CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, deceased/not found, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #66

[Born2BWild]

Assuming most have read the 2020 Vanity Fair article, but just in case somebody missed it and is interested, this gives a great feel for what Jennifer was really all about. I cried.

rom the Magazine
November 2020 Issue

Fates and Furies​

When Jennifer Farber disappeared in 2019, suspicion immediately centered on her handsome and manipulative husband, Fotis Dulos, and press coverage almost exclusively painted her as a missing suburban mom. But reducing the 50-year-old’s life to a familiar tabloid trope missed so much of her story.

Jennifer Farber, Fotis Dulos, and the True Scope of a Tragedy

When the story of a Fairfield County woman’s disappearance went national in 2019, press coverage almost exclusively painted her as a missing mom. But reducing the 50-year-old’s life to a familiar tabloid trope missed so much of her story.

www.vanityfair.com

I’m so happy you posted the link because I wanted to but was unable. It’s so good. I read it again last night. It’s also includes an audible version.

 

[afitzy]

Petu seemed full of poopie, but if there are two elements of her story I believe. She took an Uber to Logan is one.

"That was me,"* who was in a rush that day, is the second. I believe that because Petu was doing Michelle a favor, giving her an alibi, but she had to catch a flight. But for inseparable friends... there are always a few minutes.

I think she preplanned making that point for linguistic reasons. And I can't for the life of me figure out why. But I believe it.

The reason I think it was preplanned is her wording. The exact quote on the stand, "That was me," I found that especially fluent for her obviously non-native English. It is a grammatical error so common in English that it has become more of an exception to the grammar rule than an error. But you don't get there by translating. If you translated that sentiment from Spanish, you would use "I," not "me."

That moment seemed very rehearsed to me. She couldn't wait to say she was the one who was hurrying that day. And she memorized it in English rather than translating that thought from Spanish.

But, of course, like all the defense witnesses, it added no substance to the defense. So what? What does that have to do with Michelle and her murdering activities? Petu confirmed she did her friend a favor of laying eyes on her on a very busy day when she could have gotten an earlier start to the airport.

Michelle is toast.

MOO.

You are correct per usual! It was a small point but there was something about the entire presentation that hit me as simply being off and I couldn't understand putting up a witness and using a good portion of their time on a story that made little sense. Petu did get in the issue that Mama T raised pretrial about LE and how they seemed to distrust the police, but beyond that I thought it was a nothing burger. I still laugh about mama T saying pretrial that her computer was 'taken' by LE. I do wonder if she were in Venezuela and her computer was 'taken' if she would have been treated with similar courtesy and respect. She also kept repeating over and over that she was a 'visitor' to 4JX. How were the LE folks to know who she was and why in the world would she think that her computer and electronics wouldn't be taken? Whole thing made no sense to me. Still doesn't as its simply registering nonsense LE complaints on par with MT being 'pulled' away from her daughter and taken to Litchfield. Were they expecting a call to arrange an appointment perhaps? Pure insanity but Schoenhorn Horned on about it for hours and wrote endless motions about it all too. Total waste of time ime as I saw them all treated with nothing but respect and courtesy by LE.

Originally I said I would have preferred to hear Petu in Spanish and I think I still feel that way. As you say, I don't know if it would make much difference but I'm still curious.

As with so much of what we have seen from the Defence it simply seemed manufactured and irrelevant. I keep thinking about the comments of the folks that attended the "Eat, Drink and be Merry Pre Murder Night Dinner" and I can't say much of that testimony had much credibility. Combine MT leaving her guests early to FD running out on the "Meat Run" and honestly it all just seemed quite strange. Mix in also the use of the word "HAPPY" by everyone and I just scratch my head and feel like I've entered the parallel universe.

The trial had little new news and so hearing these new stories has me wondering why use Petu if you were only going to put up 1 'character' witness? She simply added no value that I can see and as you point out she was full of 'poopie'....great phrase btw....lots of 'poopie' in this trial....

I think the computer-screen-gate incident was one of two things that kept MamaT off the stand. I think the other factor was when MT's cellphone records were allowed in (not the download of her cellphone or any info gleaned from that, as that was ruled inadmissible since no SW had been obtained prior to or immediately after seizure).

