Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #54

[CSIDreamer]

Mask questions here.

Okay, so it seems clear that cloth masks are not that effective. N95 for medical use are unavailable. N95 for general use are available many places (but banned in some places because particles can escape them, so some places banned them on public transport).

However, most of what I'm reading does not give cloth masks a good protection score - at all. N95's don't block everything incoming, but between 40-60%. Cloth masks, depending on the cloth, block 3-20% of aerosolized particles. The study I read was done regarding nurses and their masks, in places where nurses had to make their own cloth masks.

A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers

Those of you who learned to pleat and double/triple fabric were on the right path. Now, it looks like some kind of neoprene-like fabric is being used.

Here's the thing - I intend to social distance. I do not want people closer than 6 feet and I'm only going to be outdoors when there's a breeze. So...a plain cloth mask (I have one, have to toss it) only blocks 3% of aerosolizd particles. Pillow case fabric, doubled, may block 40% (but again - I don't intend to be near anyone in the first place).

So - what are your mask ideas? I'm more concerned about incoming virion than outgoing, as I know I do not currently have CoVid, but I would like to do something other than pace around the perimeter of my own yard one day.



They sure have. Here in California, protein has gone up in cost, no matter what type it is. I look for it to get worse before it gets better, as California is facing a difficult decision about whether to keep its borders open to cheaper eggs, meat and produce from elsewhere - if there's a risk to it. The news about the two main strains of CoVid is very sobering. Will we give up and just eventually let it come to our state?

Stay tuned. Gov Newsom - if you're reading, what are you going to do there?

I would try to get a homemade one with a filter pocket. I'm leery of the blue shop disposable towel because I think it would draw moisture from your breath. I tend to gasp for air while moving freight, though. It might be different if you can breathe through your nose. Jmo

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Here's something I've been wondering. If the virus in the air gradually falls down to the floor rather than floating up, are we less at risk of exposure the taller we are? I seriously considered wearing my boots with 4 inch heels to the grocery today but eventually pulled on my old cowboy boots. I would think the higher our eyes, nose and mouth are, the better our chances of being safe.

If so, I'm SOL. The only person I'm taller than is my sister.

 

[cody22]

Wisconsin strip clubs suing for coronavirus relief win preliminary injunction

Wisconsin Virus News......Does this mean that they are clothed until furthur notice ?.....moo

 

[pocketaccent]

snipped

I'm just not sure Americans will cooperate with tracing in large enough numbers to make it work.

jmo

I don't think so either. So that's a big problem.

In order to win the battle against the highly contagious virus, we must:
1. Wear masks if alive
2. Social distance
3. Wash hands, don't touch face.
4. Test, Contact Trace, Treat, Isolate

Americans get failing grade on #1,2, and 4. Hopefully people are washing hands oftern (This alone is not enough to win the virus). JMO

 

[Reasonable & Just]

Health and the economy are both important things to be focused on. People need to be able to feed their families. We can’t wait for the virus to be eradicated because that won’t happen anytime soon.

As far as I’m concerned close it indefinitely as long as the government doesn’t keep handing out stimulus checks. That’s the meaning of planning for a rainy day. Unfortunately people don’t do it.

IMO

Not everyone gets paid fair wages, or has access to affordable health care and housing, so I understand the lack of savings for some, though I have seen some fancy cars among those screaming about shutdowns, which made me wonder. However, adequate testing (including results) as promised and access to PPE for all would be a much better use of our tax dollars than another stimulus payment. That, plus small business assistance that actually helps small businesses. JMO.

 

[10ofRods]

Oh crap.....NM virus hits home, although I live way down in the southwest corner where we have been isolating nicely.....maybe too nicely.

Still, NM has one of the lowest rates in the US - and maybe even in the world! 7-8 out of every 100,000. Less than one person out of a million.

Compared to poor Belgium, with 630 or more per 100,000.

I'm in a similar situation (CDC says my county has plateaued and we've had only 19 deaths in 1 million - that's really good compared to most of California).

You hang in there. Eat your chile and take lots of Vitamin D (at least 5000 IU - I take 10,000 IU after reading a convincing study about flu resistance about 3 years ago).

Most of all, enjoy that clean NM air and sunshine.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Mask questions here.

Okay, so it seems clear that cloth masks are not that effective. N95 for medical use are unavailable. N95 for general use are available many places (but banned in some places because particles can escape them, so some places banned them on public transport).

