Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #100

[Lilibet]

This idea of rationing antibodies with a preference for those who are not vaccinated makes sense medically as those who are vaccinated are far less likely to have a severe case of covid.

The vaccinated people dying of breakthrough cases in my area (Southern Oregon) are the elderly, most of whom were vaccinated in January/February. Elderly immune systems are less robust as you know, even vaccinated. Combine that with the immunity wearing off now, and the vaccinated elderly have just as much need for the monoclonal antibody treatment as a younger person who refused to get vaccinated IMO. Of course, some of those younger unvaxxed ones feel that the elderly are expendable for their convenience, but I know you don’t feel that way. Those of us who are heading toward 80 and behaved responsibly should not be deprived of monoclonal antibodies when a breakthrough case can kill us. JMO MOO

 

[KALI]

Will you be dining inside a restaurant this winter?

I live in Louisiana early in the pandemic, our governor closed down restaurants and bars to help curb the pandemic. Food orders could be picked up but not eaten inside. Later on, as our numbers improved, bars and restaurants were allowed to inside dining and drinking. My husband and I are fully vaccinated and have only eaten in a restaurant with our vaccinated family while on vacation. I was uncomfortable. We went after lunch and the large restaurant had a few tables with guests. I have no desire to eat at a restaurant until times get better. However, we order out from local restaurants a couple of times a week. We tip the curbside delivery and drive-thru person the same as though we ate inside. Many of the restaurants have adapted to outdoor dining. We’ve even seen people arriving in their pickup truck, set up a folding table and chairs to enjoy their meal while listening to the band playing on the restaurant patio. There are a few restaurants that now have food trucks that advertise the menu, date, time, and location where they set up.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The vaccinated people dying of breakthrough cases in my area (Southern Oregon) are the elderly, most of whom were vaccinated in January/February. Elderly immune systems are less robust as you know, even vaccinated. Combine that with the immunity wearing off now, and the vaccinated elderly have just as much need for the monoclonal antibody treatment as a younger person who refused to get vaccinated IMO. Of course, some of those younger unvaxxed ones feel that the elderly are expendable for their convenience, but I know you don’t feel that way. Those of us who are heading toward 80 and behaved responsibly should not be deprived of monoclonal antibodies when a breakthrough case can kill us. JMO MOO

Some of the elderly who where vaccinated early this year are dying of Covid in your area? How many is that?

Maybe boosters should have been started earlier in order to save these people. JMO.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I remember dining out...sigh

I have not dined in any restaurant since early March 2020

 

[Yesiamapirate]

Will you be dining inside a restaurant this winter?

Yes. I am and will. Mr Pirate and I are fully vaccinated and have been dining indoors for months now. It is summer here in Michigan so we love eating outside but also enjoy sitting up at the bar having a meal and a beer.
I am not sure if Michigan is unique here but this summer things seem back to normal. We have been to a concert, Tigers games and back to our indoor gym. Crowds seem as usual.
I am hoping my age group can get a booster soon.
And to be clear, I am concerned about Covid and hope people get their vaccines.

 

[Lilibet]

Some of the elderly who where vaccinated early this year are dying of Covid in your area? How many is that?

Maybe boosters should have been started earlier in order to save these people. JMO.

Here is today’s chart from our area’s three-hospital system in Oregon’s Jackson and Josephine counties, covering cases during the last 7 days and deaths during the last 9o days (summer). The blue triangles represent those who are over 65 and vaccinated. There were 19 vaccinated deaths in the past 90 days (about 6/month) in that age range and 4 total in the vaccinated 18-64 age range. Obviously far fewer than the unvaccinated deaths, but it is happening, tragically. This chart does not count those who die at home and a surprising number do, as our daily lists show. Nor does it count cases at the other hospital (Providence) in Medford not part of Asante.

https://www.asante.org/app/files/pu...c2a8133/Asante_COVID-19_Cases_Infographic.pdf

This link covers all of Oregon and shows less visually that older vaccinated ones are dying at a greater rate than the younger vaxxed with breakthrough cases.
https://www.oregon.gov/oha/covid19/Documents/DataReports/Breakthrough-Case-Report.pdf