To this day, AFAIK, MT and gang have not identified which electronics belong to whom.To this day, AFAIK, MT and gang have not identified which electronics belong to whom.

IIRC Defence Counsel leaked the pretrial motion and video of Mama Troconis on the stand. There also was another pretrial hearing iirc where it was done on zoom with I believe Judge Blawie when Schoenhorn was complaining on speed about the electronics being seized to the Judge which I thought was total waste of time as why not simply resolve it with the State.

State said to simply give us description of electronics and we will see if they can be cleared for evidence. IIRC one of the many complains was Mama T computer being 'taken" and MT Daughter PC also being 'taken". I mean how hard can it be to ID a couple of computers and phones. Whole thing was just a waste of judicial time, Schoenhorn had no info on which items belonged to which person, family hadn't given him an inventory and it all just seemed like the people involved simply wanted to complain without doing any work. Made zero sense to me but it took up over an hr of Judges time at a time when trials were backed up over 2 years due to COVID.

I've watched a number of those leaked zoom calls and what always struck me was how little work Schoenhorn ever did to move the process forward, he complained endlessly about LE, he complained even more about the State prosecutors and so far as I could tell he never seemed proactive in issue resolution either. I think watching these convinced me his mandate from his client and her mother was simply to delay the proceedings as long as possible and so he just kept throwing one bomb after another and kicking the ball down the line without really doing much other that imo complain. Its always amusing to see folks complain about having to do work that could be accomplished easily just within the timeframe of their complaint. But, what stunned me was that each of these zoom calls had 3-5 people on it and also needed a Judge. Just seemed like a huge waste of time and you could often sense the frustration of anyone on the calls too as so often the issues being discussed weren't impt and should have been able to be resolved without the Judge. MOO

 

[Jmoose]

All possible IMO. I just speculate that she kept it as a pdf file and retrieved it from her cloud. I hope at some point we get to the bottom of it because that report is never going away. It will be brought up again and again in appeals yet to come. Sick.

I hope that every time that report is released, somebody gets arrested for contempt of court.

 

[Ruminations]

Thanks. I think Petu said she was in Avon. Seems closer to Bradley vs Logan. Idk, just seems odd with an international airport nearby. Folks in southern ct by default need nyc airports and I agree car service to airport is typical. But folks in southern ct don’t have a nearby international airport either as westchester is domestic or private. Very consfused about Petu story… perhaps
That is all it is?

These two ‘soul sisters’ have me quite confused.

Moo

Sometimes prices are better from less convenient airports. Or, the flights from Hartford to Heathrow would have laid over in Boston anyway, AND costed more, so why not have a double long Uber ride instead of a puddle-hop and an additional opportunity to lose luggage? Maybe she had flight miles from an airline that didn't fly out of Bradford. There are a number of plausible reasons. I suppose anyone who travels the north east to London would be able to narrow down the plausible reasons.

"I flew out of Boston." Believable.

"I was in a hurry." Believable.

"I have evidence that Michelle is innocent [that I won't specify]." Not believable.

MOO

 

[Diddian]

Sometimes prices are better from less convenient airports. Or, the flights from Hartford to Heathrow would have laid over in Boston anyway, AND costed more, so why not have a double long Uber ride instead of a puddle-hop and an additional opportunity to lose luggage? Maybe she had flight miles from an airline that didn't fly out of Bradford. There are a number of plausible reasons. I suppose anyone who travels the north east to London would be able to narrow down the plausible reasons.

"I flew out of Boston." Believable.

"I was in a hurry." Believable.

"I have evidence that Michelle is innocent [that I won't specify]." Not believable.

MOO

"I have evidence that Michelle is innocent..."

Must be one of those "in my mind" things that MT so frequently referred to when LE produced evidence that what she had previously told them was a lie.

"In my mind, FD and I showered together..."
In my mind, FD was in the office because..."
"In my mind, KM was in the office and urged me to pick up the incoming call on FD's phone..."
"In my mind, the black Suburban was there at 4JC..."

 

[afitzy]

"I have evidence that Michelle is innocent..."

Must be one of those "in my mind" things that MT so frequently referred to when LE produced evidence that what she had previously told them was a lie.

