Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #84

[LaborDayRN]

Very cool!!! It should be on TV.

I LOVE this!!

 

[10ofRods]

It's good to know some immunity might remain. That's encouraging! Do you recommend humidifiers indoors? Or, would that even make a difference? Heated indoor air is so dry anyway, and if it helps promote the spread of the virus that's going to be worse.

We have a humidifier, although we don't have forced air heating any longer anyway. But we plan to use it if we're going to be running errands or otherwise running into Covid - if it's dry (which it often is here in winter).

Figure it can't hurt.

 

[10ofRods]

I agree that has to be our focus, and because of that, we need to proceed in a manner that is most likely to get people to act safely.

I'm one of those "you catch more bees with honey..." people. I believe most people do what they think is right, so in order to protect more people, we need to help them understand that wearing masks and taking other precautions is the right thing to do. I believe we will be more successful if we lead by example and be encouraging.

What I'm seeing, however, is negativity and judgementalism, and I don't think that will convince anyone to wear a mask if they don't want to. I think it will do the opposite and make them rebellious.

So, if our purpose is to truly put a lid on this virus, I think we have to express ourselves to our families, friends, and others in a positive sense, not by calling them names or being divisive.

And, isn't that what all of us want? To stop the virus and stop the death toll from rising? I know that if someone asks me nicely to do a favor, I'm more likely to do it than if they tell me I'm a moron.

I just think we could be going about this in a much more positive and efficient way.

I wonder how we reach the people who aren't wearing masks though. I don't think most mask-wearers are coming into much contact with the non mask-wearers. Where I live, the nearest grocery store has a lot of non-compliant people who fall into a couple of categories, but the larger group is young men. I'm not sure where they're getting "negativity and judgmentalism" as everyone just kind of ignores them and tries to avoid them in the store (it's against our local rules, but no one is enforcing at that store). We've gone out to get take-out food just twice, we don't do it any more because...there are people waiting to pick up who aren't wearing masks (it's out on a sidewalk, but still). No one says anything to them. They get the same service as any one else (again, all males and I mention that because the non-mask wearers look to me as if they wouldn't take kindly to any suggestion to wear a mask).

I suspect a lot of these people either live alone or with others who have no more success getting them to wear masks. It's a matter of common sense. I've never heard of anyone calling a non mask-wearer a moron. Many in my family work in healthcare settings, they always ask politely for people to wear masks and sometimes they do, sometimes they storm off.

I think the problem is that some people see the masks as political or they see them as weakness. We also have entire families not wearing masks out for walks in places both crowded and uncrowded, I don't know anyone would who walk up to strangers and tell them to wear masks. That's why all the rest of us are committed to wearing them.

Instead of the non-wearers being asked to wear them, people who are uncomfortable being around them simply leave their presence, which is why my friend group mostly stays away from the newly opening businesses. I know that some food workers are not wearing masks while out of sight of the public and that their managers aren't asking, politely or not, for them to stop that practice. While I'm not too concerned about getting CoVid from food, it does make me think twice about eating out (I am going to try an outdoor cafe with a friend today, for the first time in 9 months).

"My dad doesn't think he needs a mask" is frequently uttered by my students, who are worried about him. They aren't mocking him, they are simply worried - but it doesn't do any good.

 

[ilovewings]

The ammonia smell would be very difficult to live with. How can someone eat nutritious foods if they smell awful? I wonder what percentage of infected people develop that effect and how long it persists.

I would imagine people who have problems with different smells and or no taste or smell, must be losing weight ,because they w0uldn't even want to eat. This could certainly pose a serious problem if someone isn't eating.

 

[10ofRods]

I get sick of the no maskers. Someone told me the other day that they've proven that masks don't work. I told him differently, that the study he was referring to was flawed, and that masks are part of the solution, no, not 100%, but still an essential part.
I'm also a retired RN, and there is obviously a reason that when we had patients in isolation, that we all wore masks!
But I'm sure it went in one ear and out the other. Well we can't save everyone can we.
Has anyone seen this? I think it's so cool.

