Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #104

[CrimeAway]

I’ve been wondering why the UK death rate hasn’t peaked recently as much
as it has in the USA and Europe. Perhaps there is something in the different structure of the vaccine that has reduced deaths? Certainly, if you compare case vs death graphs, there is a marked difference in the curves. Our death rate HAS to increase now in light of a huge case rise,
so hopefully the data will become clearer in the next few weeks.

AstraZeneca may explain Britain’s lower death rate | News | The Times

UK:

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USA:

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I'm wondering if the extended spacing between the 1st and 2nd vaccine doses in the UK has allowed for a greater maturation of the immune response, especially B and T cells, which seem important in preventing against severe disease. JMO.

 

[cujenn81]

A thought experiment:

If the billions of people throughout the ages who have died from pandemics could rise from their graves and live now, what would their attitudes be towards getting vaccinated?

IMO those of us alive in the 20th and 21st centuries are the beneficiaries of the doctors and scientists who came before us, and enabled us to live longer than anyone could have expected in times past.

I think of the incremental discoveries made by the brilliant people who came before us, leading us to live in a time and place when we know so much more about disease and how to prevent or cure at least many of them.

When Jenner figured out that the cow maids were not developing smallpox because they’d had the less deadly cowpox, and he invented a vaccine (from the word for cow) from their pustules that protected the recipients from smallpox. When Lister determined that sterilization of surgical instruments, as well as getting doctors to wash their hands, would end the massive death rate that surgery caused due to bacterial infection. When John Snow observed that Londoners who lived near the Broad Street pump were dying of cholera at greater rates than others, and realized the water was actually killing them, he had the authorities break the pump handle and went on to prove that there were these things called “germs” that no one could see. When Alexander Fleming accidentally left the lid off a Petri dish and realized the mold spores had killed bacteria, which led to penicillin and all antibiotics. Whomever it was that discovered that malaria and yellow fever were actually being caused by parasites in mosquitos and that quinine could restore health to those who would die otherwise.

If the untold billions who’ve perished due to disease, most never having heard of germs and viruses, with no knowledge of a microscopic world——if they were here right now and knew what we know, would they reject a vaccine that could protect them?

IMO if they were here now and knew what we know, they would fall to their knees in gratitude and then race to protect themselves and their families.

I believe we have a miracle in our grasp.

We are not living in the times of ignorance. During the Black Plague people thought they could catch the buboes just by looking at someone, because they could see that people in contact with others would catch bubonic plague, but they didn’t know how. They didn’t know about hygiene and if they had, they didn’t have easily available soap and water, as we do. They couldn’t have conceived of an “antibiotic” or a “vaccine.”

Of course in many underdeveloped countries, clean water is still a problem. But we who live here and now, how can we be educated and yet so ignorant?

IMO

ETA: Louis Pasteur—-sorry, buddy, didn’t mean to leave you out! And all the others whose names are not coming to mind at the moment, but whose advances have rescued us in so many ways.

I just watched that new Leonardo DiCaprio movie, Don’t Look Up. It’s essentially a satirical piece about a comet that’s headed directly for earth. Half the world refuses to believe the astronomers and denies its existence (even though the comet can clearly be seen in the sky), while the other half desperately tries to convince the deniers to open their eyes and take action.

It’s funny (while not being funny at all) and crazy and sad sad sad how accurately it depicts the current environment.

 

[Arkay]

and hope that they will mask while less contagious.

SBM

IMO this will be looked back on as another grave misstep. So many, many people where I live are not wearing masks even where it’s mandated. In NYC this is now just about everywhere indoors.

Telling infected people to quarantine for five days instead of ten, and then expecting them to wear masks for five days while venturing out after that, is just not going to happen.

Just like earlier this year when the CDC told us vaccinated people that we could go out maskless, and then all the unvaccinated felt free to go out maskless as well. No one was going to check them.

I regret to say it, but IMO I think we’ve learned by now that we cannot depend upon the “kindness of strangers” to obey laws that are meant to protect us all.

I agree that this change is due, not to evolving ideas on infectious time periods but to overwhelming staff shortages in many critical areas.

jmo

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm wondering if the extended spacing between the 1st and 2nd vaccine doses in the UK has allowed for a greater maturation of the immune response, especially B and T cells, which seem important in preventing against severe disease. JMO.

Did the UK booster with an mRNA vaccine?

Because I have also been wondering if the mixing of the vaccines is teaching our bodies to fight the virus in a couple of different ways. (In addition to what you are saying, not instead of what you are saying, because I think maturation of response is very likely a good factor.)

