GUILTY Conrad Murray Case - After The Trial & Verdict

[outofstatelawyer]

Well, keep it up Dr. Murray. This alone will keep you from keeping or ever getting your medical license back. :rocker:

Indeed! Here he is wanting a new trial, appealing the verdict. Now, those are losers and he has no chance of prevailing. But, what if he did? Now a prosecutor would have a whole new way to attack Murray.

I don't believe for one second that Chernoff didn't know about these interviews. Chernoff really is a sleaze bucket. IMHO.

 

[Thundar]

Interesting article about CM's documentary/interviews and the defense team's involvement/knowledge (or lack thereof according to them "wink wink")

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-1110-murray-doc-20111110,0,879493.story

In the final days of his manslaughter trial, Murray sat for wide-ranging interviews about Jackson's death with NBC and a British outlet as part of the documentary package those networks purchased. Murray's criminal attorneys said they were never told of the interviews, given despite their warnings about "the dangers of talking about June 25th" — the day the singer died

"They just didn't tell me because they know I'd freak out," said lead defense attorney Ed Chernoff, who said he learned of the interviews the morning after the verdict when portions aired on NBC.

This is the same thing they tried during the trial. Anyone but the defendant, and anything but the truth. I don't believe that the defense had no idea about the documentary or the interviews. What did they think was going on when Murray showed up with a camera crew to "team" meetings? And exactly where did they think Murray got the money to pay them?

I wondered during the trial where Murray got the money to pay the "suits" sitting at his table, and here is how he did it. Color me surprised.

Kind of ranks right up there with a mother selling the pictures of her dead daughter she killed to fund her defense.

 

[MsBashterd]

I am so offended that killers are now given a platform to tell even more lies.

FGS! What in the hell has happened to our society.

I have watched snippets of the interview and it makes me want to hurl.

No wonder this man did not take the stand in his behalf.

He said it was working perfectly well for three days without the propofol and in the next breath he says MJ was telling him propofol was the only thing that worked.:innocent: So which is it? It worked and he got great sleep or you were actually giving him propopfol the entire three days just like the months before and that is why MJ tells you it is the only thing that works? Because it makes no sense what you say, Murray.

Los Angeles -- Michael Jackson's last words were a plea for more propofol, "because that was the only thing" that would put him to sleep, Dr. Conrad Murray said in an interview aired on NBC's "Today" show Thursday.

Contradiction after contradiction.

If MJ was just sleeping:innocent: not under the influence of propofol any longer then why were YOU still even there, Murray?

I wonder if he is even aware what a bad liar he is? Most narcissist don't, they actually believe people will believe them.

Deception?:furious: Oh Doc Murray knows all too well how to be deceptive. :furious:

MJ is a perfect target. Only one man was left standing to tell what happen and when only one side of the story is told the truth is NEVER revealed!

IMO

Again Bash has angry eye's :furious: he is such a little weasel'ed faced liar.

Bash must protest if MJ was a chronic insomnia suffer you never just sleep ever NEVER ever. I have good nights and I have bad night's. I will sleep for an hour or so then I am up for an hour or so. Good nights I will bank 3 to 4 hours between 2 am and 6 am. There is no real cure for this it is how it is. So hearing that beady eyed weasel say that MJ slept good for 3 day's is BS. Especially with good ole Arnie shoving freakin demerol in his colapsed veins just for good measure, MJ would have been in a constant state of some sort of withdrawl that just doesnt go away in a couple of day's and giving an addict any amount of opidate's trigger's this withdrawl just like you had been using for years, and the worst of the worst w/d is NOT SLEEPING JIGGY LEG MIDNIGHT INSANITY W/D's vary from time to time but alway's, always present and accounted for first to come last to go was not sleeping, you freakin Quack doctor from hell. No amount of benzo'x stops it, well I guess if you gave enough to kill that person then it might stop. Hmmm Bash thinks she is on to something here maybe I should give Murray a call and let him know how W/D and addiction works with an insomniac. No just give me 5 minutes and Murrary will simply be a bad memory I have the puurrrfect spot to place his famous saline bag and needle. :maddening:

Hi, MsBash :seeya:-- Just want to say Bravo for your victory and I wish much strength for you to keep it that way.

