Crystal S., Haleigh's mother #6

[harleysnana]

Using this logic, wasn't it Grandma Teresa's responsibility to make sure Haleigh got to school?

YES ...if the absence was due to Haleigh not having a ride....
but if it was due to her being sick then NO!

If the issue about missing doctor appointments was due to Haleigh being
sick then that’s fine... but it wasn't ... it was due to Crystal
not getting out of bed to take her or make arrangements for others to take her!

Big difference IMO!

I not only see a problem with Crystal not getting out of bed to take
her to the doctors…… but what was Haleigh doing while Crystal was in bed?

 

[raeann]

Actually, yes. I think Teresa should have kept up with what was happening in the day to day life of her grands and been there to help when needed to get Haleigh to school if it was a problem. However, we don't know that she didn't...do we? We don't know why Haleigh missed school tho and for all we know...there could be valid reasons instead of someone not wanting to get out of bed to care for the children like Crystal admits to doing.

There is no reason Crystal has for repeatedly not taking her children to the doctors. None.

Once again, as someone who has worked in school offices, the only thing that it normally takes to change an unexcused absence into an EXCUSED absence is a simple one minute phone call from a parent. That's it, most often no questions are asked, although in a case where multiple absences have occurred there may be more scrutiny after the fact. The school just needs to be notified, they need to know from the parent that the child is under THEIR care, that they didn't get lost between the bus and the building or fall asleep on the bus, etc. The school needs to KNOW the whereabouts of the child during school hours. It is for the safety of the child!

If Ron was too tired to take her to school, if Haleigh was tired from being up too late, the school just needed a simple phone call. Often, the school counselor or another staff member could help arrange for a backup ride with another parent --- whether that would be clear to school or just to the bus stop. It is so simple, just make a call, that's it.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

YES ...if the absence was due to Haleigh not having a ride....
but if it was due to her being sick then NO!

If the issue about missing doctor appointments was due to Haleigh being
sick then that’s fine... but it wasn't ... it was due to Crystal
not getting out of bed to take her or make arrangements for others to take her!

Big difference IMO!

I not only see a problem with Crystal not getting out of bed to take
her to the doctors…… but what was Haleigh doing while Crystal was in bed?

It certainly makes you wonder, doesn't it? IMO, she didn't care what Haleigh was doing while she stayed in bed. I wonder who was feeding her breakfast, getting her dressed, and watching over her during those times? What about Rj? It is more of an issue for his young age. At least now she has Chad to push the kids off on when she wants to stay in bed, imo. Oh wait...didn't we figure out she had a bf at that time living with her?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Once again, as someone who has worked in school offices, the only thing that it normally takes to change an unexcused absence into an EXCUSED absence is a simple one minute phone call from a parent. That's it, most often no questions are asked, although in a case where multiple absences have occurred there may be more scrutiny after the fact. The school just needs to be notified, they need to know from the parent that the child is under THEIR care, that they didn't get lost between the bus and the building or fall asleep on the bus, etc. The school needs to KNOW the whereabouts of the child during school hours. It is for the safety of the child!

If Ron was too tired to take her to school, if Haleigh was tired from being up too late, the school just needed a simple phone call. Often, the school counselor or another staff member could help arrange for a backup ride with another parent --- whether that would be clear to school or just to the bus stop. It is so simple, just make a call, that's it.

Having raised children who attended school, I am well aware of what is expected. I don't agree with the unexcused absences being on her record either, but I do know how they can happen. I also know it can be the fault of the school when a parent sends a note or calls and it isn't properly documented. If Ronald sent a note and Haleigh lost it...could be another reason. I would suspect if Ronald failed to notify them in a timely fashion, this would also be a reason for them to call it unexcused. It still does not mean she did not have a valid reason for missing. (If a child is tardy, there are times they are also counted as an unexcused absence because the daily report from the teacher had already gone in and was never changed to reflect the student was present.)

LOL I have never heard of a school making backup arrangements to get students back and forth! That is some extra mile! Wow~

 

[Sissy1355]

Once again, as someone who has worked in school offices, the only thing that it normally takes to change an unexcused absence into an EXCUSED absence is a simple one minute phone call from a parent. That's it, most often no questions are asked, although in a case where multiple absences have occurred there may be more scrutiny after the fact.

Snipped and BBM

It must be different in your state b/c I know in mine a parent note or call DOES NOT turn an unexcused absence into an excused absence. They WILL allow the child to make up the work if there is a note or call, but the absence will still be unexcused. The only way I know of to get a child excused is a doctor's note, verifiable death in the family, having to be at court proceedings etc., and then some sort of documentation is required.

 

[snookie]

Actually, yes. I think Teresa should have kept up with what was happening in the day to day life of her grands and been there to help when needed to get Haleigh to school if it was a problem. However, we don't know that she didn't...do we? We don't know why Haleigh missed school tho and for all we know...there could be valid reasons instead of someone not wanting to get out of bed to care for the children like Crystal admits to doing.

