Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #82

[dixiegirl1035]

The positives on the test are not unreliable, and that alone might have made the FDA approve it. FDA did warn that negatives should not be trusted and if the person became symptomatic to test again or use a better test.

They can't be used for screening in the manner that many organizations (not just the WH) are using them. It says right in the product literature that a negative on the test is about 50% inaccurate (like flipping a coin). As we all know, the FDA has been in the midst of a political storm and very much buffeted by it.

The thing that's odd about this test is that apparently the FDA is allowing home consumers to buy it too - anyone can buy it? I think that's true. It's about $40 a test for home consumers and now I'm seeing and hearing people here in SoCal use them in an equally improper way (to screen before a baby shower, so that the pregnant mom isn't infected, etc.) It's really odd, because the FDA is usually more slow/circumspect in allowing OTC lab tests. We can't, for example, easily get an OTC test for cholesterol or Vitamin D levels.

But we can get CoVid tests.

The positives on this test are 95-96% reliable, which is perfect for front line epidemiology, as long as people do not rely on it for their health. The negatives in the asymptomatic, again, are only 50% reliable which is why the FDA said that a negative should not be used as actual "proof" that a person doesn't have CoVid. Once symptomatic, the test effectiveness goes up. I'd love to know if the president got a positive on one right before he had his other test (I bet Hope tested positive on one of them...leading to further testing, but that's just a guess).

Never ever heard or seen that consumers are buying the Abbott's test.

Perhaps confusion with another?

If you throw up a link on such we all here can evaluate and give feedback as I've never heard of such as test... any test that will be allowed for consumers at this time.

Are you talking about the Dr. Henson and others type of tests?

Again, which are you speaking of?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

RSBM. This is what the Abbott ID NOW tests are approved for by the FDA:

Authorized Product Details

Your product is for the qualitative detection of nucleic acid from the SARS-CoV-2 viral RNA in direct nasal, nasopharyngeal or throat swabs from individuals who are suspected of COVID-19 by their healthcare provider within the first seven days of the onset of symptoms. The SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid is generally detectable in respiratory specimens during the acute phase of infection. Positive results are indicative of the presence of SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid; clinical correlation with patient history and other diagnostic information is necessary to determine patient infection status. Positive results do not rule out bacterial infection or co-infection with other viruses. Negative results should be treated as presumptive and, if inconsistent with clinical signs and symptoms or necessary for patient management, should be tested with different authorized or cleared molecular tests.

https://www.fda.gov/media/136522/download​

I don't see how the testing at the Rose Garden is covered by this. It's the wrong type of test for the purposes of removing social distancing (I'm not sure if the right test exists for that).

It perhaps is a quagmire MOO that they have received in ADVANCE monies to develop such tests..

sitting on hands... as I think I've given enough info for critical thinkers here to catch on without again and again and again and again stating my opinion.

 

[Satchie]

Twitter deleted that tweet as misleading and potentially harmful misinformation.

Also his facebook post because he inflated the number of flu deaths
Trump COVID-19 updates: Facebook removes Trump post inflating flu deaths

 

[10ofRods]

All of this will probably take time to shake out, but it's interesting that two of the names (Juan Soto and Freddie Freeman) to test positive around the start of the season were the top two offensive players in the baseball this year.

MLB Wins Above Replacement - WAR - Major League Baseball - ESPN

If they are at the top of their game, wouldn't that mean lots and lots of social opportunities? It doesn't surprise me at all that people who are still going to social gatherings are getting CoVid. As we head into autumn and winter, that's exactly what is predicted.

Ventilation systems will be the culprit. A/C is of course a problem - but when it's warmer, the air in the locale is more humid. When it's humid, the aerosols of CoVid tend to hit water molecules, join them, and head to the floor (floors in hospitals are rife with CoVid virions - although getting from your shoes to your lungs is quite a feat - please don't sniff your shoes!)

When winter comes, it's colder, and the air gets drier. So CoVid floats in the air longer.

Here are my ventilation links (posted on my blog, I have Tricia's okay to use the link here - it's not monetized).

Notes from the field

 

[Satchie]

I think Trump has forgotten a very important detail:

Proclamation on Declaring a National Emergency Concerning the Novel Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) Outbreak | The White House

IMO, if he's really serious, he should get off social media and retract his own declaration.

 

[MsArk]

Twitter deleted that tweet as misleading and potentially harmful misinformation.

Thank you, Twitter!

 

[10ofRods]

So lets say President Trump orders a military doctor to give him more dexamethasone and the doctor fearing being insubordinate gives him the drug. If the President suffers harm or dies would the doctor be charged will medical malpractice and or murder?

It would be medical malpractice. I worked in medical malpractice (as a consultant) for many years. Where I live, lawsuits against military hospitals and clinics were overly represented in our case load. Since I started my own career in medical anthropology by working in 4 different federal facilities, I was used to federal paperwork and that helped in looking over the records. As others here know (also having worked in federal medical settings), it can be byzantine and things...get lost.