No wonder you are so tender-hearted about MJ -- you, too, have been in that dark pit where there seems to be no rescue, no exit and no help -- but you crawled out and are away from it. But we all know IT is still there, and any one of us can fall in and get lost. Just keep on your one-day-at-a-time path. Today is all we can handle, and it's all we're given. As in, "Give us today our daily bread." Today. That's all we need ask -- just for today.

Stand proud, Girrrrrrllll!! Look where you are.

You are standing! And you have given us a bit of yourself, and at some price. But you can tell, we enjoy and look forward to your pieces of wisdom and wit. And you know if you need us, just put out an AWSB, and we'll come tumbling down to lift you up or slow you down or just to laff with you.

Thanxs so much Borndem, it has been a long and very twisted road I went through W/D 5 times in the first year but Bash now has a chant I say No all the way down to my soul. I will never put myself through the pain and agony of opidate W/D ever again.

After this trial and well just hearing it all MJ's condition I find it hard to believe that he was even close to a fully functioning man. I have a necklace that has a charm on it that represent's strength after the trial I took hold of it said I have the strength to make it and be strong, MJ I heard you, you touched me, you sir saved my life. I stay sober and strong as a tribute to you and the depth's of hell they all took you to.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I doubt they will ever see that money. CM has whatever money he was paid on that documentary in an off shore account or perhaps even under his mom's name in Trinidad. JMO

Son of Sam state statute.

Cal Civ Code § 2225 (2001)

§ 2225. Proceeds from sale of story of felony by convicted felon; Involuntary trust

(a)(3)(B) "Profiteer of the felony" means any person who sells or transfers for profit any memorabilia or other property or thing of the felon, the value of which is enhanced by the notoriety gained from the commission of the felony for which the felon was convicted. This subparagraph shall not apply to any media entity reporting on the felon's story or on the sale of the materials, memorabilia, or other property or thing of the felon. Nor shall it apply to the sale of the materials, as the term is defined in paragraph (6), where the seller is exercising his or her first amendment rights. This subparagraph also shall not apply to the sale or transfer by a profiteer of any other expressive work protected by the First Amendment unless the sale or transfer is primarily for a commercial or speculative purpose.

(10) (b)(1) All proceeds from the preparation for the purpose of sale, the sale of the rights to, or the sale of materials that include or are based on the story of a felony for which a convicted felon was convicted, shall be subject to an involuntary trust for the benefit of the beneficiaries set forth in this section. That trust shall continue until five years after the time of payment of the proceeds to the felon or five years after the date of conviction, whichever is later. If an action is filed by a beneficiary to recover his or her interest in a trust within those time limitations, the trust character of the property shall continue until the conclusion of the action. At the end of the five-year trust period, any proceeds that remain in trust that have not been claimed by a beneficiary shall be transferred to the Controller, to be allocated to the Restitution Fund for the payment of claims pursuant to Section 13969 of the Government Code.

http://www.freedomforum.org/packages/first/SonOfSam/index.htm

 

[oceanblueeyes]

After conviction, legal woes mount for Jackson's doctor


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-11-11/michael-jackson-doctor-murray/51166878/1

 

[MsBashterd]

After conviction, legal woes mount for Jackson's doctor


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-11-11/michael-jackson-doctor-murray/51166878/1

Thank you Ocean that gave me a bit of a smile that was much needed. I did esp. enjoy the part of the article (not a direct quote) where in a civil case other doctors parts in MJ's condition would be brought to light. That made me do the chair dance. I have never made it a secret that I think that Murray shouldnt have been the only one at that defense table.

 

[borndem]

Good morning

He is arrogant and a pompous a**.

What I found most telling in the 2nd part of that interview this morning is that he did not dispute Alvarez saying he cleaned up and his statement at the very end after being asked about calling 911 and MJ may have been alive; his exact words: "who knows by the time I discovered him; he had not died?".

So which is it - was he dead or did he feel a pulse as per his original statement to LE?

