Curious in CT
Well, Hot Dog!
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2019
- Messages
- 621
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KW's FB cover photo is him steering a boat with presumably his son.There were previous pics of him in his boat on early threads.
KW's FB cover photo is him steering a boat with presumably his son.There were previous pics of him in his boat on early threads.
I think MT's daughter WAS listed on the court order banning physical contact with the children during visitation, which apparently was not enough to deter possibly other types of contact, if read literally. So that is how I got stuck on cellphones. MOO.just because the Michele Troconis daughter WASN'T listed in the motion by Judge Heller (stupid ERROR IMO) that BOTH Fd and Michele Troconis exploited this loophole to continue contact with the children.
Horrifying, but far, far from unfathomable. MOO too...7) Said, Foti you are always saying you’re gonna kill her, so why don’t you actually do it....
(Moo)
I take that as a rhetorical question, which chatterbox Rumonations will answer anyway.
I think the AW was telling us that MT was telling LE that she knew Jennifer was a body, aka dead. And she was transported in the Tacoma "at some point."
Therefore, even in the absolutely most generous interpretation of her involvement in the murder, even if you think "but player" rather than "driver of the whole thing," it is known...
That Michelle Troconis had information that could have helped LE locate the body and she didn't provide it. That is inexcusable. I don't get her or others supporting her. If she were my family I would not march around the court house or spend one dime for her legal troubles until she told all.
eWell, I think I can speak for a lot of the posters who have been here on this case from the beginning, that Afitzy is one of the very best “web sleuthers” on here. Amazing skills, extremely knowledgeable, dedicated, honest, respectful, generous, helpful, detailed, professional, friendly, funny, kind, patient and understanding. She pours her heart out every day and provides all of us with the facts, up to date information and her heartfelt opinions. Most everyone truly appreciates her hard work and the time she puts into every single post. IMO
Brilliant observation. It's one of those "Why didn't I see that before?!" realizations that just hits you.Well, it is understandable if you consider that she is probably fully invested in this crime. If she was an innocent victim of Fd’s murderous charm, she would have told them something helpful by now, because there is no good reason to withhold unless she was afraid it would incriminate her. It is possible that she doesn’t know where Jennifer’s body is, or was-but she knew by Friday night 5/24 that Jennifer had been murdered. She had plenty of time to tell the authorities, but she didn’t. Better to be a woman who helped her man clean up the aftermath, than a co-conspirator in a murder, yes? So instead of taking on the limited role of the former, she is now the latter. Why would she allow this? Because she IS the latter.
Don't know how the death affected MT. Everyone is different. My sister passed away from cancer at age 18. I was 17 months older. During her illness which lasted 10 months, I became a different person. I went crazy and impulsive knowing that life could end at anytime no matter how careful or good I was. I lived for the moment. I still do in a way. The greatest risk brings the greatest reward. It's very scary as a young person. My father blamed himself. Nothing was ever talked about. It's all very interesting and really does affect your life but morals are already in place by age 15. You had morals by then or you didn't. MOO.
ETA: My parents had very high morals. Doesn't seem that way with MT family. I would have been disowned for moving in with a married guy with 5 kids. Definitely disowned for Albany Ave. On the other hand, a guy I went all thru school with came from a terrible family and he became a police officer and later on, a lawyer. It's always a choice.
OKLove your posts but we don't know that.
Remains to be seen.
MOO.
OMG.Jennifer Dulos hesitated at times as she described to a family court judge the series of events that led to her flight with her five children from the Farmington home she shared with her husband in June 2017.
But there was one defining moment that was clear to her.
It occurred a few weeks before she filed for divorce when her husband, Fotis Dulos, threatened to take their children and “disappear,” according to court transcripts of the first hearing in what became an acrimonious divorce that spanned two years and included more than 400 filingsleading up to her disappearance last May 24.
“I knew in that moment when he made that threat, I knew I had to get us out of there,” she testified of a tense scene overheard by the family nanny in their Farmington kitchen on May 30, 2017. “And I knew I needed a safe place for my children and I needed to find an attorney...”
Domestic violence advocates say court officials failed to recognize Fotis Dulos’ alleged abusive behavior and designated the case as “high conflict” instead of domestic violence.
“It should have been handled differently,” said Karen Jarmoc, executive director for the Connecticut Coalition Against Domestic Violence. “There should be a better understanding by judges around offender behaviors. There should be repercussions for violating court orders. If anything, the family court is empowering the offender.”
