Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #4

[DaisyMaesMama]

@annemc2 just pulling from my memory but they found that some/a piece of the perpetrators clothing had been washed in hard water while most of Japan uses soft water.

I dont remember if the TMPD has this stated anywhere or where the info comes from. Would be great if someone knows more where this comes from and can link

Did a little searching and there is a discussion of the hard water in 2022 - linked post below that’s part of the discussion. Great memory @annemc2
Post in thread 'Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000'

***in case I didn’t link to the post properly; it’s 174 of this thread.

 

[Incoherent]

I had a chance to watch the episode on the case that @Eliver linked, though not super in-depth as I’m away from Tokyo right now. I’ll be able to watch again more closely later.
It provided some clarification on exactly what was found in the hip bag and pockets of the clothing.

In the hip bag there was:
- sand from the desert in Southwestern USA
- traces of monazite
- traces of barium titanate (can anyone provide context on what and why this might be?)

In the pockets of the jacket there was:
- sand from the Miura Peninsula
- traces of bird droppings (potentially a sparrow)
- traces of leaves from a zelkova (Japanese elm) tree

It is worth noting this NHK documentary was done in collaboration with the TMPD and the information presented is from them. I believe this is the first time they have said there definitely was sand from the US in the hip bag.

Near the end the presenters say people that visited Korea are still being looked at.

 

[Bobban]

@Incoherent barium titanate is used in capacitors that are in electronics so most probably the owner of the hip bag kept a cellphone, music player or something similair in it. I'm not sure if the electronic device has to be broken or crushed for barium titanate to escape from inside the phone, maybe simply removing the back to change battery on an old phone could transfer barium titanate.

It's also in electromechanical transducers which seems to be in everything that converts energy into physical action, the examples I found online are mics, speakers, generators and motors. Unlikely the owner of the hip bag fit a generator in it but perhaps a mechanic could transfer it into the bag from work.

 

[Bobban]

Can't find anything online about monazite that isn't referring to it as "a rich source for rare earth elements" so I'm gonna assume that's the by far biggest usage (electronics). The way I understand it it's only used as a source for rare earth elements which are extracted from monazite mineral that is found in some sands. It can be found in the Mojave desert sand, so i don't know how they tell the monazite apart from the Southwestern USA desert sand(???)

 

[Frankie Hellis]

There was a lengthy interview with Tsuchida san (the ex-chief of the case) released earlier today.
Surprisingly in it he focuses on and mentions a lot about the foreigner angle.
I’ll leave some quotes from the article here that he makes.

Of the culprit he says “he’s (perhaps) not Japanese”, “the way he killed was not like a person who received Japanese education or culture”, “it feels like a foreigner”. He talks about the way in which they were killed, as the culprit used more of a “cutting” motion to scar the family and make them bleed rather than a “stabbing” motion.
Since the culprit brought the yanagiba knife he says there was an “intention to murder” the family.
Due to the culprit hanging around and not rushing to leave, checking drawers, handbags, eating, and using the computer, he says the culprit was acting in a “farewell Japan” way. “I will leave Japan so the police won’t catch me”. He says the culprit has likely done something before this murder as well.
He says that it’s likely the culprit was watching the house and knew about the condition of it, such as it being two houses instead of one even though it’s connected. He says he was likely watching the light from the ground floor where Mikio was using the computer before making his move to enter the house.

He reiterates the motive of the murder is unknown even to him, but that since he believes there is possibility of it being a foreigner he admits there may be a thought pattern he hasn’t considered as someone Japanese.

The condition of the house that night is something I’ve been looking at the last few days as well as I had noticed the blinds on the ground floor where Mikio was on the computer were not drawn.
The evening after when the police were still in there it looked like this:
View attachment 633806View attachment 633807

As you can see it’s very easy to see right inside and to know that the rest of the family had gone and it was only Mikio left. Screen caps from ANN News.

It is interesting that after the TMPD investigator said that the Miura Peninsula could be connected and foreigners as well, Tsuchida san is now also doing full interviews about it.

Article on Abema Times.

Perhaps he knew exactly where Mikio was which afforded him the opportunity to enter upstairs without immediately encountering his number one threat.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Can't find anything online about monazite that isn't referring to it as "a rich source for rare earth elements" so I'm gonna assume that's the by far biggest usage (electronics). The way I understand it it's only used as a source for rare earth elements which are extracted from monazite mineral that is found in some sands. It can be found in the Mojave desert sand, so i don't know how they tell the monazite apart from the Southwestern USA desert sand(???)

