Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #84

[neesaki]

Okay, so before I head off for the night - I thought I'd ask you all a few questions.

Do you know people who are over 80 who are still going out without masks? Do they go to indoor events where people sing (like church) or where people might spend a couple of hours indoors (like clubs or Rotary or whatnot)?

I'm asking because nearly all of my older relatives are gone. My MiL is 82 (got CoVid in hospital, is home, doing "okay," but now quite frail; she had a fall and had to go to hospital). My good friend is 71, has no clue how she got it (maybe a pharmacy?) Says she has worn a mask every time she's gone out - she's fine too. Maybe a bit of brain fog and fatigue. My cousin, aged 70, worked in a place with refrigerated air - did not wear a mask, was very very sick and now has a persistent cough, weakness, fatigue, brain fog, some kind of shooting pain in his head.

I keep wondering if the word is getting out to the older people. These church stories really get to me - so preventable and I don't get why people are still doing church in person. Do we blame the pastors for opening up on Sundays? Are the elderly demanding/asking for these services? My mom stopped going to church after her last cancer surgery (she was 80), it was just too difficult for her. She was a germophobe and would always call ahead before family gatherings to ask if anyone had the sniffles or any signs of infection.

Are there people out there who just don't understand - or do they think they've lived long enough?

Do you foresee a time (like, when you're 90 or something) when you just will want to go out and do whatever you want to do?

I know someone who took her 83 y/o mother for a pedicure, no one was wearing masks. They were both completely aware because churches weren’t even holding services and the 83 y/o normally never misses a service. I don’t even know why the salon was open at that time! It’s in some very small town, so maybe they all thought they were immune. SMH

 

[GRT]

If you're right, then we're doomed to have CoVid in the US forever. The chances of all these people running into someone at the check-out stand (or in any other circumstance) where they have a brief conversation and their attitude changes are, IMO, very low. By now, surely almost everyone in North Dakota has heard of someone dying (their rates are brutal right now).


But it's my understanding that there's no statewide mask mandate and you can see how that's working out:


ND SMART RESTART Protocols


I think you're really discounting the fact that we need a term to describe people, like one of my cousins, who went all ballistic about mask requirements, calling people who wore them cowards, weak, stupid etc (in a FB post and in real life). She has a 94 year old grandmother. Her father just got out of the hospital after almost dying. She herself has been in the hospital 3X in the last 6 months (surgeries following a bad car accident). She is the single mother of a boy. She's supposedly training to be an EMT.


But she does not want to wear a mask and does so only when it suits her and her ideas. She is furious that she was made to wear a mask in some store and that she has to wear one at school (!) She absolutely believes that if she gets COVid (or her son does) that they will be fine. Her father survived it, after all (he's 70).


This, from a woman, who gets hysterical when her son has an asthma attack and she has forgotten to pick up his meds. I just don't get it. But she is totally in favor of CoVid just running its course (she says "like Sweden") and she is open about her disdain for those of us who do wear masks. Needless to say, her own brother (who is very high risk for various reasons) has to avoid her, as you can't talk to her about any of this without her getting very overwrought (the rest of us are calm enough, it's not like she's the only person we encounter who takes this view - she's just been super vocal about it).


She's anti-mask, she's going to vote based on her anti-mask ideas (it's her single most important issue right now, along with ending all mitigation measures) and she truly believes this is a Constitutional issue.


I will be very surprised if she makes it as an EMT, personally. I feel it's important to warn the rest of the family about her ideas, just in case they are thinking of hanging out with her - so what should I say? I’ve kind of let it go. Should I just ignore it and give her a hug when I see her? (I do love her). Should I not tell my own daughters that if she shows up (she's been known to just pop in to see us - a couple of states away), they need to be aware of her stance? There's a big difference between "just not wearing a mask all the time" (like this woman's dad) and being anti-mask (which she is).

Your cousin sounds like a handful, to be sure, and I hope she comes around and sees the light. But, I don't think we need a "label," per se, for people who behave and believe as she does because I think those labels only further alienate them and make it less likely they will follow good health suggestions.

I think we need an educational campaign that embraces kindness rather than judgementalism if we're going to convince more people to take their health seriously. Where are all the creative geniuses who create commercials like the Budweiser Superbowl commercials with horses and puppies? We need that kind of creative influence to win hearts and minds.

