UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[Rookie D]

Hi all

Here's a little teaser here...

Interesting that exactly one week after the disappearance of SL, when the police got WPC Suzanne Long to play the part of SL for a police reconstruction, that parked outside Sturgis on Chesilton Road, there was a dark coloured BMW captured in the shot.

The BMW appears to be a convertible.

Let's not forget that this reconstruction was filmed on Monday 4th August 1986, way before a BMW is even mentioned.

It's also fascinating that as WPC Suzanne Long walks out of the doorway, a man appears in the background as he walks into shot, and stands momentarily to watch. He can seen through the reflection of the mirror. As Suzanne then walks past the window, the man walks off. One would assume that this was the police officer who played Mr Kipper for the reconstruction, because if it wasn't then...

Can you imagine.

 

[Rookie D]

And of course, if those images of that parked BMW from the very first reconstruction can be enhanced and the number plate of that dark BMW deciphered, and then that turns out to match a left hand drive BMW...then there's a good chance that the abduction vehicle is right there staring us in the face.

And has been all along

Where's the one place you'd least expect to find the car used to abduct SL a week after it happened?

Parked outside Sturgis of course.

And is that Mr Kipper standing there in the reflection of the doorway?

Surely not.

But stranger things have happened.


As I said before, if this case is to be solved, then don't think like the police; think like the killer.

 

[GTB72]

Hi If you read the AS book on page 28.

Calvert told the dectectives at about 9.45 he borrowed Susannahs Ford Fiesta to take a client to a house in Foskett Road. Returning 20 minutes later and parking the car in Whittingstall Road, a street off Fulham Road and opposite the Sturgis office.

'Because Calvert was a small man, he used the same driving position as Susannah, - the seat about four or five notches back from its most forward position. It was not unusual for him to borrow someone elses office car, because one of his duties was to photograph all Sturgis houses on the market in the area- and he did not have a car of his own.'

If you have not read the books I would really recommend doing so. (starting with Andrew Stephens publication in 1988 (The Suzy Lamplugh Story). This is where the bulk of this information is coming from as is is noted as the best source of information even still to this day. This books publication created huge controversy particularly for the L family (even though they commissioned it) as in the course of AS investigations it became apparent that her personal life was way more complicated than her family knew or chose to believe. This book was written with the cooperation of the police at the time, the journalists access to police files, SLs diaries and interviews with her friends.

This 1988 book was written PRE Cannan - this is very important to keep in mind.

There are also 100's of press articles from 1986 -87 detailing information from her friends and family that do not appear in the book.

Next book is

David Videcettes 'Finding Suzy' in 2021 ,
Ex Met Detective who dedicated 3 years of his life and his own funds to putting an alternative theory to the JC did it scenario.
He put a case to the MET about what he thought, but there are glaring gaps in this book that cannot be ignored (ie ignores BW sighting altogether) . Now his interviews with some of the Sturgis staff in this book are a little conflicting from what was conveyed in 86 - but that could be due to the passage of time.

You can find the books on Ebay ( but the 1988 one is available to read on the Internet Archive website (you have to check it out to read it)

Another book is called 'Prime Suspect' by Christopher Berry Dee and Robin Odell, who basically wrote this book about JC and his crimes, and had contact with him whilst he was in prison (after the SB murder). It does not focus on SL alot but it does provide a fair bit of insight into JCs character.

If anyone is quoting a source (ie Foskett Road )can you please reference it so we all know where it is coming from ? That would be lovely

Hi Rookie D

Thankyou - Yep absolutely get that. I would not however put AS book in this category because he was not selling the book . The money went to the trust. Happy to reference you the articles again I have posted upthread about this.
If there is one book you should read it is this one.

No one here who has been on this case for years would say its the absolute holy grail, but its the closest thing to the factual police investigation at the time that is available.

I will put the articles up again for you to read so it gives you some context. This journalist was deeply hurt about the work he put into this book (and yes it revealed some truths about SL that her parents did not want to accept).

I would love to be able to speak to him in 2026 about his experience and his research.

Slightly off topic here, but what was your take on the book? I thought it was quite respectful to SJL but obviously the Lamplugh's thought differently. Do you think it was the reference to prostitution that stuck in their craw?

I thought the author was quite clear that that was the Police's thinking since Suzy seemed to manage her money very well for someone who was a Estate Agent.

The Police quickly dismissed this though. I think it was more a example of Policethink and methods in the 80's.

I thought the Lamplugh's came across as quite entitled but of course if I were in their position I would be more likely just as forceful.