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See - I don't know how else to approach it, but factually. I'm sure you were nice, as well. My goal is to protect others, I don't want them getting CoVid. I do not know how we'll handle it in the schools (K-12 scheduled to open here on Nov 30 for some bizarre reason). Teachers will certainly explain why and be nice about it, but in this case, we're dealing with kids as young as 4. And their parents. The message has been completely factual and the mask rule is supposed to be strictly adhered to (kids with issues where they can't wear masks will remain in distance ed). However, no one will be making the parents standing outside at pick-up time adhere to mask rules.

Bus drivers in more than one nation have been attacked (one died of his injuries in France) for pointing to the sign about masks and asking that a person wears one. Perhaps it was perceived as judgmental, but I don't see how such workers are to do anything else, they can't engage in a long conversation with a maskless person about what masks do and what the science is (and even that is perceived as being a scientific know-it-all).

The problem is pretty deep at this point. Fortunately, it looks like about 80% of people in France are wearing their masks as required and same is true here in most of urban/suburban California (not the Central Valley though). And that's enough to really slow the rate of CoVid transmission. France has just reinstituted stricter measures so we'll see how that goes for them - it looks like most are obeying.

 

[10ofRods]

We still have a nursing home problem in the US.

All 60+ residents of a Kansas nursing home have CoVid, 10 have died.

While it is true that most of these people were going to die eventually in their care home anyway, I believe CoVid hastened their death and of course, the staff has it too.

L.A. County continues to be the place in California with the highest number of cases (it also has the largest population). 68% of new cases are in young people. This is driving the acquisition of CoVid in their workplaces and households, but it does bring the mortality statistic down.

Wisconsin has one of the highest per capita numbers of current CoVid cases, but people are not staying home or changing their behavior significantly. Sadly, they projected to have an additional 5000 deaths by end of January if this continues. This means that 1 in 1000 residents of Wisconsin will have died if nothing changes.

UK continues to see daily records in new cases for the past few days. All of Wales is on a 2 week "lockdown" (not sure exactly what it means or who is considered still essential).

Republic of Ireland is moving to their highest level of lockdown - for 6 weeks.

CoVid rates are not inflated. (Scientific American article). And I'll add that if a person is medically compromised, gets CoVid and then dies within a month, they should be classed as a CoVId death, as the infection hastened their death. We have not, in the past, taken infectious diseases off of death certificates on the view that someone "knew that the person was going to die anyway." We can back the extremely elderly (who is the group in question) out of the data to see what's going on, but it's still a death hastened by CoVid.

 

[weepingangel]

In these rural parts of the country, medical resources to battle COVID-19 are limited

 

[dixiegirl1035]

See - I don't know how else to approach it, but factually. I'm sure you were nice, as well. My goal is to protect others, I don't want them getting CoVid. I do not know how we'll handle it in the schools (K-12 scheduled to open here on Nov 30 for some bizarre reason). Teachers will certainly explain why and be nice about it, but in this case, we're dealing with kids as young as 4. And their parents. The message has been completely factual and the mask rule is supposed to be strictly adhered to (kids with issues where they can't wear masks will remain in distance ed). However, no one will be making the parents standing outside at pick-up time adhere to mask rules.

Bus drivers in more than one nation have been attacked (one died of his injuries in France) for pointing to the sign about masks and asking that a person wears one. Perhaps it was perceived as judgmental, but I don't see how such workers are to do anything else, they can't engage in a long conversation with a maskless person about what masks do and what the science is (and even that is perceived as being a scientific know-it-all).

The problem is pretty deep at this point. Fortunately, it looks like about 80% of people in France are wearing their masks as required and same is true here in most of urban/suburban California (not the Central Valley though). And that's enough to really slow the rate of CoVid transmission. France has just reinstituted stricter measures so we'll see how that goes for them - it looks like most are obeying.

So appreciate your view as many of your insights I'm just very ignorant of.