At the end of the day, we all want to reduce infections and deaths from Covid and I think we have to make a choice...we can be right (as in "correct" about the virus spread). Or, we can be effective by dropping the labels and winning people over with kindness.

JMOO

 

[GRT]

Okay, so before I head off for the night - I thought I'd ask you all a few questions.

Do you know people who are over 80 who are still going out without masks? Do they go to indoor events where people sing (like church) or where people might spend a couple of hours indoors (like clubs or Rotary or whatnot)?

I'm asking because nearly all of my older relatives are gone. My MiL is 82 (got CoVid in hospital, is home, doing "okay," but now quite frail; she had a fall and had to go to hospital). My good friend is 71, has no clue how she got it (maybe a pharmacy?) Says she has worn a mask every time she's gone out - she's fine too. Maybe a bit of brain fog and fatigue. My cousin, aged 70, worked in a place with refrigerated air - did not wear a mask, was very very sick and now has a persistent cough, weakness, fatigue, brain fog, some kind of shooting pain in his head.

I keep wondering if the word is getting out to the older people. These church stories really get to me - so preventable and I don't get why people are still doing church in person. Do we blame the pastors for opening up on Sundays? Are the elderly demanding/asking for these services? My mom stopped going to church after her last cancer surgery (she was 80), it was just too difficult for her. She was a germophobe and would always call ahead before family gatherings to ask if anyone had the sniffles or any signs of infection.

Are there people out there who just don't understand - or do they think they've lived long enough?

Do you foresee a time (like, when you're 90 or something) when you just will want to go out and do whatever you want to do?

I don't know any elderly people who go out without masks, but I haven't seen anyone without a mask on for literally weeks now--except for babies and toddlers.

I can imagine someone who is elderly and perhaps a bit feeble of mind not wanting to wear a mask just because they might not be thinking clearly.

 

[neesaki]

I have a cousin in Arizona who is anti-mask. She posts her ideas about this regularly on Facebook, and has said that anyone who challenges her views about masks is no longer her friend. She has many relatives who are either old or have major risk factors. Luckily, I don't interact her with her because I'm in Florida. I had a discussion about her with another cousin in the Northwest, and he decided to cut off his interactions with her, including online. My anti-mask cousin is well-educated, and has no excuses. I've decided to cut off interactions with her as well. I have asthma, and am over 60. She knows this and doesn't care. Ethically, I think I must tell other relatives so they can make the choice as to how to protect themselves.

Reading these last few posts, I have to say you guys are making me so grateful I live no where near any of my relatives, lol.

 

[GRT]

Studies Point To Big Drop In COVID-19 Death Rates

That's great news! I also read this:

SINGAPORE: An increasingly common mutation of the novel coronavirus found in Europe, North America and parts of Asia may be more infectious but appears less deadly, according to a prominent infectious diseases doctor.

More infectious coronavirus mutation may be 'a good thing', says disease expert - ET HealthWorld

Knowing how to treat it better and having it mutate into a less-deadly version should be very helpful to fighting it.

 

[GRT]

My mother is 80 and still attends church. She had stopped wearing the mask there but has resumed once again. She says her faith is strong and she is not afraid, it's the biggest part of her life. I don't think she will ever stop going unless they go back to online services and I don't see that happening yet.

I think we need to treat churches as special cases because "true believers" will think just as your mother thinks and they will put their faith first. It's just what they do.

Masks should be worn and social distancing could probably be attained if the church held six or seven small and short services rather than one large one and assigned members to time slots and seats.

I've heard that some of the greatest pushback has come from devoutly religious communities.

 

[SouthAussie]

The Governor of Ohio has press conferences twice a week about COVID-19.

It seems like it was a few months ago, but the then health director said that Ohio had just received 20 doses of Remdesivir. They were sent to one location in Ohio and then the Ohio State Hwy Patrol had to drive the medication to whatever hospital had a patient in dire need.

The Health Director no longer works for Ohio due to people protesting at her house (shutdowns etc).

The governor has also mentioned that the vaccines will need to either be refrigerated or frozen and they are currently working on making certain that the state has everything needed around the state.

We have came a long way but we still have a long road ahead.

