CT- Annie Le, missing from Yale, thread #5 FOUND DECEASED

[Toi]

What the NBC reporter said is that the perp worked in the "very same research lab" as Annie so that could probably mean the lab area where she was killed, thus an Animal Resource guy.

Tks labrat was a lil hectic around here at the moment.

 

[Labrat]

Unfortunately I've been schooled on this subject for way to long. I slept next to my ex for 8 years and no clue! He went to the Dr b/c he felt depressed and never came home from the Dr visit. So 5 hours later when I started looking for him I found that he had been committed w/o me knowing. The Dr told him that if he didn't go w/o calling me or anyone else he would have the FBI at my house within the hour to pick him up! I honestly never had a clue. He was stalking a woman and was going to kill her. I wont elaborate on the details of what he was going to do to this woman. It makes me sick still. The perp might not have PS it was just a thought of mine. With the 15 yrs I shared with my ex I guess I look for it in killers. I kept telling the Dr you don't know him I do tho. The Dr told me "Lady you have no idea who you sleep next to every night."

Wow. It must have all been so painful for you. No wonder you look for it in people. I'm always looking for personality disorders for a similar reason. Once you've been burned, I think your perception of people is forever changed.

 

[postdoc]

Labrat, Gene and others have already covered most of this, but I thought I would throw my hat in the ring!

As has been reported, the basement of Amistad appears to be a large animal facility housing rodents for research studies. The facility would be shared by many investigators, and is most likely subdivided into "suites". Anton Bennett's mice possibly occupied one or two suites.

There would also be seperate "procedure rooms". In Annie's case, given that she was working on diabetes, this is where she would take her mice to do such experiments as monitoring blood glucose etc.

The animal facility is staffed by superivsors and animal/lab techs. There are also vet/vet techs that rotate through all the univerity animal facilities. The animal/lab techs look after the rodents on a day-to-day basis. They change, food/water, monitor general animal well bieing, cage overcrowding etc. It is a tough job, and not particularly glamorous.

Lab/animal techs are usually assigned to particular suites, so it is more than likely that Annie interacted with the same person/tech on a regular basis. The lab techs listed on the Bennett homepage are different to these lab/animal techs. While the Bennett lab techs may be involved in animal studies - like Annie, they would travel back and forth from Amistad to their actual lab space. By contrast, the lab/animal techs spend all of their time in the animal facility. It is not clear who the media are actually referring to. In fact, given the facility is shared by multiple investigators, the "lab tech" referred to in the media could be from another research lab all together. It really is impossible to tell.

From what I have read, Annie had recently decided on her PhD thesis topic. This suggests that she was early in her graduate career, and had probably been working in the Bennett lab for less that 6 months.

With this is mind, it seems surprising that she would make an impression on a lab/animal tech in such a short time - but certainly not impossible. Come to think of it, if her project was heavily reliant on mouse studies, she could be spending several hours per day in the animal facility. It is unlikely that she would see or interact with the lab/animal tech outside the animal facility - the techs are usually finished by 4-5pm, while Annie sounds like she typically worked late.

The animal facilities will have large autoclaves for sterilizing waste as well as large racks of rodent cages/bedding prior to use. Certainly large enough for an adult human. I can't imagine what would happen if you autoclaved a body, but it may explain why an autopsy was required to positively identify the body. I am worried that if autocalving was involved, forensic evidence may be compromised.

As someone else pointed out, autoclaving a body may generate a large amount of extra steam due to the body containing a lot of water. This may have overwhelmed the built-in exhaust system, and triggered the alarm. Once the animal facility was emptied of staff, the suspect would have ample time to dispose of the body in the manner described. This link mentions strategies to deal with the generation of liquid (steam?) when autoclaving animal carcasses.

http://tempico.gostrategic.com/dynamic.php?pg=Applications/Infectious

Let's hope that authorities can make an arrest shortly. RIP Annie Le.

 

[Labrat]

What the NBC reporter said is that the perp worked in the "very same research lab" as Annie so that could probably mean the lab area where she was killed, thus an Animal Resource guy.