There is no reason Crystal has for repeatedly not taking her children to the doctors. None.

According to the schools, kids can miss as much time as needed as long as they have a written doctor's excuse. Absences and tardies are considered excused with a doctor's excuse.

If Haleigh was ill enough to miss that much school, I am wondering why she was not taken to the doctor by her custodial parent? She would've been excused with the doctor's okay. All of the unexcused absences and tardies tell me that there was not a valid legal reason for her not being in attendence.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

According to the schools, kids can miss as much time as needed as long as they have a written doctor's excuse. Absences and tardies are considered excused with a doctor's excuse.

If Haleigh was ill enough to miss that much school, I am wondering why she was not taken to the doctor by her custodial parent? She would've been excused with the doctor's okay. All of the unexcused absences and tardies tell me that there was not a valid legal reason for her not being in attendence.

I disagree. If a child has a fever, you aren't supposed to rush them to the doctor. An upset stomach? Kids can't be taken to the doctor for a note every time they are ill and a doctor would not expect it either. It is ridiculous to expect a parent to have that type of verification to make it excused only to satisfy the school. Some parents would go broke trying to provide it!

As far as I know, Haleigh was taken to the doctor when she needed to go...unless she was with Crystal.

 

[atherella]

Snipped and BBM

It must be different in your state b/c I know in mine a parent note or call DOES NOT turn an unexcused absence into an excused absence. They WILL allow the child to make up the work if there is a note or call, but the absence will still be unexcused. The only way I know of to get a child excused is a doctor's note, verifiable death in the family, having to be at court proceedings etc., and then some sort of documentation is required.

Same here.

And I'd like to state that not every parent takes a child to the doctor for every little sniffle or tummy ache that a child gets that may cause a child to miss a day of school. We KNOW that with HaLeigh's Turner's Syndrome she would have absences associated with that, I'm sure she had regular childhood illnesses as well that do NOT require a trip to the doctor. IMO, those would NOT be excused absences.


ETA - I see SS was typing the same thing I was...

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I really don't understand the argument here. Crystal made critical mistakes in not providing health care to the children by her own admissions.

Now the finger is being pointed towards everyone except Crystal for this neglect. This has nothing to do with Haleigh's school record or Ronald's care of his children. The obvious smokescreen to try and cover Crystal isn't working for me here. I can see very clearly that people want to make excuses for Crystal's behavior and turn it all back onto Ronald so it isn't her fault. BS!

 

[snookie]

I disagree. If a child has a fever, you aren't supposed to rush them to the doctor. An upset stomach? Kids can't be taken to the doctor for a note every time they are ill and a doctor would not expect it either. It is ridiculous to expect a parent to have that type of verification to make it excused only to satisfy the school. Some parents would go broke trying to provide it!

As far as I know, Haleigh was taken to the doctor when she needed to go...unless she was with Crystal.

SS, I do agree with you that it is a bit ridiculous, but those are the rules.

 

[CrankyPants]

I was checking the florida board of education website to get the "last word" on excused vs unexcused absences. They state that it is up to the counties to establish attendance policies. I will gladly research the matter so we can put speculation to rest if someone can provide me the name of the county in which Haleigh resided and attended school.


ETA: scratch that request...must have had a brain cramp! I'm off to check into PUTNAM COUNTY rules!

 

[mysticrose]

We do not know for certain all the reason's Crystal missed appointments unless you are first hand related to them. To sit here and say it is because she would not get out of bed for every appointment is in bad taste..because we do not know..jmo of course

 

[mysticrose]

I wonder how many appointments Crystal did make for those kids ? Do we know?
I wonder how many she had missed while her and Ron were together ?
I wonder how many Ron has missed since he and Crystal have been apart ?

Does this help find Haleigh ? if yes then please explain to me how?

 

[CrankyPants]

For some reason, I cannot open the pdf file that contains the attendance policy. If anyone would like to see it, it is here: http://www.putnamschools.org/board/board_policy/Policy Chapter 5.00/Policy 5.04.pdf

ETA: ok, got it open (I'm having a bad day!) Here is the policy:

VII. Absences from School

A. Absences may be determined by school officials to be "excused" or "unexcused" and such notation shall be entered into the student's computer record within two (2) school days. Excused absences will allow the student to make up any schoolwork missed during the absence. Unexcused absences may give the student a failing grade for all schoolwork missed due to the absence. Excused absences shall include those absences which result from:

1. Illness of the student
2. Illness in the family requires the student's presence in the home,
3. Death in the family, or
4. Court appearances and/or legal matters
5. Extraordinary circumstances approved by the principal, in advance
when possible,
6. Sickness or injury attested to by a licensed practicing physician, or
7. Absence for religious instruction or holiday as provided for F.S. 232.0225.

