Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #60

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #761
Sounds like a good starting point! I would have to be close to my house so I could run home to use the bathroom. I hope everyone wears masks.

Yes--the odds are good I will need to use the bathroom while I'm there (bladder issues). But we won't be very close to our house. So I'll dehydrate myself somewhat and not drink much while we are there. But if I need to go, I will, and wash up well afterwards. I'll also take along my own hand sanitizer.
 
  • #762
I have a small bottle of hand sanitizer in my purse. Just remember you'll be touching your mask when you pull it down to eat or drink. So will everyone else (and I predict people will leave their masks down quite a bit as they eat and drink). Hand sanitizer is a good habit for situations like this.

Hopefully everyone will have a sense of humor about this "new normal," which we all hope is temporary.

I'm sure you are right. I'll take hand sanitizer for DH and me plus a small one in my purse just in case.

We've been having weekly "cocktail hour" gatherings with these folks via Zoom, so it will be great to be face to face, albeit distantly. :)
 
  • #763
Exactly - hence my suggestion of Pest Houses and specialized clinics. There is a possibility that there will never be a vaccine. So set up a plan where access to a clinic is granted to those who completely check out of society, and those who can afford it. Everyone else goes to a mass-production treatment facility. If healthcare workers don't want anything to do with this, they don't have to work in that branch of medicine. Problem of hospital overload solved.

I know it's a broken record, but the idea that can "distance" ourselves out of this is insane. The world needs to continue.

My Covid Warrior friends are all cheering the fact that I have become a Mask Evangelist. My sermon is "You don't have to fear the virus, but you do have to fear a healthcare industry that is targeting our way of life in order to protect their Elective Surgery gravy train. Don't give them the optics they need - wear a mask and don't act like an idiot."

What you just proposed is a radical form of distancing, similar to China's or North Korea's. It's still using distancing.

Good luck selling that to the US. Or the UK.

"That branch of medicine" would be like the leper houses of the past. You might want to look into it. And the "checked out" people number about 40% of the population right now - who will support that?

Anyway, by allowing people who are CV+ to have their own clinics (once they are diagnosed) wouldn't keep CoVid out of the sheltered population unless those people literally are shut in. And the hospitals who were treating "healthy people" would continue to have outbreaks of CoVid (since it's transmissible before symptoms occur). They would then have to be sent to special ICU-capable hospitals (where?)

55% of people who test positive for CV will need hospitalization. Hospital stays for CoVId are among the lengthiest observed for any illness. People get out of the hospital with $1M in medical debt.

4 in 1000 40-somethings who get covid will die. If this sounds l0w to you, then you really should not be too worried about things like drunk drivers or speeders or wearing seatbelts, either. Heck, 1 in 100,000 40-somethings will die of flu - so why in heck do we even bother with flu shots?

Fortunately, only 2 in 1000 (1 in 500) thirty-somethings will die in this next phase. Older people will obviously lock themselves away if at all possible, so rates of death will fall. But it saddens me that we worry about deaths that are 1 in 100,000 or 1 in 1,000,000 in other circumstances.

For kids, it will be even lower - perhaps 1 in 10,000 or even 1 in 25,000. But as that happens, where are you intending to send the parents (who need quarantining). Or do they get to just go on with business as usual, infecting others?

You are right that if we allow this to rip through our nation unobstructed (while giving people like me a special hospital to go to - although I know that when the pandemic gets larger, that will quickly fall by the wayside)...we will have way more deaths, but we will get to something like herd immunity and eventually near zero cases. In about 12-18 months, if we really make no effort to protect anyone. Healthcare workers will still die, as the viral load will be enormous and no amount of PPE is perfectly protective - and there won't be spacesuits for everyone.

Overall mortality in the US is predicted to be about 1M given current SoC. The main anti-viral in use is about to run out. There are some newer palliative treatments, otherwise the mortality would probably be 1.3 million. If the very elderly (over 80) are completely out of the mix, it might be only 800,000. And you're saying "no biggie," let's make sure we have enough gadgets and entertainment experiences.

To me, as long as we have food and essential services, we can ride this out in a more humane way (but we're not going to - so you are very likely to get your wishes, except of course there will be no "CoVid-only" clinics as the people have to go somewhere else to get tested and the genie is therefore already flitting outside the bottle.
 
  • #764
I talked to a good friend with whom I hadn’t spoken in a while.

She is a brilliant person and very highly educated college professor. She told me she thinks this is all a “conspiracy designed to control people”. She also complained about wearing a mask and how this is a violation of her rights.

I just don’t get it.

I bet I know where she gets her news.
 
  • #765
  • #766
  • #767
I'm sure you are right. I'll take hand sanitizer for DH and me plus a small one in my purse just in case.

We've been having weekly "cocktail hour" gatherings with these folks via Zoom, so it will be great to be face to face, albeit distantly. :)

I went out yesterday for an estate planning appointment and I took my sanitizer as a last minute idea (doh). I was SO glad because I was tempted to touch my mask several times and I was glad I had it when I did need to remove my mask (I was pacing around outside waiting for papers to be given to me).

