Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #9

[wallflower67]

Who is the "he" you're referring to?

Yes, the point has already been made multiple times that Aspergers doesn't morph into schizophrenia or vice versa. In fact, I know of no developmental disorder that morphs into a psychiatric disorder. Again, I've heard of co-morbidity of one or more disorders/illnesses, but never that one disorder transforms into another.

The thing that I'm currently interested in is what the statistics say about the co-morbidity of Aspergers with schizophrenia. A poster earlier stated that MDs often misdiagnose Aspergers as schizophrenia when the patient is young. I'm interested in the percentage of misdiagnosis, and comorbidity of both disorders.

Also, it would be great is someone could lay out side-by-side the symptoms of Aspergers vs. symptoms of schizophrenia, and the age of onset for both. TIA

I was referring to AL. I think the other poster had said something about Aspergers morphing into Schizophrenia as he got older and I was responding to that.

My daughter has Aspergers so I've fought this battle. She also has co-morbid OCD (she really has both, not just the rigidity that comes from Aspergers.) She has never been violent, but in one hospitalization for being suicidal due to her OCD, a doctor tried to tell me she was psychotic because of her OCD thoughts on top of her Aspie behavior. I pulled her out AMA and drove across town to another hospital that, fortunately, had a pediatric bed open.

Anyway, she never morphed from Aspergers to Schizophrenia, and it was clear to me the difference (I am also a health care worker.)

AL, like my daughter, may have had comorbid disorders. I don't know that stats on comorbid Schizophrenia and Aspergers, though. Sorry.

 

[costalpilot]

The CT school shooting was the result of a combination of many factors; the perfect storm. School shootings are very rare.. It is imperative to identify these factors to prevent another tragic shooting in the future..

school shootings are not anywhere near as rare now as they were when I grew up....I was born in 1943.

I'll call them "public shootings" and to the best of my cloudy memory they have increased remarkably in the last ten years.

I agree with the perfect storm analogy in this case. but I insist that violent virtual kill reality (I cant call them games) is a big factor that should not be overlooked in the analysis.

the well done FBI analysis of school shooters posted below certainly did not overlook the potential significance of violent "gaming" in school shootings.

 

[Hickory Born]

FBI involved with FAKE woman who said she was victim's aunt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/28/n...ictims-aunt-in-fraud-scheme-fbi-says.html?hpw

 

[Kimberlyd125]

FBI involved with FAKE woman who said she was victim's aunt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/28/n...ictims-aunt-in-fraud-scheme-fbi-says.html?hpw

Disgusting

 

[katydid23]

:moo::moo::moo:

Blaming violent video games is like blaming bread:
Bread was found in the homes of every single murderer - ergo the bread must be evil.

Almost every young male is playing these types of games. But not everyone of them is violent himself. Considering how many people play these games, its a very very small percentage of those who actually engage in violent behaviour.

Of course, a child with special needs should not spend hours and hours of playing.
Of course, a child that is extremely antisocial should not spend hours of playing as well. In this case, it is a parents responsability to say stop.
The parents of any youngster, who is spending hours and hours on the computer, should check the websites, games, etc. from time to time.

But still - blaming violent video games is like blaming bread, or milk, or having framed pictures on the wall.

:moo::moo::moo:

It is like blaming bread. Like anything else, if someone is eating 'bread' 14 hours a day, and doing nothing else, it can be very bad. Even deadly.

The same thing with violent video games, imo. My DS plays them. He just got a new one called ' Chainsaw Lollipop' or something like that.

But he does not have time to play them 14 hours a day. He works, goes to school, and has a steady girlfriend, who hates video games. So he only plays them several hours a week in his man cave when his buddies come by.

 

[jjenny]

FBI involved with FAKE woman who said she was victim's aunt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/28/n...ictims-aunt-in-fraud-scheme-fbi-says.html?hpw

Arrest made.
"The FBI on Thursday arrested a New York City woman for allegedly collecting fraudulent "funeral fund" donations for a child killed in the Newtown school massacre, claiming she was his aunt."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ok-nouel-alba-arrested-donation-scam/1794713/

 

[human]

I think many of us are desensitized in a lot of ways. I cannot watch old movies that were considered suspenseful in their day, such as Rear Window.

We expect everything to be instant-- computer, microwave.

We go from one tragedy to the next.

Japan has incredibly violent video games.

