Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen-#3

[zwiebel]

This news has brought another, so similar horror, right to the front of my mind again. 16 children, mostly five years old, gunned down in Scotland. Along with their brave teacher as she tried to protect them. I had tried to forget this.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/h...shooting-at-them-til-l-they-fell-1341854.html

I know there will be no comfort for the bereaved parents in Connecticut for such a long time, but I hope one day some will be able to make contact with some of those parents in Dunblane. They will truly know what those parents are going through now, and if anybody can offer a shred of hope or the tiniest ray of light for the future, it will be those parents in Scotland. I am sure the people in this small town would reach out with open arms to their cousins aross the ocean in another small town.

Here is an interview with one of the most eloquent of those parents, 10 years on from the tragedy. He says he does not know how he survived, except for the support of family and friends.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2006/feb/12/schools.uk

I wonder if as strangers, we could provide any help for those parents too? A thread where we could just acknowledge the parents' great, great loss in Connecticut, pay tribute to their lost babies, and offer whatever kindness we can to any bereaved parents who might visit?

 

[LolaMoon08]

While initial reports suggested principal Mrs Hochsprung buzzed Lanza into the building - bypassing the newly-installed security system - police have confirmed that the shooter forced his way in.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...acre--dead-fourth-wasnt-school-yesterday.html

Wondering how you force your way ithrough a locked commercial door.

Awaiting more details.

Reports are that he shot out the glass windows at the front entrance (they are usually as large as the doors themselves. Forcefully entering the school.

 

[ami]

This makes the most sense to me at the moment. Mom tried to go back to work (whether son wanted her to or not) and was either refused a position in some way or was going back to work. Son shows up at the school to get into a verbal altercation with staff members (for whatever reason; though it seems to be related to mom in some way). Goes home. Gets into an altercation with mom. Kills mom. Then goes back to the school, blaming them for his killing his mom, and going on a rampage.

Why he turned on the children, I don't know? He obviously came armed to do maximum damage. What I can not understand is what the children/mom connection is? If there was even one?

That makes a lot of sense, considering all we know of how things transpired.

He was apparently smart and a former honor role student, but couldn't finish school and was still living at home full time with Mom, who has to care for him because he's got issues. Did he blame her for that? Did she ever say to him that she wanted to work full time but couldn't because of him? Or did he suspect that himself?

 

[Elley Mae]

Evidence also emerged today that Lanza's rampage began in the office of school principal Dawn Hochsprung while the school intercom was on. It's not clear whether it was turned on to alert the school or whether it was on for morning announcements, but the principal's screams and the cries of children heard throughout the school gave teachers time to take precautions to protect their children.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/connecticut-school-massacre-police-good-evidence-motive/story?id=17981351

Connecticut State Police Lt. Paul Vance, who had compared the investigation to "peeling back the layers of an onion," said the investigation "did produce some very good evidence" about motive, but he would not go into further detail.

He indicated the evidence came from the shooting scene at the school as well as at the home where Lanza's mother, Nancy, was slain.

bbm

 

[miimaa]

If Lanza was trying to buy a gun on Tuesday - where did the money come from?

 

[tlcya]

There are lots of altercations nobody notifies LE about.

Agreed.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

Altercation could mean a lot of things, from an exchange of words to a shoving match. Reasoning, sane people may not recognize the significance of an altercation with one who is not reasoning or sane or even that the person is not reasoning or sane like themselves.

 

[Abby Normal Again]

I'm still trying to catch up after taking time away to sleep, but one thing I see a lot is the question about logistics. This is no longer relevant to this case, since we've been told he gained access by force- but I thought it was interesting none the less.

I'm up at schools a lot, bc I do CASA work. Sometimes I go to schools where the staff doesn't know me. Schools aren't set up to be safe from this kind of attack, IMO. They are set up to prevent non-armed adults from abducting or kidnapping children.

In many towns, the buzzer system is not an identification system. It often does NOTHING for a man with a concealed gun. *Everyone* gets buzzed in. eta- obviously in others they use it differently, it depends how the system is used.

If his guns were showing, sure, they probably would call 911 and not buzz him in. But at most schools I go to, there are enough obstructions (window panes, desks, waiting chairs, etc) that you may not observe a gun. Or in others there is glass he could easily bypass. Even if they had no idea who he was, it would be customary to buzz him in and then see what he needed. Nobody would think twice about buzzing in a male they hadn't seen before. He could be an uncle who IS on the child's release list, he could be a dad who doesn't usually pick his child up, he could be delivering mail, he could be one of the highschoolers sent over for one of the many district programs we run.