The case I remember best is one in which the plaintiff's records ended up outside of North America, although the plaintiff himself had never been stationed outside of North America nor treated in the facility where the records were eventually found (3 years into the lawsuit). The plaintiff had a very unusual name, if he had not, we might never have found those records. It was an unfortunate case involving brain surgery.

The limits on federal pay-outs are tighter, I believe, than they were when I was doing this kind of work. But if the doctor could show that he was ordered by a superior to do something, he likely would not be personally liable (the hospital itself might - or the superior).

It would not be murder unless dexamethasone were known to be poisonous and used at a lethal dose - which of course, should not be the case with our president. OTOH, since it's an immune suppressant, I suppose he could sue his own government if his CoVid worsens or he is reinfected and he thinks it's due to that. That whole scenario is really unlikely to me. I am assuming his doctors are employees of Walter Reed and not independent contractors, but of course, I don't know that for sure.

 

[BUF]

Why oppose this? Isn’t Pence supposed to head the task force? Unbelievable...

Pence and Harris to be separated by plexiglass barrier at vice presidential debate

The request was made by the Biden-Harris campaign and approved by the CPD, CBS News confirmed. Politico first reported the debate's use of plexiglass. The Trump-Pence campaign opposed the barrier, which would provide additional protection from COVID-19 infection.

 

[BUF]

Senior Pentagon leadership self-isolating after exposure to coronavirus - CNNPolitics

Story is breaking & will be updated

 

[JerseyGirl]

Per CNN: senior leadership in the pentagon quarantining after being exposed

Senior Pentagon leadership self-isolating after exposure to coronavirus

The top US general, Gen. Mark Milley, and several members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff are quarantining after a top Coast Guard official tested positive for coronavirus.

"On Monday, the Vice Commandant of the US Coast Guard, Admiral Charles Ray, tested positive for COVID-19. He was tested the same day, after feeling mild symptoms over the weekend," the Coast Guard said in a statement Tuesday.

Ray recently attended several meetings at the Pentagon in secure areas with members of the Joint Chiefs. Senior Pentagon officials who had been in proximity to Ray have been tested and are awaiting results.

As a precaution, Milley is working from home. As Trump's top military adviser, he maintains a full classified communications suite in his house.

The Chief of Staff of the US Air Force, Charles Brown, the Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Michael Gilday and the Chief of Space Operations, Gen. John Raymond, also are all working from home.

 

[ilovewings]

Coronavirus Disease 2019 vs. the Flu

Coronavirus Disease 2019 v. the flu

Significant findings re: Coronavirus v flu deaths

There have been approximately 1,044,882 deaths reported worldwide: In the United States 210,196 deaths between January 2020 and October 6, 2020.

The World Health Organization estimates 290,000 to 650,000 deaths every year worldwide of flu related causes.

You (generic you) can clearly see that Covid is much more lethal than the flu- and the year isn't over yet so we know there will be many many more deaths related to Covid.

 

[sds71]

Never ever heard or seen that consumers are buying the Abbott's test.

Perhaps confusion with another?

If you throw up a link on such we all here can evaluate and give feedback as I've never heard of such as test... any test that will be allowed for consumers at this time.

Are you talking about the Dr. Henson and others type of tests?

Again, which are you speaking of?

i received an email from quest last week about an at home clovid-19 test
it's $129+

Questdirect

 

[MsArk]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Wasn’t minuscule for this 46 yr old personal trainer.

46-year-old personal trainer from N.C. – formerly of Danville, Va. – died Sunday of COVID-19

 

[JerseyGirl]

i received an email from quest last week about an at home clovid-19 test
it's $129+

Questdirect

We have them available here in 2 counties in New Jersey:

County officials announced Monday county residents, as well as those who have a critical or essential job in Burlington County, can register online and have a free COVID-19 test kit sent to their home.

Each kit comes with instructions on how to collect a saliva sample and return it to the Rutgers lab.

Those who use the at-home test kits can expect results within 72 hours. The county will be notified of any positive tests so contract tracing can begin.

Burlington County now offers at-home COVID-19 testing

To learn more about how to take an at-home test, or to register, visit Coronavirus (COVID-19) Survey & Scheduler.

 

[10ofRods]

Never ever heard or seen that consumers are buying the Abbott's test.

Perhaps confusion with another?

If you throw up a link on such we all here can evaluate and give feedback as I've never heard of such as test... any test that will be allowed for consumers at this time.

Are you talking about the Dr. Henson and others type of tests?

Again, which are you speaking of?

I don't know of anyone with FDA approval for a rapid test or an EUA for distributing it, other than Abbott - do you?

Here's the press info:

Abbott lands EUA for $5 rapid COVID-19 test

(Actually - there may be one other company). But all the tests operate on the same principles and all of the rapid tests have the same provisos, so if not Abbott then perhaps a company named BioResponse, who said it intended to sell rapid test kits in March, but AFAIK, they have not gotten them to market. I'm certainly not an expert in the marketing of test kits.

But I do know that the Abbott patent has resulted in the sale of rapid tests to many consumers. It's the only company I can find that is marketing such a test:

Taking COVID-19 Testing to a New Level | Abbott U.S.

