Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #56

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  • #1,021
Yes all good here ze. My city has done really well. So far. 120 cases, 34 active cases presently and 2 deaths sadly. 1st death was way back in March and travel related. 2nd death today was a female on a vent for last several weeks. I don't know her age etc. Most of our cases have been from a Greenhouse outbreak recently.
 
  • #1,022
I'm not keeping track of individual cases. The kid with the heart issue and the CPR did not die (yet). AFAIK, he got out of the hospital after an extended stay. I don't recall nor is there any medical literature on his underlying conditions.

In Italy, France and China, there are published studies on child mortality, which is what sticks in my mind.



I addressed this point in my earlier post. It would be impossible to test every child for every underlying condition. While diabetes is an underlying condition in something like 25% of adult deaths, and we can assume that Type I Juvenile Diabetics are at higher risk of a more serious case, there are 1000's of possible "underlying conditions," some of them quite rare and requiring a geneticist to diagnose.

We don't have the resources for that, in the US or planet-wide, IMO.

They don't have to test every child, just every child who gets sick with this mystery condition. Also, this recent 14 year old in the UK, I am trying to find more info on. As the UK child is not named that's difficult. Juvenile diabetes should not be too difficult to diagnose. I'll post what I find.

Here's the link to the Lancet report.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31094-1/fulltext

Part of the report

South Thames Retrieval Service in London, UK, provides paediatric intensive care support and retrieval to 2 million children in South East England. During a period of 10 days in mid-April, 2020, we noted an unprecedented cluster of eight children with hyperinflammatory shock, showing features similar to atypical Kawasaki disease, Kawasaki disease shock syndrome,
1
or toxic shock syndrome (typical number is one or two children per week). This case cluster formed the basis of a national alert.
All children were previously fit and well. Six of the children were of Afro-Caribbean descent, and five of the children were boys. All children except one were well above the 75th centile for weight. Four children had known family exposure to coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). Demographics, clinical findings, imaging findings, treatment, and outcome for this cluster of eight children are shown in the table.

Clinical presentations were similar, with unrelenting fever (38–40°C), variable rash, conjunctivitis, peripheral oedema, and generalised extremity pain with significant gastrointestinal symptoms. All progressed to warm, vasoplegic shock, refractory to volume resuscitation and eventually requiring noradrenaline and milrinone for haemodynamic support. Most of the children had no significant respiratory involvement, although seven of the children required mechanical ventilation for cardiovascular stabilisation. Other notable features (besides persistent fever and rash) included development of small pleural, pericardial, and ascitic effusions, suggestive of a diffuse inflammatory process.
All children tested negative for severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) on broncho-alveolar lavage or nasopharyngeal aspirates. Despite being critically unwell, with laboratory evidence of infection or inflammation
3
including elevated concentrations of C-reactive protein, procalcitonin, ferritin, triglycerides, and D-dimers, no pathological organism was identified in seven of the children. Adenovirus and enterovirus were isolated in one child.
Baseline electrocardiograms were non-specific; however, a common echocardiographic finding was echo-bright coronary vessels (appendix), which progressed to giant coronary aneurysm in one patient within a week of discharge from paediatric intensive care (appendix). One child developed arrhythmia with refractory shock, requiring extracorporeal life support, and died from a large cerebrovascular infarct. The myocardial involvement
2
in this syndrome is evidenced by very elevated cardiac enzymes during the course of illness.
All children were given intravenous immunoglobulin (2 g/kg) in the first 24 h, and antibiotic cover including ceftriaxone and clindamycin. Subsequently, six children have been given 50 mg/kg aspirin. All of the children were discharged from PICU after 4–6 days. Since discharge, two of the children have tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 (including the child who died, in whom SARS-CoV-2 was detected post mortem). All children are receiving ongoing surveillance for coronary abnormalities.
We suggest that this clinical picture represents a new phenomenon affecting previously asymptomatic children with SARS-CoV-2 infection manifesting as a hyperinflammatory syndrome with multiorgan involvement similar to Kawasaki disease shock syndrome. The multifaceted nature of the disease course underlines the need for multispecialty input (intensive care, cardiology, infectious diseases, immunology, and rheumatology).
The intention of this Correspondence is to bring this subset of children to the attention of the wider paediatric community and to optimise early recognition and management. As this Correspondence goes to press, 1 week after the initial submission, the Evelina London Children's Hospital paediatric intensive care unit has managed more than 20 children with similar clinical presentation, the first ten of whom tested positive for antibody (including the original eight children in the cohort described above).
We declare no competing interests.

