Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #84

[mickey2942]

14-minute shuffle: Billings schools retreat from controversial policy after criticism from health experts

This would be hilarious, if people didn't actually think that this was a "solution". The lack of knowledge about Covid-19 and transmission is scary, given how long we have been dealing with this.

The school district thought if they made kids move around exactly every 14 minutes, they wouldn't have to report any contacts for contact tracing if they got Covid, because, of course they would only be around someone for 14 minutes, not 15 minutes!

Doh! Homer Simpson logic, and these are people running a school district.

 

[10ofRods]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/10/21/coronavirus-close-contact-cdc/

Okay, I have to say I am getting weary of all this "new " info about this virus. Now it is just brief contact with people can cause the virus. It was thought you needed a certain period of time, like 15 min to contract the virus. Now it could be a minute here or a minute there with someone who has it. Frankly, I am getting pizzed---- I think I will just hide under my bed.

Well, we've got about 30% of cases unexplained in the US. Higher in some places. People are getting CoVId and aren't sure how they got it.

I think it's happening mostly in workplaces and schools. All along, it's been clear that 15-60 minutes around an infected person is enough to get infected, if the other person has enough viral load (which is impossible to know at the time you encounter them).

It makes no difference if the virions come from 1 person or several people over the same period of time. Without a mask and at ordinary conversational distance, the advice is the same: 5-6 minutes max. If the person is panting, singing, singing, yelling...I wouldn't want to be within 6 feet of them, even masked (although with mask and goggles, maybe- but I can't think of a situation where I'd show up in that outfit).

If the minutes you spend with virus-spreaders add up to 15 minutes a day, yep, it doesn't really have to be continuous. Obviously, very few virions are spread by touching groceries and yet people get all involved in cleaning those. It's breathing live virions from another person that is the main problem - and they do accumulate in our nasal passages...a few at a time, all of them still alive, our immune system still pondering what to do...recipe for disaster.

Early on, I don't think most people thought too much about whether they'd encounter, say, 10 people a day with the virus, but with this recent flare-up, it's entirely possible to do so. Staying home as much as possible is a a very good idea. Science can't really study such effects...until they happen in the real world.

 

[LadyL]

My cousin’s reasons for her stance (also asks us to unfriendly her if we don’t agree) are basically conspiracy theories. I do worry about her mental health. I have other anti-mask family members, but they aren’t calling the rest of us cowards, we’re just each letting the other side do them (we of course don’t see each other IRL).

my husband's cousin just posted that she doesn't believe masks work
~sigh~

 

[ilovewings]

Unfortunately, the Governor’s attitude is to open up everything as if there’s no pandemic. He forbade counties from fining people who violated mask ordinances, and has steadily demanded, then required, the reopening of public venues and schools. As I understand it, our Governor is an advocate of “herd immunity” theory, with the idea being that if the virus spreads to much of the population, there will be enough immunity to stop the further spread. Those of us who are unwell or old are to simply stay indoors and isolate ourselves, as if this really works... He also “opened up” long term care facilities, and the disease is still running rampant through them. There are several thousand active cases in long term care facilities now. As of now some of the cases can still be tracked on the Florida DOH site: Home
As other posts have noted, the Governor is considering curtailing the release of daily cases. A former FL DOH employee, likely fired for her desire to provide accurate data, has an alternate website that may end up being the only public source of information - Florida Covid Community Action: Experience

In a state with so many retirees, the attitude simply stuns...

Let's call it what it is: he has no concern for the people that will die from his misbegotten theory. Their deaths mean nothing to him.

 

[JudgeJoe]

Got our flu shots today at Sam’s. No lines, no tiny room with other people’s possible aerosols floating about. Just a partially partitioned section of the giant warehouse. Quick, free, and comfortable. This is where we’ll go each year from now on!

 

[ilovewings]

Well, we've got about 30% of cases unexplained in the US. Higher in some places. People are getting CoVId and aren't sure how they got it.

I think it's happening mostly in workplaces and schools. All along, it's been clear that 15-60 minutes around an infected person is enough to get infected, if the other person has enough viral load (which is impossible to know at the time you encounter them).