Abbott's Fast, $5, 15-Minute, Easy-to-Use COVID-19 Antigen Test Receives FDA Emergency Use Authorization; Mobile App Displays Test Results to Help Our Return to Daily Life; Ramping Production to 50 Million Tests a Month

(This is the test the people I know used; $60 a pop said the party organizers).

The baby showers I mentioned had 10 or fewer people at them - the hostess paid the money and found someone to assist in getting the tests. BTW, the market (IMO) avoids mentioning the technical difficulties that I linked to yesterday. Some of Abbott's claims are, to me, extraordinary and should be reined in (but that's not how the FDA is rolling right now).

Here again are the links regarding the limitations:

Rapid Testing

Fast coronavirus tests: what they can and can’t do

Coronavirus antigen tests: quick and cheap, but too often wrong?

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Informs Public About Possible Accuracy Concerns with Abbott ID NOW Point-of-Care Test

(I have more: I'm not 10ofRods for no reason, ha).

This comes as an announcement is made that our Joint Chiefs of Staff are entering quarantine. Must have made Putin's day...

 

[BUF]

Wasn’t minuscule for this 46 yr old personal trainer.

46-year-old personal trainer from N.C. – formerly of Danville, Va. – died Sunday of COVID-19

I cried when I read this.
All of the stories like this are just heartbreaking.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

i received an email from quest last week about an at home clovid-19 test
it's $129+

Questdirect

Gotcha, thanks.

To my critical thinking, and perhaps others? that is NOT an at home test MOO. That is sent in to a lab. Thanks for verifying it is not an at home COVID test MOO

From your link
"allows you to collect your sample to be tested at our laboratory."

Were you led to believe it was an "at home test" due to the headline of the email link without reading? Or did you deduce and post here that you thought that it was an at home TEST after you read the link which states clearly " "allows you to collect your sample to be tested at our laboratory."?

I'm so very very intrigued how so many interpret information differently is why I ask.

RBBM

 

[Sillybilly]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Wasn’t minuscule for this 46 yr old personal trainer.

46-year-old personal trainer from N.C. – formerly of Danville, Va. – died Sunday of COVID-19

Or 41 year old Nick Cordero who went through absolute hell before dying from this dreaded virus.

Canadian actor Nick Cordero, 41, dies after months-long battle with COVID-19 complications

 

[10ofRods]

Is 5 minutes outdoors a big enough viral load to catch Covid?

Even if you wear a mask, what about the eyes?

Risk of Coronavirus Transmission is Lower Outdoors, Experts Say

Anything is possible - but I'd say 5 minutes is a very short time. I keep reading, especially in hospital literature), that 6 minutes of indoor contact with one's face near a talker (face to face) is enough to get it. At 6 feet away, it takes something like 15-50 minutes? Something like that - there are posters in some hospitals that others have linked to.

If the air is very still and dry, I suppose outdoor contact for 5 minutes could transmit it (dry eyes would be a factor?) I don't think anyone has ever documented such a thing.

I keep reading that the outdoor risk is about 5% that of the indoor risk. Which is why I feel certain that the Rose Garden participants did not get it in the Rose Garden - but after they adjourned, they went to two of the White House's smaller gathering rooms (looks like about 2500-3500 sf each in the pictures - I'm sure someone can find blueprints of the White House and figure it out). In the pictures of those gatherings, I see people who started out socially distancing; I see the VIP's in their own room with Trump. By "socially distancing" I mean they were staying about 3-4 feet apart. Then, as the event went on, they aren't so socially distanced (so we have video of Kelly either kissing Barr on the cheek or whispering in his ear, hard to say which, after some close talking and in the other videos, you can see people doing a lot of close talking and some hugging).

I don't see any masks in the indoor setting - but again, I don't have time to review all the footage - would be interesting to do so.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

There's been quite a bit written about this by doctors on doctors' forums (such as alumni forums of university hospitals but also as comments on conference papers and pre-prints).

The consensus is that dexamethasone can significantly improve mood - but it is an immunosuppressant and therefore, it would be bad medicine to put him on it indefinitely. However, many of them also mention that he can just order Walter Reed doctors to give it to him, or find other ways of getting it - that many doctors would have a hard time saying no under the circumstances. One doctor at a military hospital said that it could be considered insubordination.

Homeopaths are trained to be less medicine-oriented and more free with their prescriptions, more "holistic" (the patient's mental state is very important to them - they want calm and happy patients; I know several who prescribe methadone in somewhat off-schedule ways).

His statement was still odd. I have several doctor friends, a bunch of them are in psychiatry or neurology (because that's where I did most of my research when I was active), and they all just said, "Yep, that's the dex talking."

The two who corresponded with me the most over the past 24 hours truly believe he won't get more of it, now that he's out of hospital, as it could definitely interfere with his body's attempt to form a proper response to the regeneron in particular. But they're not at military hospitals.

Wow, thanks so so much....... hearing what other doctors are saying is just so valuable....