Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #82

[Sundog]

That is what has angered me the most about this situation. People who have "elite" status, the "1%", or whatever we call them. They have been given royal treatment. Everyone else, was told to go home, take some flu medication.

I wonder if these two teachers would be alive if they had been given access to the same level of care.

Funeral held for South Carolina teachers who died of COVID | wltx.com

I don't know any country in the world where this isn't the case.

 

[10ofRods]

I think his statement that the virus is "far less lethal" in "most populations" is statistically correct, including pregnant women and young children, according to the CDC that lists them as high risk groups.

Covid has a minuscule effect on people under 50 and those who are in good shape. The flu is very dangerous for little ones.

I wouldn't say that that the sublethal effects of CoVid are "miniscule." GGO's, damage to the lining of the lungs and heart, and most especially, kidney damage, are "miniscule."

I'll put together yet another post on the non-lethal, but lasting and life-changing effects of CoVid later today (there's new research, but I've posted most of it before). Those athletes who are getting it may never return to top form. Having had blood clots in my own lungs (a drug reaction that occurs to 1 in 100,000 people who take the drug prescribed me by my doctor), I went from 98-99% blood oxygen saturation while resting to 95-96% (and I didn't have micro-clots, which may do more damage). It's a small difference, but puts me more at risk (obviously) for any further lung disease/issues. And while I was never an athlete, it's clear that jogging/slow running will be my upper limit.

Oddly, it really affected my ability to play saxophone - I have switched from tenor to alto. My trumpet playing days are over (which is not a sad thing - I think the world is probably grateful).

But...let's not downplay the experiences of people right here on WS and all around the world who are still struggling to recover. It seems to be different to the flu in that regard. However, I do agree that we are very lucky that the vast majority of children under 12 seem unaffected.

Being in "good shape" (do you mean not overweight or obese?) doesn't seem to protect against the lung issues, which is why CoVid is such a problem in universities and colleges (including among the younger people). Again, having GGO's or damage to the lungs is very likely to have longterm effects. When we do have a major flu outbreak (which is likely inevitable within the lifetime of our current 20-somethings), they will be at higher risk and lung issues are cumulative.

This younger generation may well be more at risk for COPD later on - as GGO's are associated with that.

 

[Sundog]

Well, first, he ran around in various places without a mask and got CoVid.

I don't think most East Coast American psychiatrists would put the president on a hold for that.

But in some parts of the West Coast, a homeless person who did the same (even if they had a nice tent to sleep in) would be considered a danger to self.

Obviously, Trump approved of social events that endangered others. But again - American psychiatrists don't usually pull the trigger just because someone lights off illegal fireworks every year (even if eventually their neighbor dies in a fire).



I posted several. I posted the CDC and other links about how only positive results on that test are reliable. Negatives need to be followed up with a PCR test. Then I posted another link from MSM that explained it in plain English.

Positive results are also not reliable. Governor of Ohio had to have a PCR test after his rapid test when President Trump visited. His rapid test was a false positive. His PCR test that followed was negative, twice during the days/week following.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I read the article you linked and it doesn't say anything about their care being deficient.

MOO You are stating incorrectly MOO that the OP said "care being deficient" as a quote

@mickey2942 said

"I wonder if these two teachers would be alive if they had been given access to the same level of care."

Which MOO, I believe that anyone in the world would agree with no one has had Trump's care.

OP @mickey2942 perhaps can confirm as to meaning

That is what has angered me the most about this situation. People who have "elite" status, the "1%", or whatever we call them. They have been given royal treatment. Everyone else, was told to go home, take some flu medication.

I wonder if these two teachers would be alive if they had been given access to the same level of care.

Funeral held for South Carolina teachers who died of COVID | wltx.com

 

[tresir2012]

Well, first, he ran around in various places without a mask and got CoVid.

I don't think most East Coast American psychiatrists would put the president on a hold for that.

But in some parts of the West Coast, a homeless person who did the same (even if they had a nice tent to sleep in) would be considered a danger to self.

Obviously, Trump approved of social events that endangered others. But again - American psychiatrists don't usually pull the trigger just because someone lights off illegal fireworks every year (even if eventually their neighbor dies in a fire).



I posted several. I posted the CDC and other links about how only positive results on that test are reliable. Negatives need to be followed up with a PCR test. Then I posted another link from MSM that explained it in plain English.

Running around in various places is what POTUS has to do.

I explained my reason for asking for links in my response to dixiegirl. I have also found and posted my own links now, including a study, plus details of a new Abbot test and some other info. Sorry if I missed your links. Also some MSM don't load for me or requires subscription so often unless excerpts are copy and pasted, I am not able to read them. If these tests are so unreliable, why are they FDA EUA ?