Tezi, I agree with you - he makes me sick and he still will not admit giving propofol in the home without monitoring is wrong. uke:

bbm
Well, Credence, he IS the doctor here, you know!

Anyone else, probably including a few MDs here and there, just don't know medicine as well as he does. I mean, even his father was a doctor! It's a genetic thing that most people just wouldn't understand. High intelligence, hard working, truly a Man among men. And the women -- oh, yes, the women. Charming, at least when he flaps out that roll of cash & pays 3 large for a lap dance.

He is SPECIAL!! And he knows it. Even the guards in the county jail have already realized that this man has been rail-roaded. A special cell all by himself. The best cell in the jailhouse, of course.

First MJ decieves him, and that is the reason he died. If he'd only been truthful -- he was Michael's only friend. He was doing the impossible -- he was weaning MJ from the propofol, and it was working. If only Michael had been patient and not injected that syringe full of propofol. He should have let The Doctor do it, because only he knew how. His actions that night were above criticism because he didn't do anything wrong. He's the doctor who saves people, don't you know that??? He's already saved so many lives -- the lives of his friends. ....if he hadn't come along, those poor folks would be dead!

He's a hero and a legend in his own mind. Just ask him!! He'll be glad to tell you all about himself.

 

[MsBashterd]

bbm
Well, Credence, he IS the doctor here, you know!

Anyone else, probably including a few MDs here and there, just don't know medicine as well as he does. I mean, even his father was a doctor! It's a genetic thing that most people just wouldn't understand. High intelligence, hard working, truly a Man among men. And the women -- oh, yes, the women. Charming, at least when he flaps out that roll of cash & pays 3 large for a lap dance.

He is SPECIAL!! And he knows it. Even the guards in the county jail have already realized that this man has been rail-roaded. A special cell all by himself. The best cell in the jailhouse, of course.

First MJ decieves him, and that is the reason he died. If he'd only been truthful -- he was Michael's only friend. He was doing the impossible -- he was weaning MJ from the propofol, and it was working. If only Michael had been patient and not injected that syringe full of propofol. He should have let The Doctor do it, because only he knew how. His actions that night were above criticism because he didn't do anything wrong. He's the doctor who saves people, don't you know that??? He's already saved so many lives -- the lives of his friends. ....if he hadn't come along, those poor folks would be dead!

He's a hero and a legend in his own mind. Just ask him!! He'll be glad to tell you all about himself.

Bash bows to Borndem :takeabow::

Ahh would it be a little freaky to say I think I luve you :heartluv:


:yourock:

 

[peace9274]

Thank you Ocean that gave me a bit of a smile that was much needed. I did esp. enjoy the part of the article (not a direct quote) where in a civil case other doctors parts in MJ's condition would be brought to light. That made me do the chair dance. I have never made it a secret that I think that Murray shouldnt have been the only one at that defense table.

BBM

Hi Bash :seeya: Thanks for your comments!

BUT.... I do have to say, that regardless of what the other doctors did or didn't do to contribute to MJ's "condition",
Conrad Murray was the only one who actually caused the death of MJ.... by his grossly negligent actions and his
grossly negligent non-actions. And that's all the trial was about. Period. Did CM cause MJ's death? Yes or No? Guilty or Not?

The only drugs in MJ's system when he died, from the autopsy report, were the meds that CM gave MJ in the days & hours prior to MJ's death.

There may be other doctors in the past who "treated" MJ... who also were negligent or were not acting in MJ's best interest re his health.
But THIS trial was only about MJ's death and what caused it.

Every single thing that caused MJ's death, and there were several factors, leads to Conrad Murray and his not acting as a good doctor should have!

What caused Michael Jackson's death WAS NOT his addictions, NOT his insomnia, NOT the rehearsals, NOR whether he would be able to perform the next day, NOR his lifestyle, NOR his age, NOR how much medication was in his system, NOR his health, NOR employees, Nor pharmacists, NOR other doctors, NOR pressure for the Tour to go on, NOR MJ's begging, pleading, demanding CM to give him propofol.

None of those caused or were contributing factors in MJ's death!

