Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #60

[LadyL]

The 1st test of my will power since March. I have an Annual Pass, do I dare go?

Disneyland Resort Proposes Plans to Begin Phased Reopening July 9, with Proposed Reopening of Theme Parks July 17

nooooooooooo
don't do it

 

[jjenny]

Vent...My 89 year old father who is a recent, only been a year, cancer survivor is running around in and out of all the stores, and refuses to wear a mask. All 8 of us kids have sent him and my mother lots of masks btw I even had two specially made for him with the Air Force logos, with soft ties, and super comfortable...but nope, he refuse, even though our Gov made it mandatory. I give up on him, it saddens me that he puts my 87 year old mother at risk and my 60 year old disabled sister with diabetes, who had a bout of pneumonia at Christmas at risk!! Plus this is a suburb of DC, highly congested, high risk, high numbers.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

 

[tresir2012]

Prof Ferguson (the coronavirus stats adviser who quit his SAGE role for breaking lockdown) is the one who has said this. However, he does not appear to be apportioning blame on the government, saying “So whilst I think the measures, given what we knew about this virus then in terms of its transmission and fatality, were warranted, certainly had we introduced them earlier we would have seen many fewer deaths”

Meanwhile, Chris Whitty's number 1 regret is not testing faster:

Lockdown one week earlier could have halved UK's death toll, says ex-government scientist

As for the 1300 people bringing it into the UK, I have always thought it was those pesky half term skiing holidays that kickstarted it, it's a shame the airports weren't locked down sooner - we're on an island, we could have controlled it better. Difficult to just shut down one of the busiest airport hub countries in the world, but even a few days earlier would have helped.

I agree about the half term returning skiing travellers, but the musician Andrew Gill died from it and his wife believes it was caught from a bandmate who had caught it in China in November. So it was here then IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

P.S. Still looking for the study where they do the meta-analysis.

Found it;

Coronavirus Kills People an Average of a Decade Before Their Time, Studies Find

Obviously, people in actuarial science will take a second look at the data. But the models have to take into account that CoVid will be around for X number of years - and use the best estimate for length of time until CoVid is gone from North America, etc.

If we can't get rid of it (and most scientists think we won't - it will be like parts of the world where viruses become endemic, like dengue fever (only not as bad as dengue, obviously). Or places where malaria is endemic. The death rates should slow and that's why the numbers vary from the more depressing numbers in the previous link I posted.

But, in the meantime, since I know these numbers are in use in the financial and medical sectors, I'm working them into my own personal planning.

Again - we didn't used to have the number of people over 100 that we do today - and we already have fewer. That effects the numbers. Losing 5% of 90 somethings (if that happens over the next 18 months as predicted) is going to shave quite a bit off the total numbers.

 

[Cool Cats]

Vent...My 89 year old father who is a recent, only been a year, cancer survivor is running around in and out of all the stores, and refuses to wear a mask. All 8 of us kids have sent him and my mother lots of masks btw I even had two specially made for him with the Air Force logos, with soft ties, and super comfortable...but nope, he refuse, even though our Gov made it mandatory. I give up on him, it saddens me that he puts my 87 year old mother at risk and my 60 year old disabled sister with diabetes, who had a bout of pneumonia at Christmas at risk!! Plus this is a suburb of DC, highly congested, high risk, high numbers.

Hey Tabitha, I get what your saying but from the other direction. My dad is 88 this month and he was a lot like Trump in that he did not take the virus seriously. He said he had seen virus's and bacterial infections come and go many many times and they just go away, no big deal. This was mid-March before the official shut down orders. The 3 of us in my home were already not going out unless necessary but my dad was socializing like crazy as he always does. (He is young for his age).

He wanted me to come over on Friday March 20th but my son was afraid I shouldn't go because grandpa was "running" around. Tuesday March 17th my dad had plans to go to a large St. Patrick's day get-together at a popular pub (as they say in Great Britain) and I asked him not to go.

He scoffed at me that there is "nothing to worry about." Well my son was worried that's for sure and I told my son OK, maybe I wouldn't go see grandpa Friday - I was stuck in the middle between my dad and son.

So guess what happened? On the morning of March 17th, the Governor of my State declared that all restaurants and bars and other places would be shut down. So my dad did not get to go to his St. Patrick's celebration and be amongst crowds. I went to see him that Friday with a sigh of relief!

Then a curious thing occured....this is true....Cool Cats is a straight shooter. Both my son and I had plans with my dad for us both to come over the following week. So the day before we were going to come over my dad called me and said my son shouldn't come because he had to be cautious of Covid-19.