Parent notes are sufficient documentation for absences due to short-term illness in #1 and #2 above. The principal shall require independent verification of the circumstance or condition resulting in extended, excused absences beyond four (4) days within a thirty (30) day grading period (six weeks), and beyond five (5) days in a forty-five (45) day grading period (nine weeks). The parent/guardian may secure a waiver of this policy by making the condition known to the principal in advance and the principal approving the parent/guardian's request.


B. Unexcused absences or tardies - Shopping trips, pleasure trips, vacations, appointments, or other avoidable absences shall be deemed to be unexcused absences or tardies. Any suspension from school shall be an unexcused absence unless the suspension was made in error or the principal directs that such absence be excused.
------------------------------


I found this to be interesting (bbm):

VI. Schools shall abide by the following policy and procedures for handling non-attendance of students of compulsory age.

A. When a student is absent, the school shall contact the parents and as soon as practical after learning of the absence, the parents shall explain the absences. Failure to make valid explanation shall be evidence of consent of the parent. If the absence is an excused absence the school shall provide opportunities for the student to make up assigned work and not receive an academic penalty unless the work is not made up in the time specified by the school

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Maybe you missed me saying that there is NO EXCUSE for missing scheduled doctor appointments for a child. There were too many people who could have taken the children if Crystal was not available for whatever the reason so it really doesn't matter what her excuses were for the neglect. Wanting to stay in bed was the one she came up with...not anyone else.

ETA: We have already been through all of the school absence issues. It was covered a very long time ago and hashed out, imo. It was only brought up here because the issue of Crystal neglecting to take the child to the doctor came up because of the court hearing.

When something comes up about Crystal's neglect, it has become standard to bring up something that sounds bad about Ronald. When school absences are the best anyone can do to say he is unfit...well...it really doesn't make much of a case when DCF evidently did not classify it as neglect or abuse on his part.

 

[Gracenote]

My goodness I don't think that the families (or "sides" as they are called by some) argue as much as some people here. It's fascinating and troubling at the same time.

 

[nomoresorrow]

Regardless of my own opinions and views about Ron and Misty and what I happen to think they're involvement is in HaLeigh's disappearance, I for one have to maintain objectivity and not place blame and find fault for everything else that has ever occurred between Ron and Crystal based upon that one factor alone (again - who I happen to think is involvedand/or responsible for HaLeigh's disappearance), with that said, after reading thru all of the court documents available, I can understand the courts decision to award primary custody to Ron based upon the supports that he had available to him at that time and the assurrances that he gave to the magistrate.

Supports & Assurances;
Adequate housing that included his mother assisting in the care of the children,
Gainfully employed w/the liklihood of healthcare benefits available in the near future,
Presented himself as the pro-active parent in regards to the children's health & healthcare issues,
Demonstrated awareness of the need for daycare in the near future,
Demonstrated a willingness to adhere to the court's requests.

Although I do feel, in my own opinion, that RC's is the type of guy to say what he's gotta say to get away with something and to get what he wants and my heart goes out to Crystal because, again in my opinion, she didn't either know how or have it in her to fight - I could give a zillion reasons why I think that was but it doesn't change the fact that the magistrate had to go with what he had to go on at that time. RC's demonstration and presentation came across as an actively participating parent and sadly, in my opinion, Crystal came across as flat. Yes I happen to personally feel that Crystal was beaten down from RC's (alleged) threats - I know how that is because I've been there. An angry parent who makes threats to move, taking your child(ren) away from you will very often attempt to increase any feelings that you may already have of inadequancies, oftentimes adding that "no one will believe anything you say anyway" - unfortunately when there are already deep seeded feelings of inadequacy, the person will succumb to these messages but occassionally it brings out the fighter and the voice that finally speaks out and says, "No, I'm not any of those things, I'm a good mother. . ." I wish that Crystal could have found that voice as I did many years ago.

Conclusion;
Just because Crystal didn't do everything that she should have done or could have done to get primary residency of the kids does not make her the more likely suspect in HaLeigh's disappearance -
IMO

 

[Whisperer]

We have more endorsements for Ron's superb parenting skills. How demeaning for hiim that the DCF suggest he take parenting classes!

 

[mysticrose]

I really don't understand the argument here. Crystal made critical mistakes in not providing health care to the children by her own admissions.

Now the finger is being pointed towards everyone except Crystal for this neglect. This has nothing to do with Haleigh's school record or Ronald's care of his children. The obvious smokescreen to try and cover Crystal isn't working for me here. I can see very clearly that people want to make excuses for Crystal's behavior and turn it all back onto Ronald so it isn't her fault. BS!

There apparently have been alot of critical mistakes made by people or Haleigh would not be missing.
As for finger pointing it goes both ways..I read it on the forum just about everyday..

 

[Whisperer]

Crystal fought for those kids! Ron misrepresented the facts....and I am being politically correct when I use the term "misrepresent"