Nobody else & nothing else was on trial, nor should have been on trial, because on the day Michael Jackson died,
it was only Conrad Murray that caused Michael Jackson's death.

 

[borndem]

Bash bows to Borndem :takeabow::

Ahh would it be a little freaky to say I think I luve you :heartluv:


:yourock:

Well, Little Bash, I'll just assume that you did say it!! Freaky, my friend in the right-kind-of-freaky way!

I must say, bash, that it is SO GOOD that you are posting more! I like your angle, Angel :angelright-kind-of-freaky, :razz: okay?), so don't stop.:giggle::crush:

 

[borndem]

BBM

Hi Bash :seeya: Thanks for your comments!

BUT.... I do have to say, that regardless of what the other doctors did or didn't do to contribute to MJ's "condition",
Conrad Murray was the only one who actually caused the death of MJ.... by his grossly negligent actions and his
grossly negligent non-actions. And that's all the trial was about. Period. Did CM cause MJ's death? Yes or No? Guilty or Not?

The only drugs in MJ's system when he died, from the autopsy report, were the meds that CM gave MJ in the days & hours prior to MJ's death.

There may be other doctors in the past who "treated" MJ... who also were negligent or were not acting in MJ's best interest re his health.
But THIS trial was only about MJ's death and what caused it.

Every single thing that caused MJ's death, and there were several factors, leads to Conrad Murray and his not acting as a good doctor should have!

What caused Michael Jackson's death WAS NOT his addictions, NOT his insomnia, NOT the rehearsals, NOR whether he would be able to perform the next day, NOR his lifestyle, NOR his age, NOR how much medication was in his system, NOR his health, NOR employees, Nor pharmacists, NOR other doctors, NOR pressure for the Tour to go on, NOR MJ's begging, pleading, demanding CM to give him propofol.

None of those caused or were contributing factors in MJ's death!

Nobody else & nothing else was on trial, nor should have been on trial, because on the day Michael Jackson died,
it was only Conrad Murray that caused Michael Jackson's death.

............................................................:turkey:

:bigfight: :fireworks: :fireworks2:

:candle: ........Way to cook that Turkey, peace. Good Post!

 

[peace9274]

Vinnie P on Prime News HLN:

"The more Conrad Murray speaks, the more sick to my stomach I get!"

The comment, above, was in reference to the Today Show interviews.
It was one of the show's (Vinnie's) opening comments about a story he'll
cover, coming up after the bigger news story, The Penn State Scandal.

Vinnie: (before commercial break) "What did CM say took place outside MJ's bedroom? Steam will come outta your ears!"

(FYI: Conrad picks his ear during the interview... )

Vinnie just said: (after the interview clip of CM giving his reason for not calling 911.) "Auuugggggggghhhhhhh!!!!!"
I think I saw fire & smoke coming out of Vinnie's mouth.... & ears!!!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I havent even seen the documentary yet and I am already steaming.:furious:

I find this man truly despicable. He seems to be a full blown narcissist who of course never takes responsibility for their own wrongdoings. The name of the game for him is to place the blame on the dead and voiceless victim.

Under that affable faux appearance is a man that is not a very nice man at all. A man who resented that Michael was the center of attention so he tries to demean him even in death by revealing private matters that no honorable ethical doctor would ever reveal. He didn't have to do it. He wanted to do it so he could stick the knife in MJs family even deeper.

And this is the same man who claims he loves Katherine, Paris, Prince and Blanket yet he says things publicly because he knows that it will hurt them. This man had no love in his heart.

He even abandons his own children. No wonder Katherine said "I cant even stand to look at that man":innocent: when asked about him saying how much he loved her. He tries to hurt them all. Why? Because deep down he is a very mean man with a cruel streak.

What he is good at is manipulation. Manipulating young women into believing his was some big shot sugar daddy when he was as broke as a shattered mirror. Pretending he was a caring doctor to the poor yet didn't even care enough to hire medical assistances but manipulated three women to volunteer to work for free. Manipulating uneducated people into thinking they were going to die if they didn't have stint after stint after stint after stint....sometimes as high as 17. He knew they trusted him just like he knew MJ trusted him.

