Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #4

[Lalalacasbah]

Hi,

Yes I'm aware that this is the prevailing theory but I've seen a lot of people asking even in this thread about the clothes looking like they were staged or the person couldn't have visited Korea because of fingerprinting, or how could a teenager get back home at this hour without a driver's license unnoticed and I was trying to point out why these things could still point to the main theory. Maybe I missed some things in the previous threads but my motivation was putting together all of the details that also lead me to the main theory, which I haven't seen all in one place in the threads.

It's still fair for some/all of us to discuss what we know and ideas on this thread as some of us aren't privy to private conversations or private information that a select few may know that can't be discussed on this public thread.

That's what this forum is for - discussion, theorizing, ideas, fleshing things out... and repeat info and theories happen in EVERY thread and case on Websleuths, you're not the only one

I am one of the few who pondered perhaps the whole outfit was bought as a red herring to perform the crime in and dispose of after and "leave clues" and point to a certain demographic of suspects. I haven't ruled that out lol...

BUT as you mentioned with cologne being pricey that aligns with possibly pricey or trendy clothes - it might be overboard for a killer to think that far or in depth of a costume unless he's Zodiac lol... Still good discussions regardless!

 

[Eliver]

Later tonight will mark the 25th anniversary of the murders.

In the meantime, the Tokyo Shinbun published an article putting together some words from An Irie and the usual recap of the case.

未解決のまま25年　「なんとしても手がかりを」…願い続ける被害者遺族の胸中は　世田谷一家4人殺害事件：東京新聞デジタル

東京都世田谷区の住宅で宮沢みきおさん＝当時（44）、妻の泰子さん＝同（41）、長女にいなさん＝同（8）、長男礼さん＝同（6）＝の一家4...

www.tokyo-np.co.jp

Nothing new but one thing stood out to me:

It says that on the 25th a man was taking a break from work in the park and saw another man just casually climbing the fence and taking pictures of the house.
Just earlier this month - on the 13th to be precise - we know someone broke into the house, but this testimony above just makes me wonder how much the police is actually enforcing the perimeter of the place, especially after that break in of 12 days prior.

Also, the choice of words used by the man to describe who he saw climbing and taking those pictures perplexes me as he refers to him as a 白人男性 which means "white man", a very specific thing to say, especially in Japan, meaning he was a foreigner perhaps?

All the above to say that it is clear to me the house attracts many people, especially around the time of the anniversary, and the police seem a bit too relaxed about it IMHO

User @Incoherent knows the area better than me and also took pictures of the house but never to the point of climbing the fence or being too close to it and maybe can explain it better

 

[Incoherent]

Later tonight will mark the 25th anniversary of the murders.

In the meantime, the Tokyo Shinbun published an article putting together some words from An Irie and the usual recap of the case.

未解決のまま25年　「なんとしても手がかりを」…願い続ける被害者遺族の胸中は　世田谷一家4人殺害事件：東京新聞デジタル

東京都世田谷区の住宅で宮沢みきおさん＝当時（44）、妻の泰子さん＝同（41）、長女にいなさん＝同（8）、長男礼さん＝同（6）＝の一家4...

www.tokyo-np.co.jp

Nothing new but one thing stood out to me:

It says that on the 25th a man was taking a break from work in the park and saw another man just casually climbing the fence and taking pictures of the house.
Just earlier this month - on the 13th to be precise - we know someone broke into the house, but this testimony above just makes me wonder how much the police is actually enforcing the perimeter of the place, especially after that break in of 12 days prior.

Also, the choice of words used by the man to describe who he saw climbing and taking those pictures perplexes me as he refers to him as a 白人男性 which means "white man", a very specific thing to say, especially in Japan, meaning he was a foreigner perhaps?