Thanks, Chili- I heard that later also. The media is causing so much confusion calling everything a "lab"

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Technician= working for a salary
Graduate Student= working for a degree (masters or PH.D)
Post-doc= Has already earned a Ph.D.(doctorate)

A technician is usually (though not necessarily) a university gradute. They may have a master's degree. They are often, though not always put on publications, either as an author, or with "special thanks". But they are employees, working a fixed number of hours for a salary and benefits. They are not working on a degree. They do not decide their own projects. They work on the projects given to them by a professor or a post-doc or someone else in the lab. Sometimes the term lab technician maybe used generically to mean any salaried employee working in a lab. For example, an animal technician maybe called a lab technician, even though they may not be doing research, but just responsible for taking care of animals.

A Graduate student is always a university graduate. They are working independantly but with guidance from their advisor, the professor whose lab they are in. They earn no salary. They may or may not have a stipend, a very small monthly allowance, which may either come from the department, or their professor's grant or somewhere else. But they are working for a degree, not for a salary. (As an example, I had a stipend for most of my graduate work from my professor's grant. But one year, my professor lost his grant. My stipend stopped during that period, but I kept working.)

No one would use the term technician in relationship to Annie. It makes no sense at all. She was a graduate student.

OMGosh, Gene, thank you...does this mean I could be on the right track then? Now, we know that 10 Amistad Street Building houses the sensitive...let me clarify...the most sensitive cutting edge experiments and technology that Yale offers. This building is considered in the top 3 best research facilities in the entire world.

I've found last night that it's comprised of 3 research programs. Each of these programs has investigators and researchers. It is very secure and not like a "lab" that any normal layperson woud think of. I'm not quite sure but I'm thinking it would make sense if Annie was part of The Interdepartmental Program in Vascular Biology and Therapeutics...again, not sure. What I do know from reading this and some other articles about this cutting edge state of the art facility is that contrary to belief - these departments interact with one another, share ideas, data, etc. The 3 research programs housed at Amistad are The Interdepartmental Program in Vascular Biology and Therapeutics, Human and Translational Immunology Program, and Yale Stem Cell Center. Each program has investigators in charge and researchers that work under them. I am finding that although this is a huge building as far as square footage is concerned, the number of people with access if extremely limited. In other words, nowhere have I found that thousands of students or faculty have access to all floors and rooms of this building. That in and of itself narrows things down a bit.

This is just one link with some snippets following:

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...=/images?q=10+Amistad+Street+Yale&gbv=2&hl=en

Quote
Pober, head of the Human and Translational Immunology Program and vice chair of Immunobiology, says the opening of the $88.6 million building is a milestone for science at the medical school. Not only does it provide much-needed lab space for several dozen investigators, but it will enable them to collaborate in ways that will produce results greater than the sum of the parts.

Unlike traditional biomedical research teams—often composed of members of one discipline working in a single animal model—the three research programs housed in the 120,000-square-foot building draw from multiple departments and have shifted their focus solely from rodent studies to better understanding what works—and doesn’t work—in humans.

“The challenge is not to abandon animal research,” Pober says, “but to assemble other individuals who can be a bridge between people who study disease models and clinicians who take care of patients.”
Unquote

So now I'm back to square one. I do believe now that in this building, and considering it's occupants' responsibilities, a lab tech would have more duties/responsibilities than your average "everyday" lab tech by definition...including working with small rodents such as the mice Annie was using. I'm truly thinking that this term is being used loosely just as LabRat has suggested and is just a classification used by a layperson that may really not know the difference.

 

[Kat]

Welcome to Websleuths postdoc, great first post.

To others on the thread that are caught up (I had to leave yesterday afternoon and haven't been back until now) no suspect named is what I'm getting? Correct? Thanks in advance.

 

[Labrat]

Labrat, Gene and others have already covered most of this, but I thought I would throw my hat in the ring!

As has been reported, the basement of Amistad appears to be a large animal facility housing rodents for research studies. The facility would be shared by many investigators, and is most likely subdivided into "suites". Anton Bennett's mice possibly occupied one or two suites.

There would also be seperate "procedure rooms". In Annie's case, given that she was working on diabetes, this is where she would take her mice to do such experiments as monitoring blood glucose etc.

The animal facility is staffed by superivsors and animal/lab techs. There are also vet/vet techs that rotate through all the univerity animal facilities. The animal/lab techs look after the rodents on a day-to-day basis. They change, food/water, monitor general animal well bieing, cage overcrowding etc. It is a tough job, and not particularly glamorous.