He is the type of person that can be asked a simple direct question and he will never simply answer the question asked. Always bobbing and weaving and very evasive.

If anyone manipulated anyone........Murray manipulated MJ. He got him to trust him and that was a fatal mistake because Murray only had dollar signs in his eyes instead of upholding his Hippocratic oath.

It was obvious he loved the power he thought it brought him. That is why he told everyone to 'butt out' when they were concerned about MJ and he was rude and arrogant when he said he would take care of MJ and we saw what happened under MurrayCare.

So as a full blown narcissist who has manipulated others for a very long time he really thinks that when people watch him lie they will believe him hook, line and sinker.

The thing about it his story is filled with so many inconsistencies and defies common sense and logic.

For instances... if MJ was just asleep as Murray claims and no longer under the influence of propofol then there would be absolutely no reason for Murray to still be at the mansion any longer. His job would have been done. There would be no reason for him to go back in to the room and check on a sleeping man.

He lies and his lies run deep. IMO, the lies didnt just start when he killed Michael Jackson. :maddening:

 

[peace9274]

It's on MSNBC - it has two separate time slots, each is titled,"Michael Jackson and the Doctor." The 1st one is 10:00 -- 11:00pm EST, and the second is 11:00 -- 12:00midnight. No idea if the second is a repeat or a second installment.

Be sure to pop some popcorn, and it would be a good idea also to pop a couple of Valium, wear hip-waders, bring a puke-bucket, and towel to chew on when you wanna scream & shout. :furious:

The guide on my TV says "Michael Jackson and The Doctor" will be aired at 8-9 pm & immediately following at 9-10 pm.

I guess it's being televised so everyone sees it at the same time. If so, I guess PST would be 7-8 pm & 8-9 pm

It will be interesting to see if that's part 1 & part 2 of the documentary and not a repeat of the first one... in the second time period.

IRC, the film is approx 90 minutes long... so it makes sense that it is parts 1 & 2.... and allowing for commercial breaks.

 

[outofstatelawyer]

bbm

hi bash :seeya: Thanks for your comments!

But.... I do have to say, that regardless of what the other doctors did or didn't do to contribute to mj's "condition",
conrad murray was the only one who actually caused the death of mj.... By his grossly negligent actions and his
grossly negligent non-actions. And that's all the trial was about. Period. Did cm cause mj's death? Yes or no? Guilty or not?

The only drugs in mj's system when he died, from the autopsy report, were the meds that cm gave mj in the days & hours prior to mj's death.

There may be other doctors in the past who "treated" mj... Who also were negligent or were not acting in mj's best interest re his health.
But this trial was only about mj's death and what caused it.

Every single thing that caused mj's death, and there were several factors, leads to conrad murray and his not acting as a good doctor should have!

What caused michael jackson's death was not his addictions, not his insomnia, not the rehearsals, nor whether he would be able to perform the next day, nor his lifestyle, nor his age, nor how much medication was in his system, nor his health, nor employees, nor pharmacists, nor other doctors, nor pressure for the tour to go on, nor mj's begging, pleading, demanding cm to give him propofol.

None of those caused or were contributing factors in mj's death!

Nobody else & nothing else was on trial, nor should have been on trial, because on the day michael jackson died,
it was only conrad murray that caused michael jackson's death.

brava! Brava!

 

[peace9274]

I havent even seen the documentary yet and I am already steaming.:furious:

I find this man truly despicable. He seems to be a full blown narcissist who of course never takes responsibility for their own wrongdoings. The name of the game for him is to place the blame on the dead and voiceless victim.

Under that affable faux appearance is a man that is not a very nice man at all. A man who resented that Michael was the center of attention so he tries to demean him even in death by revealing private matters that no honorable ethical doctor would ever reveal. He didn't have to do it. He wanted to do it so he could stick the knife in MJs family even deeper.

And this is the same man who claims he loves Katherine, Paris, Prince and Blanket yet he says things publicly because he knows that it will hurt them. This man had no love in his heart.