If the WH are using FDA EUA tests then I do not see what they have done wrong TBH.

Also, as CDC have changed their message on some subjects, I am not inclined to just go by their output.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

MOO

@mickey2942 said

"I wonder if these two teachers would be alive if they had been given access to the same level of care."

Which MOO, I believe that anyone in the world would agree with no one has had Trump's care.

OP @mickey2942 perhaps can confirm as to meaning

I have no idea what kind of care those teachers got and if it was the reason for their deaths. JMO

 

[mickey2942]

MOO You are stating incorrectly MOO that the OP said "care being deficient" as a quote

@mickey2942 said

"I wonder if these two teachers would be alive if they had been given access to the same level of care."

Which MOO, I believe that anyone in the world would agree with no one has had Trump's care.

OP @mickey2942 perhaps can confirm as to meaning

My issue is that the President recieved optimal care, from the moment he was diagnosed with Covid. And he is now minimizing Covid.
Live updates: Trump continues to downplay virus after returning to White House

His experience with Covid, cannot be compared with the rest of the population who gets Covid.
My concern is that people will be marginalized for calling in sick, and treated like malingerers, when they are dealing with legitimate physical issues after surviving Covid.

The President appears to be minimizing Covid to me. It insults so many people who were turned away from hospitals after a diagnosis. And came back, when they were too far gone for treatment to be helpful.

 

[squareandrabbet]

Positive results are also not reliable. Governor of Ohio had to have a PCR test after his rapid test when President Trump visited. His rapid test was a false positive. His PCR test that followed was negative, twice during the days/week following.

Which was the test that put the cold, fickle finger of COVID infection upon the goat and the pawpaw fruit in Africa? Do we know/remember? Are we just assuming that this particular test has been wiped from the horizon, and/or corrected to be effective?

 

[10ofRods]

@10ofRods, you provide solid medical information/explanation often...so can you attempt to answer the following??? moo moo

Obviously he can do and demand anything he wants.
So.... what if he WANTS more of the Dexamethasone since it likely contributed to his "feeling better than the last 20 years". (Why WOULD anyone even say that btw?)
So, anyway, what if he does want more---will they deny it, or will they just give in as they seem to be doing anyway.

There's been quite a bit written about this by doctors on doctors' forums (such as alumni forums of university hospitals but also as comments on conference papers and pre-prints).

The consensus is that dexamethasone can significantly improve mood - but it is an immunosuppressant and therefore, it would be bad medicine to put him on it indefinitely. However, many of them also mention that he can just order Walter Reed doctors to give it to him, or find other ways of getting it - that many doctors would have a hard time saying no under the circumstances. One doctor at a military hospital said that it could be considered insubordination.

Homeopaths are trained to be less medicine-oriented and more free with their prescriptions, more "holistic" (the patient's mental state is very important to them - they want calm and happy patients; I know several who prescribe methadone in somewhat off-schedule ways).

His statement was still odd. I have several doctor friends, a bunch of them are in psychiatry or neurology (because that's where I did most of my research when I was active), and they all just said, "Yep, that's the dex talking."

The two who corresponded with me the most over the past 24 hours truly believe he won't get more of it, now that he's out of hospital, as it could definitely interfere with his body's attempt to form a proper response to the regeneron in particular. But they're not at military hospitals.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It's about time Twitter is now doing something about this.

Twitter accused of double standards over ban on tweets wishing death on Trump

Thank God! The double standards are maddening. They must think individuals are too dumb to see it for themselves, and how long it's been allowed to continue ad nauseam.

It makes me so appreciative of WS. I don't participate in any other SM site for that very reason.

Anyone who makes death threats against anyone should be banned for life.

Its become so common on most SM sites, and none have done anything about it. I've even reported it on FB when I use to be on there yet it was allowed to remain.

They should also be charged for making the death threats too no matter who it is said against.

Jmho

 

[dixiegirl1035]

BBM:

" isn't everyone immune for at least several months after they've had COVID? "

This is absolutely not known! Too early to know yet. Eventually, we will have many more answers.

Coronavirus Disease 2019

On August 3, 2020, CDC updated its isolation guidance based on the latest science about COVID-19 showing that people can continue to test positive for up to 3 months after diagnosis and not be infectious to others. Contrary to media reporting today, this science does not imply a person is immune to reinfection with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, in the 3 months following infection. The latest data simply suggests that retesting someone in the 3 months following initial infection is not necessary unless that person is exhibiting the symptoms of COVID-19 and the symptoms cannot be associated with another illness.

more at link from CDC re August 3 CDC isolation guidance.

 

[10ofRods]

Running around in various places is what POTUS has to do.