Lab/animal techs are usually assigned to particular suites, so it is more than likely that Annie interacted with the same person/tech on a regular basis. The lab techs listed on the Bennett homepage are different to these lab/animal techs. While the Bennett lab techs may be involved in animal studies - like Annie, they would travel back and forth from Amistad to their actual lab space. By contrast, the lab/animal techs spend all of their time in the animal facility. It is not clear who the media are actually referring to. In fact, given the facility is shared by multiple investigators, the "lab tech" referred to in the media could be from another research lab all together. It really is impossible to tell.

From what I have read, Annie had recently decided on her PhD thesis topic. This suggests that she was early in her graduate career, and had probably been working in the Bennett lab for less that 6 months.

With this is mind, it seems surprising that she would make an impression on a lab/animal tech in such a short time - but certainly not impossible. Come to think of it, if her project was heavily reliant on mouse studies, she could be spending several hours per day in the animal facility. It is unlikely that she would see or interact with the lab/animal tech outside the animal facility - the techs are usually finished by 4-5pm, while Annie sounds like she typically worked late.

The animal facilities will have large autoclaves for sterilizing waste as well as large racks of rodent cages/bedding prior to use. Certainly large enough for an adult human. I can't imagine what would happen if you autoclaved a body, but it may explain why an autopsy was required to positively identify the body. I am worried that if autocalving was involved, forensic evidence may be compromised.

As someone else pointed out, autoclaving a body may generate a large amount of extra steam due to the body containing a lot of water. This may have overwhelmed the built-in exhaust system, and triggered the alarm. Once the animal facility was emptied of staff, the suspect would have ample time to dispose of the body in the manner described. This link mentions strategies to deal with the generation of liquid (steam?) when autoclaving animal carcasses.

http://tempico.gostrategic.com/dynamic.php?pg=Applications/Infectious

Let's hope that authorities can make an arrest shortly. RIP Annie Le.

Welcome, Postdoc! The whole autoclave thing makes me so upset- I can barely stand to think of it as a possibility. I so hope that is not the case. I've always been afraid of those autoclaves- I watch too many horror movies, I guess.

Jeez, Animal facilities are all exactly the same, aren't they? You could be describing mine.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

postdoc, as well as others I may have missed last night, WELCOME TO WEBSLEUTHS! It's a very addictive site! Thank you for this indepth post. It's so nice to be able to understand better when people such as yourself, labrat, & gene post...makes it more enlightening.

Good morning everyone.

 

[Toi]

Welcome to Websleuths postdoc, great first post.

To others on the thread that are caught up (I had to leave yesterday afternoon and haven't been back until now) no suspect named is what I'm getting? Correct? Thanks in advance.

Not yet. Reports saying 3 today tho.

 

[Labrat]

OMGosh, Gene, thank you...does this mean I could be on the right track then? Now, we know that 10 Amistad Street Building houses the sensitive...let me clarify...the most sensitive cutting edge experiments and technology that Yale offers. This building is considered in the top 3 best research facilities in the entire world.

I've found last night that it's comprised of 3 research programs. Each of these programs has investigators and researchers. It is very secure and not like a "lab" that any normal layperson woud think of. I'm not quite sure but I'm thinking it would make sense if Annie was part of The Interdepartmental Program in Vascular Biology and Therapeutics...again, not sure. What I do know from reading this and some other articles about this cutting edge state of the art facility is that contrary to belief - these departments interact with one another, share ideas, data, etc. The 3 research programs housed at Amistad are The Interdepartmental Program in Vascular Biology and Therapeutics, Human and Translational Immunology Program, and Yale Stem Cell Center. Each program has investigators in charge and researchers that work under them. I am finding that although this is a huge building as far as square footage is concerned, the number of people with access if extremely limited. In other words, nowhere have I found that thousands of students or faculty have access to all floors and rooms of this building. That in and of itself narrows things down a bit.

This is just one link with some snippets following:

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...=/images?q=10+Amistad+Street+Yale&gbv=2&hl=en

Quote
Pober, head of the Human and Translational Immunology Program and vice chair of Immunobiology, says the opening of the $88.6 million building is a milestone for science at the medical school. Not only does it provide much-needed lab space for several dozen investigators, but it will enable them to collaborate in ways that will produce results greater than the sum of the parts.

Unlike traditional biomedical research teams—often composed of members of one discipline working in a single animal model—the three research programs housed in the 120,000-square-foot building draw from multiple departments and have shifted their focus solely from rodent studies to better understanding what works—and doesn’t work—in humans.