I don't think connected but I find this interesting and unsure if Monazite is part of this but by the photo, possibly?

I think a tidbit that I found interesting was the info about the island (an its waters) that I'll add below the article as well - is connected to military (airfield) and WW2.

[TOKYO] Deep beneath the waters off Japan’s easternmost island of Minamitorishima lies what scientists have described as a “semi-infinite” trove of rare earths that can last the world for centuries.

The snag is that they are costly and difficult to mine because of the deep depths of the sea – expected to be up to 6,000m below the ocean surface – around Minamitorishima. Rare earths refer to 17 metallic elements that are needed to manufacture everything from electric vehicles (EVs), aircraft engines and wind turbines to medical lasers, semiconductors and military weapons systems. They are classified by atomic weight as “light”, “medium” or “heavy” and, generally, they are more valuable the heavier they are.

But scientists have noted that the mineral deposits in waters around Minamitorishima, a remote atoll nearly 2,000km south-east of Tokyo in the north-western Pacific, contain far higher concentrations of heavy and medium rare earths than in China.

Japan has boundless supply of rare earths that can blunt China’s dominance but are costly to mine

Japan is aware of the technical challenges of mining at depths of up to 6,000m below sea level Read more at The Business Times.

www.businesstimes.com.sg

No civilians live there, except personnel of the Japan Meteorological Agency, Japan Self-Defense Forces (JSDF), and Japan Coast Guard serving temporary tours of duty on the island. The island is off limits to civilians except for Japan Meteorological Agency staff, although reporters, documentary makers, and scientific researchers can sometimes get an entry permit. No commercial boat tours or flights visit the island, and civilians are currently not allowed access to Minamitorishima for tours or sightseeing, due to its use by the JSDF as an observation station.
Historically, a meteorological station and airfield were established there in 1935 by the Imperial Japanese Navy; during World War II, it endured U.S. air attacks, and post-war administration shifted to the United States until reversion to Japan in 1968.

Minamitorishima - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Lalalacasbah]

With this new info I can't figure out the bird and bird droppings, except that the killer grabbed a bird to hide/carry in his pocket? Perhaps he had it in his hand, squeezed or held too tight and it got scared and left droppings?

Animals poop when nervous or scared. I had an awful thought about animal cruelty and the killer too Could he have harmed animals before moving to humans?

What if the killer wasn't as young as high school age and was college/university age? Would a military brat be going to college/university in Japan? Maybe they were studying earth/ocean sciences or geology/biology or ?

All these things found are intriguing. Thanks so much for sharing!

 

[Incoherent]

With this new info I can't figure out the bird and bird droppings, except that the killer grabbed a bird to hide/carry in his pocket? Perhaps he had it in his hand, squeezed or held too tight and it got scared and left droppings?

Animals poop when nervous or scared. I had an awful thought about animal cruelty and the killer too Could he have harmed animals before moving to humans?

What if the killer wasn't as young as high school age and was college/university age? Would a military brat be going to college/university in Japan? Maybe they were studying earth/ocean sciences or geology/biology or ?

All these things found are intriguing. Thanks so much for sharing!

To me it just sounds like he was hiding in bushes or around/climbing trees and got leaves and droppings in his jacket. From the report the droppings seem to be of a very minuscule amount, so likely just residue from the leaves? I feel like it wasn’t deliberate that it got into his pocket but just due to what he was doing at the time. If he’s hiding around places and watching people it makes sense.

Zelkova trees are common but a place that has a significant amount of them famous for viewing is Kichijoji. That area happens to be where Ann Irie went to a religious, bilingual English/Japanese University with a sizeable foreign faculty. I found that interesting.

 

[Bobban]

To me it just sounds like he was hiding in bushes or around/climbing trees and got leaves and droppings in his jacket. From the report the droppings seem to be of a very minuscule amount, so likely just residue from the leaves? I feel like it wasn’t deliberate that it got into his pocket but just due to what he was doing at the time. If he’s hiding around places and watching people it makes sense.