I explained my reason for asking for links in my response to dixiegirl. I have also found and posted my own links now, including a study, plus details of a new Abbot test and some other info. Sorry if I missed your links. Also some MSM don't load for me or requires subscription so often unless excerpts are copy and pasted, I am not able to read them. If these tests are so unreliable, why are they FDA EUA ?

If the WH are using FDA EUA tests then I do not see what they have done wrong TBH.

Also, as CDC have changed their message on some subjects, I am not inclined to just go by their output.

The positives on the test are not unreliable, and that alone might have made the FDA approve it. FDA did warn that negatives should not be trusted and if the person became symptomatic to test again or use a better test.

They can't be used for screening in the manner that many organizations (not just the WH) are using them. It says right in the product literature that a negative on the test is about 50% inaccurate (like flipping a coin). As we all know, the FDA has been in the midst of a political storm and very much buffeted by it.

The thing that's odd about this test is that apparently the FDA is allowing home consumers to buy it too - anyone can buy it? I think that's true. It's about $40 a test for home consumers and now I'm seeing and hearing people here in SoCal use them in an equally improper way (to screen before a baby shower, so that the pregnant mom isn't infected, etc.) It's really odd, because the FDA is usually more slow/circumspect in allowing OTC lab tests. We can't, for example, easily get an OTC test for cholesterol or Vitamin D levels.

But we can get CoVid tests.

The positives on this test are 95-96% reliable, which is perfect for front line epidemiology, as long as people do not rely on it for their health. The negatives in the asymptomatic, again, are only 50% reliable which is why the FDA said that a negative should not be used as actual "proof" that a person doesn't have CoVid. Once symptomatic, the test effectiveness goes up. I'd love to know if the president got a positive on one right before he had his other test (I bet Hope tested positive on one of them...leading to further testing, but that's just a guess).

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Running around in various places is what POTUS has to do.

I explained my reason for asking for links in my response to dixiegirl. I have also found and posted my own links now, including a study, plus details of a new Abbot test and some other info. Sorry if I missed your links. Also some MSM don't load for me or requires subscription so often unless excerpts are copy and pasted, I am not able to read them. If these tests are so unreliable, why are they FDA EUA ?

If the WH are using FDA EUA tests then I do not see what they have done wrong TBH.

Also, as CDC have changed their message on some subjects, I am not inclined to just go by their output.

I quoted outside of the link for you not only CDC, but the company itself, AND FDA.

<modsnip>

 

[Legally Bland]

If the WH are using FDA EUA tests then I do not see what they have done wrong TBH.

RSBM. This is what the Abbott ID NOW tests are approved for by the FDA:

Authorized Product Details

Your product is for the qualitative detection of nucleic acid from the SARS-CoV-2 viral RNA in direct nasal, nasopharyngeal or throat swabs from individuals who are suspected of COVID-19 by their healthcare provider within the first seven days of the onset of symptoms. The SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid is generally detectable in respiratory specimens during the acute phase of infection. Positive results are indicative of the presence of SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid; clinical correlation with patient history and other diagnostic information is necessary to determine patient infection status. Positive results do not rule out bacterial infection or co-infection with other viruses. Negative results should be treated as presumptive and, if inconsistent with clinical signs and symptoms or necessary for patient management, should be tested with different authorized or cleared molecular tests.

https://www.fda.gov/media/136522/download​

I don't see how the testing at the Rose Garden is covered by this. It's the wrong type of test for the purposes of removing social distancing (I'm not sure if the right test exists for that).

 

[Deleted member 39678]

There's been quite a bit written about this by doctors on doctors' forums (such as alumni forums of university hospitals but also as comments on conference papers and pre-prints).

The consensus is that dexamethasone can significantly improve mood - but it is an immunosuppressant and therefore, it would be bad medicine to put him on it indefinitely. However, many of them also mention that he can just order Walter Reed doctors to give it to him, or find other ways of getting it - that many doctors would have a hard time saying no under the circumstances. One doctor at a military hospital said that it could be considered insubordination.

Homeopaths are trained to be less medicine-oriented and more free with their prescriptions, more "holistic" (the patient's mental state is very important to them - they want calm and happy patients; I know several who prescribe methadone in somewhat off-schedule ways).

His statement was still odd. I have several doctor friends, a bunch of them are in psychiatry or neurology (because that's where I did most of my research when I was active), and they all just said, "Yep, that's the dex talking."

The two who corresponded with me the most over the past 24 hours truly believe he won't get more of it, now that he's out of hospital, as it could definitely interfere with his body's attempt to form a proper response to the regeneron in particular. But they're not at military hospitals.