 

[anneg]

I would imagine people who have problems with different smells and or no taste or smell, must be losing weight ,because they w0uldn't even want to eat. This could certainly pose a serious problem if someone isn't eating.

I once knew a woman who had lost her ability to taste and smell as a result of cancer surgery. She had no interest in food and had to force herself to eat. But she was able to maintain her weight, at least during the years I knew her. She had a husband to cook for, so that helped.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

We still have a nursing home problem in the US.

All 60+ residents of a Kansas nursing home have CoVid, 10 have died.

While it is true that most of these people were going to die eventually in their care home anyway, I believe CoVid hastened their death and of course, the staff has it too.

L.A. County continues to be the place in California with the highest number of cases (it also has the largest population). 68% of new cases are in young people. This is driving the acquisition of CoVid in their workplaces and households, but it does bring the mortality statistic down.

Wisconsin has one of the highest per capita numbers of current CoVid cases, but people are not staying home or changing their behavior significantly. Sadly, they projected to have an additional 5000 deaths by end of January if this continues. This means that 1 in 1000 residents of Wisconsin will have died if nothing changes.

UK continues to see daily records in new cases for the past few days. All of Wales is on a 2 week "lockdown" (not sure exactly what it means or who is considered still essential).

Republic of Ireland is moving to their highest level of lockdown - for 6 weeks.

CoVid rates are not inflated. (Scientific American article). And I'll add that if a person is medically compromised, gets CoVid and then dies within a month, they should be classed as a CoVId death, as the infection hastened their death. We have not, in the past, taken infectious diseases off of death certificates on the view that someone "knew that the person was going to die anyway." We can back the extremely elderly (who is the group in question) out of the data to see what's going on, but it's still a death hastened by CoVid.

The ratios of CRF and IRF are falling off (as expected with a pandemic hitting the most vulnerable )... so I expect a NEW KNOWLEDGE curve of focus on those that are young and midlife.

I do wonder how that may affect local and country approaches.. as MOO in the beginning it was focused to keep numbers down due to overwhelming the hospitals.

I think you may and other may understand where I'm going... that the next expected phase (in the media and ???? policy ????? ) may be on such... vs. Rt.

MOO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I agree that has to be our focus, and because of that, we need to proceed in a manner that is most likely to get people to act safely.

I'm one of those "you catch more bees with honey..." people. I believe most people do what they think is right, so in order to protect more people, we need to help them understand that wearing masks and taking other precautions is the right thing to do. I believe we will be more successful if we lead by example and be encouraging.

What I'm seeing, however, is negativity and judgementalism, and I don't think that will convince anyone to wear a mask if they don't want to. I think it will do the opposite and make them rebellious.

So, if our purpose is to truly put a lid on this virus, I think we have to express ourselves to our families, friends, and others in a positive sense, not by calling them names or being divisive.

And, isn't that what all of us want? To stop the virus and stop the death toll from rising? I know that if someone asks me nicely to do a favor, I'm more likely to do it than if they tell me I'm a moron.

I just think we could be going about this in a much more positive and efficient way.

I getcha...I understand what you are trying to say, and want this too. We just have to work together.


On a personal level, I just keep as far away as I can when i see maskless in a group, or if one has snuck into a store. I have had to have a number of workers in my house...and I always hand them a mask if they don't have one. I just say " I am just more vulnerable and cannot take chances, and they are usually just fine saying "no problem"...

But on a broader level, how CAN we get people to work together to get through this together....

There is enough evidence, science, to know what we have to do to avoid shut downs....

What should we do to positively encourage people to help each other.......

And What SHOULD I do, when someone says its all a hoax, its just the flu, and its proven that masks don't really work... social media local neighborhood sites where I live say this all the time..

i just don't know.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

For the past six weeks or so, I don't think I've seen anyone in any store I've been in without a mask. I've seen some folks wearing them incorrectly, such as pushed below their noses, but very, very few.

I do hear people objecting to wearing masks, but they still wear them. At least they do where I am.

