Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #76

[tresir2012]

I have a theory, no evidence or MSM articles.

Businesses do not like contact tracing. Because, if one person at work tests positive, that could potentially shut down a business for 2 weeks. As all contacts close to positive case need to be on quarantine.

Businesses also do not like "surveillance testing", testing people weekly, because this potentially identifies a positive case before the person feels symptoms or identifies asymptomatic people.

Believe it or not, we live in a society that prefers to ignore this virus. Many people see it as a "drama", and minimize the community health concerns.

The implications of this are staggering. The CDC could be influenced by lobbyists who are not promoting public health interest, but big corporations.

Of course this is very likely and possible. But also science and pharmaceutical also have heavy lobbying powers so I think it probably all works out.

 

[tresir2012]

We did charter flights to fly our citizens home. And we still charter flights to fly our citizens home.

Ever since the outbreak in Melbourne, we have capped those flights at 4,000 people per week. (They were initially capped at 7,000 people per week.)

The reason that we have done this is due to our hotel quarantine system. We need to bring home the quantity of people we can safely quarantine, without stressing the systems too much.
The quarantined people need to be bused, housed, then watched (obviously, after Melbourne), fed, tested twice per person, and people need to run around and get them everything they want.

Almost none of these returning citizens are coming from a 'safe' country. They are coming from countries that are loaded up with the virus.

As was stated in a previous post, flights were flying freely until the end of March when the initial capping went into place. My US visitor flew back to the US in June on one of the in/out charter flights.

Australians were warned and warned and warned that the borders were closing and coming home would grow more difficult. (As was my US visitor, in regular emails from the US embassy.)

'I'm screwed': Australians fear being stranded overseas after inbound flights slashed

Well at 4,000 a week it will take 6 months for the reported 100,000 to get home which seems a long time to leave citizens stranded in a foreign country. Some of those reported had jobs that have since finished (like the teacher in the example) and probably won't have finances to stay abroad for that length of time. I am very grateful my son did not have to wait 6 months to get home during a pandemic.

 

[Cool Cats]

Except that during a pandemic there IS a communal ethical obligation, even if not a legal one, to not do things that might put others at risk. Especially not to do things that are not essential things. Bars and crowded vacations are not essential things during a pandemic.

People think "I don't feel sick so I don't have it thus I'm not going to give it to anyone" but they forget about or disregard how asymptomatic this virus is. A portion of the people who say that DO have it and DO spread it to others.

Once we all had warning of the existence of the pandemic and the information about transmission risks, going to a bar or restaurant and having sufficiently close contact with others IS, demonstrably, "not caring for others", IMO MOO.

Just hope those who attended Sturgis are content with their decision to do so now that cases are developing linking Sturgis. Sure angers me that they cared not for their fellow human beings.

IMO that's like saying anyone who goes to a bar or restaurant or goes on vacation did not care for their fellow man and that just is not true.

With respect I strongly disagree. If bars, restaurants and vacation spots are open, it is because the local governor or governing body believe it is safe to continue those activities under specific circumstances and mandates. I live in just such a community and it is essential to those living and working here that community spread is low enough for those activities to be open.

The point is not about going to these events, its about what do people do AFTER the event?

If someone wants to go to a crowded event without masks and social distancing then have at it but then stay the heck away from everyone else afterward for 14 days.

Lock yourself away. Get tested. No one has a right to go to these events then go to Aunt Em's house without telling her where you just were, or go into public places without a mask, or invite people over who don't know where you have been.

The moral obligation is to quarantine yourself and get tested after going to these events, and to tell others where you have been etc....

Be reckless with your own health if you so choose, but afterward leave the rest of us alone. Someone is going to get seriously sued one of these days.

All Opinion.

 

[Trino]

Well at 4,000 a week it will take 6 months for the reported 100,000 to get home which seems a long time to leave citizens stranded in a foreign country. Some of those reported had jobs that have since finished (like the teacher in the example) and probably won't have finances to stay abroad for that length of time. I am very grateful my son did not have to wait 6 months to get home during a pandemic.

100,000 still stranded. OMG. What will they do for $?

 

[Trino]

The point is not about going to these events, its about what do people do AFTER the event?

If someone wants to go to a crowded event without masks and social distancing then have at it but then stay the heck away from everyone else afterward for 14 days.