So lets say President Trump orders a military doctor to give him more dexamethasone and the doctor fearing being insubordinate gives him the drug. If the President suffers harm or dies would the doctor be charged will medical malpractice and or murder?

 

[CharlestonGal]

Trump again downplays virus that left him hospitalized, compares COVID-19 to flu

A day after returning from the hospital amid a severe case of the coronavirus, President Donald Trump encouraged Americans to learn to live with COVID-19 in a Tuesday morning tweet.

"Flu season is coming up! Many people every year, sometimes over 100,000, and despite the Vaccine, die from the Flu. Are we going to close down our Country? No, we have learned to live with it, just like we are learning to live with Covid, in most populations far less lethal!!!" Trump tweeted.

The CDC estimates that between 12,000 and 61,000 people have died of the flu in the U.S. each year dating back to 2010, though an estimated 100,000 people died of the flu in 1968.

Trump again downplays virus that left him hospitalized, compares COVID-19 to flu

Twitter deleted that tweet as misleading and potentially harmful misinformation.

 

[ilovewings]

GOP Sen. Ron Johnson Went to Oktoberfest Party While Awaiting COVID-19 Test Results

U.S. Sen. Ron Johnson attended an Oktoberfest fundraising dinner on Friday evening while he was awaiting the test results that would show he was infected with COVID-19.

The Wisconsin Republican chose to attend the bash even though he knew that President Trump and many of his inner circle had tested positive for the coronavirus.

Johnson, who didn’t reveal his diagnosis until Saturday, justified his behavior in comments by saying he only took his mask off when it was time to address the crowd. He also insisted that he was “at least 12 feet from anybody” during his speech at the event. It was held at the River Club of Mequon, a self-described “casually elegant private club committed to personal service.”

Johnson has previously come out against statewide mask mandates, and warned against “overreacting.” We “don’t shut down our economy because tens of thousands of people die on the highways,” he said in March.

Is there no end to the recklessness by these politicians-- unbelievable

 

[MrX]

I wouldn't say that that the sublethal effects of CoVid are "miniscule." GGO's, damage to the lining of the lungs and heart, and most especially, kidney damage, are "miniscule."

Those athletes who are getting it may never return to top form.

All of this will probably take time to shake out, but it's interesting that two of the names (Juan Soto and Freddie Freeman) to test positive around the start of the season were the top two offensive players in the baseball this year.

MLB Wins Above Replacement - WAR - Major League Baseball - ESPN

 

[10ofRods]

Anyway - if the WH continues to rely on negatives on those tests, they might as well just flip a coin.

But if one of them has what appears to be a cold or flu, then the test should work (but the rest of us just know to self-isolated, I hope, I hope). The PCR test will be required anyway for most of us should we choose to go to a clinic or the ER.

Testing wait times for the PCR test are about 24 hours in many places right now (but not in the places where cases are shooting up - it takes a while to ramp up capacity). Technically, it's possible to get the results in 2 hours (you can watch Spencer Wells do the basic work required to put the sample through the PCR sequencer near the middle of his documentary The Journey of Man), you can easily see that there are several steps and each one takes time. The last step (where he has to individually scan results) is not needed with CoVid.

Stay safe everyone - I think that while we are focused on the WH for obvious reasons, it's still true that only about 90-91% of humans have gotten CoVid, and it will be circulating until...it's not.

BTW, those of you hesitating about vaccines...well, that regeneron stuff is basically like some of the vaccines.

If they were confident enough to give it to the president, I don't think we should be afraid of it (monoclonal antibody vaccines). It could be called a "miracle drug" but the scientific recipe is simple and I really do believe it's a permanent breakthrough in how we do vaccines - so by end of 2021, I hope everyone has gotten the equivalent.

 

[musicaljoke]

Family members, international students, and for compassionate reasons -- more information to be provided later this week -

Canada plans to change border restrictions this week; travelers will need pre-approval | wgrz.com

Edited to add - This article has expanded list of family members soon to be permitted to enter Canada -

Siblings, grandparents to be let in to Canada amid COVID-19

This is good, I think, especially that families can be reunited. But, what the article doesn't mention, is that there are strong penalties for failing to isolate.

From the link below:
Failure to comply with this Order is an offense under the Quarantine Act. Maximum penalties include a fine of up to $750,000 and/or imprisonment for six months.

Further, a person who causes a risk of imminent death or serious bodily harm to another person while wilfully or recklessly contravening this Act or the regulations could be liable for a fine of up to $1,000,000 or to imprisonment of up to three years, or to both. Spot checks will be conducted by the Government of Canada to verify compliance.

New Order Makes Self-Isolation Mandatory for Individuals Entering Canada - Canada.ca