“The challenge is not to abandon animal research,” Pober says, “but to assemble other individuals who can be a bridge between people who study disease models and clinicians who take care of patients.”
Unquote

So now I'm back to square one. I do believe now that in this building, and considering it's occupants' responsibilities, a lab tech would have more duties/responsibilities and your average "everyday" lab tech by definition...including working with small rodents such as the mice Annie was using.

Annie was not involved in any of the research labs housed in that building, as far as has been reported- she went there for the animal facility. Very often, your mice are housed in a different building than the one your lab is in. Animal space is ALWAYS at a premium and the animal facility is a separate entity- you have to take the space they can give you, even if it's on the opposite side of the campus. Since she was in Dr. Bennett's lab in the other building- those are the programs/labs you would need to look at. She is in Dr. Bennett's lab because her research is a part of what he is doing.

 

[milton99]

question: does anyone know what year Annie was in at Yale? Was this her first year?

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2009/09/09/news/new_haven/doc4aa81466a1c69280934081.txt

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2009/09/post_479.php

These articles report that Annie was a third-year doctoral student.

 

[milton99]

I thought this was a good article:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/200...is_gonna_be_the_gotcha_that_traps_killer.html

 

[Gene]

OMGosh, Gene, thank you...does this mean I could be on the right track then? Now, we know that 10 Amistad Street Building houses the sensitive...let me clarify...the most sensitive cutting edge experiments and technology that Yale offers. This building is considered in the top 3 best research facilities in the entire world.

I've found last night that it's comprised of 3 research programs. Each of these programs has investigators and researchers. It is very secure and not like a "lab" that any normal layperson woud think of. I'm not quite sure but I'm thinking it would make sense if Annie was part of The Interdepartmental Program in Vascular Biology and Therapeutics...again, not sure. What I do know from reading this and some other articles about this cutting edge state of the art facility is that contrary to belief - these departments interact with one another, share ideas, data, etc. The 3 research programs housed at Amistad are The Interdepartmental Program in Vascular Biology and Therapeutics, Human and Translational Immunology Program, and Yale Stem Cell Center. Each program has investigators in charge and researchers that work under them. I am finding that although this is a huge building as far as square footage is concerned, the number of people with access if extremely limited. In other words, nowhere have I found that thousands of students or faculty have access to all floors and rooms of this building. That in and of itself narrows things down a bit.

This is just one link with some snippets following:

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...=/images?q=10+Amistad+Street+Yale&gbv=2&hl=en

Quote
Pober, head of the Human and Translational Immunology Program and vice chair of Immunobiology, says the opening of the $88.6 million building is a milestone for science at the medical school. Not only does it provide much-needed lab space for several dozen investigators, but it will enable them to collaborate in ways that will produce results greater than the sum of the parts.

Unlike traditional biomedical research teams—often composed of members of one discipline working in a single animal model—the three research programs housed in the 120,000-square-foot building draw from multiple departments and have shifted their focus solely from rodent studies to better understanding what works—and doesn’t work—in humans.

“The challenge is not to abandon animal research,” Pober says, “but to assemble other individuals who can be a bridge between people who study disease models and clinicians who take care of patients.”
Unquote

So now I'm back to square one. I do believe now that in this building, and considering it's occupants' responsibilities, a lab tech would have more duties/responsibilities than your average "everyday" lab tech by definition...including working with small rodents such as the mice Annie was using. I'm truly thinking that this term is being used loosely just as LabRat has suggested and is just a classification used by a layperson that may really not know the difference.

I think that at this stage, when we hear that the suspect is a lab tech, all we really know is:

* They were working in the research area (not administrative).
* They are not a student (like Annie)
* They are not an academic (like a Prof. or a post doc)
* They are not a maintence person or someone else.
* They are an employee, working regular hours somehow related to research. We do not know if they are working in Annie's group, in another research group, taking care of animals, etc.
* I do not think we can say anything about their responsibilities whether they are more or less important.

Postdoc, I can not really imagine that the killer would first put Annie in an autoclave AND THEN move her to the wall. The thought would digust most people, probably even most killers. I think that the autoclave idea was suggested by someone early in the discussion before we knew she was finally found in the wall. I think the autoclave idea should be put to rest for now.