TableDemographics, clinical findings, imaging findings, treatment, and outcome from PICU
Age; weight; BMI; comorbidities Clinical presentation Organ support Pharmacological treatment Imaging results Laboratory results Microbiology results PICU length of stay; outcome
Initial
PICU referral
Patient 1 (male, AfroCaribbean) 14 years; 95 kg; BMI 33 kg/m2; no comorbidities 4 days >40°C; 3 days non-bloody diarrhoea; abdominal pain; headache BP 80/40 mmHg; HR 120 beats/min; RR 40 breaths per min; work of breathing; SatO2 99% NCO2 MV, RRT, VA-ECMO Dopamine, noradrenaline, argipressin, adrenaline milrinone, hydroxicortisone, IVIG, ceftriaxone, clindamycin RV dysfunction/elevate RVSP; ileitis, GB oedema and dilated biliary tree, ascites, bilateral basal lung consolidations and diffuse nodules Ferritin 4220 μg/L; D-dimers 13·4 mg/L; troponin 675 ng/L; proBNP >35 000; CRP 556 mg/L; procalcitonin>100 μg/L; albumin 20 g/L; platelets 123 × 109 SARS-CoV-2 positive (post mortem) 6 days; demise (right MCA and ACA ischaemic infarction)

(see link for details of other patients who lived)
 
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  • #1,023
I have no idea why some people trying so hard to minimize this horrible disease. Vast majority of people with pre-existing conditions weren't going to die from these conditions any time soon, until they got infected with covid.
"The study, which is awaiting peer review, estimated that the average years of life lost for a sample of coronavirus patients in Italy when controlling for a set of common underlying conditions was 13 years for men and 11 years for women."
A new analysis of COVID-19 deaths estimates the patients might otherwise have lived much longer — regardless of underlying condition
 
  • #1,024
I'd like to know this too as this is how DH was first diagnosed, even before test results proved positive (2 days later). Those were the exact words from the ER docs - glass-like particles in his lungs. He was prescribed azithromycin. He's recovered completely now, but since you mentioned lifelong health consequences, perhaps he should be able to get another lung scan.

I haven't been on the main thread for a while, but your post caught my attention for personal reasons. Will def follow up with your link. Thanks.

He just needs to make all his doctors aware of that result. He may be more susceptible to lung issues as he ages and when he inevitably gets another respiratory infection. For most, it's just one more thing on the list to think about it. If he is athletic and notices that his breathing seems different, he should get a CT scan IMO. Or something similar, just so he can visualize what's going on and there's more data.

It's not just CoVid that causes these, but usually the cause is known (like blood clots on the lungs).

Maybe he can get a copy of his x-ray? The point being that his future health would be benefited by having readily available tomography for comparative purposes. That's the "lifelong consequence," he needs to be aware and be the steward of his own medical records.

BTW, seems men are more likely to get these. In some cases, they are transient. So if it were me, I'd wait a year, get MRI or CT, keep a copy of those pictures, and if you can get a copy of the current x-ray, the radiologist can assess whether they are going away - or maybe they'll be gone. No one knows yet, but he certainly needs to tell each future doctor about it, if only to keep them from thinking they are new.
 
  • #1,025
They don't have to test every child, just every child who gets sick with this mystery condition. Also, this recent 14 year old in the UK, I am trying to find more info on. As the UK child is not named that's difficult. Juvenile diabetes should not be too difficult to diagnose. I'll post what I find.

The part you're not getting is that children rarely show symptoms. So how could we ever test them in advance? If we wait until a child is symptomatic, it's too late.

Of course juvenile diabetes is diagnosed. That's my point. If a parent knows their child has this, then they know there's that one pre-existing condition (out of a possible 1000 conditions). Everyone else, with an apparently healthy child, will simply have to wonder if their child has one of the rare genes for thrombosis or for Kawasaki's.