It makes no difference if the virions come from 1 person or several people over the same period of time. Without a mask and at ordinary conversational distance, the advice is the same: 5-6 minutes max. If the person is panting, singing, singing, yelling...I wouldn't want to be within 6 feet of them, even masked (although with mask and goggles, maybe- but I can't think of a situation where I'd show up in that outfit).

If the minutes you spend with virus-spreaders add up to 15 minutes a day, yep, it doesn't really have to be continuous. Obviously, very few virions are spread by touching groceries and yet people get all involved in cleaning those. It's breathing live virions from another person that is the main problem - and they do accumulate in our nasal passages...a few at a time, all of them still alive, our immune system still pondering what to do...recipe for disaster.

Early on, I don't think most people thought too much about whether they'd encounter, say, 10 people a day with the virus, but with this recent flare-up, it's entirely possible to do so. Staying home as much as possible is a a very good idea. Science can't really study such effects...until they happen in the real world.

I finally stopped washing my groceries!!!! that was a good day---

 

[LadyL]

I finally stopped washing my groceries!!!! that was a good day---

that's one habit I think I'm going to continue doing after the pandemic
the thought of what could be on my groceries is bleck ~shudder~

 

[mickey2942]

my husband's cousin just posted that she doesn't believe masks work
~sigh~

Condoms don't work either, when you don't use them.

 

[10ofRods]

What exponential looks like:

North Dakota

South Dakota

Montana

Idaho

Illinois

Wisconsin

Wyoming

I'm sure there are more places and states, but these graphs illustrate what happens after CV takes hold in a place without many mitigation measures in place/lack of compliance. We can compare to Arizona or Florida - where, despite high rates, mitigation measures brought things under control/downward.

The initial surge can just keep going - or measures can be taken to bring it down again. Once it's down again, if the measures go away entirely, it goes back up - or shoots back up.

 

[oviedo]

Let's call it what it is: he has no concern for the people that will die from his misbegotten theory. Their deaths mean nothing to him.

Exactly and as long as this leadership attitude persists we are never going to be well in FL
- IMO

 

[10ofRods]

I finally stopped washing my groceries!!!! that was a good day---

Yeah, me too. I've always been of the camp of "a few bacteria and virions here and there help prime your immune system." I still believe it. CoVid just doesn't survive well enough in air for it to be a problem on my groceries/grocery bags unless one worker stood over my particular bag or item and panted for a while (initial load would probably take 15 minutes focused on just my item - because unless I took a swab and used water to swab the bag and then wiped the swab up my own nose...I'm really only going to get a tiny number of their virions).

I live with a somewhat germophobic person, so I go along with some of it (bags sit in the sun for at least 15 minutes). I guess I'll worry enough about frozen food that I will continue to wash my hands thorough after messing around in the freezer or refrigerator.

But the items themselves? Unless I snort them somehow or lick them, I think the risk is very low. People who get a few virions (despite wearing masks) seem to develop very mild cases, and may appear to have a type of immunity afterwards.

Licking would actually be pretty low risk - because it needs to get to the lungs...

 

[ilovewings]

Yeah, me too. I've always been of the camp of "a few bacteria and virions here and there help prime your immune system." I still believe it. CoVid just doesn't survive well enough in air for it to be a problem on my groceries/grocery bags unless one worker stood over my particular bag or item and panted for a while (initial load would probably take 15 minutes focused on just my item - because unless I took a swab and used water to swab the bag and then wiped the swab up my own nose...I'm really only going to get a tiny number of their virions).

I live with a somewhat germophobic person, so I go along with some of it (bags sit in the sun for at least 15 minutes). I guess I'll worry enough about frozen food that I will continue to wash my hands thorough after messing around in the freezer or refrigerator.

But the items themselves? Unless I snort them somehow or lick them, I think the risk is very low. People who get a few virions (despite wearing masks) seem to develop very mild cases, and may appear to have a type of immunity afterwards.

Licking would actually be pretty low risk - because it needs to get to the lungs...

The important thing is hand washing after you handle groceries

 

[303gmf]

Makes me think of this post on the Hippie Peace Freaks FB page
(Hope this is allowed)

View attachment 268616

Love that page!