 

[milton99]

The agonizing wait is close to an end (I think):

AUTOPSY RESULTS EXPECTED ON YALE GRAD STUDENT AFTER 3PM TODAY

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j3Z7m0uROG-_CM8GzpRCqE2M9IbwD9ANPM3G0

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Annie was not involved in any of the research labs housed in that building, as far as has been reported- she went there for the animal facility. Very often, your mice are housed in a different building than the one your lab is in. Animal space is ALWAYS at a premium and the animal facility is a separate entity- you have to take the space they can give you, even if it's on the opposite side of the campus. Since she was in Dr. Bennett's lab in the other building- those are the programs/labs you would need to look at. She is in Dr. Bennett's lab because her research is a part of what he is doing.

Good morning LabRat. Ok, I believe I have it down now. Annie's roommate, at least I think it was her roommate, specifically said she went to Amistad to do some experiments. She specifically said that's where she spent most of her time. That's why I'm so focussed on Amistad and the area she was in. I'm getting that her mice were probably kept at Amistad, not at a different facility. That's what's confusing. She spent sooo much time at Amistad, and the area/space she did her experiments was in the basement. I know Annie's office is in Sterling, but she did most of her work at Amistad. Since I've found that this facility houses 3 main research programs, I've found that access is limited. Annie may not have been an official part of the Vascular Biology and Therapeutics program, but she would have been working in that area since each program is designated an area. That program is housed in 2 floors. Even though these 3 programs have their designated areas, they still interact, but not everyone in that building has access to each others rooms or floors. They have to have clearance. That's why I mentioned the program itself, b/c wouldn't that narrow it down as to who would have access vs who wouldn't? Or am I offbase? Again, my pondering mind is in your debt!

Slightly off topic, but I do wonder if there were finger scans or eye scans before entering certain rooms. If not, I certainly question why considering the funding that's gone into this facility. There is great interest in finding a cure for Cancer. With these programs interacting with one another, Yale hopes to expedite vaccines & cures for major diseases. Alot of scientists believe that if a cure for AIDS is found, then a cure for Cancer is found, and the like. Some scientists believe that AIDS is hyped b/c of lower immune systems and that's why it's more prevalent in other 3rd world countries. I'm not sure where I stand on that b/c it's such a hugely exploded disease now. With the technology housed there, and the data supplied, shouldn't it be more contained than just card swipes? For crying out loud, we have premium annual passes to Disney World and my whole family has to swipe their palm in order to enter the park - all of their parks!

 

[MissJames]

Unfortunately I've been schooled on this subject for way to long. I slept next to my ex for 8 years and no clue! He went to the Dr b/c he felt depressed and never came home from the Dr visit. So 5 hours later when I started looking for him I found that he had been committed w/o me knowing. The Dr told him that if he didn't go w/o calling me or anyone else he would have the FBI at my house within the hour to pick him up! I honestly never had a clue. He was stalking a woman and was going to kill her. I wont elaborate on the details of what he was going to do to this woman. It makes me sick still. The perp might not have PS it was just a thought of mine. With the 15 yrs I shared with my ex I guess I look for it in killers. I kept telling the Dr you don't know him I do tho. The Dr told me "Lady you have no idea who you sleep next to every night."

That's chilling.I'm so glad you are okay.
There was a serial rapist here many years ago.They had a profile and artist rendering,but it took many rapes before a tip came that led to him.He was in a car chase and wrecked .He now has seious brain injuries.
He was a family man,well liked by neighbors,and very helpful in the neighborhood.His wife was clueless.
When I was a volunteer with People Against Rape they told us the Holidays were usually the slowest shifts because most rapists were family men .

 

[milton99]

What a lack of sensitivity:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iradtaJw064cX37-hAchMgxafizAD9ANNV501

 

[Labrat]

Good morning Ev1!

actually a male--page 4 lower left corner

http://radonc.urmc.rochester.edu/newsletters/Apr2008newsletter.pdf

Oh wow- you know that may be a common name- that page is not even from Yale. We really should be more careful with things like this, you know?

 

[milton99]

Sad ... her passing came wayyyyyy too soon, but in a sense, without knowing her personally, it seems like she left this world doing what she loved to do. That can't be said for many, if not most people. RIP, Annie.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/slideshow/ALeqM5j3Z7m0uROG-_CM8GzpRCqE2M9IbwD9ANPM3G0?index=0

 

[Harmony 2]

Oh wow- you know that may be a common name- that page is not even from Yale. We really should be more careful with things like this, you know?

That is why I deleted it- after I contemplated. According to the XXX theory the Z iinitialed person had attended Rochester with Annie. At any rate it is a mute point...