Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #57

[nhmemorymaker]

Interesting study enrolling healthcare workers to investigate the use of melatonin as prophylaxis for covid.

"There is an urgent need to evaluate interventions that can prevent the infection with SARS-CoV 2 of healthcare workers at risk. Melatonin is an inexpensive and safe product with protective effect in both bacterial and viral infections likely due to its anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidative effects. This randomized controlled trial seeks to evaluate is efficacy as a prophylaxis in healthcare workers exposed to the virus in their clinical practice."

Efficacy of Melatonin in the Prophylaxis of Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Among Healthcare Workers. - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov

well...this is the first time we have heard about this, right?

 

[tabitha111]

so it begins...

Montgomery hospitals are out of ICU beds, mayor says
Alabama-Some of the River Region’s major hospitals have run out of intensive care beds and others only have one or two beds left, Montgomery Mayor Steven Reed said Wednesday at a press conference in Alabama’s capital city.



“Right now, if you’re from Montgomery, and you need an ICU bed, you’re in trouble,” Reed said. “If you are from Central Alabama, and you need an ICU bed, you may not be able to get one because our health care system has been maxed out.”


The mayor said Baptist Medical Center East, as of Wednesday morning, only has three remaining ICU beds available. Baptist South has no ICU beds, and Baptist Health Prattville has no ICU beds left. Jackson Hospital, in downtown Montgomery, has one ICU bed remaining.



Statewide, over the past week, the number of people hospitalized has increased and is above the levels seen in early to mid-April when Alabama was expected to hit a “peak” of resource usage.

 

[Chelly]

Well, let's look at the logistics of this since we're having such a good time tonight.

How is lunch hour going to work?

How is recess going to work?

How is music class, band, orchestra, and choir going to work?

How is basketball and other sports going to work and taking showers after going to work?

How is socializing with your classmates going to work?

What are they going to do with the children who have asthma and can't wear a mask?

How much time are the teachers going to spend with the little rascals who don't want to wear a mask and take them off?

How many times a day are masks going to have to be changed when kids sneeze into them?

How many masks is the school going to have to keep on hand for the kids who don't wear one to school or forget to wear them?

I could go on but I'm going to wait for your solutions first.

I know you've got this!

What I know is: children can be taught to wear a mask for an hour or so at a time.

It is up to the experts to work this out. That is above my pay grade

 

[Chelly]

I'd rather put a mask on my child than watch a ventilator tube shoved down her throat. Each to their own, I guess. jmo

Agree. Ditto. Amen!

 

[tresir2012]

Maybe that’s why PreP may be working. Is it an anti-viral?

I just came across this article in Pharmacy Times.

https://www.pharmacytimes.com/ajax/prep-medications-may-be-potential-covid-19-treatments

 

[10ofRods]

What's the point of the kids masks? Very few under 18 are dying in fact very few under 45 are dying but the evidence is that kids are not spreading it like it was initially thought. We know why surgeons and dentists wear them - to protect the patient, so why would school kids need them?

To protect teachers, is the main reason. While one kid may be a less likely transmitter, soon all the kids in the classroom will have CoVid and the viral load in the classroom will go up. That's why they're cutting class sizes in many places (entire states).

In the US and UK, the average age of death from CoVid is lower than in France, Spain, Italy and China. Diabetes and obesity rates are higher. Lots of teachers are in their 50's and early 60's. The liability to the school districts if just one teacher dies or has lifelong health consequences is enormous in the US.

Of course, kids with yet undiagnosed underlying conditions would also die or have serious consequences (more lawsuits).

Further, some people will homeschool their kids rather than have them get CoVid (which surely, many will do when schools open - we closed schools in California before the virus had really got a foothold in any of them, it was mostly L.A. Marathon runners who ended up spreading it in LA, but also LAX and hospitals themselves were a main vector).

I posted a link yesterday - 20% of hospitalized CoVid patients got a severe case from having been previously hospitalized. It's normal in infectious disease for hospitals and clinics to be vectors. But in a second wave, it will be the schools.

Up to 20% of hospital patients with Covid-19 caught it at hospital

(the link again)

While very few children will have serious consequences, the fate of teachers will not be free of CoVid. My granddaughter's teacher, for example, has a child who was born with cancer, has since developed another cancer, and is severely immune-compromised (but has reached her 5th birthday - her first year of life was entirely in a hospital, everyone had to be masked and gowned to visit her). That teacher is only 36. She's also the main breadwinner in her family.

So we better get crackin' with hiring new teachers to replace the ones who will have to quit (or go onto some sort of disability plan) when school starts. One of my colleagues has a wife who is severely immune-compromised. They don't want to homeschool their two children, at all, but that's what they'll have to do in August if kids go back without masks. Even with masks, it's going to be a worry.

At any rate, I think schools will end up closing their doors and consolidating - as yes, just that many people will homeschool. So many are already on the verge of doing it anyway. The collapse of public education has many longterm consequences, because the shared social values (and the need for self-control in public) will be impacted.

