she could have gotten him involuntarily committed or declared as a dependent adult in order to make all medical/psychiatric decisions for him. This whole story is about one horrible decision after another. He was not a functioning member of society and was incapable of functioning; his mom was a virtual prisoner to him; she did not seek the correct help; the father was too absent although this may have been due to lots of conflict with the mom and difficulty in getting to see his son or having any say-so in his care. Maybe he just threw up his hands and gave up.
Based on all we now know, I cannot believe anyone thought it wise to allow him to have possession of a firearm. The best thing for him would probably have been to live in some type of care facility with the proper medications where at least maybe he could have dealt somewhat with the stimulus of daily living. I tend to believe the mom had some mental issues of her own, and was overly attached to her son, and either feared seeking help for him or she feared Adam himself.

yes, when does a child dictate what the mother does? Perhaps he threatened her with violence? He should have been institutionalized, but yes, she was in denial.
 
  • #1,340
Another thing I meant to mention was that the mom sounds as if she may have had some mental disorders herself which may have led to even more denial about Adam, as she may have been aware that she had problems of her own and was altogether ashamed of mental illness. The "mysterious illness" she supposedly had, is there any proof she actually had it? I'm not suggesting she had Munchausen's or was a hypochondriac but apparently she never named this exact illness which could possibly end up taking her life. Was this a bid for attention? Was the discussions of Adam's problems and how her life revolved around him a bid for attention? Because some things don't add up. She states she had to do daily laundry, cook special food and arrange it on his plate, and basically submit her whole life to Adam, yet many of the articles state she travelled and left him alone for days at a time. If you are really that concerned about your child, do you leave them all alone? If he cannot function without you washing his clothes daily so that he can change multiple times, how can you take vacations without him?
 
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