I was surprised to say the least considering it was my son who originally did not want he or I to go over to my dad's house and my dad always wants to see his grandson and complains he does not see him enough.

Since then my dad has been cautious and even has used masks that his neighbor gives him.

I don't know how he is going to respond now that things are opening back up. Will he continue from where he left off and socialize all over the place again? Or will he be more cautious? Guess I will find out this Friday when I go see him again!

During the 3 month shut down my dad said that his neighbor disapproved of me coming over to see him. He told his neighbor that he wanted to see me and it's "worth the risk." Basically he told the neighbor to "back off." After that (to this day) the neighbor has been bringing food over for me and my dad when she sees my car in my dad's driveway.

Well hope I didn't bore you'all with my family story! I enjoy reading you'alls personal stories........

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I agree about the half term returning skiing travellers, but the musician Andrew Gill died from it and his wife believes it was caught from a bandmates who had caught it in China in November.

I think that’s perfectly plausible. What the experts seem to be saying is that rather than there being a small handful of superspreaders who arrived from the Far East, there were hundreds and hundreds coming in from Europe too - flights packed full of Coronavirus.

 

[squareandrabbet]

I don't believe it because it does not make sense: if someone has the virus but is asymptomatic, how could they not spread it? it sounds like the WHO thinks it can only be spread by someone who has obvious symptoms like coughing and sneezing. Remember the WHO initially said (when the virus first appeared in China), that there was thought to be no transmission between people (how did that turn out?): then the WHO was against masks (now they are for masks): One just has to use one's brain and make your own determination what you believe -- and I agree they should not voice this kind of information without really knowing for sure -based on evidence.

It's an individual decision, but it just seems so obvious (to me, anyway) that there have always only been two choices with this: either stay locked up until the virus as been medically eradicated, or take your chances and hope that if you contract the virus, you are one of the 35% that doesn't even know it (yes, that figure is not certain, but it's the last I saw.)

Everything in between just looks and feels like what an OCD sufferer goes through, except played out on a societal scale. No amount of wishing or hectoring is going to change how people interact, in the U.S., anyway. If/when you finally do go out in the world, expect a massive shock - I can report that there is little to no distancing and/or other protocols being practiced in places that are open. I have been very cavalier about this, since the start, but am planning to start carrying my N95 mask everywhere I go - just in case.

And if you sneeze, remember, sometimes an allergy is still just an allergy.

There was "little to no distancing" for the recent protests, too; but the world in general was told somehow that wasn't supposed to matter. As if somehow a virus cares why you walked out the front door this morning.

A record number of retail stores are expected to permanently close this year - CNN

Child Abuse Cases Drop 51 Percent. The Authorities Are Very Worried.

(Translation: child abuse case reporting in the NYC area has decreased by 50% over the course of the pandemic, which in fact means that more children sequestered together with their abusive parents are at risk; because social workers of course can't get to visit them).

As for the "epidemiologists who might not go out for a full year" article, posted earlier: The point very much, IMO, is; we know that's not practical and many people won't do it.

Many people were in fact told they did not have to do it, for whatever reason.

They're still being told that today.

 

[sallye818]

Our VA Governor announced a phased plan to reopen schools--no one really knows when and each county seems to be on its own. Here are the plans:

TeacherGoals
on Sunday

 

[SoCalDavidS]

FYI....CNN is going to have a New episode with Sesame Street on Covid-19, this Saturday at 10 AM EST.

 

[10ofRods]

Vent...My 89 year old father who is a recent, only been a year, cancer survivor is running around in and out of all the stores, and refuses to wear a mask. All 8 of us kids have sent him and my mother lots of masks btw I even had two specially made for him with the Air Force logos, with soft ties, and super comfortable...but nope, he refuse, even though our Gov made it mandatory. I give up on him, it saddens me that he puts my 87 year old mother at risk and my 60 year old disabled sister with diabetes, who had a bout of pneumonia at Christmas at risk!! Plus this is a suburb of DC, highly congested, high risk, high numbers.

I think a lot of the very elderly (let's say 89 is getting pretty much up there) throw caution to the winds and want to live their last months/years in happiness and freedom.

My mom was still extremely cautious (3X cancer patient) at 86, and fortunately, my dad respected that. They stopped going to church, stopped going to family gatherings, or came only very briefly, that kind of thing. She was terrified of flu and pneumonia.