Interesting times, indeed.

 

[mickey2942]

What I know is: children can be taught to wear a mask for an hour or so at a time.
It is up to the experts to work this out. That is above my pay grade

From my experience teaching, kids model behavior at school that they see at home. If they don't see parents and caregivers wearing masks, the kids won't wear them.

 

[10ofRods]

Wow. It’s a tiny bit scary though- synthetic antibodies? I’m not sure how that even works. Or what it could do.

I do believe synthetic antibodies will be the solution to CoVid. My colleagues keep sending me articles about them. They're called monoclonal antibodies and can be synthesized in a CRISPR machine. This technology is already in use for offbeat diseases, but is, IMO, the most promising method for treating CoVId. I would get them in a heartbeat.

They are biochemically identical to the antibodies in human plasma, but without the issues of having to derive them from plasma and without needing tons and tons of donors.

 

[Chelly]

I had a dental cleaning this morning. I stayed in my car until the masked receptionist tapped on my window. The doors were permanently open. I had to fill out a short questionnaire and there was a pen holder for used pens. The hygienist took my temperature using a forehead reader before taking me back to the room. She was wearing an eye shield as well as a standard mask. The window was open in the room. (I was happy that it was a pleasant spring day here in Colorado.) Everyone in the practice was masked. The hygienist did almost everything using manual tools. Usually, my dentist comes into chat briefly, even for routine cleanings, but the hygienist says he is limiting patient contact where it is feasible at present. When I left, the receptionist wiped my credit card before returning it to me. I can't think of anything the practice could have done to make me feel any safer.

Thanks @COSCitizen for reporting on your dental experience. I've put off a dental cleaning for two months. I am working up the courage to make an appointment. Your post was a big help.

 

[Chelly]

We're approved to open our restaurant here in San Diego, California, with a laundry list of conditions.
We're not ready, lots to do. I've ordered face shields for all employees, elegant paper plates and a litany of other items.
Definitely not opening on a Friday night on the verge of a 3 day holiday, LOL.
Maybe this Tuesday if Amazon gets me my supply orders.

Yay!! Going in the right direction. I am optimistic for you @KALI

 

[Chelly]

... was going to rant more but prob not worth it...

C'mon. It is worth it.

 

[Chelly]

so it begins...

Montgomery hospitals are out of ICU beds, mayor says
Alabama-Some of the River Region’s major hospitals have run out of intensive care beds and others only have one or two beds left, Montgomery Mayor Steven Reed said Wednesday at a press conference in Alabama’s capital city.



“Right now, if you’re from Montgomery, and you need an ICU bed, you’re in trouble,” Reed said. “If you are from Central Alabama, and you need an ICU bed, you may not be able to get one because our health care system has been maxed out.”


The mayor said Baptist Medical Center East, as of Wednesday morning, only has three remaining ICU beds available. Baptist South has no ICU beds, and Baptist Health Prattville has no ICU beds left. Jackson Hospital, in downtown Montgomery, has one ICU bed remaining.



Statewide, over the past week, the number of people hospitalized has increased and is above the levels seen in early to mid-April when Alabama was expected to hit a “peak” of resource usage.

GROAN....Well, 'bama. Where ya been for past three months?

 

[gitana1]

I do believe synthetic antibodies will be the solution to CoVid. My colleagues keep sending me articles about them. They're called monoclonal antibodies and can be synthesized in a CRISPR machine. This technology is already in use for offbeat diseases, but is, IMO, the most promising method for treating CoVId. I would get them in a heartbeat.

They are biochemically identical to the antibodies in human plasma, but without the issues of having to derive them from plasma and without needing tons and tons of donors.

I see. How long have they been around? No danger of them attacking the body or anything?

 

[tresir2012]

I think the whole issue is to prevent spread. Kids are great sort of “vectors” for disease. It’s not so much that they’re at great risk of serious illness but that they go home and spread to parents, siblings, grandparents, neighbor kids, the mailman, people at church, and on and on.

For example, in a recent church outbreak case it appears that a lot of spread occurred during a three day children’s event during which kids played a game grabbing some item out of adults’ hands and then on another day singing. They were in close proximity with each other in rooms during these events.

That is not what is believed now as kids are not thought so likely to spread it to adults but the other way, ie adults spreading it to kids. I posted some links earlier today.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

It's not more risky to children's health. However, since so many grandparents take care of kids after school it's probably almost half the kids at my granddaughters school), then...new childcare has to be developed and the kids have to give up their customary time with family every day. Other kids go to aunts' houses (but those aunties are not always young). Some parents are immune-compromised (just among the colleagues in my daughter, there are 2 families with an immune-compromised member and school age kids). SO, a lot of kids will be homeschooled, and the schools won't get the funding, etc.

A 50 year old parent is "generally safe" if they are not obese (but 40% of American 50 year olds are obese and/or diabetic or with some other condition impairing health). In the case of my colleague's wife, she's only 40, but immune compromised longterm.