All the above to say that it is clear to me the house attracts many people, especially around the time of the anniversary, and the police seem a bit too relaxed about it IMHO

User @Incoherent knows the area better than me and also took pictures of the house but never to the point of climbing the fence or being too close to it and maybe can explain it better

Thanks for the link @Eliver

We know from the recent break in that the CCTV around the house are not likely to be live feeds, or at the very least are not monitored because the scene was discovered by a patrolling police officer spotting the glass and broken window when approaching the house.
The area itself can get incredibly busy and from my own experience of being there multiple people walk up to the house to look, and recently record a video or take a picture to upload to social media too. The neighbours across the river still watch the house and generally report to police when someone is lingering too close or acting oddly.

The description of 白人男性 can be quite broad but in this sense he is likely describing someone he believes to have been a western or white male climbing the fence to take photos. It wouldn’t surprise me with the recent tourism boom in Tokyo that a keen tourist that knows of the case has come to the neighbourhood to take pictures. He’ll likely have finished his holiday and left Japan by the time the police track him if so. If not he can perhaps expect a visit at his home in the near future.

 

[Incoherent]

Re: clothes, besides the Uniqlo jacket none of them were new and were well used. It was reported the raglan in particular had been washed many times and the scarf was very frayed. IMO the clothing was not selected specifically for the murder in the sense that he went and bought it for that purpose because of this, but I don’t necessarily 100% believe that all of it was his. There is a chance something may not have been.

 

[Incoherent]

There was a lengthy interview with Tsuchida san (the ex-chief of the case) released earlier today.
Surprisingly in it he focuses on and mentions a lot about the foreigner angle.
I’ll leave some quotes from the article here that he makes.

Of the culprit he says “he’s (perhaps) not Japanese”, “the way he killed was not like a person who received Japanese education or culture”, “it feels like a foreigner”. He talks about the way in which they were killed, as the culprit used more of a “cutting” motion to scar the family and make them bleed rather than a “stabbing” motion.
Since the culprit brought the yanagiba knife he says there was an “intention to murder” the family.
Due to the culprit hanging around and not rushing to leave, checking drawers, handbags, eating, and using the computer, he says the culprit was acting in a “farewell Japan” way. “I will leave Japan so the police won’t catch me”. He says the culprit has likely done something before this murder as well.
He says that it’s likely the culprit was watching the house and knew about the condition of it, such as it being two houses instead of one even though it’s connected. He says he was likely watching the light from the ground floor where Mikio was using the computer before making his move to enter the house.

He reiterates the motive of the murder is unknown even to him, but that since he believes there is possibility of it being a foreigner he admits there may be a thought pattern he hasn’t considered as someone Japanese.

The condition of the house that night is something I’ve been looking at the last few days as well as I had noticed the blinds on the ground floor where Mikio was on the computer were not drawn.
The evening after when the police were still in there it looked like this:

As you can see it’s very easy to see right inside and to know that the rest of the family had gone and it was only Mikio left. Screen caps from ANN News.

It is interesting that after the TMPD investigator said that the Miura Peninsula could be connected and foreigners as well, Tsuchida san is now also doing full interviews about it.

Article on Abema Times.

 

[Eliver]

Of the culprit he says “he’s (perhaps) not Japanese”, “the way he killed was not like a person who received Japanese education or culture”, “it feels like a foreigner”.

About this particular bit I have a vague memory he also mentioned it in Faceless Podcast.
He was very specific about this whole thing of being a person "not of Japanese education or culture"

That being said, while the blinds could have been left like this there is also the possibility they were open by the police later.

In any case, very interesting insight.

Ex chief Tsuchida has released various interviews these past few days and has expressed regret about not being able to solve it while he was still in charge of the investigation.

 

[Incoherent]

That being said, while the blinds could have been left like this there is also the possibility they were open by the police later.

In any case, very interesting insight.

RSBM: it could be, but if you look back to the aerial footage before the blue sheet is up and the police enter, the blinds are not drawn and only halfway down then too.

Regardless, it would have been obvious from outside that both sides of the houses had people still awake at the time he decided to enter.