"In my mind, FD and I showered together..."
In my mind, FD was in the office because..."
"In my mind, KM was in the office and urged me to pick up the incoming call on FD's phone..."
"In my mind, the black Suburban was there at 4JC..."

Or the reference to phrase by MT of "USUALLY" and then attaching whatever was "USUALLY" to the truth....It simply seems like a tool of deception and way to create confusion.

I tried that MT "Usually" trick the other day and was immediately called on it by a sharp listener who spotted my BS statement as deceptive. I was asked, "Did you do that" Yes or No! So, I wasn't as successful as MT but I do think sharp listeners hear "usually" and immediately think BS.

I don't sense that MT feels comfortable in the world of yes/no answers as I wonder if LE actually counted the number of times she said yes or no to anything?

MOO

 

[Nieves]

The jury should not discuss the case and should not be informed (or misinformed) by the media. But the strategies of the media did enter the trial, in the hands of the defense. The time dedicated to non-essential topics nor directly related to murder and complicity, fake news, lack of respect for authorities and rules, the inclusion of a vision that is sometimes naive, sometimes grotesquely happy and without commitment, of the way of life of the murderer and the accused, and some of their witness friends, have flooded the senses of the attendees and the jury, thanks to the defense plan. Even the defense 'specialists' contributed their ideas on communication, whether due to memory problems or bilingualism, to further distract the heads and thoughts of those who must issue their conclusion.

At the same time, the prosecution moved forward building the story of what happened, with an exceptionally broad and organized investigative effort, within what they could find, and with some of the agents, specialists and scientists, plus Jennifer's nanny and mother, among others, reporting as witnesses.

What will the jury do with all this?

 

[Ruminations]

"I have evidence that Michelle is innocent..."

Must be one of those "in my mind" things that MT so frequently referred to when LE produced evidence that what she had previously told them was a lie.

"In my mind, FD and I showered together..."
In my mind, FD was in the office because..."
"In my mind, KM was in the office and urged me to pick up the incoming call on FD's phone..."
"In my mind, the black Suburban was there at 4JC..."

Yeah. "In my mind, my moral friends got lucky and Jennifer just disappeared without their help."

I don't question Petu's loyalty to Michelle. Only a very good friend would make such an absurd declaration. I doubt Michelle mentioned the conspiracy to Petu; I imagine the most Michelle shared was homocidal fantasies. But while Petu may have put together information after the fact that was inculpating, I can't think of anything she'd have learned after the fact that would be exculpating. Except a sympathetic confession.

And, of course, that ship has sailed. Michelle burned down the whole port.

As I have said many times, Michelle's best defense was probably the truth with an explanation. She had the advantage of unspeakably evil co conspirators, and the negotiating power of her testimony against them. If Petu has information that Michelle is "innocent," it is that Michelle's crazy, abusive, serial cheater boyfriend couldn't be harnessed and Michelle got "caught up." That is not innocence, of course. But, it could have bought Michelle some mercy and Petu probably should have said that like 700 days earlier, to support Bowman in obtaining the best possible legal outcome. She's a good friend, but she didn't do the best thing she could have done for her friend.

MOO

 

[afitzy]

The jury should not discuss the case and should not be informed (or misinformed) by the media. But the strategies of the media did enter the trial, in the hands of the defense. The time dedicated to non-essential topics nor directly related to murder and complicity, fake news, lack of respect for authorities and rules, the inclusion of a vision that is sometimes naive, sometimes grotesquely happy and without commitment, of the way of life of the murderer and the accused, and some of their witness friends, have flooded the senses of the attendees and the jury, thanks to the defense plan. Even the defense 'specialists' contributed their ideas on communication, whether due to memory problems or bilingualism, to further distract the heads and thoughts of those who must issue their conclusion.

At the same time, the prosecution moved forward building the story of what happened, with an exceptionally broad and organized investigative effort, within what they could find, and with some of the agents, specialists and scientists, plus Jennifer's nanny and mother, among others, reporting as witnesses.

What will the jury do with all this?

Tough situation as you clearly explain. To me, the issue was that the State erred early in not doing motion to impose gag. Entire jury pool imo was tainted by defence driven Press full of so much disinformation and the State and Judge allowed it to happen. Its also a function of media landscape in CT with really only 2 corporate large players controlling virtually everything. We saw the "Gone Girl" juror from the Pattis era where that phrase was plastered all over the tri state area.