Zelkova trees are common but a place that has a significant amount of them famous for viewing is Kichijoji. That area happens to be where Ann Irie went to a religious, bilingual English/Japanese University with a sizeable foreign faculty. I found that interesting.

I could imagine park benches, bikes stored outside or sitting on rocks are easy ways someone could get bird dropping transfer on their hands and then put their hands into their pockets.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

It's also in electromechanical transducers which seems to be in everything that converts energy into physical action, the examples I found online are mics, speakers, generators and motors. Unlikely the owner of the hip bag fit a generator in it but perhaps a mechanic could transfer it into the bag from work.

RSBM and bolded by me ^^^: another nagging thing I forgot to mention earlier - the mention of possible mechanic... again, back to that car connection too! But I think I'm over analyzing it all lol

 

[Lalalacasbah]

To me it just sounds like he was hiding in bushes or around/climbing trees and got leaves and droppings in his jacket. From the report the droppings seem to be of a very minuscule amount, so likely just residue from the leaves? I feel like it wasn’t deliberate that it got into his pocket but just due to what he was doing at the time. If he’s hiding around places and watching people it makes sense.

Zelkova trees are common but a place that has a significant amount of them famous for viewing is Kichijoji. That area happens to be where Ann Irie went to a religious, bilingual English/Japanese University with a sizeable foreign faculty. I found that interesting.

Ok I see, ya maybe contamination from other things. But I still find it very odd and a head scratcher as is sounds very particular to even mention, no? I can't think of a case where bird droppings was mentioned (but maybe they pick and choose what they release).

I have to wonder the relevance? Why would TMPD even release that tidbit at all? Is it relevant to trigger tips? No idea, it's just so weird to me!

Funny story... About 5 years ago a bird pooped on my car, my window was open and some spatter got on my arm and a bit on my shirt. It was nasty! I could not believe how strong the smell was!!!

I had no idea how strong and lingering the smell was. I am assuming the dropping in the jacket were dried though. I rarely see bird droppings where I live except on the sidewalk and on cars. I don't recall seeing it on leaves... And most people wouldn't touch it with there hands except by accident as you can get really sick from it.

Are you all thinking he got that contamination that night? While hiding in the bush and tress before the crime? Or climbing something on the house, might've gotten on his hands? I find this info so curious!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I could imagine park benches, bikes stored outside or sitting on rocks are easy ways someone could get bird dropping transfer on their hands and then put their hands into their pockets.

Good point, park benches too actually. I could only think of sidewalks and cars where I've really noticed droppings, but definitely park benches as well!

 

[Incoherent]

Ok I see, ya maybe contamination from other things. But I still find it very odd and a head scratcher as is sounds very particular to even mention, no? I can't think of a case where bird droppings was mentioned (but maybe they pick and choose what they release).

I have to wonder the relevance? Why would TMPD even release that tidbit at all? Is it relevant to trigger tips? No idea, it's just so weird to me!

Funny story... About 5 years ago a bird pooped on my car, my window was open and some spatter got on my arm and a bit on my shirt. It was nasty! I could not believe how strong the smell was!!!

I had no idea how strong and lingering the smell was. I am assuming the dropping in the jacket were dried though. I rarely see bird droppings where I live except on the sidewalk and on cars. I don't recall seeing it on leaves... And most people wouldn't touch it with there hands except by accident as you can get really sick from it.

Are you all thinking he got that contamination that night? While hiding in the bush and tress before the crime? Or climbing something on the house, might've gotten on his hands? I find this info so curious!

Most likely to jog people’s memories. When I read of zelkova trees in the report I thought of the large concentration of them in Kichijoji, and others might too and cast their mind back and remember something. Kichijoji was also where a lone person bought the knife by itself too, but he was ruled out. It’s also next to Ogikubo. Don’t you feel like it could all be connected somehow? But I’m just riffing here.

As for the jacket itself, it was sold only from October 2000. Zelkova being deciduous would have leaves falling from mid November - early December in the Tokyo area. It narrows down the time a bit to when and where he might have been. It is a very common tree though. Since it’s been heavily suggested he was watching the house it could indicate that to get traces of those leaves in his pocket he had to have been watching from a much earlier date than perhaps just a few days before, for example. All the leaves would be dead on the ground by then.