When she died, naturally Dad threw caution to the winds. I do think that some people's ability to think rationally begins to diminish a bit with age. Almost everyone over 80 isn't as quick and lucid as they were at 30. I feel for your mom and sister. They need to wear masks and face shields around him to make their point. And sleep in a separate room. If he gets really mad, it's probably because in his own way, he's really having a hard time too. But seriously, stubborn people need to yield just a little these days.

We were very glad when my mom's eventual death did not come from the flu or pneumonia or anything she could have thought was her "own fault." It did happen, however, when a cousin who is super dramatic and has other problems stopped by to tell my 86 year old mother that her favorite nephew, whom she had helped raise. was "dying of brain cancer," which wasn't quite true (it was another serious kind of cancer) and he's still alive. Dad called and said mom had collapsed on the couch (unable to sit up) right after Cousin left, was crying and incoherent and could I come over.

She was in fact incoherent, so we took her to the emergency room and in about 36 hours, she died of what was essentially a type of cytokine storm, primary cause was her rare leukemia, but I'll always believe it had an emotional trigger.

So stay calm and carry on, I guess, is the message. It's all SO stressful.

 

[Cool Cats]

FYI....CNN is going to have a New episode with Sesame Street on Covid-19, this Saturday at 10 AM EST.

This Sesame Street information is the 1st I've heard of a specific children's program aimed at children to teach them about viruses and related information. This is good. Glad to know.

This should help parents explain to their kids on the kid's level!

I miss Mr. Rogers!
Fred Rogers - Wikipedia

 

[10ofRods]

Hey Tabitha, I get what your saying but from the other direction. My dad is 88 this month and he was a lot like Trump in that he did not take the virus seriously. He said he had seen virus's and bacterial infections come and go many many times and they just go away, no big deal. This was mid-March before the official shut down orders. The 3 of us in my home were already not going out unless necessary but my dad was socializing like crazy as he always does. (He is young for his age).

He wanted me to come over on Friday March 20th but my son was afraid I shouldn't go because grandpa was "running" around. Tuesday March 17th my dad had plans to go to a large St. Patrick's day get-together at a popular pub (as they say in Great Britain) and I asked him not to go.

He scoffed at me that there is "nothing to worry about." Well my son was worried that's for sure and I told my son OK, maybe I wouldn't go see grandpa Friday - I was stuck in the middle between my dad and son.

So guess what happened? On the morning of March 17th, the Governor of my State declared that all restaurants and bars and other places would be shut down. So my dad did not get to go to his St. Patrick's celebration and be amongst crowds. I went to see him that Friday with a sigh of relief!

Then a curious thing occured....this is true....Cool Cats is a straight shooter. Both my son and I had plans with my dad for us both to come over the following week. So the day before we were going to come over my dad called me and said my son shouldn't come because he had to be cautious of Covid-19.

I was surprised to say the least considering it was my son who originally did not want he or I to go over to my dad's house and my dad always wants to see his grandson and complains he does not see him enough.

Since then my dad has been cautious and even has used masks that his neighbor gives him.

I don't know how he is going to respond now that things are opening back up. Will he continue from where he left off and socialize all over the place again? Or will he be more cautious? Guess I will find out this Friday when I go see him again!

During the 3 month shut down my dad said that his neighbor disapproved of me coming over to see him. He told his neighbor that he wanted to see me and it's "worth the risk." Basically he told the neighbor to "back off." After that (to this day) the neighbor has been bringing food over for me and my dad when she sees my car in my dad's driveway.

Well hope I didn't bore you'all with my family story! I enjoy reading you'alls personal stories........

Opposite of boredom. I'm proud of your dad for making that adaptation and it gives me hope.

 

[oviedo]

I think a lot of the very elderly (let's say 89 is getting pretty much up there) throw caution to the winds and want to live their last months/years in happiness and freedom.

My mom was still extremely cautious (3X cancer patient) at 86, and fortunately, my dad respected that. They stopped going to church, stopped going to family gatherings, or came only very briefly, that kind of thing. She was terrified of flu and pneumonia.

When she died, naturally Dad threw caution to the winds. I do think that some people's ability to think rationally begins to diminish a bit with age. Almost everyone over 80 isn't as quick and lucid as they were at 30. I feel for your mom and sister. They need to wear masks and face shields around him to make their point. And sleep in a separate room. If he gets really mad, it's probably because in his own way, he's really having a hard time too. But seriously, stubborn people need to yield just a little these days.

