Crystal S., Haleigh's mother #6

[debs]

Many doctor appointments are set up month's in advance - especially the kind of appointment that you spend a long time at, which apparently this was (per Crystal's testimony). It is absolutely ludicrous to blame Ron for setting it up the date they had court. If you read the transcript, you'll see that the appointment was HOURS prior to the hearing. Crystal had time to either take Junior, or call and RESCHEDULE it. Matter of fact, since she apparently had Junior overnight, she could have just canceled the appointment the day before the hearing and rescheduled. Why did she just not show up? When you do that, most doctor's will charge you for the appointment.

Crystal had an attorney on record as soon as the original custody decision was handed down. He is the one that filed the objection to the Magistrate's Ruling and asked for a rehearing. I doubt he allowed his client to be "bullied".

Ronald states he received a note giving him the day/time of Jr's appt AFTER Crystal picked the children up on Christmas day. That leaves Monday morning for him to have gotten a notice. Crystal has had the children less than 24 hours at this time. He later states that he informs Crystal of the Dr's appt. for an 8:30 a.m. call on TUESDAY. Could she have still made it? Possibly, but at the risk of missing the court hearing which began at 10:41 the same morning this Dr's visit was to have taken place. Ronald offers no documentation that there was a scheduled appointment (like, say the notice. It is not entered into the court documents, anyway).

Ronald states Crystal got the children on Christmas Day (Sunday). He then states to the court that "Well, it was supposed to be she would have them for Christmas and a week, but then I asked her, once I received the Dr's note if she would bring them back on Monday night so I could get him there on Tuesday, or if she was going to take him to the Dr. on Tuesday, today at 8:30 this morning. She agreed to either bring them home Monday night or take him to the doctor. She wasn't sure."

Exactly WHEN did he receive that Dr's note informing him of a Tuesday 8:30 a.m. visit? From his account, that happened AFTER Crystal picked up her children. That gives him Christmas for a mail delivery (Sunday, not happening; holiday, not happening) and Monday morning. So, Monday morning he gets the mail and calls and tells her to return the children she'd just gotten back into her arms.

We're back to her having to get there that night (as he states he requested) or early a.m. the next day. Whatever you may want to call it, this does not seem a fair warning in any context that the entire schedule, already messed up because of a court hearing, was to be messed up even more. Further, he states that one of the options was to bring "them" (not just Jr) home...ending Crystal's visit, her first in nearly 4 months.

The Dr's appt. was for 8:30 a.m. the day of the hearing, which started at 10:41 a.m. Without making an excuse for her, it would have required Crystal getting the two children up before 6 a.m. to feed, wash, dress and get on the road for the appt. She already had to go to Palatka for the court hearing. I suppose some people would blame her for not coming down the day before since the appt was so early in the morning. But who here has EVER gotten in to their appt on time? (I ask; it was a rhetorical question because I understand it IS possible, so please, don't fill the discussion up with the obvious). It is a calculation people make every time they go to the Dr. "I have this and this to do today and my Dr appt is at ### time so I will have to do this and this before/after." The Dr visit is ALWAYS a flex time issue.

Say she had made the 8:30 a.m. appt. and it goes long. Then she misses her court hearing, which was scheduled because she missed the last one due to (the court recognizes this as fact) the papers being sent to the wrong address. She's stuck in a no-win situation. Better to miss the Dr appt to make the court. I do not fault her for that.

The Dr's appt was stated as having been confirmed the day before the hearing. I've gone through this one sufficiently enough that is should be apparent that Crystal was not given any true advance warning and was stuck having to make a decision to not go to court for a hearing that was arranged because she'd missed the last court date, or take Jr to an appt that MIGHT be concluded in time. I feel she made a difficult choice, but one that weighed the greater potential outcome of obtaining custody versus a Dr appt that could be rescheduled.

She also explained why, and the judge accepted her answer. She knew the Dr visit could run long, and she had missed her last court date due to papers sent to a wrong address (which the court ALSO accepted as true, or there would be no hearing taking place at the time). She had a difficult choice to make and she chose to go to court in the hopes of getting custody of her children.

She also explains why she missed Dr appt's for HaLeigh. She had no license, she was pregnant, wasn't well enough to get out of bed, granny fell asleep at the wheel....excuses? No. Explanations that demonstrate how trapped she must have felt, yes. Again, was it only Crystal's responsibility to get HaLeigh to the Dr? No. Ronald admits he was self-employed at that time. I understand getting a job and having to do it. I just see two people whose circumstances in life made it difficult for each of them.

