Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #8

[Abby Normal Again]

This account from Mr. Novia sounds like the teachers had trouble getting things through to him as well sometimes, or, as the article phrases it, "often".


http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/12/17/connecticut-newtown-gunman-lanza-divorce.html

No doubt, but he didn't ONLY listen to NL's voice and was not completely incapacitated with regards to anyone else's voice/direction. He was not completely and entirely incapable. He was definitely high needs.

 

[HastingsChi]

In an Associated Press article about the divorce of the shooter's parents it is revealed that:

During their meetings, the couple mentioned that Adam Lanza had been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, an autism-like disorder, Levy said. But the Lanzas were in complete agreement on how to address Adam's needs and said little about the details of his condition, Levy said.

With that in mind, I wanted to share the Asperger's Association of New England's Asperger Fact Sheet
http://www.aane.org/about_asperger_syndrome/asperger_fact_sheet.html

I found reading this fact sheet very helpful to gain a better understanding of Asperger disorder, which is an autism spectrum disorder (ASD). I also found it helpful in separating fact from insinuation about Asperger disorder. I thought other WS might be interested in reading it as well.

 

[flipflop]

Thank you!

Everyone keeps questioning some aspects because they say Adam was 'high functioning", e.g., citing the DL and college as two reasons. I guess there is the computer reassembling - not sure when that was or what exactly it would have entailed. It is very possible something with him went downhill over the past 3 years and he was not that high functioning anymore, especially considering what else we think we know:

@ possibly ramped up involvement in online gaming (more realistic and gruesome), I think he started out with a different game than Call of Duty

@ no one seems to have much contact in that time and it's said that Adam cut off communication with Dad and Brother

@ Mom buys a whole arsenal of guns including assault weapons

@ no one seems to visit/gain entry to the home except repairmen

@ Nancy start traveling a lot (?) and quits seeing others as much

@ Adam quits his regular hair stylist and none others have come forward


Other Q's:

When did Adam's brother leave home?
When was Adam's last involvement with the school technology club?

regarding the bolded statement above...
I believe he was high functioning as long as it did not involve being around people, socializing or talking. I feel that the last couple of years, his mother was pushing him to do things on his own...such as going for a haircut, perhaps this is why he shelled himself down in the basement and stopped doing these things.

 

[time]

Hi Time! HS students in CT can take courses in the local colleges for credit for free. They do not have to do lengthy applications or anything. They are not matriculated students sometimes the credits transfer to colleges often they do not.
IMHO The fact that he participated in a few computer courses @ West Conn -3 years really is not a testament to any of his abilities or disabilities.

Things can change a lot in those years and many psych and learning issues such as BI Polar -actually get much more intense over age 18.

I agree, not that I know that much about Connecticut, but I'm familiar with the CA community college system (both of my kids went to them at some point), other Universities where I taught, and other states local colleges. Often the courses, particularly intro courses, are not any more challenging than high school courses. As you say, in many, you are just admitted if you live in state, no big application required.

Adam Lanza Took Western Connecticut State University Courses When He Was 16

Paul Steinmetz, spokesman for the Danbury school, confirmed that Adam Lanza earned a 3.26 grade point average while a student there. He dropped out of a German language class and withdrew from a computer science class, but earned an A in a computer class, A-minus in American history and B in macroeconomics.


He participated when called on by the teacher in his evening course on introductory German, according to Dot Stasny, who was one of about a dozen other students in the class in the spring of 2009. She said she and a classmate once invited him out to a bar but he declined, saying he was only 17.


...Stasny said she saw him later when he came in as a customer at a video game store where she was working. She said she shared a laugh with him about how difficult the German class was. She told him she failed one of the exams, and he mentioned he got a D.


"I just remember him as a nice, quiet kid," she said.


Gretchen Olson, who shared an introductory German class at Western Connecticut with Lanza, said Monday she also believed he was quiet because he was so young "in a class of 20-year-olds."