We were very glad when my mom's eventual death did not come from the flu or pneumonia or anything she could have thought was her "own fault." It did happen, however, when a cousin who is super dramatic and has other problems stopped by to tell my 86 year old mother that her favorite nephew, whom she had helped raise. was "dying of brain cancer," which wasn't quite true (it was another serious kind of cancer) and he's still alive. Dad called and said mom had collapsed on the couch (unable to sit up) right after Cousin left, was crying and incoherent and could I come over.

She was in fact incoherent, so we took her to the emergency room and in about 36 hours, she died of what was essentially a type of cytokine storm, primary cause was her rare leukemia, but I'll always believe it had an emotional trigger.

So stay calm and carry on, I guess, is the message. It's all SO stressful.

People around me seem to think all is back to normal - the news stations aren’t doing the banners now with Covid updates either - it’s hard to make the family stay home when everything is opening back up - I don’t know what is right anymore - I’m still using a mask and staying home except for grocery shopping.... the older lawyers however are staying home and no live hearings either so I’m taking my cue from them
jMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Opposite of boredom. I'm proud of your dad for making that adaptation and it gives me hope.

Thankx @10ofRods!.......

 

[anneg]

So sad for the little children, who are missing so much. And their parents, and you, and ... pretty much everyone.

I wonder when we will get to see our son and DIL and our two grandsons again. They are New Englanders, and we're in NC. I'm glad we visited them twice last year (summer and Christmas). Older grandson is in your neck of the woods at UCSB, by the way.

This was a reply to @10ofRods post 347, but the quoted post did not show up in my post. ??

 

[gngr~snap]

FYI....CNN is going to have a New episode with Sesame Street on Covid-19, this Saturday at 10 AM EST.

Yes! Here is the past one from
April 25, 2020.
It had 6 parts total, I believe.
Part 1: Entire CNN/Sesame Street coronavirus town hall (April 25) - CNN Video
Moo

 

[SoCalDavidS]

People around me seem to think all is back to normal - the news stations aren’t doing the banners now with Covid updates either - it’s hard to make the family stay home when everything is opening back up - I don’t know what is right anymore - I’m still using a mask and staying home except for grocery shopping.... the older lawyers however are staying home and no live hearings either so I’m taking my cue from them
jMO

You could also take a cue from Celebrities and News Personalities. Most are still working from home, and you see practically every interview taking place remotely. But there's a certain inertia moving everything in one direction, so it will be interesting to see how cautious some in the public eye continue to be, regardless of what the powers that be are saying.

 

[MrX]

I saw asymptomatic spread was the news of the day. Since it's spread by people coughing/sneezing/spewing up their Covid droplets everywhere, it seems logical that if you are doing that, you are symptomatic. If you have no symptoms, by the very definition, you are not hacking up all over the place. And as for contact transfer, if that was as viable as some think then our entire logistics system would be down. My wife asked the UPS guy how many folks have come down with it and he said "none." I was talking to a retired fire chief, the other day, and his concern was all the cancer that will be caused by the abuse of hand-sanitizer.

Just had a great dinner at one of our favorite places in the city. Staff was so cute with their little bandannas around their necks, like Golden Retrievers.

 

[10ofRods]

I was pretty sure that the longer you’ve already lived, the longer your life expectancy is, so thanks for confirming. But yikes! 79 isn’t old old. On two of the calculators (with the most questions) I came out at 92, which is how old my Mom was when she died. The third one with fewer questions was 88, which is my 75 year old husbands life expectancy. But I figure the 85 you mentioned is more realistic. My Mom was pretty much “done” in her late 80’s, so I understand your Dad.

People on my bio-dad's side tend to die young (he died at 72, his parents at 42 and 45). People on my bio-mom's side live a looong time (grandma died at 99, grandpa at 92, and mom is currently 82 and pretty darned healthy and is living the life, truly).

I do think attitude is one of the things they can't build into these models. My father (not my bio-dad) was an amazingly adaptable person who managed to keep a sense of humor in the most dire times. He lived the longest of any of his siblings. And his mother lived the longest of any of her siblings - because she had the most amazing attitude. She was not a doormmat, she was not cranky, she liked managing her own life - and she loved people and dogs, especially. She was happy and she was extremely optimistic up until the end (drove until a few months before she died at 96, lived alone until nearly the end).

 

[SoCalDavidS]

Back in the real world. Coachella was cancelled, but not just cancelled, the organizers went a bit further. They are looking at 2 possibilities for 2021. Either a scaled back Festival in the regular month of April, but at 50% capacity (65K), or a 100% capacity (125K) Festival, in October 2021.
Coachella Festival Canceled In 2020, Says Public Health Commissioner
https://nypost.com/2020/06/10/coachella-2020-canceled-festival-organizers-announce/