"She was using cocaine." is the statement Ronald offered with no substantiation for the claim which launched his determination to not return the children as he stated he would. Crystal admits she used cocaine in the past, putting the last usage at around a year prior. She refutes Ron's unsubstantiated claim that she was using drugs in August when he felt the need to keep the children from her. I have no reason to doubt her. The judge allows Ron's unsubstantiated claim to stand, and demands from Crystal a witness who can prove that he was using and driving with the kids in the car when he had an accident a month prior to the hearing. That one should substantiate while the other is not asked to is just more evidence IMO! that she was railroaded.

 

[lakelandladi]

I believe Ron was trying to substantiate his claim by having a subpoena issued to Michael W.

 

[mysticrose]

I'm sorry but a judge is not going to give custody to one party due to default!
And if Crystal showed up to any of the court dates it isn’t default!

IMO there were other reasons Ron got custody and there is a reason that
he still has custody!

I wonder why Crystal hasn't gone for custody of JR.... I mean... if I wanted
custody of my kids so bad I would file for it under the circumstances!

I beg to differ this opinion BBM..

My aunt had a court appointment set up to determine custody of her son with her ex. He did not show up ! The court gave her full sole custody of her son and also set child support due to her word of what he was making. Her ex replied back to the court that he did not recieve the papers stating he needed to be there and what time...Well that got him nowhere with the court even after it was determined that his girlfriend at the time threw the papers away. My Aunt still has full sole custody no matter what happened.
JMO Of course

 

[mysticrose]

I'm sorry I don't get this part?
If Ron was working and Crystal was home do you think it’s his responsibility
to wake Crystal so she could keep the doctor appointments?
I'm sorry... her not getting out of bed to take Haleigh to the doctors
is NOT Ron's fault!

She either wanted to be a mom or not... IMO she did not!
If you so depressed that you can’t even get out of bed then IMO you should
not have custody of your children!

I'm glad that he was awarded custody because someone had to feed,
clothe and care for the kids!

Let’s assume his mom helped him… I see nothing wrong with that and I would
see nothing wrong with Crystal’s family helping her do her share!

Truth is Crystal and her family sat by and let Ron and his family support the
kids 100%.

BBM...My point is he knew Crystal was not getting those kids to the doctors appointment's. Ron being the other parent if he was so concerned they were not getting there could have made other arrangements to get the kids there especially when he knew she wasn't doing her job getting up.

If the other parent is not getting the job done then the other parent needs to step up and help get it done. Its called shared parenting. It is not Ron's fault to an extent that she wasn't getting out of bed, but he knew this and therefore could have made different arrangements, that there is where he is at fault.

 

[mysticrose]

Sure, Ron, the only person providing for the kids COULD have just skipped out on work to take HaLeigh to the doctor - is there any proof he KNEW she was missing appointments until he got custody, though? Again, Crystal was the one who was supposed to be the "stay at home mother".

I'm sorry, there is absolutely no evidence Crystal was depressed. There has not even been a suggestion of such a thing. IMO, that sounds like an excuse to let Crystal off the hook for missing 12 appointments of HaLeigh's. Even Crystal didn't try to excuse her behavior. She apologized and said she wasn't going to blame anyone but herself. And to suggest that Ron and his family talked behind her back is outrageous, IMO. There is no proof that any such thing has happened. Matter of fact, no one has ever even suggested such a thing, and I'm sure if that happened, we'd have heard about it when Ron got trashed in the media.

Ron offered to take Junior to the doctor's appointment that day himself - at the risk of missing the hearing. When your child needs to see a cardiologist, you don't cancel the appointment. And you can't call court and just cancel it. That is NOT how a court works. Motions need to be filed, and a judge needs to grant them. But, Ron DID try to take responsibility - Crystal did not bring Junior to him and allow him to bring him to the appointment. She chose to let Junior miss the appointment. Sometimes things are exactly what they seem.

And no, this is not the hearing Crystal didn't have notice for. This is the hearing Crystal requested after she missed the first one on December 5th, IIRC.

This is interesting, no evidence is about right in alot of things said about Crystal and Ron. Thats just it, why do these conversations keep going on when no one here knows anything about these two's relationship, what was said, what was done but everyone will go on and on.