Steinmetz said Lanza took his last class in the summer of 2009 and didn't return.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/adam-lanza-college-courses_n_2315431.html


Once again .... 3 years ago. And, Adam did not do well in 2/5 courses. I can't tell if this was two semesters (Spring and Summer) or a year (Fall, Spring, Summer)

 

[time]

regarding the bolded statement above...
I believe he was high functioning as long as it did not involve being around people, socializing or talking. I feel that the last couple of years, his mother was pushing him to do things on his own...such as going for a haircut, perhaps this is why he shelled himself down in the basement and stopped doing these things.

Hi Flip!

I just don't think what you are suggesting explains it all ... I don't think all this happened just because she was pushing him to be more independent.

 

[not_my_kids]

A terrible fact is that most ASD individuals will never be able to live and function alone. Although many live with their families, other are put into residential facilities especially if the family is wealthy or the parents are older. Before the 1980's it was estimated that 90% of ASD individuals were institutionalized.

It is logical to think that Nancy was looking to place her son somewhere. She didn't tell all her friends about the struggles she had at home, so some of them thought she would never "abandon" her non-problematic child. Others that she drank with sensed that there was something wrong since Nancy wasn't see around town much in the last month and a half (Sorry, I'm too lazy to find that link, but it exists.) These drinking buddies understood that Nancy was going to move the killer out of her home. These friends stated that the killer was going to be placed in a school or a center.

I hate to beg to differ since you are the verified expert, but this is highly inaccurate. ASD now includes such conditions as Aspergers (high functioning by definition), ADD, ADHD, and the like. Most individuals with ASD are able to function on their own and many, with intervention therapy, CBT, and life skills training are able to live independently, or with minimal oversight. A lot of the statistics that are given now regarding anything prior to the '90's are grandfathered studies, since before that point, individuals with ASD were assumed to be retarded, and that is the diagnosis they were given. Over time, as the dx rate for mental retardation has dropped, the ASD dx rate has climbed at almost the same rate. In other words, in years past, individuals were institutionalized because it was assumed that they were retarded and beyond help. Now that we know of autism (in the 80's, it was hardly dx'ed in the U.S.) and we know how to handle it, if the appropriate treatments are rendered at the appropriate times, there is no reason to believe that the higher functioning at least 50% of those on the spectrum cannot function independently.

 

[matou]

A guy who doesn't speak in public took a German Language class? wow. Interesting that he wanted to learn German. JMO

 

[Dark Knight]

Tears of Jesus

20 mothers and 20 fathers wept. And, with them did the world.

In a story that has become all too familiar in our crazy world, a man who chose evil over God a week ago Friday brought Jesus, too, to tears.

There would be no judgment this day for the 20. None was needed. These were 20 souls who had not been on earth long enough to have had to ask for forgiveness for anything. These 20 suddenly found themselves riding on a new school bus with heaven being their next stop.

When the 20 reached heaven they bounded off the bus and ran to Jesus, who was waiting for them.

“Why are you sad Jesus,” said one of the smallest looking up at Him and taking his hand as she noticed tears in His eyes.

As He wiped His eyes, Jesus knelt down on one knee so He could look at her face to face. He wanted to welcome them to heaven with a smile so they wouldn’t sense any sadness and with open arms so they knew they would now be safe forever.

“I’m not sad,” Jesus answered, trying to shelter them from the truth of a world gone partially mad as their parents had done for several years before. “I am just so happy that you have come to see me in my house today.”

The boys ran about a bit and shouted as they normally do in the schoolyard while the girls stood close by Jesus.

As Jesus watched them, He felt something was wrong. He looked around and counted. There were only 19. There should have been 20. Where was the last one?

“He’s still on the bus,” someone said, knowing what Jesus was looking for.

“Stay here, I’ll be right back,” He said to the group and He boarded the bus. In the back row was a lone child sitting there looking out the window watching the others play.

“Don’t you want to come out and be with the other children?” Jesus asked as he sat down next to the boy.

The boy nodded yes but didn’t move.

“Is something bothering you?” asked Jesus.

The boy gave a shrug that meant something somewhere between yes, no, and I don’t know.