Imo, DL and PL's objections to the book were more likely as a result of how they, and as a consequence the family were depicted.

 

[kes1972]

Hi all

Here's a little teaser here...

Interesting that exactly one week after the disappearance of SL, when the police got WPC Suzanne Long to play the part of SL for a police reconstruction, that parked outside Sturgis on Chesilton Road, there was a dark coloured BMW captured in the shot.

The BMW appears to be a convertible.

Let's not forget that this reconstruction was filmed on Monday 4th August 1986, way before a BMW is even mentioned.

It's also fascinating that as WPC Suzanne Long walks out of the doorway, a man appears in the background as he walks into shot, and stands momentarily to watch. He can seen through the reflection of the mirror. As Suzanne then walks past the window, the man walks off. One would assume that this was the police officer who played Mr Kipper for the reconstruction, because if it wasn't then...

View attachment 650303
View attachment 650302

Can you imagine.

Great spot
I wonder if anyone on facebook can clean up/enhance that photo as they are very good at doing so!

 

[kes1972]

And of course, if those images of that parked BMW from the very first reconstruction can be enhanced and the number plate of that dark BMW deciphered, and then that turns out to match a left hand drive BMW...then there's a good chance that the abduction vehicle is right there staring us in the face.

And has been all along

Where's the one place you'd least expect to find the car used to abduct SL a week after it happened?

Parked outside Sturgis of course.

And is that Mr Kipper standing there in the reflection of the doorway?

Surely not.

But stranger things have happened.


As I said before, if this case is to be solved, then don't think like the police; think like the killer.

 

[kes1972]

Possibly used by a sturgis employee from another office?

 

[Rookie D]

Possibly used by a sturgis employee from another office?

An estate agent who chooses to drive a dark convertible BMW, speaks "manager" to me.

Would fit the likes of "Mr Kipper" like a glove.

 

[lee sumner]

I mentioned later if the photograher was @37sr waiting sl turns up, no client because there never was one, another work fiesta or fiesta turns up double parks sl knows this person who then says client has gone to another address photograher drives her car to sr and sl is taken elsewhere unaware of what is going to happen.this explains man and woman outside 37 who was indeed sl and photographer or 2nd driver.

interesting. a witness did see fiesta double parked, so you could be right. i think SL went to 37SR, but did not go inside.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Hi Rookie D

Thankyou - Yep absolutely get that. I would not however put AS book in this category because he was not selling the book . The money went to the trust. Happy to reference you the articles again I have posted upthread about this.
If there is one book you should read it is this one.

No one here who has been on this case for years would say its the absolute holy grail, but its the closest thing to the factual police investigation at the time that is available.

I will put the articles up again for you to read so it gives you some context. This journalist was deeply hurt about the work he put into this book (and yes it revealed some truths about SL that her parents did not want to accept).

I would love to be able to speak to him in 2026 about his experience and

Slightly off topic here, but what was your take on the book? I thought it was quite respectful to SJL but obviously the Lamplugh's thought differently. Do you think it was the reference to prostitution that stuck in their craw?

I thought the author was quite clear that that was the Police's thinking since Suzy seemed to manage her money very well for someone who was a Estate Agent.

The Police quickly dismissed this though. I think it was more a example of Policethink and methods in the 80's.

I thought the Lamplugh's came across as quite entitled but of course if I were in their position I would be more likely just as forceful.

Imo, DL and PL's objections to the book were more likely as a result of how they, and as a consequence the family were depicted.

There were 'serious allegations' about her private life held back. I think AS perhaps hints at these in the book.

I think there were some crossed wires on the nature of the commissioned book (AS). AS thinking it was an independent 'tell all' and DL and PL taking it for granted AS would be very concerned wtih the appropriate censorship of potentially inflammatory or sensitive material in her personal diaries. I think it's possible they handed all her diaries and letters to AS without having read them themselves. What was the reason for the Lamplughs wanting someone to write a book? To find SL? Discover what happened? As a tribute to her?

As it stood it felt like a trashing and tarnishing of SL's memory.

More than that DL didn't like the way she came across in it, a fuss pot who wrote very banal round robin letters was her interpretation. That the family found 'boring' she wanted these edited out apparently. Really agreeing editing rights up front would have been a good idea perhaps, but we have mother in the depths of grief here understandably not wanting to read unflattering things about herself. Writing a book herself, DL, might have been what she really wanted or needed to do as per her open letters to SL despite her being missing.

DL/PL were very careful about who they commissioned and thought AS was an excellent journalist and good candaite to write the book. They considered a few 'authors' and gave this real thought and attention.