However, most of what I'm reading does not give cloth masks a good protection score - at all. N95's don't block everything incoming, but between 40-60%. Cloth masks, depending on the cloth, block 3-20% of aerosolized particles. The study I read was done regarding nurses and their masks, in places where nurses had to make their own cloth masks.

A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers

Those of you who learned to pleat and double/triple fabric were on the right path. Now, it looks like some kind of neoprene-like fabric is being used.

Here's the thing - I intend to social distance. I do not want people closer than 6 feet and I'm only going to be outdoors when there's a breeze. So...a plain cloth mask (I have one, have to toss it) only blocks 3% of aerosolizd particles. Pillow case fabric, doubled, may block 40% (but again - I don't intend to be near anyone in the first place).

So - what are your mask ideas? I'm more concerned about incoming virion than outgoing, as I know I do not currently have CoVid, but I would like to do something other than pace around the perimeter of my own yard one day.



They sure have. Here in California, protein has gone up in cost, no matter what type it is. I look for it to get worse before it gets better, as California is facing a difficult decision about whether to keep its borders open to cheaper eggs, meat and produce from elsewhere - if there's a risk to it. The news about the two main strains of CoVid is very sobering. Will we give up and just eventually let it come to our state?

Stay tuned. Gov Newsom - if you're reading, what are you going to do there?

You can make a mask of these, although I use them as filters in my double layer cotton mask.

Using blue shop towels in homemade face masks can filter particles 2x to 3x better than cotton, 3 clothing designers discover after testing dozens of fabrics

 

[10ofRods]

It might not matter if the virus lives on clothing or not....it matters if the consumers are worried about it.

Retailers need to make changes to assure and convince consumers it's safe to shop.

I really, really don't want to pull clothes over my head that someone else has just tried on or returned after purchase.

jmo

.

No kidding. Oddly, my elderly mother took to shopping at this one "consignment" (second hand store) where the owner tossed things in the laundry and the drier after every try-on. I guess the owner was a germophobe like my mom - but my mom didn't ever get the flu and managed to die of something completely non-infectious, as she really truly tried to avoid anything infectious. Her own mother had survive the Spanish flu, but polio and small pox were still hanging out - and all the forms of measles, plus chicken pox, mumps, etc.

I guess more and more people will buy on line. Retail was moribund, I think this is the nail in its coffin. So all those people hoping for their retail/restaurant jobs back are going to be in a hard place, a year from now.

What then?

 

[firebird]

I don't think so either. So that's a big problem.

In order to win the battle against the highly contagious virus, we must:
1. Wear masks if alive
2. Social distance
3. Wash hands, don't touch face.
4. Test, Contact Trace, Treat, Isolate

Americans get failing grade on #1,2, and 4. Hopefully people are washing hands oftern (This alone is not enough to win the virus). JMO

I agree that there's no way most Americans will comply with most of this. Especially in the majority of states that have barely had any deaths, like mine. Masks have never been mandated here. I've been working every day since the "lockdown" and none of the people who continue to work in my office or in my building are wearing masks, and none of them are social distancing that I can tell. Depending on when you go, the grocery store runs anywhere from 50-90% no masks, and I rarely see anyone wearing gloves. We're going to start opening back up on Friday, and I predict that masks and "social distancing" are going right out the window for about 80% immediately, and another 10% in another two weeks.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

@10ofRods - I also recently posted in the mask thread the things I would look for when buying a professionally made mask. If you ask in there, I’ll show a pic of what I mean by including a chin piece. It makes a difference in keeping it in place even while talking.

 

[10ofRods]

What about the reports of all of those bodies piled up outside & on PU trucks at funeral homes?

That's not everywhere. New York, New Jersey - and was it also Massachusetts (seems doubtful, but I can't remember). It's also in Ecuador (but families have buried their own dead there for centuries before urbanization - so it's only the capital that has had that, AFAIK). Even Washington (state) didn't see that.

So...unless we get a second wave that is 1) as tough on people as the strain in NY/NJ and 2) as prevalent in a highly urban environment, we won't see stacks of bodies.

For one thing, the way we're going, if you're 90, you're either going to die this year of CoVid or make it through and live to be 110. Most of us will die earlier than we expected - but what does that matter to people in minimum wage jobs who are trying to get by, raise their kids and either save for a house or buy stuff for the house they're in.

I think the best case scenario is one in which we bump along with low rates of CoVid. Eradicating it, as varied as it is, is almost impossible. The vaccine, when it comes, will not provide 100% protection and the most recent poll says 30% of Americans will refuse to take it anyway. (I think that was the NYT, but can't remember).