“Come on,” said Jesus as He put his arm around the boy. “Please, tell me what’s wrong.”

“My mommy and daddy are going to miss me,” he said quietly.

“I know,” said Jesus, “we all miss people we love after they are gone from our lives.”

“But why do they have to leave? Why did I have to leave and come here?” The boy asked.

“Do you know how your parents watched over you and took care of you while you were with them?”
The boy nodded.

“Well, now it’s time for you to watch over them and take care of them from here. They are going to need to feel how strong you are and how happy you are being here with me.”

“They will know that?”

“Yes they will.”

The boy thought for a while and his mood seemed to lighten a bit.

“Do they know I’m here?” He asked again in a little different way to gain a little more reassurance.

“Of course they do and that makes them know you are safe now.”

“But they will still miss me,” stated the boy.

“They will.” Jesus and the boy just sat quietly for a few minutes and Jesus said, “do you remember when your Grammy went to heaven?”

The little boy nodded.

“Well, she came to be with me and my Dad.”

The little boy looked up at Him.

“You were sad and missed your Grammy then didn’t you?” Jesus asked.

The little boy nodded.

“What did your mom tell you then?”

“She told me that Grammy went to be with God and Jesus and that she wasn’t sad there so we shouldn’t be sad either. She said that Grammy was going to be happy and that we might miss her but we should be happy that she is with…” the boy paused for a minute and looked up at Jesus. As if a light went on in the boys mind, he smiled and pointed at Jesus and said, “You.”

“That’s right she is with me,” Jesus said with a smile and a little reassuring squeeze around the boy’s shoulders and said, “hey, look who’s here.”

The boy looked up and at the front of the bus stood an older lady.

“Grammy!” The boy shouted. He jumped up and ran into her arms. “What are you doing here?”

“I came to say hi,” she said as she gave him a big hug. “Poppy’s here too and can’t wait to see you.”

She took the boys hand and led him off the bus.

“Why don’t you go play with the other boys and girls now,” the grandmother said. “We’ll see each other again really soon.”

“Promise?” asked the boy.

“Promise,” said the grandmother as the boy ran off to meet the others.

When Jesus got off the bus, He noticed that the girls had joined the boys, playing and running around in the flowers that filled the fields around them.

Jesus watched them for a few minutes, lost in the joy of the children’s laughter.

“Come on,” said Jesus as He started walking up a path that led towards and over the top of a nearby hill. “Do you want to meet my Dad?”

The children whopped and hollered as they ran to catch up to Him. As they did, tears again came to Jesus eyes.

The tears came from sadness because evil had brought these twenty to him much sooner than they should have come. But, the tears also came out of joy as He watched the 20 running through the fields of heaven playing with the vigor of unbridled youth. He continued to walk with them as their laughter filled the air like songbirds singing on a warm spring day making heaven seem just a little bit fuller this day.

The 20 will forever be children living in God’s house as they, now, take their turn watching over those they left behind.

Elmer Laydon, TheWhisperofGod.com

 

[jjenny]

Hi Flip!

I just don't think what you are suggesting explains it all ... I don't think all this happened just because she was pushing him to be more independent.

If he had a lot of social anxiety, the idea of being around other students in a special school/center wouldn't appeal to him. If all he wanted is to sit in his basement all day and mother was trying to get him out in the world, he could have become really angry with her for planning to ruin his way of life (sitting in the basement playing videogames).

 

[HastingsChi]

Hi Flip!

I just don't think what you are suggesting explains it all ... I don't think all this happened just because she was pushing him to be more independent.

Time you've raised some very interesting ideas in your posts this morning; I really appreciate the thought-provoking points you outlined.

In not sure what CT medical privacy laws are regarding deceased individuals, but I am most interested to learn if the shooter was participating in any form of social skills training, cognitive behavioral therapy, seeing a psychologist or psychiatrist, or on any medication to treat his Asperger's or for any potential co-existing conditions he may have been diagnosed with.