It would have been wonderful if boosters had been ready to be approved to start earlier and saved some of these lives! I will get mine at the first opportunity, possibly late November, 6 months from my second shot. We have had the monoclonal antibody treatment here since Jan. 27, so I hope it was given to vaccinated elderly and kept them alive, along with other treatments. It is now available drive-through with 4 shots, much quicker than the infusion I had. But the elderly are generally more medically fragile with weaker immune systems, so if they got vaccinated, they should get the monoclonal antibodies ahead of an person who was opposed to vaccinations until they got Covid. JMO It’s a real ethical dilemma. Hospitals want to help as many as possible, and the younger you are the better the outcome, vaxxed or unvaxxed. But it leaves those of us who are vaxxed and older feeling disposable if push comes to shove. JMO

 

[nightowl1975]

The vaccinated people dying of breakthrough cases in my area (Southern Oregon) are the elderly, most of whom were vaccinated in January/February. Elderly immune systems are less robust as you know, even vaccinated. Combine that with the immunity wearing off now, and the vaccinated elderly have just as much need for the monoclonal antibody treatment as a younger person who refused to get vaccinated IMO. Of course, some of those younger unvaxxed ones feel that the elderly are expendable for their convenience, but I know you don’t feel that way. Those of us who are heading toward 80 and behaved responsibly should not be deprived of monoclonal antibodies when a breakthrough case can kill us. JMO MOO

It would be reasonable IMO to make exceptions to this policy for the elderly and immunocompromised, especially until they’re able to get their booster shot.

 

[Lilibet]

It would be reasonable IMO to make exceptions to this policy for the elderly and immunocompromised, especially until they’re able to get their booster shot.

Thanks @nightowl1975. It seems reasonable to me too, especially in light of the vax-resistance in this area. They look at the chart I posted and claim it’s made up. Sigh.

 

[Cool Cats]

• Already posted
• Tennessee says vaccinated people should be last in line for antibody treatments to save them for the unvaccinated

 

[ilovewings]

I remember dining out...sigh

I so miss going out for big breakfast at IHOP- love their pancakes!!!

 

[musicaljoke]

"So, the emerging science suggests that natural immunity is as good as or better than vaccine-induced immunity."
Natural immunity to covid is powerful. Policymakers seem afraid to say so. - The Washington Post

I haven't located the actual study mentioned in the WoPo article. However other current research is still consistently reporting that vaccines give greater protection than relying on infection.

From the JAMA research study:
Seroprevalence data (antibodies to the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein) estimate that there may be 10 times more SARS-CoV-2 infections than the number of reported cases. Thus, it is possible that 40 million to 50 million (12% to 15% of the US population) to date may have been infected with a detectable serological response to SARS-CoV-2. However, relying on population-based natural immunity, especially for populations at risk of greater disease severity, is not wise. Boosting specific neutralizing antibodies and TH1 immunity to high levels with an effective vaccine regardless of prior immune status may further protect these individuals.

The induction of sufficient CD4+ follicular helper T cells and inclusion of vaccine boosts, employed for several other vaccines where circulating antibody levels are critical for protection, may be needed to maintain levels of anti–SARS-CoV-2 neutralizing antibodies. Boosting antiviral CD8+ and TH1 CD4+ T cells recognizing spike and epitopes from other conserved regions of the proteome may also be crucial in limiting replication and disease severity. SARS-COV-2 may well follow the path of previous coronaviruses and become endemic in the population as another common cold virus.

COVID-19 and the Path to Immunity

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I'm craving Barramundi, with salad and chips. I'm making myself hungry.

I guess I'll have to pay for the meal next time I have it. I used the two $25 NSW Dine and Discover vouchers for the Barramundi etc 2 weeks running before we got locked down.

I so miss going out for big breakfast at IHOP- love their pancakes!!!

 

[ilovewings]

I'm craving Barramundi, with salad and chips. I'm making myself hungry.

I guess I'll have to pay for the meal next time I have it. I used the two $25 NSW Dine and Discover vouchers for the Barramundi etc 2 weeks running before we got locked down.

I had to look up Barramundi- i had never heard of it!!! Hope you can have it soon!!!

 

[jjenny]

On the flip side of this, why do people who have had documented cases of Covid, with a medically approved "Positive" Covid-19 test, why is it mandatory for these folks to be vaccinated? They already have antibodies, and natural immunity.

So, when proof of vaccines are "mandatory", to go to work, activities...why do people who already had Covid have to be vaccinated?

Not sure. Originally we were told that natural immunity doesn't last long and is not very strong but that might not actually be the case. Anyhow, vaccination on top of covid infection appears to provide even stronger protection. So requiring people to be vaccinated even if they had covid will only make them even more immune.