Yes, there is still a long road ahead. And I commend all the medical staff. Their heroic efforts have gone a long way to bringing the death rate down. They all deserve a medal and a paid-for vacation to the place of their choice when this pandemic is finally over.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/10/21/coronavirus-close-contact-cdc/

Okay, I have to say I am getting weary of all this "new " info about this virus. Now it is just brief contact with people can cause the virus. It was thought you needed a certain period of time, like 15 min to contract the virus. Now it could be a minute here or a minute there with someone who has it. Frankly, I am getting pizzed---- I think I will just hide under my bed.

I always felt this to be the case anyway, and have acted accordingly. I guess since this is a new virus, I've treated it as being worse case scenario until many more studies are in. I can't regret being overly cautious, is my thinking.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

that's one habit I think I'm going to continue doing after the pandemic
the thought of what could be on my groceries is bleck ~shudder~

Me, too. Ever since I read a report that fecal matter can be found on shopping cart handles, I’ve thought about people then picking up a grocery item to examine and putting it back. I also don’t know if the stockers and loaders wash after using the bathroom. I’m totally on board still with wiping down items I’m putting in my fridge.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

We've been talking about why some folks don't want to follow guidelines... here is an example (with some editing out) of what was posted on a restaurant business Facebook page. It appears they were shut down due to COVID violations... they posted they were closing for good until after Christmas but appears they are now going to reopen. But reading this just reinforces what many of you have stated of how hard it must for so many and to have your livelihood and income threatened due to regulations.

"In the midst of my total meltdown and tantrum over Covid guidelines we could not have been open for several days.... With that being said we will open Saturday morning at 7 with limited dining room seating. Let’s see how it goes. I’m not an enforcer . I don’t like to be told what to do with my business. I know how to run my business. To all of the locals you are who I serve. You took care of us at the onset of the pandemic and we want to serve you. Please do not come to (name of restaurant) if you are uncomfortable being around others....."


Back to Dr. Campbell. He covers mostly herd immunity (through natural infection or immunization) from yesterday, and had one interesting graph re R0 and % needed to be immune for herd immunity through either natural infection or vaccine.

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[Trino]

Feds to Allow 15,000 to worship on National Mall. No masks required.

This event is Oct 25.

A tent for baptisms will feature 20 pastors to “help manage the area and the flow of the crowd that could gather, along with baptising people [sic],” according to the permit. Water will also be provided, along with prepackaged communion cups. Food trucks will line a nearby street, the permit notes.

Feds to Let 15,000 Worship on National Mall—Masks Be Damned

 

[Trino]

So, what do criminals do with stolen vaccines?

Vaccine dummies: To prevent theft, Pfizer and other coronavirus vaccine makers are engaging in some Mission Impossible-level security measures, including deploying empty “dummy trucks” to confuse criminals. Counterfeiting and theft of pharma products rose almost 70% globally the past five years, the WSJ reports.

Source: Morning Brew, October 22, 2020

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Feds to Allow 15,000 to worship on National Mall. No masks required.

This event is Oct 25.

A tent for baptisms will feature 20 pastors to “help manage the area and the flow of the crowd that could gather, along with baptising people [sic],” according to the permit. Water will also be provided, along with prepackaged communion cups. Food trucks will line a nearby street, the permit notes.

Feds to Let 15,000 Worship on National Mall—Masks Be Damned

I'm wondering what the logistics are going to be for the inauguration in January?

 

[Trino]

I'm wondering what the logistics are going to be for the inauguration in January?

Well, we can surmise no masks if one party wins.

Below is an article that says absolutely nothing, except the price.
Inaugural Ceremonies Committee moves ahead with plans for 59th swearing-in - Roll Call

 

[sds71]

My mother is 80 and still attends church. She had stopped wearing the mask there but has resumed once again. She says her faith is strong and she is not afraid, it's the biggest part of her life. I don't think she will ever stop going unless they go back to online services and I don't see that happening yet.

my ex -MIL in Panama City is the same way.

 

[MimosaMornings]

Me, too. Ever since I read a report that fecal matter can be found on shopping cart handles, I’ve thought about people then picking up a grocery item to examine and putting it back. I also don’t know if the stockers and loaders wash after using the bathroom. I’m totally on board still with wiping down items I’m putting in my fridge.