 

[Incoherent]

I would also like to add some images from Google Earth in 2009 of the kid’s park entrance just behind the house of the apartments that were there. It is reported on time and time again (even now in the end of year articles) that the area around the house was totally isolated, but it in fact was not. There were only a few houses on the plot, but there were several apartments still there.

Bonus: some weird graffiti I found close to the house in a few different places. I cannot make out what it says though.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Thanks for the link @Eliver

We know from the recent break in that the CCTV around the house are not likely to be live feeds, or at the very least are not monitored because the scene was discovered by a patrolling police officer spotting the glass and broken window when approaching the house.
The area itself can get incredibly busy and from my own experience of being there multiple people walk up to the house to look, and recently record a video or take a picture to upload to social media too. The neighbours across the river still watch the house and generally report to police when someone is lingering too close or acting oddly.

The description of 白人男性 can be quite broad but in this sense he is likely describing someone he believes to have been a western or white male climbing the fence to take photos. It wouldn’t surprise me with the recent tourism boom in Tokyo that a keen tourist that knows of the case has come to the neighbourhood to take pictures. He’ll likely have finished his holiday and left Japan by the time the police track him if so. If not he can perhaps expect a visit at his home in the near future.

I wonder if any photos or media will show up in any new YouTube videos covering this case! Could be a crime doc personality that went to snoop around. No idea though, just guessing.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Re: clothes, besides the Uniqlo jacket none of them were new and were well used. It was reported the raglan in particular had been washed many times and the scarf was very frayed. IMO the clothing was not selected specifically for the murder in the sense that he went and bought it for that purpose because of this, but I don’t necessarily 100% believe that all of it was his. There is a chance something may not have been.

Thanks for this info, I don't recall hearing that before or maybe I forgot as I tend to have a hard time logging all the details of cases!

I didn't realize the clothes were stated as well worn, definitely good to know. And sounds like no way these types of clothes were from a thrift store... doesn't sound likely thrifting is a big thing in Japan? My friends (skateboarder types) were big into thrifting from 1993 into the 2000s but doesn't sound like this is the case here.

 

[Eliver]

Thanks for this info, I don't recall hearing that before or maybe I forgot as I tend to have a hard time logging all the details of cases!

I didn't realize the clothes were stated as well worn, definitely good to know. And sounds like no way these types of clothes were from a thrift store... doesn't sound likely thrifting is a big thing in Japan? My friends (skateboarder types) were big into thrifting from 1993 into the 2000s but doesn't sound like this is the case here.

Thrifting is indeed a thing here, there are shops like Hard Off and many others that also sell second-hand clothes among other things. I myself use them regularly and Japanese people are regulars as well.

Just not sure how big it was in 2000?

However yes the clothes were confirmed to be well worn.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Thrifting is indeed a thing here, there are shops like Hard Off and many others that also sell second-hand clothes among other things. I myself use them regularly and Japanese people are regulars as well.

Just not sure how big it was in 2000?

However yes the clothes were confirmed to be well worn.

Hhmm ya, I'm trying to remember the 2000s. I was living in Vancouver, BC then in my mid-20s and thrifting was a thing with certain crowds/demographics then. I was actually thinking about opening up my own vintage clothing shop while in college, but didn't happen. This was just before 2000 I think though, I think just before pre-millenial times (2000).

*Sorry, long post... Basically me thinking out loud*:

There is thrift store and vintage, kind of the same but not totally. I categorize thrift as being on a budget, catering to personal style, a little more anti-brand/anti-trend/materialism kinda thing maybe. It was a bit against the grain.

Vintage (to me) was more collector, specific eras and materials (30s-50s with specific tailoring or fabrics, hard to find items) or could be a bit of a status thing with brands specific (vintage Levis, running shoes, brands that represent an idea or culture).