For the most part, everyone seems to be following the rules, and while that video is cute, stuff like that is part of the problem because it's divisive and it downplays the ideas of others. In short, stuff like that is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

I say we all just wear our masks and continue to encourage others to wears theirs. It's going to be a while until we're all in the clear and safe again.

What state do you live in???
I am comfortable in MOST stores, because they do demand masks....
but I am in FL.... gobs of maskless......

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Just a regular update of Florida. We are still concerned the Gov is going to give up regular counting and monitoring of total cases, and hospitalizations....

Florida reported an increase of 3,662 cases of COVID-19 on Tuesday, more than twice as many as the day before, along with 84 additional resident deaths

According to state health officials, 5 million have tested negative while more than 760,389 have tested positive, bringing the state’s overall positivity rate to 13.17%

But the positivity rates are so confusing. One of the attached articles says it is at 6.1%

South Florida reports rising COVID-19 infections in schools as state reports 3,662 new cases

Coronavirus: Florida adds 3,662 new cases Tuesday, 84 more resident deaths

 

[musicaljoke]

Gym closed? No problem!

Gym Turns into a Church to Beat New Coronavirus Restrictions

The manager of The Atlantic Sports and Fitness Club in Kraków, Poland explained that instead of focusing on fitness, it will now be a shop where people can come and try out its machines and also the 'Church of the Healthy Body'.

"Since fitness classes cannot function, religious congregation of members of the pn union are starting today at our club, 'Church of the Healthy Body'. Hard to believe? Everything is possible in this world. Enlightened Olek and Czcigodna Gosia invite you to special religious events today."

That attempt to circumvent the guidelines wouldn't fly in these parts. If the church is having a gym event, then it has to follow the gym recommendations for that event. If it's having a kids' activity, then it has to follow the day care protocol. If it's having a meal, then it has to follow the restaurant drill ... etc.

 

[Shelby1]

I went to a mid-size grocery store this morning to pick up my husband's meds and while I'm in there, I usually go ahead and pick up some groceries. I stocked up a little more than usual today...they had pasta on sale for 99 cents (American Beauty) so I grabbed some. Anyway, I had to listen to a long diatribe from the check out person regarding his large dislike of wearing a mask. I am very non confrontational so I just listened. He was calling for people to "rise up and refuse the mask" ****eyeroll****. It was all I could do to keep my mouth shut.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I getcha...I understand what you are trying to say, and want this too. We just have to work together.


On a personal level, I just keep as far away as I can when i see maskless in a group, or if one has snuck into a store. I have had to have a number of workers in my house...and I always hand them a mask if they don't have one. I just say " I am just more vulnerable and cannot take chances, and they are usually just fine saying "no problem"...

But on a broader level, how CAN we get people to work together to get through this together....

There is enough evidence, science, to know what we have to do to avoid shut downs....

What should we do to positively encourage people to help each other.......

And What SHOULD I do, when someone says its all a hoax, its just the flu, and its proven that masks don't really work... social media local neighborhood sites where I live say this all the time..

i just don't know.

That is one reason I did the shout out to @10ofRods ... some here may understand better how to share vs. saying "you aren't a critical thinker" and here is info.

I really would love to know what to share to educate others. Without insulting them as you point out so well, once you say the words "critical thinker" or ????, they shut down and perhaps get pizzed and shut out ALL such info?

@10ofRods, truly what can we do to educate folks vs. pizzing them off. I don't want anyone to sway to my way... but I do do see that folks just don't understand some of the basics such as exponential growth and timeframe.

 

[musicaljoke]

I wonder how we reach the people who aren't wearing masks though. I don't think most mask-wearers are coming into much contact with the non mask-wearers. Where I live, the nearest grocery store has a lot of non-compliant people who fall into a couple of categories, but the larger group is young men. I'm not sure where they're getting "negativity and judgmentalism" as everyone just kind of ignores them and tries to avoid them in the store (it's against our local rules, but no one is enforcing at that store). We've gone out to get take-out food just twice, we don't do it any more because...there are people waiting to pick up who aren't wearing masks (it's out on a sidewalk, but still). No one says anything to them. They get the same service as any one else (again, all males and I mention that because the non-mask wearers look to me as if they wouldn't take kindly to any suggestion to wear a mask).

