Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #7

[Noniegrace]

OR had mom met someone? Was she planning on getting married?
How would he handle that?

I know we have heard NOTHING, but if she was "spending time" with a man...
would he want to admit it? Publicly?

There is a picture I've seen, NL cheek to cheek with an attractive gentleman and they look like they are at a Red Sox game. Do we know who he is?

 

[wfgodot]

yes. and the poem ends w/:

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

 

[twall]

Jesse Lewis's dad was just on CNN. He doesn't have much family, was mostly just him and Jesse. I feel so badly for him and I am so worried for him once the media leaves and everything dies down and he is left with his thoughts.

I saw him last night on Piers Morgan and had the same thoughts. Piers said he will have more with him tonight. I haven't watched yet but am going to catch the rerun in a bit after my family gets to bed and it is quiet as I don't have a DVR to record.

 

[gngr~snap]

Hollow points compress and then turn into an umbrella. They tend to exit the brain unlike a small caliber bullet which can bounce around off the inside of the skull.

Think of brain in a blender. (There will only be mush for the pathologists to exam.)

Thank you for the visual!
Lets hope maybe the brain stem was left.

I was gonna say something else... but I didn't!:whistle:

Seriously though... "some" could be fixed, frozen and "prepped".
It would still show white cells or parasites... just to r/o other stuff

ehh. maybe

 

[SmoothOperator]

regarding Adam's computers.. I realize that they would not be able to see say, if he had a diary or writings or such that he save dto his hard drive..but as far as online and what he visited, viewed, and downloaded that is all still available through easily subpoenaed Internet Service Provider..

so IMO for the most part they will absolutely be able to see what he was viewing and downloading..maybe not emails, but IMO I'd say he wasn't likely emailing tons of folks..IMO seems as to the vast majority if all internet use and downloads is absolutely not at all lost.

 

[helpful]

Curious as to whether his brain showed any pathology at autopsy.

Sorry for being unpleasantly graphic, but if he shot himself in the head with the Glock, it might be impossible to tell.

 

[Pensfan]

Did he shoot himself with a hollow point bullet? All I heard was it was with one of the handguns, one was a 9mm and one was a 10mm, not sure which one and the bullet exited and was found in the wall. Do hollow point bullets exit the body? I thought they exploded inside it.

I don't know what Axxx used to shoot himself.

Exiting the body depends upon the weight of the explosive in the bullet I have seen the scars of men shot with light weight hollow points. These deform when the enter, expand like a umbrella and then blow out the back side with a much large exit wound. I'm not a bullet expert but from what I've seen from an abdominal scar (exit wound), any hollow point would explode a human's skull.

There are several posters on here that have quite a bit of knowledge about bullets. I hope they will share info.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Sorry for being unpleasantly graphic, but if he shot himself in the head with the Glock, it might be impossible to tell.

We heard early on that he literally 'blew his head off' .. there'd be not much to examine. That's why they're looking into genetics to see what his issues may have been. No other choice. I think he wanted it that way too. Privacy, even after death, obviously v important to him.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

But there are plenty of people with Asperger's that are quite successful and have great careers. Obviously they found a way to deal with anxiety.

Absolutely, in fact they interviewed several with Aspergers on our local news channel last night and they were very intelligent, highly gifted, successful and very gentle.

I know this is not the popular opinion but Im not convince any type of mental illness caused this to happen. In fact everyday Im more convinced there isnt and that is why the ME is looking for anything and everything that may explain this senseless tragedy.

Sometimes I think it is easier for some if they believe the issues were complex. They can draw some kind of comfort from that thinking it will not be repeated in the future due to the complexity of why it happened.

But I have looked at this case closely since Friday and I am now of the opinion this had nothing to do with mental illness but it was all about a young man who had had total control over his family especially his mother for most of his life.

But things were changing for Adam and Adam did not like the change, imo. His mother was taking much needed mini- breaks away from him now and wanting him to get out and go to college and build a life for himself. Imo, he saw it as a sign of betrayal and wanting to be rid of him because imo it is all about Adam to Adam. He probably thought at the time if he told her he wasnt going with her on her mini trips she would just stay behind but then she began to go whether he approved or not.

Life had always been centered around Adam since Adam was the child that was born different and needed and got all the attention...even from his oldest brother when he was living at home. Even when the divorce happened the most important issue it seems was all about Adam.

I think Adam used his Aspergers and intelligence as a tool to control his mother and for most of his life it had worked. Adam became very use to being coddled and cater to and he liked the power it gave him, imo.