They do not have one thing we have--- easy access to guns

 

[JBean]

FBI involved with FAKE woman who said she was victim's aunt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/28/n...ictims-aunt-in-fraud-scheme-fbi-says.html?hpw

This story right here is why we don't allow donation posts and threads without careful vetting and approval from the owners of WS.

 

[Grasshopper]

A few new tidbits:

Judge John Blawie granted motions filed Wednesday by Danbury State's Attorney Stephen Sedensky to extend the statutory sealing period for the five warrants, including three for the Yogonanda Street home where the 20-year-old Lanza fatally shot his mother, Nancy, four times in the face on the morning of Dec. 14, before embarking on the rampage that left 20 first-graders and six educators dead.

The judge's order also covers the two other search warrants, for the 2010 Honda Civic Adam Lanza drove to the school and for Nancy Lanza's 2009 silver BMW, which was parked in the garage attached to the home.

Read more: http://www.ctpost.com/policereports...avits-remain-sealed-4150259.php#ixzz2GJJew200

Sedensky said in his applications that the affidavits contained information "not known to the general public" and that premature disclosure would "seriously jeopardize the outcome and success of the investigation" by "divulging sensitive and confidential information" known only to investigators.

Although no arrests have been made and "none are contemplated," Sedensky also said the possibility has not been ruled out, and that releasing the information would make it difficult to solve crimes that others might have committed.

Read more: http://www.ctpost.com/policereports...avits-remain-sealed-4150259.php#ixzz2GJJtR0NU

 

[newlyminted]

with all due respect i am not suggesting that video games are causative. they are a factor that need to be considered. thats all.

but they should not be dismissed as a non factor because 40 million people use them correctly.

imo they played a major factor in this tragedy, and in several others as well. of course there were other major problems. there always are.

I disagree. I don't think the video games played a "major" factor in this, or other school tragedies. They might be a factor, they might "train" a person, in a way, but with or without the video games AL would have likely become a mass murderer. Sure, the video games appear to be a common theme in most of these shootings (Columbine, ect.), but commonality is where it ends, IMO. The availability of guns to do the killing would be a major factor. His mental illness would be a major factor. The video games simply existed. I strongly believe with or without them he would have done this. I also strongly believe this would not have happened if he didn't have access to these guns in his home.

 

[FrayedKnot]

He didn't have a gun, she had them. It's pure speculation that she wouldn't let him in the kitchen for any reason at all.

No ONE - saw this coming - no one. My question is not about the guns it's WHY didn't any one know what was going on.

There's a lot of armchair hindsight going on - just because someone doesn't have eye contact doesn't mean they can't shoot a gun or shouldn't be able to defend themselves.

You don't know that he couldn't speak, we have reports that he was uncomfortable speaking. But we also have reports that while he was shy, he could be funny and talk to some people.

So you can't really have a blanket statement that if you are uncomfortable with others, if you're super smart, if you don't look at people in the eyes that keeps you from learning to shoot a gun.

If you really want to discuss gun control I understand there's a thread about it - I am not there until they actually open the political pavilion again.

We actually don't have ANY concrete information about AL. MSM reports are all we have to go on and you will note that I mentioned in my previous post that "if" any of these reports are true "then".

My statements are no more blanket than are yours. At this point we just don't know anything for sure. That is why we are all speculating. Even you.

 

[FrayedKnot]

with all due respect i am not suggesting that video games are causative. they are a factor that need to be considered. thats all.

but they should not be dismissed as a non factor because 40 million people use them correctly.

imo they played a major factor in this tragedy, and in several others as well. of course there were other major problems. there always are.

The same could be said about the guns that actually were used by AL to murder 20 children. Some people want to dismiss them as a factor in this debacle.

 

[Grasshopper]

It's a hard article to make it through. But, gives an intense look at this event through the mother of one victim's eyes.

http://forward.com/articles/168277/noah-pozners-family-remembers-and-mourns/?p=all#ixzz2GHg1tBjJ

 

[mck16]

I disagree. I don't think the video games played a "major" factor in this, or other school tragedies. They might be a factor, they might "train" a person, in a way, but with or without the video games AL would have likely become a mass murderer. Sure, the video games appear to be a common theme in most of these shootings (Columbine, ect.), but commonality is where it ends, IMO. The availability of guns to do the killing would be a major factor. His mental illness would be a major factor. The video games simply existed. I strongly believe with or without them he would have done this. I also strongly believe this would not have happened if he didn't have access to these guns in his home.