 

[HastingsChi]

A guy who doesn't speak in public took a German Language class? wow. Interesting that he wanted to learn German. JMO

Your posts can always bring a smile to my face. You're the best matou. :floorlaugh:

 

[Donjeta]

A guy who doesn't speak in public took a German Language class? wow. Interesting that he wanted to learn German. JMO

If it was his own idea and not a course that mom chose for him.

I guess if he was interested in historical weapons like the plumber said it might have broadened into an interest in history of war, and if so, Germany is quite central to what happened in WW2.

 

[flipflop]

Hi Flip!

I just don't think what you are suggesting explains it all ... I don't think all this happened just because she was pushing him to be more independent.

Nope and I was not trying to explain it all...In fact I don't think anyone ever will be able to explain why he did this.

I also didnt say all this happened because the mom pushing him to be more independent, I simply mentioned this as I feel this was a contributing factor as to why he has been in the basement for the last 2 years or so.

 

[i.b.nora]

Someone linked to this article above but with only one minor quote to serve their own purpose.

It's actually a very good interview and well written piece by Dan Woog, a fulltime freelance writer, and Westport, Connecticut resident.

Jennifer Huettner, And The Adam Lanza She Knew
Posted on December 21, 2012

"Like everyone else, Jennifer Huettner agonized last Friday. As the news from Newtown went from awful to unfathomable, she had special reason to worry.

Jennifer is Staples High School’s beloved, energetic Latin teacher. But for 11 years, starting in 1999, she taught at Newtown High School. She lives just minutes from the town, and remains closely connected to it.

After lunch on Friday — she ate alone in the language lab — someone said Ryan Lanza was the killer. Jennifer could not believe the news. She’d taught him for 4 years. “He’s a gentle soul,” she says. “He wouldn’t hurt a fly.”

New information soon named Ryan’s brother Adam as the murderer.

Jennifer spent 3 years as Adam’s teacher."

Much, much more...

 

[Xavier]

I was very interested in finding how the Conn laws on having a family member PLACED (IMO institutionalized is harsh, out dated wording) in a residential home for special needs family members.. The current laws in Conn sound like Nancy Lanza needed plenty of well documented evidence of her son's behaviors ....Bottom line, It could very well be she did not have enough documentation to meet the minimum requirements of the current laws

In February 2012, Connecticut Senate Bill 452 (SB452) was put forward to remedy the fact that Connecticut was one of less than ten states in the U.S. to lack an "assisted outpatient treatment" (AOT) law. As David Stein has pointed out, there are just six states that lack such a law.

But the bill was passed to Connecticut's Joint Committee on Judiciary in March, where it quietly faded away because of opposition by those who viewed it as "egregious" and "outrageously discriminatory."

Had this law passed, it may have forced Adam Lanza to be treated for his alleged mental illness instead of allowing him to roam free, and ultimately to kill 26 persons and himself in a vindictive rage on Friday.

Although there is some variation, the way these laws work in other states is simple: AOT laws preempt older statutes that only allow the mentally ill to be forcibly institutionalized for treatment if they've done harm to themselves or others. This is possible because AOT laws allow a state to institutionalize a mentally ill person for treatment if the state has reason to suspect such institutionalization will prevent the individual from doing harm to self or others.

Why didn't the legislation pass? Because the ACLU and other "civil liberties" groups and individuals cried foul. The ACLU in particular said 452 would "infringe on patients' privacy rights by expanding [the circle of] who can medicate individuals without their consent." They also said it infringed on patient rights by reducing the number of doctors' opinions necessary to commit someone to institutionalization.

To be clear, no one can know that the passage of SB452 would have stopped Lanza for sure, as there's no guarantee a doctor or mental specialist would have seen the warning signs in time to institutionalize him for treatment.

However, it is worth noting that proponents of SB452 had the prevention of situations like Friday's shooting in mind when they tried to provide Connecticut residents with another layer of protection from the mentally ill (and criminal).B]

 

[not_my_kids]

Is it possible that AL didn't speak in public, not because of his conditions, but because he was medicated before going out in public? If he was subject to random outbursts at home, or if Nancy was concerned about someone making him uncomfortable while they were out in public, leading to embarrassment or confrontation, might she have medicated him before they went anywhere? For instance, the trips to the barber. That might have been a lot of stress for him, someone was touching him, the snick of the scissors, nothing to do really to occupy himself while he was sitting there, and the sensory issues that come with having prickly pieces of hair all over you...