The system isn't buzz, get verified, get in- it's buzz, get in, get verified. It keeps unarmed people honest, it does not prevent this kind of evil.

That staff showed a lot bravery trying to stop him and alert others.

 

[Donjeta]

Also HOW did he get to the school on the day of the "altercation"? He drove his mom cars when he did the shooting but did he have a car or driver's license? Not that we have heard of.

If you're planning to shoot lots of kids you probably aren't much worried about breaking the law driving without a licence.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Also heard he was trying to buy a gun 3 days prior....hmmm

I heard that too. Either he didn't have such easy access to mom's guns as we (some) think or he wanted even more firepower.

 

[ami]

If Lanza was trying to buy a gun on Tuesday - where did the money come from?

Wealthy family, so they weren't short of money. He probably had money of his own (gifts, trust, etc) or just took it from his mother.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

There was apparently a glass window next to the door.

That.


It has bothered me that while the buzz-in system was in place and being used - HOW is it that you have a big, glass window right next to the buzz-in point?

I worked a Catholic school a few years back. Buzz-in was at a gate at the end of an open walkway. First (and closest) building was the office and there was visual access on that gate from that building. Plus, you had to walk quite a few yards once buzzed-in - which allowed for "monitoring" the guest as they entered. I felt that was the most secure school building that I have ever worked in.

But to have a big glass window right next to the buzz in point just doesn't make sense - at least to me....



JMHO

 

[Cracka*Jaxx]

This is incorrect info, as it has been confirmed that Adam Lanza either shot the glass window out, or used a piece of glass to break the window, to gain access to the school.

I heard this, also. But this morning the State Police spokesman said that the police broke windows to gain quick access to the school. So, now I'm wondering if the window at the front door was broken by police. Without all the facts, it could easily go either way at this time.

 

[justanother]

NBC apparently spoke with an Aunt that said the parents had issues with Adam in School and he was pulled out to be home schooled, when asked about the guns Nancy kept, she said Nancy had them incase they needed to protect themselves/survive should something happen.

 

[not_my_kids]

I haven't caught up yet. Have they at least removed the kid's bodies yet, or are they still expected to be there awhile? Just curious. I know that no one can begin to heal even a tiny bit until that step occurs.

I saw a video last night of responding officers running full tilt toward the school. And it hit me...tiny community...first responders....how many of them had kids of their own in that school? Nieces, nephews, adult relatives that worked there? They knew what they were running into and they were trying to save the lives of their own friends and families. I don't want to consider whether any of them failed and whether any of them found their own children in those first minutes.

I thought a lot about this last night, and it came to mind that as heartless as it sounds, I would be one of the few parents that would have to know exactly what happened and exactly what my child went through. I would need to know if they stayed in their seat, if they were running away, if there was any indication that they knew what was coming or they were one of the lucky ones that was hit first and didn't have to try to process why that man was there and what he was doing. Not that I would be okay with their body being left in the school any longer than necessary, but if this is what LE had to do, I would accept it.

I thought about the school my son goes to, and their lockdown procedures. They suck. Not the school, the procedures. The theory is that anyone that arrives after 9 a.m. meets with locked doors, and there is only one door that has the button that you can push to be buzzed in. You are supposed to have to hit the button to be buzzed in. I can't tell you how many times I have just walked right in, or pushed the button while looking down at my phone or whatever, and been automatically buzzed in. All they could have seen of me from the camera angle was that I was female and blond. They buzzed me in anyway. The door is often left unlocked, and the gym doors to the outside are opened multiple times a day, including during the lunch hour and when deliveries are being made. During lunch, not only are the students served, but parents and family of staff can come in and buy a lunch and spend time with their kids during lunch. Security is almost nil during that time. The theory is that all visitors will report to the office, the theory is also that people won't want to shoot kids. If someone gets buzzed in or just walks in, the first room they come to is a locked janitorial room. The second and third rooms on opposite sides of the hall are the gym and the auditorium. There is maybe 20 feet between the front door and the gym, the auditorium is right across the hall. Before anyone could react, someone set on harm could be in the gym or auditorium, both of which are huge and wide open spaces. This is before they even reach the office. I know that nowhere is truly safe, and mass shootings happen everywhere, but they happen so much more often in schools, as of present time that we have to start focusing on the schools. FFS, we can use money to sponsor studies on everything including the mating calls of whales, methane production of cows, and hormone levels in pregnant mice that drink coffee, but we can't spare a couple hundred thousand dollars here and there to make sure that our kids are safe or at least safer?

Priorities. This country lost sight of them. And we're going to lose a lot more if we don't get them back.