It's just all so foreign. Since I know that on any given day, before CoVid, in a room of 100 students, at least 5 were coughing - we'll all be a little tense in the future when we hear coughing and sneezing.
 
  • #768
I talked to a good friend with whom I hadn’t spoken in a while.

She is a brilliant person and very highly educated college professor.

She told me she thinks this is all a “conspiracy designed to control people”.

I quickly steered the conversation because I’ve already banged heads with enough of my friends.

I don’t understand though how even highly educated people just will not accept this virus at face value, and give it the respect it needs so we can overcome it.

She also complained about wearing a mask and how this is a violation of her rights.

I just don’t get it.

I have a good friend who is a highly educated college professor - but not in the biological sciences. He also pooh-poohs almost every finding a sociologist might make. He pooh-poohs the fact that some people have genes that make them more susceptible to severe consequences of CoVid.

He is a very healthy 75 year old who mostly teaches very small classes, and while he doesn't really think about it, he is a pretty reclusive guy. Has one full grown son he sees only occasionally, no grandkids. Never has to use public transport. Doesn't have to work in an office building with A/C. Never goes near a hospital, doesn't visit friends or family in hospital, etc (hasn't for years - although many of us visited him when he broke a few bones one time).

Whereas, over in my department (even when we are not going to campus), we talk about mutations of Sars-Corona-2 virus, how worried we are about the one strain that is more stable (i.e., infectious), which is the version that appeared first in Italy and then spread to New York (where there are obviously other versions as well).

Those of us who are more active within communities and who have students who have been so ill from CV (they all work in care homes, btw), take a different view. And nursing instructors, well, they are the opposite of the deniers. They've seen it. EMT profs, as well, are quite serious about it.
 
  • #769
NZ economy greatly depends on trade though. E.g. their lamb exports and import of manufactured goods. Tourism and Farming are their two biggest industries, very similar to Wales and similar size population.

As I stated earlier, this is a topic well-addressed by economists specializing in such economies. I have every reason to believe that New Zealand can use that knowledge to navigate this hopefully short term (1-2 year) situation.

Every place in the world is suffering due to lack of tourism and there are places with more tourism than New Zealand. Yep, they'll miss some "manufactured goods."

But so will the US and UK, as we aren't going to be getting nearly as many. China is not at all thrilled about shipping to either nation. Both US and UK's trade with China is currently "constrained."

Normally, both nations could use other ports as intermediary stopping points, but that too has gotten more difficult.

The UK is going to suffer major losses as measured by GDP through this year. Whereas, I believe, New Zealand's contraction will be less. They are way more self-sufficient when pressed (being an island in the middle of the Pacific) than Wales is currently. But if UK can't use Irish and other European ports come January 1, UK will certainly feel it.

And if Mexico and Canada don't resume normal trade relationships with US, we'll feel it even more (this reopening is not going to bring back international tourism here in the US).

BTW, Tourism is slightly less than 6% of New Zealand's economy. Not even close to being "one of their biggest industries."

Tourism in New Zealand - Wikipedia).

Farming is slightly less than tourism (only 5% of GDP). Of that percentage, less than half is for export.

They'll be fine. They are ready for this and have been active in the world conferences on how to create an economy that is not GDP-based, but has other values at its core. Also, about 20% of their trade is with Australia, which I predict will normalize and then increase.

But New Zealand has been having good internal conversation about their dropping GDP for 10 years - as it was predicted and has already been occurring. US and UK haven't had that happen yet - and we seem to be terrified of it, but there are solutions and it is not a good measure of economic health, IMO.
 
  • #770
Yes--the odds are good I will need to use the bathroom while I'm there (bladder issues). But we won't be very close to our house. So I'll dehydrate myself somewhat and not drink much while we are there. But if I need to go, I will, and wash up well afterwards. I'll also take along my own hand sanitizer.
anneg, others may disagree with me on what I'm about to say but I would think your hosts will have a very clean bathroom given that they are having company. If you use sanitizer before and after a bathroom trip,I think that might be better than dehydrating yourself, especially since it's Summertime.
 
  • #771
  • #772
We have been invited to a small outdoor gathering tomorrow afternoon. There will be 6 or 7 adults and we will be in one couple's back patio/yard. Social distancing will be observed. DH and I will wear masks, and I hope everyone else will, too. We will take our own beverages/snacks.

This is our first in-person social event since the shutdown. Even though I feel that it will be safe, I'm still a little worried.

You sound as if you are taking proper precautions. I think the biggest concern I would have @anneg, is if someone impulsively ran up to me to give me a hug or otherwise didn’t keep a good distance away (personally, I think 6 feet is still too close, especially if someone isn’t wearing a mask). I’m afraid I don’t have confidence that may friends will be as careful as I am.
JMO
 
  • #773
anneg, others may disagree with me on what I'm about to say but I would think your hosts will have a very clean bathroom given that they are having company. If you use sanitizer before and after a bathroom trip,I think that might be better than dehydrating yourself, especially since it's Summertime.