More than anything when a mother births her child she prays that they are healthy both mentally and physically but if it should not happen and the child is 'different' then many moms can carry guilt as if it was their fault somehow even if it is not warranted. They will try to make ammends the rest of their lives to this child and try hard to see their life is filled with nothing but happiness and bliss. And sometimes they will let the child get away with things they shouldnt.

So Adam grew up knowing how to control his mother. He knew when to send her into deep worry by shutting down and refusing to speak even with her. He knew every trick in the book when it came to hurting her, imo.

It was Adam who bannished his father and refused to see him anymore. When Adam doesnt approve of something he lashes out and the punishment is severe like cutting all ties with his remarried father. IMO

To me this is what happened with his mother and why he murdered her. He knew he was losing his choking vice grip on his mom and his control. She is the only one he had left to boss around and control. And now she was daring to take mini-vacas instead of staying behind and doting on his every whim. How dare she do that to him... he thought , imo. So she too became expendable. He bannished her too for good because he isnt mentally ill but was another one that was filled with jealousy, hatred, and revenge who did the unthinkable.

I think he picked this school because he knew these targets would make the biggiest media firestorm where his name would be known forever.

Just my thoughts.

 

[gngr~snap]

OK! Here's a thought!
UNLIKELY... if NL had MS
maybe he did too?:truce:
just a thought, it could explain a few things, like why no one has seen
him for 3 years.
http://www.guide4living.com/multiple-sclerosis/children.htm

 

[Pensfan]

According to my old man, a 9mm hard point bullet would go through the skull and not bounce around in the skull. A low 22 or 25 caliber bullet bounces around the in the skull and mushes the brain like a blender too.

 

[Hickory Born]

I don't know what Axxx used to shoot himself.

Exiting the body depends upon the weight of the explosive in the bullet I have seen the scars of men shot with light weight hollow points. These deform when the enter, expand like a umbrella and then blow out the back side with a much large exit wound. I'm not a bullet expert but from what I've seen from an abdominal scar (exit wound), any hollow point would explode a human's skull.

There are several posters on here that have quite a bit of knowledge about bullets. I hope they will share info.

I wonder if NL had purchased the hollow points. I see no reason for using them in target shooting.

 

[jjenny]

OK! Here's a thought!
UNLIKELY... if NL had MS
maybe he did too?:truce:
just a thought, it could explain a few things, like why no one has seen
him for 3 years.
http://www.guide4living.com/multiple-sclerosis/children.htm

MS is not considered an inheritable disease. And I don't think it's accurate that nobody seen him in three years.

 

[csziggy]

NOT to start a debate..
Didn't Chris Benoit's dad donate his brain?
everyone thought he snapped from steroid use...
he didn't...
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/chris-benoits-father-murderous-rampage-resulted-fr/nQk9k/

He was creamated. That's all we know.

From your link:

Doctors from Nowinski's group, the Sports Legacy Institute, studied Benoit's brain and found damage consistent with multiple traumas. They said the damage would account for paranoia and depression and could have led Benoit to kill his wife and son.

That's why it would be useful to see what can be found. It might not be possible to get clear answers from AL's brain, but I hope researchers get a chance.

I'm thinking of the Texas Tower sniper - they found a tumor. At the time, the knowledge was not as complete as it is now and there was no solid conclusion if that was the reason for his murderous rampage. But I've seen people here comment that the location of that tumor could be the key.

The more information we gather, the sooner we can hope to stop this kind of thing from happening. It's too easy to just say AL was evil. That lets us all off the hook. I want solid, fact based answers!

 

[Pensfan]

MS is not considered an inheritable disease. And I don't think it's accurate that nobody seen him in three years.

While MS is not hereditary in a strict sense, having a first-degree relative such as a parent or sibling with MS increases an individual's risk of developing the disease several-fold above the risk for the general population. Studies have shown that there is a higher prevalence of certain genes in populations with higher rates of MS. Common genetic factors have also been found in some families where there is more than one person with MS. Some researchers theorize that MS develops because a person is born with a genetic predisposition which triggers an autoimmune response.
http://www.nationalmssociety.org/ab...at-we-know-about-ms/what-causes-ms/index.aspx

 

[Hickory Born]

Something else I wonder...did AL have a Mensa IQ? Some kids called him a genius.

 

[jjenny]

While MS is not hereditary in a strict sense, having a first-degree relative such as a parent or sibling with MS increases an individual's risk of developing the disease several-fold above the risk for the general population. Studies have shown that there is a higher prevalence of certain genes in populations with higher rates of MS. Common genetic factors have also been found in some families where there is more than one person with MS. Some researchers theorize that MS develops because a person is born with a genetic predisposition which triggers an autoimmune response.
http://www.nationalmssociety.org/ab...at-we-know-about-ms/what-causes-ms/index.aspx

I am far from sure that NL herself had MS. For instance, she drove for many hours to her mini-vacation. As for AL, he had no problem with putting on gear, driving to school and killing a number of people. Hardly a bed-ridden individual, don't you think?