And what about the guns the first responders carried with them into the school. should they have not been armed?

 

[newlyminted]

And what about the guns the first responders carried with them into the school. should they have not been armed?

How do you make that leap? AL was a 20 year old, mentally ill, sick boy who should not have had guns within reaching distance. First responders are trained professionals. Are you likening a murderer to first responders?

Here is the thing; there are people who should have guns and people who should not. Period. First responders are one thing, a sick 20 year old is another issue entirely. I really can't fathom how you could possibly leap from my statement to guns being a MAJOR factor in this tragedy to suggesting that I was suggesting first responders should not be armed..

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I have a friend who has gone to college for law enforcement, psychology and is
a parole officer.
He said that allot of officers relate 4 shots to mothers face as a sexual assault.
Any others weight in on this????
Just opinion of a friend

I alluded to the sexual vibes regarding this case that I was picking up a few pages back, imho.

 

[FrayedKnot]

How do you make that leap? AL was a 20 year old, mentally ill, sick boy who should not have had guns within reaching distance. First responders are trained professionals. Are you likening a murderer to first responders?

Here is the thing; there are people who should have guns and people who should not. Period. First responders are one thing, a sick 20 year old is another issue entirely. I really can't fathom how you could possibly leap from my statement to guns being a MAJOR factor in this tragedy to suggesting that I was suggesting first responders should not be armed..

Thanks button wasn't enough.

That was a ridiculous statement and you replied beautifully! .

 

[Foxfire]

http://www.secretservice.gov/ntac/ssi_final_report.pdf

THE FINAL REPORT AND
FINDINGS OF THE
SAFE SCHOOL
INITIATIVE:
IMPLICATIONS FOR
THE PREVENTION OF
SCHOOL ATTACKS IN
THE UNITED STATES
UNITED STATES SECRET SERVICE AND
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION

(snipped)

In June 1999, following the attack at Columbine High School, our two agencies--the
U.S. Secret Service and the U.S. Department of Education--launched a collaborative
effort to begin to answer these questions. The result was the Safe School Initiative,
an extensive examination of 37 incidents of targeted school shootings and school
attacks that have occurred in the United States beginning with the earliest identified
incident in 1974 through June 2000. The focus of the Safe School Initiative was on
examining the thinking, planning, and other behaviors engaged in by students who
carried out school attacks. Particular attention was given to identifying pre-attack
behaviors and communications that might be detectable--or "knowable"--and could
help in preventing some future attacks.
read more-

 

[Foxfire]

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...7/04/psychopath_depressive_schizophrenic.html

HOME / MEDICAL EXAMINER : HEALTH AND MEDICINE EXPLAINED.
Psychopath? Depressive? Schizophrenic?
Was Cho Seung-Hui really like the Columbine killers?
By Dave Cullen|Posted Friday, April 20, 2007, at 3:45 PM ET


Today is the eighth anniversary of the Columbine massacre, and it is a particularly disturbing one. With his sadistic creative writing, contempt for snotty rich kids, militaristic posing, and heavily plotted revenge fantasy, Virginia Tech killer Cho Seung-Hui has eerily reminded many Americans of Columbine murderers Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.

Cho apparently saw Klebold and Harris as kindred martyrs, giving the boys two separate shout-outs in his suicide manifesto. But how deep do the similarities run? And what can the multiyear effort to understand Klebold and Harris teach us about Cho?
Like Cho, the Columbine killers left a mountain of writings and videotapes, which seemed confusing when doled out in little sound bites. But in time, and in the context of all the evidence, investigators found Klebold's and Harris' ideas diabolically coherent and cohesive, fitting into highly recognizable patterns.

 

[MyBelle]

How do you make that leap? AL was a 20 year old, mentally ill, sick boy who should not have had guns within reaching distance. First responders are trained professionals. Are you likening a murderer to first responders?

Here is the thing; there are people who should have guns and people who should not. Period. First responders are one thing, a sick 20 year old is another issue entirely. I really can't fathom how you could possibly leap from my statement to guns being a MAJOR factor in this tragedy to suggesting that I was suggesting first responders should not be armed..

BBM. Well said. The guns, ammo, violent games, car weren't purchased by AL yet he had access to them and used them to the ultimate possible. It's all so far over the top, it's still a bit unbelievable.

JMO