Lock yourself away. Get tested. No one has a right to go to these events then go to Aunt Em's house without telling her where you just were, or go into public places without a mask, or invite people over who don't know where you have been.

The moral obligation is to quarantine yourself and get tested after going to these events, and to tell others where you have been etc....

Be reckless with your own health if you so choose, but afterward leave the rest of us alone. Someone is going to get sued one of these days. All opinion.

I do not really believe those who went to Sturgis are voluntarily going to self-quarantine. Most are screaming about their freedom.

 

[Cool Cats]

I do not really believe those who went to Sturgis are voluntarily going to self-quarantine. Most are screaming about their freedom.

The point was about the societal and moral obligation one owes to one's fellow man and woman.

 

[SouthAussie]

100,000 still stranded. OMG. What will they do for $?

Money problems overseas

Guide to emergency assistance overseas for Australians | finder.com.au

 

[mickey2942]

100,000 still stranded. OMG. What will they do for $?

I think that is a huge problem. Most of these folks came on B1 visa, visa waiver program. They cannot work with that visa. They don't have papers to work. And it doesn't look like the US government really cares about this.

 

[tresir2012]

I do not really believe those who went to Sturgis are voluntarily going to self-quarantine. Most are screaming about their freedom.

Well the 103 or so that have been contact traced will have to won't they?

 

[SouthAussie]

I think that is a huge problem. Most of these folks came on B1 visa, visa waiver program. They cannot work with that visa. They don't have papers to work. And it doesn't look like the US government really cares about this.

The 'stranded' overseas Aussies are eligible for emergency loans from our govt. Those that need those loans, that is.

Even under non-covid conditons, our govt pays for legal assistance - lawyers and such - for Australians who land themselves in hot trouble overseas. I have been astounded when following criminal cases in Bali how much our govt pays to help these people, even when they are guilty. In excess of $200,000 in one 'small' case I was following. Who knows how much in the big cases.

Many of these people who are 'stranded' have made really poor decisions (there are a few exceptions). Instead of returning when they easily could - when things were already bad in the countries they were in - they opted to wait until they saw things were getting worse, while things were quite good here, then decided they wanted to come home.

They are not getting a lot of empathy from the Australian community. They will have to wait for their turn, just like all of us are waiting for things to ease up, and keeping ourselves safe in the meantime.

 

[MimosaMornings]

We did charter flights to fly our citizens home. And we still charter flights to fly our citizens home.

Ever since the outbreak in Melbourne, we have capped those flights at 4,000 people per week. (They were initially capped at 7,000 people per week.)

The reason that we have done this is due to our hotel quarantine system. We need to bring home the quantity of people we can safely quarantine, without stressing the systems too much.
The quarantined people need to be bused, housed, then watched (obviously, after Melbourne), fed, tested twice per person, and people need to run around and get them everything they want.

Almost none of these returning citizens are coming from a 'safe' country. They are coming from countries that are loaded up with the virus.

As was stated in a previous post, flights were flying freely until the end of March when the initial capping went into place. My US visitor flew back to the US in June on one of the in/out charter flights.

Australians were warned and warned and warned that the borders were closing and coming home would grow more difficult. (As was my US visitor, in regular emails from the US embassy.)

'I'm screwed': Australians fear being stranded overseas after inbound flights slashed

“Nicola Harford says she didn't plan on coming home … but then she lost her job and her husband's hours were reduced.

Natalie Sherman moved to the Netherlands two years ago.

Evan Steer has lived in Hong Kong for 20 years, but said the dual issues facing the city at the moment — coronavirus and crackdowns on personal freedoms by China — could mean some Australians would be forced to move home even if they hadn't planned to.”

It sounds like these people in the article had moved to other countries to live and had not planned to go back to Australia? Or perhaps students?

 

[tresir2012]

I think that is a huge problem. Most of these folks came on B1 visa, visa waiver program. They cannot work with that visa. They don't have papers to work. And it doesn't look like the US government really cares about this.

These are mainly Australians working in Europe and around the world, not just the US, I believe.

 

[Clair Louise]

I think that is a huge problem. Most of these folks came on B1 visa, visa waiver program. They cannot work with that visa. They don't have papers to work. And it doesn't look like the US government really cares about this.