BTW, there's pretty good evidence that CoVid goes easier on people who've had other vaccines (like flu vaccines). Or have had a CoVid family virus (common cold type) in the past. Kids in the public schools seem to have a certain degree of immunity/asymptomatic presentation. I posted the article a couple of threads back.

 

[Bailey38]

`
I see what you're saying - that type of shopping is here in the States already. My DH buys is dress clothes that way.

I've never seen women's departments with that type of shopping.

I'm still hoping for the 1920s look to make a comeback - simple, easy to fit, fun.


jmo

When the colleges were open and I'd be sitting at a red light, I really noticed that there wasn't a true trend in clothing/fashion. Everyone was dressed so differently.

ETA: With every earth changing event, many new trends start.

 

[10ofRods]

Right. So get ready for Wave 2.
jmo

Yep, but without any Stay at Home. It's gonna be "bite the bullet" and get through. Each of us will learn more about our genes (long before scientists do). Good luck to all of us, and may we all develop healthy habits. We can social distance on our own, wear face shields, get face shields and masks, etc

What a world.

I think I'll retire and just stay home. And given that students are probably going to stay home in droves, too (and tourists, and restaurant goers, and clothes buyers, etc), the hoped-for "opening up" and "return to normal" can't happen in a scenario where so many people refuse to participate in contact tracing, quarantining, etc

 

[KALI]

Not political.
Speaking only for the USA, we do have to get our economy open again, and as soon as possible.
All of the Government Freebies and bailouts, are NOT free. Money does NOT grow on trees.
Every dollar printed off of the Treasury printing press has a price.
That price is dollar devaluation.
Paying unemployment to millions of out of work Americans is not free.
We and our children and their children will be paying for this for decades.
Americans need to utilize the precautions that we have been taught, to lower our infections and death rates.
But, we cannot all stay home and collect unemployment. Our entire economy would collapse.
Already, the ramifications from this virus on all of our businesses is huge.
Unfathomable actually.
We are in a war for our country and way of life.
People will die, and people will be wounded.
Still, we must go back to work. Taking care of the vulnerable and using all protection strategies.
Moo

I don't have a good feeling about this new direction to COVID management. From the article:

During a visit to the plant in Phoenix after weeks holed up at the White House, Mr Trump told journalists: "Mike Pence and the task force have done a great job, but we're now looking at a little bit of a different form, and that form is safety and opening. And we'll have a different group probably set up for that."
The president - who wore safety goggles but no face mask during a tour of the facility - was asked if it was "mission accomplished", and he said: "No, not at all. The mission accomplished is when it's over."
He told reporters: "I'm not saying anything is perfect, and yes, will some people be affected? Yes.
"Will some people be affected badly? Yes. But we have to get our country open and we have to get it open soon."

White House plans to disband virus task force

 

[KALI]

Not political.
Speaking only for the USA, we do have to get our economy open again, and as soon as possible.
All of the Government Freebies and bailouts, are NOT free. Money does NOT grow on trees.
Every dollar printed off of the Treasury printing press has a price.
That price is dollar devaluation.
Paying unemployment to millions of out of work Americans is not free.
We and our children and their children will be paying for this for decades.
Americans need to utilize the precautions that we have been taught, to lower our infections and death rates.
But, we cannot all stay home and collect unemployment. Our entire economy would collapse.
Already, the ramifications from this virus on all of our businesses is huge.
Unfathomable actually.
We are in a war for our country and way of life.
People will die, and people will be wounded.
Still, we must go back to work. Taking care of the vulnerable and using all protection strategies.
Spoken from the Granddaughter of a Great Depression survivor.

I don't have a good feeling about this new direction to COVID management. From the article:

During a visit to the plant in Phoenix after weeks holed up at the White House, Mr Trump told journalists: "Mike Pence and the task force have done a great job, but we're now looking at a little bit of a different form, and that form is safety and opening. And we'll have a different group probably set up for that."
The president - who wore safety goggles but no face mask during a tour of the facility - was asked if it was "mission accomplished", and he said: "No, not at all. The mission accomplished is when it's over."
He told reporters: "I'm not saying anything is perfect, and yes, will some people be affected? Yes.
"Will some people be affected badly? Yes. But we have to get our country open and we have to get it open soon."

White House plans to disband virus task force

 

[otto]

That's not everywhere. New York, New Jersey - and was it also Massachusetts (seems doubtful, but I can't remember). It's also in Ecuador (but families have buried their own dead there for centuries before urbanization - so it's only the capital that has had that, AFAIK). Even Washington (state) didn't see that.