 

[SouthAussie]

I haven't located the actual study mentioned in the WoPo article. However other current research is still consistently reporting that vaccines give greater protection than relying on infection.

From the JAMA research study:
Seroprevalence data (antibodies to the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein) estimate that there may be 10 times more SARS-CoV-2 infections than the number of reported cases. Thus, it is possible that 40 million to 50 million (12% to 15% of the US population) to date may have been infected with a detectable serological response to SARS-CoV-2. However, relying on population-based natural immunity, especially for populations at risk of greater disease severity, is not wise. Boosting specific neutralizing antibodies and TH1 immunity to high levels with an effective vaccine regardless of prior immune status may further protect these individuals.

The induction of sufficient CD4+ follicular helper T cells and inclusion of vaccine boosts, employed for several other vaccines where circulating antibody levels are critical for protection, may be needed to maintain levels of anti–SARS-CoV-2 neutralizing antibodies. Boosting antiviral CD8+ and TH1 CD4+ T cells recognizing spike and epitopes from other conserved regions of the proteome may also be crucial in limiting replication and disease severity. SARS-COV-2 may well follow the path of previous coronaviruses and become endemic in the population as another common cold virus.

COVID-19 and the Path to Immunity

The overview of the study is here, in Medical Life Sciences News. The actual study is available through downloading a PDF in the article.

Indications (in the lab) show that natural immunity may be around 60-80% up to 220 days (just over 7 months) post onset of infection.

Natural SARS-CoV-2 infection induces more durable immunity than vaccination study suggests

I personally know of a friend's unvaccinated relatives in TX who had covid in March 2020, and are just now recovering from a 2nd nasty bout of covid - both parents (late 40s) and a daughter (15 years old).
They are all puzzled because they didn't know that a person can have covid more than once.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Hello Knitty, let me ask you and everyone else this question...
Will you be going to restaurants, where you will eat inside with large groups of laughing, happy people?
Our customers want to eat outside on our open patio.
I, myself, only go to to restaurants where I can eat outside. Period.
There is not a meal on this planet that would entice me to dine inside a closed room with lots of people.
I pray that we can conquer this virus.
As a restaurant owner. The upcoming winter worries me.
I very much hope that I am worrying for no reason.
Question to members, will you be dinning indoors this winter?

Outdoor dining in Michigan is limited and seasonal due to our climate. Some restaurants in metro Detroit (I'm in Oakland County), set up "igloo" outdoor dining last winter for groups of 4 or more with an upcharge for the private dining facility. When DH and I go out to dinner, it is usually just the two of us and will probably be that way as long as there's a pandemic. We have been out to dinner a few times each month since the Covid restrictions were lifted in June but are only going to restaurants that are spacious enough to not pack people in like sardines. We are also limiting our dining choices to restaurants in Oakland County because we know that businesses have adhered to safety protocols throughout the pandemic.

We haven't been away from home since returning from a cruise in January, 2020 when the pandemic was just beginning. There was no long-planned Mediterranean cruise to celebrate DH's retirement last December and our 50th anniversary in June, and we won't be making our annual trek to Mackinac Island for DH's birthday next week. We won't be taking a winter vacation like we always have to escape Michigan winter for a couple of weeks on a cruise ship or a resort hotel. We're vaccinated and will get boosters when they are available to us. We are happy to finally be able to enjoy our favorite restaurants after the lengthy lockdowns and closures and will not deny ourselves this one small pleasure in life.

 

[weepingangel]

‘It’s really rough’: COVID-19 leading cause of death among law enforcement | WFLA



COVID-19: Law enforcement deaths

 

[ilovewings]

‘It’s really rough’: COVID-19 leading cause of death among law enforcement | WFLA



COVID-19: Law enforcement deaths

I have read that lots of police officers are not getting
vaccinated, though it doesnt say if this officer was
vaccinated

 

[Black Widow]

Will you be dining inside a restaurant this winter?

We avoided dining out for the entire pandemic until just a few days ago. We went to a White Spot ( Canadian) for our favorite eggs benny brunch. We had our Covid passports scanned proving we were double vaxxed and showed our drivers licenses to prove ID, as did all other customers. All in the restaurant, including small children wore masks unless directly sitting in their plexiglassed booths. Only the booths lining the walls were used. The centre section seating was left vacant. We were very impressed with the protocol, and it felt sooooo good to do something normal. We will have no hesitancy in returning there.

 

[LadyL]

Texas doctor fired for using leftover Covid-19 vaccine doses sues county for discrimination