Thanks. I’m sure the bathroom will be clean, and limiting liquids can backfire, especially in hot weather.
 
  • #774
You sound as if you are taking proper precautions. I think the biggest concern I would have @anneg, is if someone impulsively ran up to me to give me a hug or otherwise didn’t keep a good distance away (personally, I think 6 feet is still too close, especially if someone isn’t wearing a mask). I’m afraid I don’t have confidence that may friends will be as careful as I am.
JMO

I wish we could all hug each other. But we know better...sadly.
 
  • #775
Thanks. I’m sure the bathroom will be clean, and limiting liquids can backfire, especially in hot weather.

I honestly see no problem with wearing a depends just in case. Moo JMO. I don’t expect this to be a popular post LOL.
 
  • #776
This op ed writer in The Atlantic (under "Ideas"), seems to think it is trivial that people have to go back to work to survive, and therefore have had to make hard choices. Instead, he writes, sensationally:

"Thanks to the effort of millions of people, we were close to a great success story. But because of the failures of Trump and Chauvin, of the CDC and the WHO, of public-health experts and Fox News hosts, we are, instead, likely to give up—and tolerate that hundreds of thousands of our fellow citizens will die needless deaths."

What are we setting up as a country for a second wave, or for a new contagen.

I read about the new outbreak in China, and my heart breaks. But they have a "plan", and truly know how to track and trace.

We are all "hoping" we can live in this "in between state" without too too many deaths. But what have we learned? Anything?

The only think we know about America's plans for the future is that "there will never be a lockdown again".
I feel all of us in America are living as the cartoon says.....
 

Attachments

  • funnies miracle happens here.jpg
    funnies miracle happens here.jpg
    26.1 KB · Views: 14
  • #777
I could not agree more. Although I wear a mask, I'm beginning to feel like an alien. It's like everything is going back to a pre-virus normal without, of course, things being normal, and I keep wondering if coronavirus will be taken seriously again. It seems to me that Americans, as a whole, have become uncaring and just want to get back to their own normal lives no matter if others are hospitalized and dying. I never thought I would see this side of so many individuals.
But you ARE agreeing with the article.
Rather than LEARNING as a country to do better and still work HARD to do both---> go back to work, and steadfastly follow the medical and healthcare guidance we are trying to go BACKWARDS to a former state.. that state no longer exists. Hardly anyone wears a mask where I live. When I talk to my son and my daughter living in different states...EVERYone is wearing a mask. What gives?
 
  • #778
Well he does qualify it. They did have a large amount of care home deaths.

"Dr Tegnell, who is Sweden's state epidemiologist and in charge of the country's response to Covid-19, told BBC News in April that the high death toll was mainly because homes for the elderly had been unable to keep the disease out, although he emphasised that "does not disqualify our strategy as a whole".

p08bdghg.jpg


Media captionSwedish state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell argued in April that Sweden’s strategy is largely working.

Now he has told Swedish public radio: "If we were to encounter the same disease again, knowing exactly what we know about it today, I think we would settle on doing something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done." "

As an example about 8 countries have higher deaths per million including the UK and Belgium. Also 10 US states have a higher death rate.

Per million Deaths cases

Sweden 483 and 5,045
UK 614 and 4,337
USA 354 and 6,436
Ten US states are higher than Sweden eg NY is highest with 1,587 deaths and 20,754 cases per million.

I do agree with him. It does not disqualify their strategy as a whole. I still feel that the Swedish plan has been a very important learning for the world, for the future.
 
  • #779
I honestly see no problem with wearing a depends just in case. Moo JMO. I don’t expect this to be a popular post LOL.
Thats a good idea!! I would think that way if being in strange bathrooms.
 
  • #780
What are we setting up as a country for a second wave, or for a new contagen.

I read about the new outbreak in China, and my heart breaks. But they have a "plan", and truly know how to track and trace.

We are all "hoping" we can live in this "in between state" without too too many deaths. But what have we learned? Anything?

The only think we know about America's plans for the future is that "there will never be a lockdown again".
I feel all of us in America are living as the cartoon says.....

I’m thinking and wondering and hoping that after more people get infected and learn how truly horrible it can be, and after more people are dropping like flies and hospitals are overwhelmed and look like Wuhan (bodies stacked in the waiting rooms, etc), that some people MAY approach it more seriously this second time around, but that’s probably not the case.

I’m sick seeing this about China. We are stuck in a vicious loop.

In the June 8 WHO PC, Dr. Mike was expressing his concern about Central and South America. He did say though that they are experienced with eradication of polio and measles.

Anyone following the new outbreak of Ebola in DRC? They had justttt thought they had finally eradicated it and it’s popped up again.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
125
Guests online
2,661
Total visitors
2,786

Forum statistics

Threads
632,677
Messages
18,630,346
Members
243,248
Latest member
nonameneeded777
Back
Top