In other words ...
"hey, fight the simulated virus in this vaccine" (AZ)
"now, fight the simulated virus in this vaccine" (Pfizer/Moderna)

And the body says "hey, you changed the format, okay I will try to quickly learn to adapt to changes in the simulated virus penetration".

 

[CrimeAway]

I believe the UK is primarily using Pfizer mRNA for booster doses.

 

[CharlestonGal]

Did the UK booster with an mRNA vaccine?

Because I have also been wondering if the mixing of the vaccines is teaching our bodies to fight the virus in a couple of different ways. (In addition to what you are saying, not instead of what you are saying, because I think maturation of response is very likely a good factor.)

In other words ...
"hey, fight the simulated virus in this vaccine" (AZ)
"now, fight the simulated virus in this vaccine" (Pfizer/Moderna)

And the body says "hey, you changed the format, okay I will try to quickly learn to adapt to changes in the simulated virus penetration".

The combinations are interesting. I have some protection from the Moderna vaccine. I have some protection from the mab's, for the next few weeks anyway. I have some protection from actual infection with Omicron. It makes me wonder what kind of protection I will have from the next variant. The variables are becoming too numerous to count. Research is going to have a tough time teasing this all out. jmo

 

[Lilibet]

Look at those faces. They were taught to do something for the greater good. Too bad that lesson appears to be in short supply in 2019-

I remember it well! Six years old. Even at that young age polio was a really scary thing.

 

[mickey2942]

I have a hard time with the N-95 mask for 8 hours a day. I guess that it stops the virus, I feel like I can barely breathe with it on.

I bought a bunch of masks, hand sanitizer, sanitizer wipes, gloves in May. I guess that there was a huge glut of them, and everyone thought it was over. Well, it ain't over.

 

[jakat]

I don't know how to properly explain this, but I hope you can get the gist. It is something that we have learned through reading lots of scientific papers (links have been posted previously).

The antibodies from the vaccines do wane. But the antibodies are teaching our bodies how to fight the virus. The hope being that once the antibodies wane, our bodies have learned how to fight the virus and spring into action.

The vaccines were made to fight the Alpha strain. They seemed to hold up okay against the Delta strain, but boosters were recommended to help our bodies fight. Now we are dealing with Omicron.

We are unable to determine our bodies' learned ability to fight the virus (until we catch the virus) but we can see when the vaccine antibodies wane. By the time they wane, our bodies should have learned how to fight.

Boosters will keep our bodies learning how to fight, while adjusting to new variants.

imo


(This is why we give babies MMR shots and boosters ... so their bodies can learn to fight measles, mumps and rubella, before their little bodies ever have to face those diseases.)

I understand what you're saying, but it doesn't explain why my son's brother-in-law who is vaccinated, now has covid. The only difference between him and the 7 other family members is that he never got the booster shot. A few days will tell if the rest of the family is infected. I spoke to my son again today and he thinks he has covid. When he gets his test, he'll know for sure.

Thank you for the information SouthAussie. Much appreciated.

 

[anneg]

I have a hard time with the N-95 mask for 8 hours a day. I guess that it stops the virus, I feel like I can barely breathe with it on.

I bought a bunch of masks, hand sanitizer, sanitizer wipes, gloves in May. I guess that there was a huge glut of them, and everyone thought it was over. Well, it ain't over.

I have both N95 and KN95 masks. The KN95's are easier for me to breathe in, but I never have to wear them for 8 hours (thank goodness). I find myself mouth-breathing in the masks at times.

 

[anneg]

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1475661422688354304

Video worth watching.

 

[MimosaMornings]

I have a hard time with the N-95 mask for 8 hours a day. I guess that it stops the virus, I feel like I can barely breathe with it on.

I bought a bunch of masks, hand sanitizer, sanitizer wipes, gloves in May. I guess that there was a huge glut of them, and everyone thought it was over. Well, it ain't over.

I have trouble with the N95 for 8 hours or more. I switch it up with KN95’s.

 

[Lilibet]

I understand what you're saying, but it doesn't explain why my son's brother-in-law who is vaccinated, now has covid. The only difference between him and the 7 other family members is that he never got the booster shot. A few days will tell if the rest of the family is infected. I spoke to my son again today and he thinks he has covid. When he gets his test, he'll know for sure.

Thank you for the information SouthAussie. Much appreciated.