 

[Sprockett7701]

To you and I perhaps ... but I think in the US pretty much everything revolves around a person's individual rights (in people's minds). It is not about collective rights.

I think that this 'individual right' is overstated when it is a matter of national public health. The national public health - the collective rights - should come first and foremost in a pandemic, because without a healthy nation everything else (economy, for one) will simply collapse over time.

Individual rights are very important for many, many things .. and have been fought long and hard for.

But people do not have the right to infect others with a deadly virus.
They do not have the right to take their deadly virus from state to state.
They do not have the right to inadvertently put people in hospital to fight for their life, and potentially die.
They do not have the right to inadvertently make people homeless and businesses collapse.
All because they won't wear a little piece of fabric properly across their nose and mouth, or limit their movements.

All in my very frustrated opinion, of course.

To like this is not enough...maybe we’re looking through rose tinted glasses being from Aus but you and I have been here since the beginning and are long haulers on this thread, we keep up to date with the latest health info and what’s happening around the world...but I just feel, like you say, people are putting their individual rights above everybody else’s...have we really turned into such a selfish world? Horrifying.

So absolutely heartbreaking to see humans worldwide basically killing each other because of their perceived “rights”...

My kids have a UNICEF book about chn’s rights...maybe some adults need to read and absorb it...

So so frustrating...

 

[weepingangel]

Ha!
I’d be printing that all out for the workman’s comp claim before the CDC pulls it down

ETA: I guess this means that his workmans' compensation will cover his expenses then.

 

[OhioBlues]

Studies Point To Big Drop In COVID-19 Death Rates

 

[Yvettea]

Studies Point To Big Drop In COVID-19 Death Rates

From the article:

• mask-wearing may be helping by reducing the initial dose of virus a person receives, thereby lessening the overall severity of illness for many patients.

• keeping hospitals below their maximum capacity also helps to increase survival

• masking and social distancing will continue to play a big role in keeping the mortality rate down, especially as the U.S. and U.K. move into the fall and winter months.

 

[MimosaMornings]

Church holds two day "convocation" events,
with hundreds of attendees,
has 50 cases of covid traced back to those events,
including 5 at an assisted living home,
claims it was following recommendations,
church not interested in hosting covid testing.

BAH!! It defies explanation. How can a church be so completely unwilling to take responsibility for the welfare of the people?

Church's webpage may give some clues. United House of Prayer for All People - Atlanta

It gets worse......

2 dead from COVID-19, cases reach 68 from events tied to Charlotte church, county says — The Charlotte Observer

“A growing COVID-19 outbreak at a Charlotte church — the largest identified by Mecklenburg officials to date — has now left at least two people dead, Mecklenburg County officials said late Wednesday.

The caseload has grown significantly — jumping to 68 cases now — since county health officials first announced the outbreak late Saturday. That was nearly a week after the multi-day event that wrapped up Oct. 11 at the United House of Prayer for All People on Beatties Ford Road.

Mecklenburg County Public Health is trying to reach 94 close contacts reported by the 68 people with confirmed cases of COVID-19.

County officials also have notified other local health departments in North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, New Jersey and New York to monitor for cases connected to the church events”
————
At least 1,000 people attended events at the church from Oct. 4-11.

North Carolina
South Carolina
Georgia
New Jersey
New York

As COVID-19 cases rise, these states set rules for traveling to and from North Carolina


And back in March of this year.

Dozens of people gather at Charlotte church even after health director bans mass gatherings

 

[Bailey38]

I'm really not sure. I know that when the first surgeon learned that washing his hands before surgery decreased infections and deaths in patients, other surgeons would not believe him or change their ways (this was in the mid 19th century - it would be decades before the practice became widespread).

Even today, not all healthcare workers or food service workers wash their hands frequently. In fact, observational studies in public restrooms shows that 30-50% of people do not wash their hands after using the toilet. I've done such a study myself (at a college) and it was 50% non-washers during the break times that I was observing. Yikes.

Do people even know what a virus really is? My students learn about very small things (like RNA and DNA) and I think it helps reinforce their mask-wearing behavior, but the reason most of them say that they wear them every time they go outside their house is that they "don't want to kill a family member." So, it's compassion.