My granddaughters both go to grandparents' houses after school and I'm not sure the parents could afford to work if they had to pay for after school care (especially with the proposed reduced schedule - it's about $1000 a month per child here for that many hours). So, I wouldn't be able to continue picking up granddaughter (mom and dad are both essential workers). I probably would still do it, but the looks I get from Daughter when I say that are pretty grim. I'd be gambling my ability to survive the illness.

Teachers 50 and over would have to be allowed to stay out on disability for any underlying condition (expensive). This comes at a time when schools are planning 3 separate teaching sessions a day, with some children going to school later in the afternoon, meaning that new childcare arrangements must be made. Most of the time, this will involve family and many family daycare centers are run by people 50 and over.

I think they'll add in Zoom contact for each of these shifts, so obviously, more teachers will be needed. At a time when we've already been told that budgets for teachers and afterschool carers will be reduced 10%.

At any rate, we'll see a huge increase in homeschooling, as it will be easier to just drop the kids off at grandma's house than to deal with finding someone to pick a small child up after a short school day. We'll see lots more latchkey kids in the groups aged 10-11 and older, probably even younger. Just like 20 years ago, when it was still very much a thing.

Since I will be teaching from home for the rest of my life, apparently, or until I retire, it makes sense for me to school my granddaughter. Daughter already knows that several other nurses are going to do the same thing, so they'll organize play groups and social time. I feel really badly about this, because Granddaughter absolutely loves school, so we're all thinking about what to do. My daughter isn't comfortable with Granddaughter going to the homes of nurses who work in CoVid units or the ER (and most of her friends do exactly that).

If the schools can find a way of keeping the kids until 6 pm, so that parents can pick them up, that would help - but that's not the current reality and I doubt it can be organized by August. Schools are going to have their hands full sanitizing everything daily and separating the littles into smaller groups for instruction. Look for non-essential personnel at school to be cut. Last time there were severe budget issues in California, school buses changed routes. In fact, that's happened several times. Kids have to walk further to get to a nearby bus stop and kids within 2 miles of schools stopped receiving rides. School office staff is the next to go.

Pay freezes and pay cuts are already under discussion.

As for me, I've got my own ideas about how to boost immunity, but realistically, if I do pick Granddaughter up at school, I am likely to get CV-19 at some point next year. With less than 1% of the city where I live testing positive right now, there's sure to be a second wave (California in general tests 3% CV+, which is probably about the same as most states except some on the East Coast).

wow...this is a boatload of information @10ofRods but its also a canoe full of grim... such decisions....

 

[gitana1]

I had a dental cleaning this morning. I stayed in my car until the masked receptionist tapped on my window. The doors were permanently open. I had to fill out a short questionnaire and there was a pen holder for used pens. The hygienist took my temperature using a forehead reader before taking me back to the room. She was wearing an eye shield as well as a standard mask. The window was open in the room. (I was happy that it was a pleasant spring day here in Colorado.) Everyone in the practice was masked. The hygienist did almost everything using manual tools. Usually, my dentist comes into chat briefly, even for routine cleanings, but the hygienist says he is limiting patient contact where it is feasible at present. When I left, the receptionist wiped my credit card before returning it to me. I can't think of anything the practice could have done to make me feel any safer.

I need one too but have been nervous.

I’m guessing the staff also get temp readings every day?

If the hygienist is wearing a mask, unless they cough or sneeze it seems unlikely that anything could get into our airways. But being that close to their mouth with mine wide open scares me.

I’m hoping is safe because yeah, I don’t know what else they could do to make a person feel safer. Maybe wear a face shield? Could they even do the job wearing a face shield? Can they reach and stuff with that?

 

[LadyL]

Imagine people who have had family members pass away in these long term care facilities, with no family there because they weren't allowed in. I'm not saying it could have been different, but it would be unsettling to me to have to live with that.

my Dad died in hospital and none of us could visit him; only my Mom got in twice near the end
I'm really afraid that if we open up, vulnerable people like my Mom will die as well

 

[LadyL]

I read a heartbreaking account from a nurse recently ... who implemented a facetime call (on her own phone) between a near-death Covid patient and the patient's family, so they could say goodbye. She said that she has done this more than once ... and it breaks her heart every time.

my Dad's nurses did the same a couple of times

 

[gitana1]

That is not what is believed now as kids are not thought so likely to spread it to adults but the other way, ie adults spreading it to kids. I posted some links earlier today.

Can you link me? I would really like that info because it’s been a concern.

I based that statement on how kids don’t wash their hands, don’t understand social distancing, cough and sneeze without covering, pick their noses, touch dirty surfaces, put fingers in their mouths, share things that go in their mouths, etc.

I never got sick as often as when I taught preschool! Holy hell. And I was super young and very healthy!

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I just came across this article in Pharmacy Times.

https://www.pharmacytimes.com/ajax/prep-medications-may-be-potential-covid-19-treatments

says article not found.... but what do you mean by "prep" medications?