 

[gngr~snap]

According to my old man, a 9mm hard point bullet would go through the skull and not bounce around in the skull. A low 22 or 25 caliber bullet bounces around the in the skull and mushes the brain like a blender too.

:twocents: Depends on where the barrel was when fired.
We haven't heard what bullets he used.
.45 hollow point does damage, my husband shot himself with
one in the fore arm... "by accident"
it ended up in his elbow and messed up
his arm BAD! It did bounce around. His ulna was fractured,
the radius wasn't touched.
he had to have 2 bone grafts! and a skin graft.
He also got compartment syndrome and almost
lost his arm!

It's not a skull but...
He is lucky.

This is from a guy who has experience (so he says)
from what I did read he does... but... it makes me feel icky
to read it.

feel free pens!
Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue
http://www.gunthorp.com/Terminal Ballistics as viewed in a morgue.htm

 

[csziggy]

Hollow points compress and then turn into an umbrella. They tend to exit the brain unlike a small caliber bullet which can bounce around off the inside of the skull.

Think of brain in a blender. (There will only be mush for the pathologists to exam.)

You can shoot yourself in the head and not have a bullet bouncing around in the brain cavity. If he shot towards the brain stem, that could have been severed, he would die and the brain itself would be intact.

I know of a case where a doctor shot himself in the temple but his angle was off. Instead of going through the brain from side to side, the bullet slid across the front of the skull, though the sinus cavities. He did horrific damage to his face, but he did not die. He was trying to commit suicide after murdering his wife, and failed to achieve his own death. If his son had not heard the shot and come in immediately, the doctor would have died from blood loss and shock. As it was, he lived through his trial and conviction, and committed suicide in prison.

There are lots of angles at which a head can be shot - some may not be fatal. And we don't know if the hand gun he used on himself was loaded with the same type of ammunition the Bushmaster had.

I'm not a medical person, but I've watched lots of those trauma shows where they have patients come in with head shots that survive.

JMO

 

[gitana1]

ITA .. and to me the frangible ammunition was also used so he wouldn't be injured himself by ricocheting bullets ..

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/frangible.htm



He was 100% calculated. Definitely not psychotic IMO.

This story is fairly recent and wanted to share it...And it shows the pre-meditated plan by AL


Mental disorder, mental illness, personality disorder, Asperger's disorder,whatever disorder this guy had, this guy was Out of Order and Knew Right from Wrong. I'm not going to spend alot of time analyzing his "disorder", it makes me so sick

I have no sympathy for him at all. Those gunned down at the school probably had no way to survive these types of bullets/ammo AL used...this type of ammo just rips all parts of flesh off the person...they were shot all over their bodies, faces, some parents could not identify their children by looking at them...it's so incomprehensible, it makes me so angry thinking about it....A local police officer told me rarely do people survive this kind of ammo AL used...

And some of the bullets went through the school walls and pinged off the car(s) in the parking lot....

Wayne Carver, the Connecticut medical examiner, said Lanza used a technique known to gun enthusiasts as "jungle-taping". This helps explain how the killer was able to wreak so much carnage in a shooting spree that may have lasted barely five minutes.

Dannel Malloy the Connecticut governor, disclosed that Lanza broke into the school by firing a volley of bullets through a secured door and killed himself when he when he heard police arriving while he was still gunning down children.

That raised the prospect that the death toll might have been even higher if the emergency services had not reached the site so quickly.

Police found seven terrified children cowering in the cupboard of a second room after Lanza wiped out one class of six and seven-year-olds and their two teachers. "There were 14 coats hanging there and 14 bodies. He killed them all," a law enforcement officer told the Hartford Courant.

The bullets used in the massacre were designed specifically to penetrate deep tissue and do a "devastating" amount of damage. Weapons experts believe the killer used "frangible ammunition", which fragments on impact, inflicting wounds that are usually beyond medical help.

The weapons were all owned by Mrs Lanza, who was reportedly in bed when her son killed her with shots to the head before driving to the school.

Lanza is believed to have fired at least three 30-bullet magazines with chilling accuracy – only two people, both teachers, survived their injuries.

FBI electronics experts are poring over the broken hard drive trying to determine what is likely to be crucial evidence about how he planned his killing spree, with whom he exchanged messages and what websites he visited.

Thank you both so much. Thank you so much.