The Pattis experience with him circumventing the 'gag' via his motions containing non public information from the investigation was an eye opener. Schoenhorn did this too and then he took what he was doing an pushed it on to the Troconis Crew social media and MT social media.

State I think missed the boat on the social media impact in this case but I don't think they care much as they never tried to impose a gag. I saw motions by the State complaining of Schoenhorn leaking to the press important evidence information and NOT ONE JUDGE did anything about it. It could have been as easy as submitted exhibits under seal but no Judge ever reigned in the chaos that Schoenhorn has created for over 3 years. Why? IDK.

No answers from me on this as after the Pattis mess created in all the MSM in CT it was quite freeing to not read MSM or simply read it from the perspective of being disinformation as it became clear that none of the press were doing any investigation or reading court documents. Press would just wait for a feed from Schoenhorn and run it straight off to the website or article. Even the comments of the Troconis Crew were printed "as is" and never with any context or questions.

But, I can say its freeing to not have to read MSM as it makes it easy to do research and make own decisions.

The one thing that I do find bizarre in this entire Troconis trial is that somehow Schoenhorn planted early with the Press the idea that MT was a victim of persecution and LE misconduct. This imo mistruth then effectively stopped any investigation into ANYTHING about MT or even any Press dialog about whether anything she was saying about her innocence made any sense. Its been like living on a far away planet and its why WS I think for this case was valuable and helpful as most MSM wasn't used as source documents because we saw early on how it was largely defence driven misinformation. Its been a long odd ride here with the media but I don't think anything has changed and even journalists who long ago I did appreciate their work (such as Channel12 Marissa Alter), I don't waste time even reading as they are simply reposting as that is what all their peers are doing. But, it makes me sad to think that not one of the many journalists following this case ever took a couple of weeks to do some simple research to explain to the public who Michelle Troconis actually is and what she has done in her life. We just saw endless stories of MT "socialite" etc. which could not have been further from the truth as to who MT is and how she ended up in CT.

Sad state of affairs with the media as you point out and I do think it tainted the jury pool for the trail. But it was all avoidable too but State and Judges did zero to stop it.

MOO

 

[Megnut]

Sorry....off on a little tangent. I was wondering why we didn't hear where MT and Nicole were planning to go on May 25, since they still weren't allowed to be with the FD children without a supervisor. On May 25, MT was getting her hair done....FD was showing a house.

There was a text message from Dennis Puebla to Fotis presented in trial, but I can't find it. I believe it said...I'm using my memory...something like, "Have you spoken/okayed plans with Jennifer for this coming weekend?"

I would like to check the date and the time, and the content of the text message. Does anyone know where this appeared in the trial?
TIA...

Took me forever but I finally found the reference in a post by @afitzy! (during the cross examination of the realtor who showed 80 MS iirc)

Post in thread 'CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, deceased/not found, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #65' CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, deceased/not found, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #65

5:56

 

[Jmoose]

Yeah. "In my mind, my moral friends got lucky and Jennifer just disappeared without their help."

I don't question Petu's loyalty to Michelle. Only a very good friend would make such an absurd declaration. I doubt Michelle mentioned the conspiracy to Petu; I imagine the most Michelle shared was homocidal fantasies. But while Petu may have put together information after the fact that was inculpating, I can't think of anything she'd have learned after the fact that would be exculpating. Except a sympathetic confession.

And, of course, that ship has sailed. Michelle burned down the whole port.

As I have said many times, Michelle's best defense was probably the truth with an explanation. She had the advantage of unspeakably evil co conspirators, and the negotiating power of her testimony against them. If Petu has information that Michelle is "innocent," it is that Michelle's crazy, abusive, serial cheater boyfriend couldn't be harnessed and Michelle got "caught up." That is not innocence, of course. But, it could have bought Michelle some mercy and Petu probably should have said that like 700 days earlier, to support Bowman in obtaining the best possible legal outcome. She's a good friend, but she didn't do the best thing she could have done for her friend.

MOO

I like everything about what you’ve said here. And I still don’t understand why she (Petu) did not come forth with her so-called exculpating proof, when she was being questioned by a friendly defense attorney. If there was a day when that news was needed, it was Friday. What, really, did she assist with? All she really did was inform all of us that she doesn’t trust the police. Oh, and that Michi was happy. And why wouldn’t she have been?