 

[annemc2]

It seems like they are releasing even the tiniest clues - like sand particles and bird droppings! Sparrows and similar primary seed-eaters usually have small, dry droppings. Like others have said, transfer of these droppings from object (bench, fence post, railing, tree) to hand to pocket could happen easily and there may be only a miniscule amount.

I have a pet sparrow in my living room and his poop consists of small and usually dry particles. My doves and pigeons (outside, also primarily seed-eaters) have either wet splats (sorry) or small curled dry droppings. When I had pet starlings, their droppings were larger, more voluminous, and waaaaay grosser-smelling. As omnivores who were fed primarily protein (cat food), their waste was much more offensive (think horse vs. dog poop).

I hope that you have all appreciated my ted talk on bird droppings! But seriously, in my own tiny neighborhood there is a great variation in bird distribution. Oddly I don't have sparrows, starlings, or eurasian collared doves in my yard, but there are large flocks right down the street. Our yard is in a more forested area and has more trees than the plots of land down the road. I'd be more likely to encounter sparrow droppings downtown than I would in my own yard (excepting the living room bird haha).

So if one pays careful attention, there might be some sort of miniscule geographical clue. (note - I pay attention due to being over 50. Bird interest is a requirement to join Club Old and not something I would have ever noticed when I was younger. At all.)

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Most likely to jog people’s memories. When I read of zelkova trees in the report I thought of the large concentration of them in Kichijoji, and others might too and cast their mind back and remember something. Kichijoji was also where a lone person bought the knife by itself too, but he was ruled out. It’s also next to Ogikubo. Don’t you feel like it could all be connected somehow? But I’m just riffing here.

As for the jacket itself, it was sold only from October 2000. Zelkova being deciduous would have leaves falling from mid November - early December in the Tokyo area. It narrows down the time a bit to when and where he might have been. It is a very common tree though. Since it’s been heavily suggested he was watching the house it could indicate that to get traces of those leaves in his pocket he had to have been watching from a much earlier date than perhaps just a few days before, for example. All the leaves would be dead on the ground by then.

Fascinating that it helps possibly break down the timeline and he possibly could have been watching the house longer. This doesn't surprise me if the case. No way was this crime 'too random', so I can definitely see that happening MOO

And I the knife connection with that area, how can that be coincidence?!

I hope they looked into that person's large net of people he was connected to (even acquaintances, coworkers, extended family, etc.) in case the knife was stolen from him. I wish we knew his age and demographics.

Was he a young guy that had pals over to his house and someone scooped the knife to be traced to him for the crime and set him up kinda thing? Was the guy working in the restaurant industry as a chef and brought his knife to work and a coworker or customer grabbed it? I imagine that man would report it stolen unless he was scared to be blamed for the heinous crime.

I do think this released tidbits have to be connected otherwise police wouldn't have dropped the info, so hoping tips or some fresh brainstorming by investigators happens.

 

[SteveL]

A tennis ball is what picked everything up. As a tennis player, it’s aggravating how felt on a tennis ball almost acts like a swifter mop on the court. It pick up sand, dirt, leaves, bird droppings, etc., even candy wrappers. The killer’s hip bag most probably was used to hold tennis balls, and that’s how those things ended up in there.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

It seems like they are releasing even the tiniest clues - like sand particles and bird droppings! Sparrows and similar primary seed-eaters usually have small, dry droppings. Like others have said, transfer of these droppings from object (bench, fence post, railing, tree) to hand to pocket could happen easily and there may be only a miniscule amount.

I have a pet sparrow in my living room and his poop consists of small and usually dry particles. My doves and pigeons (outside, also primarily seed-eaters) have either wet splats (sorry) or small curled dry droppings. When I had pet starlings, their droppings were larger, more voluminous, and waaaaay grosser-smelling. As omnivores who were fed primarily protein (cat food), their waste was much more offensive (think horse vs. dog poop).

I hope that you have all appreciated my ted talk on bird droppings! But seriously, in my own tiny neighborhood there is a great variation in bird distribution. Oddly I don't have sparrows, starlings, or eurasian collared doves in my yard, but there are large flocks right down the street. Our yard is in a more forested area and has more trees than the plots of land down the road. I'd be more likely to encounter sparrow droppings downtown than I would in my own yard (excepting the living room bird haha).

So if one pays careful attention, there might be some sort of miniscule geographical clue. (note - I pay attention due to being over 50. Bird interest is a requirement to join Club Old and not something I would have ever noticed when I was younger. At all.)