He even abandons his own children. No wonder Katherine said "I cant even stand to look at that man":innocent: when asked about him saying how much he loved her. He tries to hurt them all. Why? Because deep down he is a very mean man with a cruel streak.

What he is good at is manipulation. Manipulating young women into believing his was some big shot sugar daddy when he was as broke as a shattered mirror. Pretending he was a caring doctor to the poor yet didn't even care enough to hire medical assistances but manipulated three women to volunteer to work for free. Manipulating uneducated people into thinking they were going to die if they didn't have stint after stint after stint after stint....sometimes as high as 17. He knew they trusted him just like he knew MJ trusted him.

He is the type of person that can be asked a simple direct question and he will never simply answer the question asked. Always bobbing and weaving and very evasive.

If anyone manipulated anyone........Murray manipulated MJ. He got him to trust him and that was a fatal mistake because Murray only had dollar signs in his eyes instead of upholding his Hippocratic oath.

It was obvious he loved the power he thought it brought him. That is why he told everyone to 'butt out' when they were concerned about MJ and he was rude and arrogant when he said he would take care of MJ and we saw what happened under MurrayCare.

So as a full blown narcissist who has manipulated others for a very long time he really thinks that when people watch him lie they will believe him hook, line and sinker. Only a rabid MJ hater would buy into this crap, imo.

The thing about it his story is filled with so many inconsistencies and defies common sense and logic.

For instances... if MJ was just asleep as Murray claims and no longer under the influence of propofol then there would be absolutely no reason for Murray to still be at the mansion any longer. His job would have been done. There would be no reason for him to go back in to the room and check on a sleeping man.

He lies and his lies run deep. IMO, the lies didnt just start when he killed Michael Jackson. :maddening:

oceanblueeyes... Good post!!! That manipulation you speak of and describe so well of CM,
is also know as a form of "Gaslighting" (from the movie "Gaslight" in which a man who is after
his wife's money, manipulates her into thinking she is crazy... stars Ingrid Bergman, Charles Boyer).

However, in CM's case, he is trying to gaslight the whole world into thinking "We must be crazy and CM is right."

He can't answer a question without making it seem as though he did nothing wrong:
"I didn't stay in the room with MJ because I wanted him to sleep. I didn't want to pull on his foot and wake him."

Or my favorite: "If I refused to treat MJ and take care of him, I would be abandoning my good friend."

Can you imagine being with or living with a man who is sooo passive/aggressive in his personality and his lies??????

To Conrad Murray... your answers do not make one bit of sense what-so-ever!!! And I do not believe that phony sadness of yours!!!
And, please, stop picking your nose and your ears in public & when the camera is on you!!!

Tonight, while watching CM talk and hearing all that he will be saying (his lying) and in that
pathetic tone of voice of his.... during the film.... I hope that I can just think of him as any
other person (patient) who has a Sociopathic Personality Disorder with Narcissistic Traits!!!

I hope I do not allow myself to get too angry!!!

 

[Tugela]

BBM

Hi Bash :seeya: Thanks for your comments!

BUT.... I do have to say, that regardless of what the other doctors did or didn't do to contribute to MJ's "condition",
Conrad Murray was the only one who actually caused the death of MJ.... by his grossly negligent actions and his
grossly negligent non-actions. And that's all the trial was about. Period. Did CM cause MJ's death? Yes or No? Guilty or Not?

The only drugs in MJ's system when he died, from the autopsy report, were the meds that CM gave MJ in the days & hours prior to MJ's death.

There may be other doctors in the past who "treated" MJ... who also were negligent or were not acting in MJ's best interest re his health.
But THIS trial was only about MJ's death and what caused it.

Every single thing that caused MJ's death, and there were several factors, leads to Conrad Murray and his not acting as a good doctor should have!

What caused Michael Jackson's death WAS NOT his addictions, NOT his insomnia, NOT the rehearsals, NOR whether he would be able to perform the next day, NOR his lifestyle, NOR his age, NOR how much medication was in his system, NOR his health, NOR employees, Nor pharmacists, NOR other doctors, NOR pressure for the Tour to go on, NOR MJ's begging, pleading, demanding CM to give him propofol.