Yes you can call the Judge's clerk and arrange for the court date to be moved to a different time even after it is set as long as it is not last minute, but that does happen as well due to emergency issues. You do not have to file a motion for it to happen . I have been through the court system for over 8 years straight in my life, you can do it. You do not cancel it you change it big difference.

 

[atherella]

Yes you can call the Judge's clerk and arrange for the court date to be moved to a different time even after it is set as long as it is not last minute, but that does happen as well due to emergency issues. You do not have to file a motion for it to happen . I have been through the court system for over 8 years straight in my life, you can do it. You do not cancel it you change it big difference.

Snipped

I have worked in the court system for almost 14 years now - and you do not call the courts for a doctor appointment and say you can't make court. You have to file a "Motion to Continue" and allow the other party a chance to file an objection (where I live, there is 10 days allotted to file objections). Generally, you try to get the other party's consent when filing such a motion. However, you do need to file a motion. The only time you can call the court is if it is a matter of life and death - for example, someone is being rushed to the hospital. This is all laid out in the Court Rules in every state. If people were allowed to just call the court and say they couldn't make it, people would call with excuses all the time when they didn't want to go to court, IMO. That is why rules are in place.

We can agree to disagree if you'd like, that's fine.

 

[debs]

Snipped

I have worked in the court system for almost 14 years now - and you do not call the courts for a doctor appointment and say you can't make court. You have to file a "Motion to Continue" and allow the other party a chance to file an objection (where I live, there is 10 days allotted to file objections). Generally, you try to get the other party's consent when filing such a motion. However, you do need to file a motion. The only time you can call the court is if it is a matter of life and death - for example, someone is being rushed to the hospital. This is all laid out in the Court Rules in every state. If people were allowed to just call the court and say they couldn't make it, people would call with excuses all the time when they didn't want to go to court, IMO. That is why rules are in place.

We can agree to disagree if you'd like, that's fine.

So given that Crystal only learned of this doctor's appointment for Jr hours before she was to appear in court for custody, it can be reasonably assumed she had no recourse but to miss the appt in favor of the court hearing, since she'd already missed the one before. Thanks for making it clear what options she really had! NONE!

 

[mysticrose]

Snipped

I have worked in the court system for almost 14 years now - and you do not call the courts for a doctor appointment and say you can't make court. You have to file a "Motion to Continue" and allow the other party a chance to file an objection (where I live, there is 10 days allotted to file objections). Generally, you try to get the other party's consent when filing such a motion. However, you do need to file a motion. The only time you can call the court is if it is a matter of life and death - for example, someone is being rushed to the hospital. This is all laid out in the Court Rules in every state. If people were allowed to just call the court and say they couldn't make it, people would call with excuses all the time when they didn't want to go to court, IMO. That is why rules are in place.

We can agree to disagree if you'd like, that's fine.

If the court date conflicts with appointments it can be done. What do you think the lawyers are doing when they are looking at the calenders and conversing with the Judge. Jr appointment with a Cardio. doc is reason enough to change especially at the time the date was set you had forgotten.
Yes you do need to file a motion to continue but you can call the Clerk and make tenative plans for the change. Most judges allow it. Even without the formality.
Perhaps Ron or should of had the info before him when discussing when to set the next court hearing as a responsible parent.

 

[lil momma]

i just have one little question....

Did RC have an attorney representing him for this custody hearing? (the one everyone is posting about)

 

[cajun]

IIRC, Back in 2005, Crystal didn't have her driver's license.

To me, Patty, having no license is no excuse. She had family and her new man in her life that could have driven her. How was she getting back and forth to Putnam to get the kids for her visits? Someone was driving her.

 

[atherella]

i just have one little question....

Did RC have an attorney representing him for this custody hearing? (the one everyone is posting about)

No, he did not. He represented and testified on his own behalf.

Neither Crystal nor Ron had an attorney at the December 27th, 2005 hearing.

Crystal retained Charles Behm, Esquire when Ron was awarded custody. Attorney Behm filed a "Motion for Rehearing and Objection to Findings of Magistrate" on January 6th, 2006.

 

[harleysnana]

I beg to differ this opinion BBM..

My aunt had a court appointment set up to determine custody of her son with her ex. He did not show up ! The court gave her full sole custody of her son and also set child support due to her word of what he was making. Her ex replied back to the court that he did not recieve the papers stating he needed to be there and what time...Well that got him nowhere with the court even after it was determined that his girlfriend at the time threw the papers away. My Aunt still has full sole custody no matter what happened.
JMO Of course

A judge does not rule by default on custody.
They may take into consideration that the other party did not
respond but their rulling is not based on the default.
JMO

 

[harleysnana]

No, he did not. He represented and testified on his own behalf.