I remember going to Hawaii on a vacation as well around those years and was told how trendy the thrift/vintage clothing stores were there especially with the Japanese and how they loved buying vintage Americana type clothes, so the prices were marked up more. I do remember hearing the Japanese loved their vintage American.

But getting back to this story! The clothes in question do not sound like desirable thrifted clothing back then. I did not live in Japan or Korea though, but now after my long post of thinking "out loud" do not think the clothes described would be the type found in a thrift store. Thrift stores back then didn't have trendy, stylish, newer clothes at least from my experience here in North America.

The clothes do sound like a person who was up and up on trends and they were likely new and worn as mentioned.

The cologne too, interesting clue too if you ask me. Seems more a trend seeker, someone wanting to fit it, into appearances and image. The skateboarders I hung out with did not wear cologne, that would be cheesy.

As mentioned that scene (from my experience) was more anti-trends, so the killer sounds like he was into trends/looking good, image orientated, likely had money hence didn't need to rob really, likely looked after himself, maybe kept in shape (to scale the window and physical endurance for the crime) and didn't worry at all about his clothes being left behind as he didn't value them (because he had money or access to more clothes). All MOO JMO

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Today marks one-quarter century since the Miyazawa family were murdered. I know the regulars in this thread often think of them, not just at this time of year. Countless people beyond WS do too. We all play our own little part in not forgetting them. Not letting the authorities think that this is merely a local matter that will, in time, pass into history.

For all the steps that I may have not been able to comprehend, I do believe the TMPD remain wholly committed to finding the coward that took them. While he may feel that each passing year is a step further away from his actions, I hope he also considers that each passing year is a step towards technological advancement and possible legal change. Until the day of his discovery, I wish him every ill and misery imaginable.

Until then, I thank all members for another year's involvement in this space, in this case. To members new and old, I'm grateful. On this day, as our year comes to a close, let us hope the Miyazawa family are at peace if there is such a thing. And let us spare some thought and warmth for their relatives who live with this first-hand each day.

Nicolás

 

[Incoherent]

Re: CCTV. I stand corrected, the feeds are live and accessible in a monitoring room at Seijo police station. No one was checking. There are high definition cameras leading from the house all the way to Chitose Karasuyama station.
Tsuchida san says he laments the current team not doing their job properly and finds the December break-in inexcusable and should not have happened.
Yahoo News

It’s just past 11:00pm here in Japan on December 30th now, 25 years to the day this entire nightmare for the family unfolded. It is cold and quiet outside. 6 degrees celsius, the exact same temperature it was back then too.

May this coming year be the year.

 

[Cryptic]

but now after my long post of thinking "out loud" do not think the clothes described would be the type found in a thrift store.

I, am a thrift store "picker", and I affirm your message. I think you have a very good analysis.

As you related, desirable thrift store clothing comes in two general flavors: A. Vintage brands / styles that enthusiasts use to create a "look". B. modern clothes in good shape, preferably name brand.

Thrift stores will usually only display heavily worn clothing if it is a prestige brand as it can fit say, an "olde money shabby" look. In the end, heavily worn but non prestige brand clothing does not even make it to the thrift store sales floor. Such clothing simply takes up space and does not sell.

Rather, heavily worn donations and donations that made it to the floor, but did not sell are collected into bundles that are sold by the pound. Some compressed bundles can weigh up to 100 pounds. Bundles of "made it to the floor, but did not sell" are destined for brokers in developing countries. Bundles of floor rejects are destined for industrial purposes.

Making it short, I fully agree. Heavily worn, no name brand or "ordinary Joe" brand clothing is essentially not found in thrift stores- well, at least not the US stores.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I, am a thrift store "picker", and I affirm your message. I think you have a very good analysis.

As you related, desirable thrift store clothing comes in two general flavors: A. Vintage brands / styles that enthusiasts use to create a "look". B. modern clothes in good shape, preferably name brand.