I don't think you can make someone else compassion. And some people really don't care about anyone or perhaps they don't live with anyone they care about.

I think that if we had general public education (you know, good old television like back in the days before netflix and youtube became the main things many people watch) and we could have frequently public announcements prior to flu season, we would have been in a position to alert everyone that this was not the flu, but something worse. With pictures and brief snippets of different aged people who have survived CoVid but don't feel so well...how it affects athletic performance...how the overweight and obese are more vulnerable...all of that...

it might have made a difference. But it would have to be like old style PSA's such that people could not avoid hearing the messages. The grocery store worker mentioned above who was ranting about having to wear a mask might have benefitted from the store having a couple of monitors with PSA's running constantly...right near his register. Maybe it does take policy to make people do things, in the end. It would be weird for people to publicly flaunt or denounce masks, though, if everyone was constantly inundated with information and the actual numbers in their area.

Also - do you all think it would have helped if each local area's numbers were made hard to miss? Front page of newspaper? On TV. In stores via monitors, etc? And if encouragement was given that...some day it will end? Because while vaccines are not perfect and may not prevent every case of CoVId, vaccines should certainly make CoVid much much less deadly in all but the very elderly (85+).

I am so surprised when I go around and read major papers in various states, that in many states (the ones with rapidly rising rates) there is virtually no front page news about that fact.

 

[Bailey38]

I'm really not sure. I know that when the first surgeon learned that washing his hands before surgery decreased infections and deaths in patients, other surgeons would not believe him or change their ways (this was in the mid 19th century - it would be decades before the practice became widespread).

Even today, not all healthcare workers or food service workers wash their hands frequently. In fact, observational studies in public restrooms shows that 30-50% of people do not wash their hands after using the toilet. I've done such a study myself (at a college) and it was 50% non-washers during the break times that I was observing. Yikes.

Do people even know what a virus really is? My students learn about very small things (like RNA and DNA) and I think it helps reinforce their mask-wearing behavior, but the reason most of them say that they wear them every time they go outside their house is that they "don't want to kill a family member." So, it's compassion.

I don't think you can make someone else compassion. And some people really don't care about anyone or perhaps they don't live with anyone they care about.

I think that if we had general public education (you know, good old television like back in the days before netflix and youtube became the main things many people watch) and we could have frequently public announcements prior to flu season, we would have been in a position to alert everyone that this was not the flu, but something worse. With pictures and brief snippets of different aged people who have survived CoVid but don't feel so well...how it affects athletic performance...how the overweight and obese are more vulnerable...all of that...

it might have made a difference. But it would have to be like old style PSA's such that people could not avoid hearing the messages. The grocery store worker mentioned above who was ranting about having to wear a mask might have benefitted from the store having a couple of monitors with PSA's running constantly...right near his register. Maybe it does take policy to make people do things, in the end. It would be weird for people to publicly flaunt or denounce masks, though, if everyone was constantly inundated with information and the actual numbers in their area.

Also - do you all think it would have helped if each local area's numbers were made hard to miss? Front page of newspaper? On TV. In stores via monitors, etc? And if encouragement was given that...some day it will end? Because while vaccines are not perfect and may not prevent every case of CoVId, vaccines should certainly make CoVid much much less deadly in all but the very elderly (85+).

I am so surprised when I go around and read major papers in various states, that in many states (the ones with rapidly rising rates) there is virtually no front page news about that fact.

I believe you are correct in the lack of knowledge about viruses, bacteria also. I was struck with a bone infection after ankle surgery and it was a very long process overcoming that, even to heal. Wound pump, pic line for antibiotics, skin graft, etc. I didn't fully understand but until I asked the Dr at cdc inside the hospital on the second visit. Couldn't understand why I had to go there for more blood work. She explained how the bacteria would try and change itself to survive and that is why the antibiotic's had to be done exactly 12 hours apart, no missing it. It's was fascinating to learn about.

It was also a time I started watching to see if people washed their hands in public restrooms. Over half did not and probably still don't. Not even going to get into urinating all over toilet seats and not cleaning up. People can be very nasty.