So...unless we get a second wave that is 1) as tough on people as the strain in NY/NJ and 2) as prevalent in a highly urban environment, we won't see stacks of bodies.

For one thing, the way we're going, if you're 90, you're either going to die this year of CoVid or make it through and live to be 110. Most of us will die earlier than we expected - but what does that matter to people in minimum wage jobs who are trying to get by, raise their kids and either save for a house or buy stuff for the house they're in.

I think the best case scenario is one in which we bump along with low rates of CoVid. Eradicating it, as varied as it is, is almost impossible. The vaccine, when it comes, will not provide 100% protection and the most recent poll says 30% of Americans will refuse to take it anyway. (I think that was the NYT, but can't remember).

BTW, there's pretty good evidence that CoVid goes easier on people who've had other vaccines (like flu vaccines). Or have had a CoVid family virus (common cold type) in the past. Kids in the public schools seem to have a certain degree of immunity/asymptomatic presentation. I posted the article a couple of threads back.

Not every place puts bodies directly from death bed into refrigeration trucks, but many countries have done this since the pandemic, including Wuhan, New York, Italy, Spain and more. People have been prevented from last rights with family.

Contaminated corpses, or fear of that, is what leads to piles of corpses transported for cremation. Remember reports that the crematoriums were going 24/7 in Wuhan with heat maps showing location - the rest of the city in lockdown.

 

[Sundog]

But so far there does not appear to have been anyone who has died by being infected by a corpse. With Ebola that was a real big problem but not with CV19 AFAIK.

The CDC's website has guidelines on transporting a corpse where COVID 19 was cause of death.

 

[10ofRods]

`
I see what you're saying - that type of shopping is here in the States already. My DH buys is dress clothes that way.

I've never seen women's departments with that type of shopping.

I'm still hoping for the 1920s look to make a comeback - simple, easy to fit, fun.


jmo

Simple shift dresses (in all sizes with varying between column and A-shaped) suit nearly everyone. Throw something over it, if in a professional context. When it's hot, just wear a scarf over it, when it's cold, throw on a sweater. Done.

My students wear jeans, knit pants, dark T-shirts and the occasional baseball cap. It's a rare day when anyone is wearing anything but black or gray. Red t-shirts are the next most common. When I ask where they get their clothes, they usually say, "On sale at the store where I work," "or it's a gift from ______ - names relative" or "my mom bought it."

 

[SoCalDavidS]

Not political.
Speaking only for the USA, we do have to get our economy open again, and as soon as possible.
All of the Government Freebies and bailouts, are NOT free. Money does NOT grow on trees.
Every dollar printed off of the Treasury printing press has a price.
That price is dollar devaluation.
Paying unemployment to millions of out of work Americans is not free.
We and our children and their children will be paying for this for decades.
Americans need to utilize the precautions that we have been taught, to lower our infections and death rates.
But, we cannot all stay home and collect unemployment. Our entire economy would collapse.
Already, the ramifications from this virus on all of our businesses is huge.
Unfathomable actually.
We are in a war for our country and way of life.
People will die, and people will be wounded.
Still, we must go back to work. Taking care of the vulnerable and using all protection strategies.
Spoken from the Granddaughter of a Great Depression survivor.

Entertainment is a HUGE part of this nation's economy, and there are going to be extremely limited entertainment options available for many months, and possibly the rest of 2020. No Live Concerts, No Filled Stadiums For Sports, Severely Restricted(If Available) Amusement Parks, No Packed Theatres For Broadway Shows. And the biggest killer of all, No Traveling, which will impact Airlines, Hotels, Car Rentals, Tourist Attractions, Etc.

There is little chance the economy as a whole, recovers this year. People might recover enough to survive, but the U.S. economy as a whole will be in the toilet. If the virus explodes again, it could get even worse as hopelessness takes hold.

 

[otto]

Entertainment is a HUGE part of this nation's economy, and there are going to be extremely limited entertainment options available for many months, and possibly the rest of 2020. No Live Concerts, No Filled Stadiums For Sports, Severely Restricted(If Available) Amusement Parks, No Packed Theatres For Broadway Shows. And the biggest killer of all, No Traveling, which will impact Airlines, Hotels, Car Rentals, Tourist Attractions, Etc.

There is little chance the economy as a whole, recovers this year. People might recover enough to survive, but the U.S. economy as a whole will be in the toilet. If the virus explodes again, it could get even worse as hopelessness takes hold.

What will happen to Netflix? Actors aren't willing to risk life to shoot on site. Revival of historic film might be interesting.