I suspect a lot of these people either live alone or with others who have no more success getting them to wear masks. It's a matter of common sense. I've never heard of anyone calling a non mask-wearer a moron. Many in my family work in healthcare settings, they always ask politely for people to wear masks and sometimes they do, sometimes they storm off.

I think the problem is that some people see the masks as political or they see them as weakness. We also have entire families not wearing masks out for walks in places both crowded and uncrowded, I don't know anyone would who walk up to strangers and tell them to wear masks. That's why all the rest of us are committed to wearing them.

Instead of the non-wearers being asked to wear them, people who are uncomfortable being around them simply leave their presence, which is why my friend group mostly stays away from the newly opening businesses. I know that some food workers are not wearing masks while out of sight of the public and that their managers aren't asking, politely or not, for them to stop that practice. While I'm not too concerned about getting CoVid from food, it does make me think twice about eating out (I am going to try an outdoor cafe with a friend today, for the first time in 9 months).

"My dad doesn't think he needs a mask" is frequently uttered by my students, who are worried about him. They aren't mocking him, they are simply worried - but it doesn't do any good.

I wonder if some men aren't wearing masks because they believe the wrong message. Do they believe that masks are worn to protect the wearer? A strong man, who is not afraid of a wee little killer virus, would not need a mask.

Is there a way to reinforce the correct message so that young men understand they are saving their communities from disaster by wearing a mask? They become manly heros. I know it's so awfully stereotyped, but at this point, I don't really care. There has to be a way to get men to understand the correct message.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

We still have a nursing home problem in the US.

All 60+ residents of a Kansas nursing home have CoVid, 10 have died.

While it is true that most of these people were going to die eventually in their care home anyway, I believe CoVid hastened their death and of course, the staff has it too.

L.A. County continues to be the place in California with the highest number of cases (it also has the largest population). 68% of new cases are in young people. This is driving the acquisition of CoVid in their workplaces and households, but it does bring the mortality statistic down.

Wisconsin has one of the highest per capita numbers of current CoVid cases, but people are not staying home or changing their behavior significantly. Sadly, they projected to have an additional 5000 deaths by end of January if this continues. This means that 1 in 1000 residents of Wisconsin will have died if nothing changes.

UK continues to see daily records in new cases for the past few days. All of Wales is on a 2 week "lockdown" (not sure exactly what it means or who is considered still essential).

Republic of Ireland is moving to their highest level of lockdown - for 6 weeks.

CoVid rates are not inflated. (Scientific American article). And I'll add that if a person is medically compromised, gets CoVid and then dies within a month, they should be classed as a CoVId death, as the infection hastened their death. We have not, in the past, taken infectious diseases off of death certificates on the view that someone "knew that the person was going to die anyway." We can back the extremely elderly (who is the group in question) out of the data to see what's going on, but it's still a death hastened by CoVid.

... and the infections go from group to group to group, and then come back to the most fragile.

Dam*.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

In these rural parts of the country, medical resources to battle COVID-19 are limited

And why are the death rates so down as to CFR/IFR now.

Will rural hospitals have the same options as did Dr. Seheult and others at the outset?

I know that I will consider what hospital I have for coverage next year as it is public now. But how many folks even know to look for?

I've put in a request to mods to be able to discuss insurance as such. Its VERY VERY VERY significant to me as ONLY ONE hospital in the options have such studies.

 

[24Roses]

Iowa numbers today: As of 10:00-11:00 a.m., we had 727 new confirmed cases for a total of 108,297 new confirmed cases of which 83,463 had recovered (+1.407). 14 more were reported to have passed for a total of 1,548. 71 were hospitalized in the last 24 hrs. for a total of 501 (IMO a new daily record). There are 24,834 active positive cases. Oct. 20: COVID-19 hospitalizations pass 500 as Iowa reports 14 more deaths
Iowa COVID-19 Information