 

[kes1972]

Possibly used by a sturgis employee from another office?

Big boss ?

 

[lee sumner]

He would know this because mg went ot 37sr twice and the second time spoke. With hr and could have intimated anything in the conversation.

i see what your saying. MG could have said something about looking for his employee SL, then HR now knows why he has gone to 37SR, this then gives HR thinking time to say he seen SL and mystery man/mr kipper outside 37SR. we would have to see the original case file to know what was said between MG and HR.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Interesting thoughts.

On a BMW - basic, secondhand, but roadworthy, was told by an ex dealer between £350-1,400 in 86. LHD cheaper. Will have a look to see how much poss models (below) cost at time.

There was a car dealer that sold LHD BMWs etc in vicinity.

How much was a 1968-74 possible LHD & separately, RHD, BMW 2.5 or 2.8 litre engine, to buy in 1986? As seen outside Shorrolds. BMW 518 with four doors?

LHD models were generally at the cheaper end of price range above. Could JC have dabbled in the odd bit of car buying & selling? It’s possible. His thing. We have evidence SL was in touch with a contact about buying a car around time of disappearance. JC effectively bought the Sierra too.

He also hired cars - to see SM in West Country, to take DT to Birmingham etc.

If JC had access to his father’s legacy he could have afforded a basic BMW or secondhand quality car. Maybe even without it - the odds are reasonable to good he had a hand in SuperHire break-ins in June-July 86. His spending apparently increased from May.

Later thought to be a 2500 as below by police.

Reposting as visual on the BMW thought to be involved by police early on. Navy blue & poss a smaller model but in this vein.

 

[lee sumner]

Interesting.

So that must mean that SL had her flat keys on a separate key fob, because otherwise James Calvert would of had access to SL's flat if he borrowed the Fiesta that was driven in by SL that morning.

yes, SL had her flat keys on a separate key fob. the large yellow sturgis key fob.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

yes, SL had her flat keys on a separate key fob. the large yellow sturgis key fob.

P. 29 AS

"She was carrying her purse too, and a ring holding the keys of her car, the office and her flat"

 

[lee sumner]

Well i will agree to differ, many people have mentioned in the past how similar the phoofit is (on these threads) and ( on these threads) it is mentioned he went to the address with colleague.

they must be blind then. detective carter and his team thought it was funny how people rang crimewatch to say MG looks like mr kipper. people dont always see the same. iam a big fan of occams principle way of thinking. and this thinking needs to be applied in the lamplugh case.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

they must be blind then. detective carter and his team thought it was funny how people rang crimewatch to say MG looks like mr kipper. people dont always see the same. iam a big fan of occams principle way of thinking. and this thinking needs to be applied in the lamplugh case.

I am surprised no one rang in on Valerio Viccei - even the eyebrows match…Perhaps they did.

 

[WestLondoner]

they must be blind then. detective carter and his team thought it was funny how people rang crimewatch to say MG looks like mr kipper.

Which was extremely foolish of them. Those calls should have been understood as a warning either that HR was describing not "Kipper" but a legitimate visitor to 37SR; or, that his description of one visitor might be unwittingly contaminated by his recollection of another. The differences between the sketch and the efit, which are clearly not the same person, should have underscored this.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

i see what your saying. MG could have said something about looking for his employee SL, then HR now knows why he has gone to 37SR, this then gives HR thinking time to say he seen SL and mystery man/mr kipper outside 37SR. we would have to see the original case file to know what was said between MG and HR.

AS P.8 implies that MG and a 'colleague' visited 37 Shorrolds in late afternoon/early eve for the first ttime and spoke to HR then. By which time HR had already seen the couple outside.

About 3:30-5pm approx from AS. He called DL.:

"Have you checked the hospitals? Been back to the house? Told the police' Mrs Lamplugh fired at MG. He had indeed been back to 37 Shorrolds with a colleauge, but had found no sign of Susannah in or out of the house, and no indication anything was amiss. But a neighbour...HR...had told them he saw a young man and woman leaving 37 next door and looking up appraisingly as they did so"

"An hour later PL began the daily commuter's evening trudge from Mortlake Station"

So MG went around first about 3:30-5pm and spoke to HR for the first time.
He went back to the house after calling hospitals (p.10 AS) to the police station, but long queue, went to viewing and then called the police at 6:45pm after returning to Shorrolds. So back again about 6pm.

The key thing to note is he spoke to HR on his first visit to 37 Shorrolds, so HR couldn't have confused MG and colleague for the couple he saw.