Neither Crystal nor Ron had an attorney at the December 27th, 2005 hearing.

Crystal retained Charles Behm, Esquire when Ron was awarded custody. Attorney Behm filed a "Motion for Rehearing and Objection to Findings of Magistrate" on January 6th, 2006.

The December 27th hearing proves that Ron did not receive
custody by default... so maybe we can now clear up the default issue!

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Why didn't Marie get up and take her when the children needed to go to the doctor?! Why is it contingent on Ronald and his family?! She is the grandmother, too. Crystal is her daughter. Why didn't Marie see to it that someone from their side helped to get the kids to the doctor?

This isn't at all fair to Ronald since he offered to take her. Crystal alone made the decision and it was the wrong one.

 

[snookie]

I have wondered if RC just said that to Crystal because he didnt want to take Haleigh out of school anymore days when she requested it. In looking thru other family members court docs there are charges against a parent for not keeping their kid (s) in school. I could find nothing like that against RC.

Well that could be the case, he just told Crystal that. But given all the unexcused absences and tardies there is no doubt in my mind that he did receive some kind of legal warning, at least from the board of education. That's how it works here anyway.

Have we heard if Crystal did indeed ask Ronald to keep Haleigh out of school?

 

[snookie]

Why didn't Marie get up and take her when the children needed to go to the doctor?! Why is it contingent on Ronald and his family?! She is the grandmother, too. Crystal is her daughter. Why didn't Marie see to it that someone from their side helped to get the kids to the doctor?

This isn't at all fair to Ronald since he offered to take her. Crystal alone made the decision and it was the wrong one.

It is not fair to blame Marie for those missed appointments. Maybe she was not even aware of them, or maybe she had to work or care for her own young children.

Ultimately it was the responsibility of the parents to make sure the children made it to the appts.

 

[raeann]

Well that could be the case, he just told Crystal that. But given all the unexcused absences and tardies there is no doubt in my mind that he did receive some kind of legal warning, at least from the board of education. That's how it works here anyway.

Have we heard if Crystal did indeed ask Ronald to keep Haleigh out of school?

As someone who has worked in many school offices, I can pretty much guarantee you that he had received a notice from the school and perhaps also from the CPS, if they were receiving information from the school regarding Haleigh. It seems likely that they would have been due to her medical condition and the possible learning difficulties that would be involved. The number of absences that had occurred even by the end of the first semester would have been enough that the school would have in all likelihood have been considering retaining her for another year in Kg. It has been reported that she had been referred for some testing regarding her possible disabilities, so the absences would have definitely been an issue with regard to her placement for the coming school year, and the IEP that would need to be created to provide for special services such as speech, adaptive PE classes, etc.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

It is not fair to blame Marie for those missed appointments. Maybe she was not even aware of them, or maybe she had to work or care for her own young children.

Ultimately it was the responsibility of the parents to make sure the children made it to the appts.

No. It was the responsibility of Crystal since the child was in her care at the time. Ronald offered to get him there.

Marie is the grandparent. She does have some responsibility to see that her grandchild is well taken care of as it is what grandparents do for our own. Ronald's mother and grandmother were seeing to it that Crystal had a ride when it was needed not because of Crystal, but only because they truly care so they put the children's needs above their own. As it should be.

 

[snookie]

No. It was the responsibility of Crystal since the child was in her care at the time. Ronald offered to get him there.

Marie is the grandparent. She does have some responsibility to see that her grandchild is well taken care of as it is what grandparents do for our own. Ronald's mother and grandmother were seeing to it that Crystal had a ride when it was needed not because of Crystal, but only because they truly care so they put the children's needs above their own. As it should be.

Using this logic, wasn't it Grandma Teresa's responsibility to make sure Haleigh got to school?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Actually, yes. I think Teresa should have kept up with what was happening in the day to day life of her grands and been there to help when needed to get Haleigh to school if it was a problem. However, we don't know that she didn't...do we? We don't know why Haleigh missed school tho and for all we know...there could be valid reasons instead of someone not wanting to get out of bed to care for the children like Crystal admits to doing.

There is no reason Crystal has for repeatedly not taking her children to the doctors. None.