None of those caused or were contributing factors in MJ's death!

Nobody else & nothing else was on trial, nor should have been on trial, because on the day Michael Jackson died,
it was only Conrad Murray that caused Michael Jackson's death.

That is not really fair, Jackson was clearly the one commisioning the behaviour, the bulk of the responsibility is his. I am sick of people making excuses for addicts and absolving them of responsibility - the truth is that the responsibilty is entirely theirs.

As far as Murray's culpability is concerned, if it wasn't him it would have been someone else. The question should be, under the circumstances was the "treatment" the best course of action? Most doctors would have walked away because they would regard it as unorthodox and unethical. So they would leave the patient to self medicate, but is that any more ethical knowing that the patient would be more at risk? This is not a situation with a bad doctor writing scripts for an addict, but an actual treatment allbeit unconventional.

Murray is being convicted because the standard of care was not that which would be offered in a hospital, but this wasn't a hospital situation, so what really is the standard of care under those circumstances? There is no regulation about where propofol can be administered (nor for most other drugs for that matter), it is just the opinion of the doctor involved. It may be a good opinion or not, but doctors are allowed that freeway. In a larger sense this verdict will have a chilling effect on the medical profession in that it creates culpability in any treatment that is not absolutely orthodox (or not orthodox is some other doctors opinion). It may not be common knowledge but there is a vast off-label use of pharmaceuticals in situations that have nothing to do with addiction, in hospitals and elsewhere, and potentially all of that is now open to criminal charges if something unexpected happens.

 

[peace9274]

That is not really fair, Jackson was clearly the one commisioning the behaviour, the bulk of the responsibility is his. I am sick of people making excuses for addicts and absolving them of responsibility - the truth is that the responsibilty is entirely theirs.

As far as Murray's culpability is concerned, if it wasn't him it would have been someone else. The question should be, under the circumstances was the "treatment" the best course of action? Most doctors would have walked away because they would regard it as unorthodox and unethical. So they would leave the patient to self medicate, but is that any more ethical knowing that the patient would be more at risk? This is not a situation with a bad doctor writing scripts for an addict, but an actual treatment allbeit unconventional.

Murray is being convicted because the standard of care was not that which would be offered in a hospital, but this wasn't a hospital situation, so what really is the standard of care under those circumstances? There is no regulation about where propofol can be administered (nor for most other drugs for that matter), it is just the opinion of the doctor involved. It may be a good opinion or not, but doctors are allowed that freeway. In a larger sense this verdict will have a chilling effect on the medical profession in that it creates culpability in any treatment that is not absolutely orthodox (or not orthodox is some other doctors opinion). It may not be common knowledge but there is a vast off-label use of pharmaceuticals in situations that have nothing to do with addiction, in hospitals and elsewhere, and potentially all of that is now open to criminal charges if something unexpected happens.

You are right, Tugela. If it weren't CM it would have been someone else committing the crime.
And THAT doctor would be the one in jail right now. Not CM.

I see no difference in this situation and these hypothetical situations:

1.) MJ begs, pleads, demands that Dr Klein perform cosmetic surgery in MJ's bedroom with none of the sterile techniques & areas &
instruments. But, MJ dies from sepsis, anesthesia, or any other number of things. Dr Klein would be the one charged with committing a crime...
for his gross negligence and that which caused MJ's death.

2.) MJ begs, pleads, demands that CM rob a bank for him... MJ gives CM a big sob story, tells CM that he is broke... blah blah blah.
CM decides to do this for his suffering & very good friend! CM robs a bank, but gets caught doing so.
Who is charged with committing a crime?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

That is not really fair, Jackson was clearly the one commissioning the behaviour, the bulk of the responsibility is his. I am sick of people making excuses for addicts and absolving them of responsibility - the truth is that the responsibility is entirely theirs.

As far as Murray's culpability is concerned, if it wasn't him it would have been someone else. The question should be, under the circumstances was the "treatment" the best course of action? Most doctors would have walked away because they would regard it as unorthodox and unethical. So they would leave the patient to self medicate, but is that any more ethical knowing that the patient would be more at risk? This is not a situation with a bad doctor writing scripts for an addict, but an actual treatment allbeit unconventional.