We'd like to test every human, right? But a negative test today is not a predictor of next year's situation.

We are already testing children who have CoVid symptoms. In nearly every nation.

But most children do not have symptoms. Or the symptoms appear to be a mild cold.
 
  • #1,026
No. That's not the answer. This is:

"If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined.

There's a video of the Illinois Dept of Health Director, Dr. Ezike, saying the quote at the link.

IDPH Director explains how Covid deaths are classified
I am presuming there are also bunch of people passing away from covid who haven't been tested. Again, US has a large increase in deaths compared to previous years. This increase is actually larger than a number of deaths specifically attributed to covid. So most likely we have more people dead from covid than the official number says, not less.
 
  • #1,027
Yep. I know that the kids I taught, it would have been absolutely impossible to get to wear a mask. Forget about Social Distancing.

In regards to the district not doing Facetime or whatever, it is because of the level of privacy laws. They can't provide a secure connection, so they can't do it.

I don't know where special education services will go from here. We may very well go back to pre 94-142 days. If for no other reason, the money just isn't going to be there for the level of services parents have come to expect as almost entitlement benefits.

Sure, they wanted a Cadillac before, and often got a Volkswagen. Well, now, I think that they are going to be lucky to get a skateboard. If that.

I think that a lot of middle management in school districts may have to change jobs. Or retire.

I totally agree with you. We are in fact, going to go back to 1950 levels of services, in some places that will happen sooner rather than later. I agree about the middle management - I think that's going to start happening soon. If everyone retires, then the states have to pay retirement and get nothing back from those employees - but that's what the older crowd might do, if they think they may be about to be laid off anyway.
 
  • #1,028
  • #1,029
I am presuming there are also bunch of people passing away from covid who haven't been tested. Again, US has a large increase in deaths compared to previous years. This increase is actually larger than a number of deaths specifically attributed to covid. So most likely we have more people dead from covid than the official number says, not less.
They may not be tested but will have a doctor certify their cause of death and if CV is a contributory cause the doctor would put that on the death certificate. Then it gets reported as it is a reportable disease. There can be a time lag between the reporting of that and it getting into the daily deaths, certainly.
 
  • #1,030
They may not be tested but will have a doctor certify their cause of death and if CV is a contributory cause the doctor would put that on the death certificate. Then it gets reported as it is a reportable disease. There can be a time lag between the reporting of that and it getting into the daily deaths, certainly.

In the US, if a person is under the care of a physician and after a certain age, no autopsy or toxicology is required. So, we will never know the full extent of CoVid in the elderly population except through statistical analysis of excess deaths.

Indeed, anyone who dies of an ailment already diagnosed by a physician may elude an autopsy, as it's then up to the family. People are known to want to avoid autopsies for their loved ones.
 
  • #1,031
X
I am presuming there are also bunch of people passing away from covid who haven't been tested. Again, US has a large increase in deaths compared to previous years. This increase is actually larger than a number of deaths specifically attributed to covid. So most likely we have more people dead from covid than the official number says, not less.

My state reviewed deaths during March and April. If the symptoms were consistent with COVID-19 and no other clear cause of death they were presumed to be COVID-19 fatalities.
 
  • #1,032
X


My state reviewed deaths during March and April. If the symptoms were consistent with COVID-19 and no other clear cause of death they were presumed to be COVID-19 fatalities.

Right - and even now, the states continue to diverge from each other in almost every possible way (reporting, whether putting nursing homes into main numbers, when to reopen, how to reopen, etc etc)
 
  • #1,033
Are they increasing their testing?

Georgia National Guard helps increase COVID-19 testing

Georgia National Guard helps increase COVID-19 testing
By Spc. Tori Miller | Georgia National GuardMay 13, 2020

ATLANTA – The Georgia National Guard is helping increase COVID-19 testing across the state in partnership with the Georgia Department of Public Health and Augusta University.

“One way that we can alleviate suffering is to help set conditions to safely get our state on a guided path towards normalcy,” said Maj. Gen. Thomas Carden, adjutant general of the Georgia National Guard. “Testing is a function of alleviating that suffering.”