That is so neat you have a pet sparrow and birds! So interesting! And very good info about the difference in droppings.

Haha about the smell you mention with the starlings, I can vouch for that raunchy smell. I took my bird poop incident as good luck and went and bought a lotto ticket after The bird that got me and my car was a seagull, lots where I live in an ocean town.

I never thought of someone having the bird as a pet as opposed to picking up traces from a public/outdoor greenery space or park or whatever. This is an angle to keep in mind if killer had a family with a pet sparrow. You mentioned the droppings might be more encountered in a city too possibly, that could be the case here as well.

Do our friends in Japan know, would it be a thing in Japan for people to have a pet sparrow in their home? Is there laws about this or anything culture that would prevent this?

And yes, love these bird tips and Ted talk - it's all very insightful

 

[Lalalacasbah]

A tennis ball is what picked everything up. As a tennis player, it’s aggravating how felt on a tennis ball almost acts like a swifter mop on the court. It pick up sand, dirt, leaves, bird droppings, etc., even candy wrappers. The killer’s hip bag most probably was used to hold tennis balls, and that’s how those things ended up in there.

I read your post after my other two long posts/replies. That is so true and could be it for sure, tennis balls do pick up lots of debris.

Would they not have found traces of felt in his pockets too then? I can't remember if they did. Or could have been the 'transferable' object too I suppose somehow. I think the bird droppings were found in the jacket pocket not the hip bag.

 

[Bobban]

It seems like they are releasing even the tiniest clues - like sand particles and bird droppings! Sparrows and similar primary seed-eaters usually have small, dry droppings. Like others have said, transfer of these droppings from object (bench, fence post, railing, tree) to hand to pocket could happen easily and there may be only a miniscule amount.

I have a pet sparrow in my living room and his poop consists of small and usually dry particles. My doves and pigeons (outside, also primarily seed-eaters) have either wet splats (sorry) or small curled dry droppings. When I had pet starlings, their droppings were larger, more voluminous, and waaaaay grosser-smelling. As omnivores who were fed primarily protein (cat food), their waste was much more offensive (think horse vs. dog poop).

I hope that you have all appreciated my ted talk on bird droppings! But seriously, in my own tiny neighborhood there is a great variation in bird distribution. Oddly I don't have sparrows, starlings, or eurasian collared doves in my yard, but there are large flocks right down the street. Our yard is in a more forested area and has more trees than the plots of land down the road. I'd be more likely to encounter sparrow droppings downtown than I would in my own yard (excepting the living room bird haha).

So if one pays careful attention, there might be some sort of miniscule geographical clue. (note - I pay attention due to being over 50. Bird interest is a requirement to join Club Old and not something I would have ever noticed when I was younger. At all.)

I was just hoping someone with bird droppings knowledge would somehow find this thread and go into detail, I was doubting someone like that existed here but crowd sourcing knowledge is really an amazing thing. I have two bunnies who eat more than 90% hay, their poop are round and dry and crumble under the slightest pressure into what looks like wood chippings. Would a sparrow's (or similair bird's) droppings crumble like that as opposed to seagulls that are wet and when dry are hard to remove (transfer)? If so I'd imagine a majority of outdoor places to have indirect trace amounts of sparrow (or similair) droppings.

 

[annemc2]

I was just hoping someone with bird droppings knowledge would somehow find this thread and go into detail, I was doubting someone like that existed here but crowd sourcing knowledge is really an amazing thing. I have two bunnies who eat more than 90% hay, their poop are round and dry and crumble under the slightest pressure into what looks like wood chippings. Would a sparrow's (or similair bird's) droppings crumble like that as opposed to seagulls that are wet and when dry are hard to remove (transfer)? If so I'd imagine a majority of outdoor places to have indirect trace amounts of sparrow (or similair) droppings.

Ha! Right!? I was thinking the same thing. Crowdsourcing can be so amazing. Like, ooh boy I get to talk about bird poop! You are correct about the crumbly texture of the sparrow droppings compared to something like a gull. My pet pigeons have way more runny/splatty droppings than their dove counterparts even though they eat the exact same diet. I used to have pet house bunnies, too! Love them. Won't mention cecotropes baahahaa! The tennis ball transfer is interesting.