Convictions of Murder Without A Body

[ShouldBWorking]

We have a case in Ohio (30 miles from my house) where there was a conviction without a body, anyone know others would like to hope there is a chance if Caylee isn't found alive that Casey will pay.

Facts

Justice For Vince

Web Sleuth

 

[JBean]

Good thread, I have been thinking about this.

I am just not sure she could be convicted. My fear is that if she should be acquitted and then in the future they find the child, she can't be tried again.

At this point, I find this to be a tough call. But we do not have all the facts either.

 

[SusieClue]

I think I heard one lawyer on the news say - there is no doubt that she would be convicted as is...it is the appeal that we have to worry about...

 

[ShouldBWorking]

I think I heard one lawyer on the news say - there is no doubt that she would be convicted as is...it is the appeal that we have to worry about...

do you have a link for this would love to read that article my fear is she will walk at this point with a few years

 

[Chilly Willy]

I think I heard one lawyer on the news say - there is no doubt that she would be convicted as is...it is the appeal that we have to worry about...

But convicted of what? If the "sources" are correct, LE is leaning toward accidental death as a possibility. It's possible that Casey wouldn't even do jail time for that.

 

[ShouldBWorking]

But convicted of what? If the "sources" are correct, LE is leaning toward accidental death as a possibility. It's possible that Casey wouldn't even do jail time for that.

I thought someone here said just for the current charges she could be sentenced to 6 years. Am I wrong?

 

[SusieClue]

do you have a link for this would love to read that article my fear is she will walk at this point with a few years

HMMM...I saw it on Fox, so I will look for a link for a transcript...may take awhile!

 

[Chilly Willy]

I thought someone here said just for the current charges she could be sentenced to 6 years. Am I wrong?

Could is the key word - we'd have to know what the minimum sentence is, and then there's also the possibility of a plea to a lesser charge that might simply result in probation.

ETA: Often the sentences for various charges run concurrently too, for instance if she got 3 years for charge A and three years for charge B, she would still only serve 3 years, or less with good behavior.

 

[krimekat]

google murder convictions without body and there are many examples of cases being sought

 

[ShouldBWorking]

Florida case with another child

 

[luvbeaches]

Richard Grissom is now serving his time in a Kansas Prison for the murders of three women (their bodies have never been found). Paul Morrison was the prosecutor.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2005/jan/09/serial_killers_make/

 

[LinasK]

Hans Reiser was just convicted of murder of his wife Nina, without the body, then he gave it up upon sentencing!:behindbar:behindbar:behindbar

In Hans's case there was blood on the banister, also he cut the seat out of his car, they found books on murder in his car, and his son witnessed him carrying out a big, heavy bag.

 

[coltsgal]

Didn't she say "They've already said they're going to pin this on me if they dont find Caylee" ???

IMO, if Caylee was safe somewhere, she would give it up, otherwise she knows she's facing a murder trial. Since she hasn't said where Caylee is...well, that only leaves us to assume the latter.

 

[deejaye]

Helle Crafts, the woodchipper murder comes to mind. Although I guess technically they found (forgive the crassness) a few bits of her.

There's another one that I think was convicted after the FBI did research on a blood stain found at the scene. After they couldn't get DNA, they experiemented to see how much blood it would've taken to get that big of a stain and once it was determined that there was more blood comprising that stain than a human could lose and survive, they had their "body", in a manner of speaking.

 

[impatientredhead]

Helle Crafts, the woodchipper murder comes to mind. Although I guess technically they found (forgive the crassness) a few bits of her.

There's another one that I think was convicted after the FBI did research on a blood stain found at the scene. After they couldn't get DNA, they experiemented to see how much blood it would've taken to get that big of a stain and once it was determined that there was more blood comprising that stain than a human could lose and survive, they had their "body", in a manner of speaking.

I have spent a ton of time trying to find the answer to whether they can determine if the stain came from dead body, it appears that the answer is they can get DNA but they can't say it came from a body. The only cases I could find were three like you mention, they found so much blood the person couldn't be alive. It doesn't sound like this stain is that big.

The other cases I found that didn't have a body had other incriminating evidence, like witnesses etc...

The air test that they were talking about this morning is newer technology and hasn't been used/challenged in court yet. Hopefully the evidence they haven't shared is really good, or my research skills suck and you can determine if a stain came from a body.

 

[deejaye]

I have spent a ton of time trying to find the answer to whether they can determine if the stain came from dead body, it appears that the answer is they can get DNA but they can't say it came from a body. The only cases I could find were three like you mention, they found so much blood the person couldn't be alive. It doesn't sound like this stain is that big.

The other cases I found that didn't have a body had other incriminating evidence, like witnesses etc...

The air test that they were talking about this morning is newer technology and hasn't been used/challenged in court yet. Hopefully the evidence they haven't shared is really good, or my research skills suck and you can determine if a stain came from a body.

I did find some information on the sniffer that might be interesting...of course I can't find the link again. From what I know, it can be "taught" to look for any odor. Kind of like, you tell it what you're looking for and then it looks for a smell that matches. I'm pretty sure it was developed by Arpad Vass and that it has been used in court for other odors. You may be correct, however, that it has not been tested in court for decomp.

 

[GatorMom]

Thomas Campano is serving life (his dp was overturned on appeal) for the murder of Anne Marie Fahey. Her body was never found. And he is much smarter than this twit sitting in the Orange County Jail and his attorneys were much better than this Jose Whateverhisnameis.

I have no doubt that Casey Anthony would be convicted w/o a body. I do believe LE has more than they are saying (I always believe that). I am starting to think this theory of an accidental death is just their way of lulling Casey into a false sense of security so she will admit to what happened *because there is no way that woman is innocent* of killing her child. No way.

 

[Bruce's_Mom]

My concern is that without the body, with out the cause of death, with out a weapon, without a motive other than that she wanted to party, etc the circumstantial chain will not be strong enough on appeal.

Does anyone know if FL has a homicide by abuse or depraved indifference murder statute? Here in WA a person can be fould guilty of "Homicide by abuse,"which is something more than manslaughter but less than man1 or 2, if "under circumstances manifesting an extreme indifference to human life, the person causes the death of a child or person under sixteen years of age." Such a statute may provide a more safe charging option.

I am worried in this case that the family has behaved in such a way that many wrenches have been thrown into the investigation, that we do not even know about, that could rise to the level of constitutional problems. I am worried that all the media coverage has tainted any possible jury verdict, I am worried about the reliability of the body farm testing and whether or not it will stand up to daubert and be admissible. I just am plain worried.

 

[Bruce's_Mom]

I have spent a ton of time trying to find the answer to whether they can determine if the stain came from dead body, it appears that the answer is they can get DNA but they can't say it came from a body. The only cases I could find were three like you mention, they found so much blood the person couldn't be alive. It doesn't sound like this stain is that big.

There are fluids which may be in the stain unique to human decomposition. Upon putrafecation fluids with such lovely names as putrazine and cadaverine may be excreted. These could not come from a live body. It would really depend on the level of decomposition that occured in the car.

 

[LinasK]

My concern is that without the body, with out the cause of death, with out a weapon, without a motive other than that she wanted to party, etc the circumstantial chain will not be strong enough on appeal.

Hans Reiser was convicted without a body or a weapon. Scott Peterson was convicted without the cause of death or a weapon. Wanting to party and a lifestyle free of the person they murdered is motive enough- once again I direct you to Scott Peterson.