Thrift stores will usually only display heavily worn clothing if it is a prestige brand as it can fit say, an "olde money shabby" look. In the end, heavily worn but non prestige brand clothing does not even make it to the thrift store sales floor. Such clothing simply takes up space and does not sell.

Rather, heavily worn donations and donations that made it to the floor, but did not sell are collected into bundles that are sold by the pound. Some compressed bundles can weigh up to 100 pounds. Bundles of "made it to the floor, but did not sell" are destined for brokers in developing countries. Bundles of floor rejects are destined for industrial purposes.

Making it short, I fully agree. Heavily worn, no name brand or "ordinary Joe" brand clothing is essentially not found in thrift stores- well, at least not the US stores.

Hello fellow thrifter! I have seen those bundles of clothes, it amazes me how much is out there...

I visited the thrift store/used clothing idea since the killer was deemed on the younger side and as a possibility to the idea of "staged clothes purchased and worn" for only the murder... and to be open minded about the hip sack/sand possibly being from a Military surplus/thrift store and not belonging to the killer.

Military surplus was popular as well back in the 90s... parade/military boots some wore instead of Doc Martens. Cool jackets, camo/utility pants, messenger bags, etc.

But getting back to the killer - I can now dispel those ideas to myself and can cross that option off my list. I now do believe he did wear his own clothing (as most posters on the thread have always believed) and feel more confirmed the hip sack likely was his and not purchased second hand. MOO JMO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I would also like to add some images from Google Earth in 2009 of the kid’s park entrance just behind the house of the apartments that were there. It is reported on time and time again (even now in the end of year articles) that the area around the house was totally isolated, but it in fact was not. There were only a few houses on the plot, but there were several apartments still there.

View attachment 633809

RSBM: thanks for the pics Question! The above pic ^^^ is that a motel type building or a residence/apartments where people reside? Is it lower income?

Reminds me of a motor inn... Funny, I've never been one to ever stay in a motor inn because I don't like the idea anyone can pull up a car and walk up the stairs and to the door. Feels less private and and not as safe as hotels where you usually have to walk into a lobby, past front desk staff, get access to elevator (or stairs) but feels not as 'open' as a motor inn where people can look through the windows!

Just a weird observation on my part. If someone was scouting out homes to murder or rob or whatever, if that building are residences they look easier to access to me. No wall to scale, no tiny window to maneuver though but looks to be by a busy road? Maybe I am looking too hard though!

 

[Incoherent]

RSBM: thanks for the pics Question! The above pic ^^^ is that a motel type building or a residence/apartments where people reside? Is it lower income?

Reminds me of a motor inn... Funny, I've never been one to ever stay in a motor inn because I don't like the idea anyone can pull up a car and walk up the stairs and to the door. Feels less private and and not as safe as hotels where you usually have to walk into a lobby, past front desk staff, get access to elevator (or stairs) but feels not as 'open' as a motor inn where people can look through the windows!

Just a weird observation on my part. If someone was scouting out homes to murder or rob or whatever, if that building are residences they look easier to access to me. No wall to scale, no tiny window to maneuver though but looks to be by a busy road? Maybe I am looking too hard though!

Yes those are apartments. Fairly older and definitely very cheap to live in. Good for single, lower income people.
They are on the metropolitan road at the entrance of the kid’s park in front of the university baseball grounds, directly behind the Miyazawa house. You can see the swing set that Niina and Rei used to play on.
In the second picture if you look to the right, that is the path that goes by the house next to the river.

 

[annemc2]

I'm old and only have like two working brain cells but wasn't there something about the laundry/method of washing that was significant or unusual about the perp's clothes? Water quality or soap or something like that?

 

[Bobban]

@annemc2 just pulling from my memory but they found that some/a piece of the perpetrators clothing had been washed in hard water while most of Japan uses soft water.

I dont remember if the TMPD has this stated anywhere or where the info comes from. Would be great if someone knows more where this comes from and can link?