 

[Nieves]

Tough situation as you clearly explain. To me, the issue was that the State erred early in not doing motion to impose gag. Entire jury pool imo was tainted by defence driven Press full of so much disinformation and the State and Judge allowed it to happen. Its also a function of media landscape in CT with really only 2 corporate large players controlling virtually everything. We saw the "Gone Girl" juror from the Pattis era where that phrase was plastered all over the tri state area.

The Pattis experience with him circumventing the 'gag' via his motions containing non public information from the investigation was an eye opener. Schoenhorn did this too and then he took what he was doing an pushed it on to the Troconis Crew social media and MT social media.

State I think missed the boat on the social media impact in this case but I don't think they care much as they never tried to impose a gag. I saw motions by the State complaining of Schoenhorn leaking to the press important evidence information and NOT ONE JUDGE did anything about it. It could have been as easy as submitted exhibits under seal but no Judge ever reigned in the chaos that Schoenhorn has created for over 3 years. Why? IDK.

No answers from me on this as after the Pattis mess created in all the MSM in CT it was quite freeing to not read MSM or simply read it from the perspective of being disinformation as it became clear that none of the press were doing any investigation or reading court documents. Press would just wait for a feed from Schoenhorn and run it straight off to the website or article. Even the comments of the Troconis Crew were printed "as is" and never with any context or questions.

But, I can say its freeing to not have to read MSM as it makes it easy to do research and make own decisions.

The one thing that I do find bizarre in this entire Troconis trial is that somehow Schoenhorn planted early with the Press the idea that MT was a victim of persecution and LE misconduct. This imo mistruth then effectively stopped any investigation into ANYTHING about MT or even any Press dialog about whether anything she was saying about her innocence made any sense. Its been like living on a far away planet and its why WS I think for this case was valuable and helpful as most MSM wasn't used as source documents because we saw early on how it was largely defence driven misinformation. Its been a long odd ride here with the media but I don't think anything has changed and even journalists who long ago I did appreciate their work (such as Channel12 Marissa Alter), I don't waste time even reading as they are simply reposting as that is what all their peers are doing. But, it makes me sad to think that not one of the many journalists following this case ever took a couple of weeks to do some simple research to explain to the public who Michelle Troconis actually is and what she has done in her life. We just saw endless stories of MT "socialite" etc. which could not have been further from the truth as to who MT is and how she ended up in CT.

Sad state of affairs with the media as you point out and I do think it tainted the jury pool for the trail. But it was all avoidable too but State and Judges did zero to stop it.

MOO

Thank you for writing so much in response to my post. Tomorrow I will read it deeply and try to provide more ideas.

 

[Tink56]

Took me forever but I finally found the reference in a post by @afitzy! (during the cross examination of the realtor who showed 80 MS iirc)

Post in thread 'CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, deceased/not found, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #65' CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, deceased/not found, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #65

5:56

Megnut, you're amazing....Thank you!

I'm trying to read the text....does this look close to you?
"From your end are u good for the weekend or are u still awaiting
(unknown) (unknown) with Jennifer."

I can't quite decipher the time, but the date is 5/24/2019. The time could be 10:12 or 12:12....

 

[Ruminations]

I like everything about what you’ve said here. And I still don’t understand why she (Petu) did not come forth with her so-called exculpating proof, when she was being questioned by a friendly defense attorney. If there was a day when that news was needed, it was Friday. What, really, did she assist with? All she really did was inform all of us that she doesn’t trust the police. Oh, and that Michi was happy. And why wouldn’t she have been?

Well, none of the defense witnesses seemed to help. She wasn't unique in that regard.

A hairdresser basically tells the jury that Michelle not only does not cancel her hair appointment immediately after Jennifer goes missing, she also acts bizarrely by not mentioning that highly relevant occurrence?

A neighbor says Fotis was jogging around the day of the murder looking disheveled and haggard?

Hutch just about cries on the stand because there is murder and possible clandestine burial in his "family"-like club?

A friend brings up "Fotis time" allowing the prosecution to remind the jury of Fotis' pre-murder sus visit?