 

[jjenny]

If Lanza was trying to buy a gun on Tuesday - where did the money come from?

He lives with mother and mother apparently was a recipient of a large amount of alimony. I am not sure why he would need another gun, considering mother had legally registered guns already.

 

[ami]

I'm still trying to catch up after taking time away to sleep, but one thing I see a lot is the question about logistics.

I'm up at schools a lot, bc I do CASA work. Sometimes I go to schools where the staff doesn't know me. Schools aren't set up to be safe from this kind of attack, IMO. They are set up to prevent non-armed adults from abducting or kidnapping children.

The buzzer system is not an identification system. It does NOTHING for a man with a concealed gun. *Everyone* gets buzzed in.

If his guns were showing, sure, they probably would call 911 and not buzz him in. But at most schools I go to, there are enough obstructions (window panes, desks, waiting chairs, etc) that you may not observe a gun. Or in others there is glass he could easily bypass. Even if they had no idea who he was, it would be customary to buzz him in and then see what he needed. Nobody would think twice about buzzing in a male they hadn't seen before. He could be an uncle who IS on the child's release list, he could be a dad who doesn't usually pick his child up, he could be delivering mail, he could be one of the highschoolers sent over for one of the many district programs we run.

The system isn't buzz, get verified, get in- it's buzz, get in, get verified. It keeps unarmed people honest, it does not prevent this kind of evil.

So it doesn't strike me at all weird that he got in. Personally. Also, it completely makes sense that he opened fire on the office staff first in order to get past them to the students. That staff showed a lot bravery trying to stop him and alert others.

I didn't read the details of Sandy Hook's security program - is that how it was? Everyone got buzzed in without question???

It's not like that anywhere that I know of. Here, we have cameras installed at the door and you must show ID and give your name and reason for the visit. Big sign next to the "doorbell" asking you to hold your ID up to the camera and then ring the bell.

I'd be surprised if the new security system they installed allowed for 100% access to anyone who buzzed - what would the point of that be?

 

[jjenny]

I didn't read the details of Sandy Hook's security program - is that how it was? Everyone got buzzed in without question???

It's not like that anywhere that I know of. Here, we have cameras installed at the door and you must show ID and give your name and reason for the visit. Big sign next to the "doorbell" asking you to hold your ID up to the camera and then ring the bell.

I'd be surprised if the new security system they installed allowed for 100% access to anyone who buzzed - what would the point of that be?

We already know the school didn't buzz him in-he forced his way in.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

But if they would check info instead of trying to be the first ones with the big scoop, there would be much less inaccurate reporting.

Yes this would be the ideal situation. However when the news is coming fast and furious, it is next to impossible to vett every single piece of information. When news is happening faster then you can report it, it is hard to know what is accurate, and what is not. I don't blame the media for this very fact. We have seen this happen over several news stories, 9/11, Caylee Anthony, other mass shootings, heck Giffords was reported dead, before it was corrected.

Media has a job to do. And that is to get the news out as quick as they can. Yes they SHOULD ensure that it is correct, however when time does not allow this they need to do whatever they can to ensure the public is kept up to date, and ensure the public that they are safe.

And it does not help if LE gives inaccurate information. They rely on LE to give them CORRECT info, so when the police give inaccurate info it is not easy for them to correct it.

No one is perfect, Police, Victims, Media all make mistakes. It is bound to happen.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

WHo said "snail's pace"? Verifying information should be a given, however long it takes.

I'd rather experience a 24 hour delay to hear the truth than get complete misinformation within 60 minutes. Our society would be far better if more people felt the same.

Even if the public is in danger??? I beg to differ!

 

[LolaMoon08]

NBC apparently spoke with an Aunt that said the parents had issues with Adam in School and he was pulled out to be home schooled, when asked about the guns Nancy kept, she said Nancy had them incase they needed to protect themselves/survive should something happen.

I can understand the mother being fearful of her own son. I've seen it many, many times. There was a case here where a wealthy mother (author), after many many violent encounters with her son and trying everything to get him the mental health treatment he needed and not getting any help from anyone (she tried so hard) had to kick the son out of her home in order to protect herself and her younger chilldren. Thankfully for her, he did leave. Unfortunately, he went out and brutally murdered a 17-year-old girl and an elderly man (two separate incidents) shortly after.

There are a lot of questions about NL, but I have seen mothers who have tried, almost to their death, to get their children (young or adult) help and they are turned away at every door.

I am also not sure if AL had such easy access to these guns. He tried to buy a gun 3 days ago. Which makes me think he didn't have such easy access.

However, I do not understand the assault rifle.