More than 600 Georgia National Guard members are supporting the testing mission, assisting state public health officials in testing more than 28,900 Georgians statewide. Members of the Guard intend to test up to 2,200 people a day.
size0.jpg
 
  • #1,034
  • #1,035
The part you're not getting is that children rarely show symptoms. So how could we ever test them in advance? If we wait until a child is symptomatic, it's too late.

Of course juvenile diabetes is diagnosed. That's my point. If a parent knows their child has this, then they know there's that one pre-existing condition (out of a possible 1000 conditions). Everyone else, with an apparently healthy child, will simply have to wonder if their child has one of the rare genes for thrombosis or for Kawasaki's.

We'd like to test every human, right? But a negative test today is not a predictor of next year's situation.

We are already testing children who have CoVid symptoms. In nearly every nation.

But most children do not have symptoms. Or the symptoms appear to be a mild cold.
I didn't suggest testing in advance. They have symptoms when they get sick. When they get sick is not too late to test. They were tested but were negative for CV. Most of these kids recovered. The one 14 yo who died was tested for CV19 post mortem and was positive but all kids were initially negative, recovered and left hospital. One other kid tested positive later too after recovery.
 
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  • #1,036
Italy's daily coronavirus death toll and new cases climb

“ROME (Reuters) - Deaths from the COVID-19 epidemic in Italy climbed by 262 on Thursday, against 195 the day before, the Civil Protection Agency said, while the daily tally of new cases rose to 992 from 888 on Wednesday.

It was the largest number of deaths in one day since May 7.”
Surprised and disappointed to learn cases in Italy have increased. I've been closely following Italy. Their numbers were looking good until recently. I was comparing the U.S. to Italy for a period of time thinking when Italy show a decline in numbers and deaths, the U.S. would follow. Don't know what to think anymore.
 
  • #1,037
And so, we also have 353 million taxpayers, compared to their 37 million. Your comparison is invalid.
I wish we had that many taxpayers.

TaxWatch
More than 44% of Americans pay no federal income tax
Published: Feb. 26, 2019 at 5:45 a.m. ET
More than 44% of Americans pay no federal income tax


We have a lot of people who don't pay federal taxes but who do receive federal benefits. So a financial crisis like this is a very difficult situation for a large, highly populated country.
 
  • #1,038
Yes all good here ze. My city has done really well. So far. 120 cases, 34 active cases presently and 2 deaths sadly. 1st death was way back in March and travel related. 2nd death today was a female on a vent for last several weeks. I don't know her age etc. Most of our cases have been from a Greenhouse outbreak recently.
Hope your return to work was ......comfortable.
 
  • #1,039
I didn't suggest testing in advance. They have symptoms when they get sick. When they get sick is not too late to test. They were tested but were negative for CV. Most of these kids recovered. The one 14 yo who died was tested for CV19 post mortem and was positive but all kids were initially negative, recovered and left hospital. One other kid tested positive later too after recovery.

Okay, I'm sorry then, I don't understand the point of trying to figure out who has pre-existing conditions that would help us prevent CoVId.

The US is already doing just what you describe. I was speaking about new measures for prevention of CoVid complications in kids. They are going to be hard to find, was my point.

Parents have got decisions to make, was what I was trying to get perspective on. If you had a school age child and could not know whether they were going to be the 1 in a million kid who has severe complications from CoVid, would you send them out?

Parents differ on their views on this question. I'm trying to look forward to future problems regarding children going back to school.
 
  • #1,040
Georgia National Guard helps increase COVID-19 testing

Georgia National Guard helps increase COVID-19 testing
By Spc. Tori Miller | Georgia National GuardMay 13, 2020

ATLANTA – The Georgia National Guard is helping increase COVID-19 testing across the state in partnership with the Georgia Department of Public Health and Augusta University.

“One way that we can alleviate suffering is to help set conditions to safely get our state on a guided path towards normalcy,” said Maj. Gen. Thomas Carden, adjutant general of the Georgia National Guard. “Testing is a function of alleviating that suffering.”

More than 600 Georgia National Guard members are supporting the testing mission, assisting state public health officials in testing more than 28,900 Georgians statewide. Members of the Guard intend to test up to 2,200 people a day.
size0.jpg

That's good. Positive cases should go up, but % testing positive should start going down as long as they keep up the testing. Jmo
 
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