Murray is being convicted because the standard of care was not that which would be offered in a hospital, but this wasn't a hospital situation, so what really is the standard of care under those circumstances? There is no regulation about where propofol can be administered (nor for most other drugs for that matter), it is just the opinion of the doctor involved. It may be a good opinion or not, but doctors are allowed that freeway. In a larger sense this verdict will have a chilling effect on the medical profession in that it creates culpability in any treatment that is not absolutely orthodox (or not orthodox is some other doctors opinion). It may not be common knowledge but there is a vast off-label use of pharmaceuticals in situations that have nothing to do with addiction, in hospitals and elsewhere, and potentially all of that is now open to criminal charges if something unexpected happens.

Of course its fair. MJ did not twist the arm of Murray. He jumped at the chance and was already ordering propofol in April and continued to order over 4 gallons.

I don't agree. It is the total responsibility of the licensed doctor to say "no'. An addict is not held to same standard as a doctor who swore to 'do no harm' nor should the addict be held to the same high standard. So saying the addict has full responsibility is not based on common sense nor the law. Even drug dealers are held accountability when they give bad drugs to addicts causing their death.

There is no evidence that MJ ever self medicated propofol. If he had then he would not have needed Murray at 150K per month.

Also none of us can read tealeaves and say MJ would have been killed by another doctor.:innocent: There is no evidence of that either and it is known that other doctors (anesthesiologists) in the past had administered propofol when MJ went on tour. MJ did not die. The doctor knew the patient had to be monitored at all times and he had to have the proper equipment in case something went wrong. Murray did neither. So YES....because of Murray, ONLY, MJ is dead and justice has been served.

Murray was convicted not because he committed an unlawful act but it was due to his negligence and totally recklessness a man lost his life. MJ committed no criminal act either.

Murray is lucky. Another doctor in California was convicted this year for using lidocaine in a home setting (which he had made into a home made clinic) and the immigrant patient died too due negligence and recklessness.

Imo, trying to blame a person who has an addiction disease instead of the doctor who has a legal duty to his patient is sidestepping the issue at hand in the case against MURRAY. This case was about what HE did or what he DID not do.

A doctor cannot abandon a patient who is under the influence of an anesthetic no matter where it is administered. The patient can stop breathing at any moment and that is exactly what happened and Murray was no where around to save MJ.

Justice was served!

IMO

 

[MissJames]

That is not really fair, Jackson was clearly the one commisioning the behaviour, the bulk of the responsibility is his. I am sick of people making excuses for addicts and absolving them of responsibility - the truth is that the responsibilty is entirely theirs.

As far as Murray's culpability is concerned, if it wasn't him it would have been someone else. The question should be, under the circumstances was the "treatment" the best course of action? Most doctors would have walked away because they would regard it as unorthodox and unethical. So they would leave the patient to self medicate, but is that any more ethical knowing that the patient would be more at risk? This is not a situation with a bad doctor writing scripts for an addict, but an actual treatment allbeit unconventional.

Murray is being convicted because the standard of care was not that which would be offered in a hospital, but this wasn't a hospital situation, so what really is the standard of care under those circumstances? There is no regulation about where propofol can be administered (nor for most other drugs for that matter), it is just the opinion of the doctor involved. It may be a good opinion or not, but doctors are allowed that freeway. In a larger sense this verdict will have a chilling effect on the medical profession in that it creates culpability in any treatment that is not absolutely orthodox (or not orthodox is some other doctors opinion). It may not be common knowledge but there is a vast off-label use of pharmaceuticals in situations that have nothing to do with addiction, in hospitals and elsewhere, and potentially all of that is now open to criminal charges if something unexpected happens.

BBM blue
But it WAS Murray,and not someone else.

BBM Red

If it was okay and his right to choose to administer propofol in a home setting,why did he lie to the distributor and tell him the address was his clinic instead of his home? For that matter,why didn't he just have it shipped to his office?
He knew it was wrong.
JMO