I’ve been wiping a lot of grocery items (especially can soda) for years plus cart handles and around the top of the cart.
A family member managed a small grocery store and what he told me was disgusting.
Dirty diapers being left in a cart was very common.
The same goes for using an ATM or teller machine. You would not believe what people do. JMO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

The Miami Herald is the best newspaper in the state, IMO. I live in Palm Beach County, and I subscribe to the Palm Beach Post online. The Miami Herald has outstanding articles, but like the Post, is behind a paywall. The Miami Herald has coverage of the so-far successful attempt to reinstate the Miami-Dade curfew, which was struck down by a judge after a suit by a strip club. Miami-Dade wants to curb nightlife, as the crowds can spread the virus quite efficiently.... Miami-Dade Curfew Reinstated By Appellate Court Monday

Unfortunately, the Governor’s attitude is to open up everything as if there’s no pandemic. He forbade counties from fining people who violated mask ordinances, and has steadily demanded, then required, the reopening of public venues and schools. As I understand it, our Governor is an advocate of “herd immunity” theory, with the idea being that if the virus spreads to much of the population, there will be enough immunity to stop the further spread. Those of us who are unwell or old are to simply stay indoors and isolate ourselves, as if this really works... He also “opened up” long term care facilities, and the disease is still running rampant through them. There are several thousand active cases in long term care facilities now. As of now some of the cases can still be tracked on the Florida DOH site: Home
As other posts have noted, the Governor is considering curtailing the release of daily cases. A former FL DOH employee, likely fired for her desire to provide accurate data, has an alternate website that may end up being the only public source of information - Florida Covid Community Action: Experience

In a state with so many retirees, the attitude simply stuns...

The name of the game in Florida is confusion.

The school case numbers are downplayed at the state level.

The death numbers are always confusing.

The governor is redefining how deaths are to be defined, and he has set up processes to go backwards to redo death reports.

And the threats to reduce the reporting to biweekly or weekly are swimming around.

There is serious argument that you can not reduce down reporting until the case, hospitalizaiton, and death numbers are greatly reduced.

We just remain in confusion.

COVID-19 deaths in Florida to get further review

Scott Rivkees implements additional COVID-19 fatality review process

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Unfortunately, the Governor’s attitude is to open up everything as if there’s no pandemic. He forbade counties from fining people who violated mask ordinances, and has steadily demanded, then required, the reopening of public venues and schools. As I understand it, our Governor is an advocate of “herd immunity” theory, with the idea being that if the virus spreads to much of the population, there will be enough immunity to stop the further spread. Those of us who are unwell or old are to simply stay indoors and isolate ourselves, as if this really works... He also “opened up” long term care facilities, and the disease is still running rampant through them. There are several thousand active cases in long term care facilities now. As of now some of the cases can still be tracked on the Florida DOH site: Home
As other posts have noted, the Governor is considering curtailing the release of daily cases. A former FL DOH employee, likely fired for her desire to provide accurate data, has an alternate website that may end up being the only public source of information - Florida Covid Community Action: Experience

In a state with so many retirees, the attitude simply stuns...

Thanks for providing the alternate website... First take, I do find it confusing., though her school ages cases certainly are higher. Have you been following the alternative site over time? What numbers are you looking at most closely??

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Two-in-five Californians have doubts about safety of COVID-19 vaccine, survey says

Even as the world anxiously awaits a vaccine to end the COVID-19 pandemic, 40% of Californians remain unconvinced they would get immunized if a shot was available today, a new survey released Wednesday found.

Two-in-five Californians have doubts about safety of COVID-19 vaccine, survey says

 

[JerseyGirl]

Feds to Allow 15,000 to worship on National Mall. No masks required.

This event is Oct 25.

A tent for baptisms will feature 20 pastors to “help manage the area and the flow of the crowd that could gather, along with baptising people [sic],” according to the permit. Water will also be provided, along with prepackaged communion cups. Food trucks will line a nearby street, the permit notes.

Feds to Let 15,000 Worship on National Mall—Masks Be Damned

Washington D.C. is currently in Phase 2 of the city's reopening plan, which prohibits gatherings of over 50 people. The city's guidelines also encourage people to wear face coverings both in and outdoors when coming within 6 feet of others.

However, Washington D.C.'s guidelines outline that certain activities, including religious gatherings, are permitted to exceed the capacity limits through an approved local waiver.

It's unclear how the city approves these waivers and whether Feucht's rally this weekend has obtained one.

Thousands expected to gather for religious rally at National Mall this weekend despite D.C. COVID-19 restrictions