As if the happy, happy times before the murder were not damaging enough, its happiness as always after it? Not concern? Not worry? And some of the witnesses looked like hostages.

Irrelevant expert witnesses that said things for the prosecution, like recent events are easier to recall than distant ones? It's easier to recount things-like murder with your bf who you communicate with in English- in the language you experienced it in?

I have waiting for years to say Michelle is innocent because she just is.

It's like the defense was just a second prosecution.

MOO

 

[Tink56]

Megnut, you're amazing....Thank you!

I'm trying to read the text....does this look close to you?
"From your end are u good for the weekend or are u still awaiting
(unknown) (unknown) with Jennifer."

I can't quite decipher the time, but the date is 5/24/2019. The time could be 10:12 or 12:12....

I'm quoting myself (and feel a little silly). I didn't look at your much clearer copy of the text that says it was at 10:12 on May 24th and reads, "Are you set for this weekend or are you still working things out with Jennifer."

Wow! It really appears that FD had told Dennis Puebla that supervision probably wouldn't be needed on the weekend of May 25th and that FD and JFD were arranging for Michi and her daughter to be present.

That explains a great deal about FD's intentions, IMO. He was going to take care of the problem with Jennifer...permanently. It would be interesting to know if Jennifer had also received a text from Dennis. There are a few holes I wish the prosecution could fill in the closing arguments...but they can't introduce any new information.

And, IMO, MT just went along and covered for FD, at his request. She had a chance to explain herself and her actions, but she continued to lie through two interviews....and wasn't completely honest in the final one.

 

[Megnut]

Well, none of the defense witnesses seemed to help. She wasn't unique in that regard.

A hairdresser basically tells the jury that Michelle not only does not cancel her hair appointment immediately after Jennifer goes missing, she also acts bizarrely by not mentioning that highly relevant occurrence?

A neighbor says Fotis was jogging around the day of the murder looking disheveled and haggard?

Hutch just about cries on the stand because there is murder and possible clandestine burial in his "family"-like club?

A friend brings up "Fotis time" allowing the prosecution to remind the jury of Fotis' pre-murder sus visit?

As if the happy, happy times before the murder were not damaging enough, its happiness as always after it? Not concern? Not worry? And some of the witnesses looked like hostages.

Irrelevant expert witnesses that said things for the prosecution, like recent events are easier to recall than distant ones? It's easier to recount things-like murder with your bf who you communicate with in English- in the language you experienced it in?

I have waiting for years to say Michelle is innocent because she just is.

It's like the defense was just a second prosecution.

MOO

Yeppers.

And don't forget -- the toast -- celebrating resolution -- when no legal resolution was in sight.

The end was in sight.

In the worst, sickest, most self-serving, diabolical way possible.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

I have a question for the morally-equal friend-- did MT, with her history of anger and jealousy, mention that Fotis hadn't ruffled the bed, been in the house and left his phone behind? In neither Spanish nor English? That didn't set MT off? Errrrmmmmmmm. Unless of course she already knew where he was.

How do you say 'welp' in Spanish?

jmo

 

[Ruminations]

I have a question for the morally-equal friend-- did MT, with her history of anger and jealousy, mention that Fotis hadn't ruffled the bed, been in the house and left his phone behind? In neither Spanish nor English? That didn't set MT off? Errrrmmmmmmm. Unless of course she already knew where he was.

How do you say 'welp' in Spanish?

jmo

And...Michelle knew ahead of time what to do with the phone. That's what does her in.

MOO

 

[MX27875]

With all of the information we have obtained, do you now think that JDs remains were transported in the Tacoma to 80 MS or transferred in New Canaan?

The timeline has filled in since we last discussed this; I am interested in what you all think.

 

[Megnut]

With all of the information we have obtained, do you now think that JDs remains were transported in the Tacoma to 80 MS or transferred in New Canaan?

The timeline has filled in since we last discussed this; I am interested in what you all think.

I struggle to envision a situation where FD would transfer trash bags, floor liners, a bicycle and a double-bag body bag weighing 100# between two vehicles parked along Lapham. But he very well could have. No school busses at that hour. Perhaps the bike was laying atop the rest.

Otherwise he had help. The second Suburban and there was an exchange before JFd's Suburban got parked at Waveny.

JMO