This is about Australians stranded overseas who did not go home when they were warned that the borders would close.

 

[CSIDreamer]

More than 1,200 students test positive for COVID-19 at major university

As of Saturday, more than 1,200 students and 166 employees and staff have tested positive for COVID-19 at the University of Alabama.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

The point is not about going to these events, its about what do people do AFTER the event?

If someone wants to go to a crowded event without masks and social distancing then have at it but then stay the heck away from everyone else afterward for 14 days.

Lock yourself away. Get tested. No one has a right to go to these events then go to Aunt Em's house without telling her where you just were, or go into public places without a mask, or invite people over who don't know where you have been.

The moral obligation is to quarantine yourself and get tested after going to these events, and to tell others where you have been etc....

Be reckless with your own health if you so choose, but afterward leave the rest of us alone. Someone is going to get seriously sued one of these days.

All Opinion.

100% agree. People have a right to choose to take risks with their own health if they wish. But unless one is an absolute hermit (which isn't even really possible -- everyone gets groceries and mail, at a minimum, and normally more often than a quarantine period lasts) then one puts others at risk if not very careful.

IMO the angry/defiant attitude of the attendees is more of a problem than the actual exposure, because it tells us they are unlikely to manage that exposure in a way to minimize the risk to others. This is what scares me most about being surrounded by people who don't take it seriously and to take the actions consistent with that caution.

Well the 103 or so that have been contact traced will have to won't they?

Sadly, probably not. They'll no doubt be told to, but there is unlikely to be any enforcement, and as I've just mentioned above, these don't seem like folks who will take it seriously and do the responsible thing on their own. I really hope I'm wrong about that though.

 

[CSIDreamer]

This is about Australians stranded overseas who did not go home when they were warned that the borders would close.

How are they paying for food and housing if they can't work? Am I reading this right?

 

[SouthAussie]

“Nicola Harford says she didn't plan on coming home … but then she lost her job and her husband's hours were reduced.

Natalie Sherman moved to the Netherlands two years ago.

Evan Steer has lived in Hong Kong for 20 years, but said the dual issues facing the city at the moment — coronavirus and crackdowns on personal freedoms by China — could mean some Australians would be forced to move home even if they hadn't planned to.”

It sounds like these people in the article had moved to other countries to live and had not planned to go back to Australia? Or perhaps students?

Yes, there are many stories about people who actually reside overseas - and have for a long time - who now want to come back here.
Those that have been residing overseas would be able to get support from those countries. As many of them have been working overseas, and paying taxes, they will be eligible for that country's unemployment payments.

The govt (via embassies) is prioritising who gets to return first, in the 4,000 persons each week capping. The ones whose needs are greatest are put at the top of the list.

 

[tresir2012]

This is about Australians stranded overseas who did not go home when they were warned that the borders would close.

This article gives examples of why they could not get home. Most wanted to get home but circumstances like I gave about my son regarding his cancelled flights by foreign countries are what has prevented them returning.

Coronavirus has stopped Australians from returning home. Here are their stories - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

It was no fault of their's but was circumstantial to the pandemic.

 

[SouthAussie]

This article gives examples of why they could not get home. Most wanted to get home but circumstances like I gave about my son regarding his cancelled flights by foreign countries are what has prevented them returning.

Coronavirus has stopped Australians from returning home. Here are their stories - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

It was no fault of their's but was circumstantial to the pandemic.

They all have a sad story. If they are truly in the greatest need, they will be at the top of the list. Having a sad story published in MSM is not going to show that their need is greater than others.
If they have family to stay with (many of them do) and are relatively safe, they will need to wait their turn.

In just 4 days, my SIL hastily packed up their whole apartment (my DD had already come home), made arrangements for their two cats to be housed with a loving family, made arrangements to work remotely, grabbed the last non-charter flight out of NZ, and spent 28 hours flying and waiting at various airports to make it back home over a usual 6 hour trip. I am glad that he made those huge efforts.

 

[Clair Louise]

How are they paying for food and housing if they can't work? Am I reading this right?

They had jobs (assistant English teacher) and they should have foreseen that their jobs would go. Citizens of the countries they are in were losing jobs, why did they think that they wouldn't or that the government would allow them back in after they ignored the advice to go home.