BBM

Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but the vaccine does not prevent someone from getting covid. It is designed to prevent serious illness, provided our bodies are still able to fight. The booster helps it fight. But even though I’m boosted (late November) I’m still taking precautions, especially now with omicron taking over. Apologies if I didn’t understand the bolded part of your post correctly, but I see so many people on local FB news article comments under the mistaken impression that the vaccine prevents you from getting covid that I wanted to clarify.

 

[pocketaccent]

CDC Newsroom
( 5 days isolated plus 5 days wearing a mask. Yah. Sure. To minimize the risk to others. As if that’s a thing)

“Therefore, people who test positive should isolate for 5 days and, if asymptomatic at that time, they may leave isolation if they can continue to mask for 5 days to minimize the risk of infecting others.”



“We want to make sure there is a mechanism by which we can safely continue to keep society functioning while following the science.”

I do not agree with the CDC. (Once again)
IMO everyone should wear a mask anytime they are out of their home whether they are vaccinated, unvaccinated, have tested positive, negative, feel great, feel sick and miserable, or anything in between.

Just wear a mask and stop the spread of this awful virus. It's that simple. No counting and waiting this many days until you can go mask less once again. We all should know this by now - How you can end the pandemic as soon as possible.

 

[musicaljoke]

SBM

IMO this will be looked back on as another grave misstep. So many, many people where I live are not wearing masks even where it’s mandated. In NYC this is now just about everywhere indoors.

Telling infected people to quarantine for five days instead of ten, and then expecting them to wear masks for five days while venturing out after that, is just not going to happen.

Just like earlier this year when the CDC told us vaccinated people that we could go out maskless, and then all the unvaccinated felt free to go out maskless as well. No one was going to check them.

I regret to say it, but IMO I think we’ve learned by now that we cannot depend upon the “kindness of strangers” to obey laws that are meant to protect us all.

I agree that this change is due, not to evolving ideas on infectious time periods but to overwhelming staff shortages in many critical areas.

jmo

I'm sure that health care workers and pandemic response teams around the world felt their hearts sink when they read the new CDC guidelines. It will create confusion in countries where the CDC has influence but no authority and where the new CDC guidelines contradict those of other nations.

 

[jakat]

BBM

Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but the vaccine does not prevent someone from getting covid. It is designed to prevent serious illness, provided our bodies are still able to fight. The booster helps it fight. But even though I’m boosted (late November) I’m still taking precautions, especially now with omicron taking over. Apologies if I didn’t understand the bolded part of your post correctly, but I see so many people on local FB news article comments under the mistaken impression that the vaccine prevents you from getting covid that I wanted to clarify.

Thank you!

They're only 95% effective or less I think. Is that right? It's just that it hit so close to home for people who did everything to prevent it and there it is showing it's ugly face again.

A family member died in September from the Delta variant. He was only 58 years old. It's unnerving to watch family and friends go through this horrible disease. It's very hard for me to hear of more. I don't feel safe out there in the world, but there isn't much more I can do to protect myself from it.

 

[Teche]

Indeed. It's pretty much impossible for a mom in labour to wear a mask, so staff need to wear full PPE. We also had a local, unvaccinated mom die soon after delivering her baby. It was so very sad.

The risk to the nurses/drs. in delivery is not from the mother being maskless, it’s the vaginal delivery. A c-section poses less risk.

 

[SouthAussie]

<RSBM>I don't feel safe out there in the world, but there isn't much more I can do to protect myself from it.

IIRC the reason I responded to your initial post is because it expressed apprehension about getting a booster shot (sorry, I can't find the post that I initially responded to).

IMO keeping up with the booster shots is the 'more' we can do to protect ourselves. Enable our bodies to keep on learning how to enhance our immune systems to fight this virus.

The point of the vaccines and the boosters is to keep us alive, and not seriously ill, as the virus whips through our populations.

imo

 

[BeckyF]

My granddaughter just posted on FB that her 4 month old tested positive for covid. Of course they were all around close relatives over the holiday weekend., not around me as they live in another state. And she is an anti vaxxer. All she put in her post was she is asking for well wishes for her baby. Baby is doing okay. Yay for me that I did not say anything. It would do no good. She should not have that baby around unvaccinated people. The ignorance of some people.

 

[mickey2942]

My granddaughter just posted on FB that her 4 month old tested positive for covid. Of course they were all around close relatives over the holiday weekend., not around me as they live in another state. And she is an anti vaxxer. All she put in her post was she is asking for well wishes for her baby. Baby is doing okay. Yay for me that I did not say anything. It would do no good. She should not have that baby around unvaccinated people. The ignorance of some people.

Sorry to hear this. If there is any consolation, babies seem to do okay.