This is not to imply that Nancy did anything wrong, and there very well could have been a prescription on file for him for anxiety meds. We don't know that because his father isn't talking, and HIPAA wouldn't allow his doctors, if he had any to speak on that.

 

[time]

Time you've raised some very interesting ideas in your posts this morning; I really appreciate the thought-provoking points you outlined.

In not sure what CT medical privacy laws are regarding deceased individuals, but I am most interested to learn if the shooter was participating in any form of social skills training, cognitive behavioral therapy, seeing a psychologist or psychiatrist, or on any medication to treat his Asperger's or for any potential co-existing conditions he may have been diagnosed with.

Since we know so little about whether Adam was diagnosed with Aspergers, if so when was he diagnosed, and what kind of regular review took place, I think there is a huge question mark on what was happening with him over the years, especially the last 3-4 years. We don't know if he had some co-morbid mental illness either or if he was on medication. We also don't know, as I've said before, if Adam expected his own performance in college to be much higher than it was. And, his success may or may not have been due to cognitive ability - ability only means you can do something if you have the right circumstances and apply yourself. Many emotional/physical problems can interfere with your thinking ... and, as we know stress or emotional problems can cause physical problems. Some people are also quite good at limited problem solving or completing tasks, but not good at more fuzzy logic, moral problem solving, or complex thought. I don't want to rely on pictures too much, but Adam's classmates didn't say anything about him really acting or looking bad. That was at 17? He does look bad in the Driver's license photo at 18 (of course, I don't want anyone to see my DL photos either).

 

[jjenny]

Anxiety meds don't stop someone from talking in public. They are supposed to do the opposite, actually.

 

[HastingsChi]

I was very interested in finding how the Conn laws on having a family member placed (IMO institutionalized is harsh, out dated wording) in a residential home for special needs family members

Let’s talk ACLU

Connecticut is one of only SIX states in the U.S. that doesn’t have a type of “assisted outpatient treatment” (AOT) law (sometimes referred to as “involuntary outpatient treatment”). There’s no one standard for these types of laws, but (roughly speaking) these are laws that allow for people with mental illness to be forcibly treated BEFORE they commit a serious crime.

Whereas previous legal standards held that the mentally ill cannot be institutionalized or medicated until they harm someone or themselves, or until they express an immediate intent to do so, AOT laws (again, roughly speaking) allow for preventative institutionalization or forced medication

AOT laws vary state-by-state, and often bear the name of a person murdered by an untreated mentally ill person (“Kendra’s Law” in New York, “Laura’s Law” in California, etc.).

Earlier this year, Connecticut considered passing an AOT law (and a weak one, at that), and it failed, due to protests from “civil liberties” groups.

Xavier thanks for sharing that information.

In your examination of CT medical-related laws, did you happen to come across any information about CT medical privacy laws regarding deceased individuals? If the same privacy laws apply in life & death, would the shooter's father be able to sign a waiver to release such information?
I ask because it would be interesting to learn if the shooter was participating in any form of social skills training, cognitive behavioral therapy, seeing a psychologist or psychiatrist, or on any medication to treat his Asperger's or for any potential co-existing conditions he may have been diagnosed with.

 

[not_my_kids]

Anxiety meds don't stop someone from talking in public. They are supposed to do the opposite, actually.

Depends on the strength of the meds. I have a hard time speaking when I take my Valium. All my attention is on keeping my eyes open and my head up. It didn't even have to be anxiety meds, it could have been something to keep him from randomly speaking about whatever was on his mind or a side effect of a med for something completely unrelated.

Keep in mind, I am just trying to figure out what is a symptom of his underlying condition, what might have been a symptom of something else, and what might have been a side effect of a treatment for his condition, whatever that might have actually been.