CCADV is now seeking legislation that would require drafting a “benchbook” that would be used as a guide for judges, court officials and attorneys to identify the nuances, including controlling and harassing behaviors that differentiate “high conflict” and domestic violence divorces...
The benchbook would give judges a “better understanding” of the nuances between the two, she said.
“Family Services has to be impartial, but clearly these behaviors are so evident,” Jarmoc said. “This is not new. There is a very blanket refusal by the Judicial Branch to shift or change their practices and people are dying because of it.”
Jarmoc contends that Judicial Branch officials are opposed to the idea and will likely buck any attempt to utilize the proposed benchbook, which would be drafted by a multi-disciplinary committee.“Judicial has informed us that they would be completely opposed,” Jarmoc said.
Judicial Branch officials, including judges who handle family cases or court administrative matters, have declined to discuss any aspect of the Dulos case, citing the pending criminal charges against Fotis Dulos, his former girlfriend Michelle Troconis and his former civil attorney Kent Mawhinney, and also the gag order barring case participants from discussing evidence or the character of victims and witnesses...
Judges already have access to an electronic binder that is considered the benchbook for all types of domestic violence-related proceedings, including criminal, civil and divorce and custody matters, the judge said.
Judges and other court staff also have annual training in domestic violence by “nationally recognized” leaders in the field, Bozzuto said.
The new system, based on the National Center for State Court’s Family Justice Initiative, will identify complex cases quickly and make them more judge-driven rather than steered by a litigant or attorney, Bozzuto said.
‘He didn’t care what the neighbors heard’
In the Dulos case, the issue of potential domestic violence surfaced almost immediately.
According to transcripts from the hearing on Jennifer Dulos’ custody and abuse request in June 2017, the New Canaan mother told the judge several times that she was afraid of her husband. She said they discussed separating for months leading up to her decision to flee with the children and file for divorce and a restraining order, according to the court transcripts.
Jennifer Dulos told the judge her husband presented her on May 30, 2017 with a custody schedule that indicated he wanted the children throughout the summer, including weekends “except that I could have one weekend a month” and two full weeks, according to the transcript.
“I said this is too much, I don’t think I can agree to all this and we moved into the living room and he became enraged with me, that I wasn’t just going to agree to all of this,” she testified.
Fotis Dulos threatened to take the children “and disappear” while yelling about six inches from her face, she testified. Jennifer Dulos ran out of the house and down the street with him chasing her, and saying “he didn’t care what the neighbors heard,” she testified.
When they returned home, Fotis Dulos fished the pieces of the agreement that he had ripped up out of the garbage and told her to tape them together, Jennifer Dulos testified. It was in that moment, Jennifer Dulos testified, that she knew she had to escape and hire an attorney. The couple’s longtime nanny, Lauren Almeida, testified during the hearing that she overheard the incident.
In July 2017, Stamford family court Judge Thomas Colin denied Jennifer Dulos’ request for emergency custody and relief from abuse after considering the hours of testimony that included her estranged husband’s attorney, Alan Rome, asking if his client ever hit her. She said he didn’t. Colin also denied Jennifer Dulos’ request to require her husband to undergo a psychological evaluation.
“She was clearly voicing fear in court and it fell on deaf ears,” Jarmoc said. “It was the argument, ‘well she’s emotional, she’s using this.’ That’s what these types of attorneys use in these cases.”
According to Rome, Stamford Family Services based its risk assessment report on the restraining order on “about five minutes” of discussion with his client.
The judge acknowledged in his July 25, 2017 order that emotions were raw between the couple and that Jennifer Dulos perceived her husband to be “controlling and aggressive.” Colin said arguments between the couple occurred when Fotis Dulos felt he could “no longer control the situation and unilaterally dictate its outcome.”
Colin denied Jennifer Dulos’ request for an emergency order of custody, saying she hadn’t proved “that there is an immediate and present risk of physical danger or psychological harm to the parties’ children.”
He encouraged the couple to work together through their attorneys to resolve the custody issues.
“The court is hopeful that once things settle down and cooler heads prevail, these extremely well educated and accomplished parents will be able to reach an agreement” on custody and child-rearing issues, Colin said.
‘They didn’t stop it’
But that didn’t happen, according to court transcripts and dozens of motions filed by both parties in the months that followed. The couple briefly agreed on a parenting plan with few restrictions in November 2017. But a few weeks later, on the advice of her new attorney, Jennifer Dulos filed for the temporary parenting plan to be thrown out because she felt she had been “sold a bill of goods” that the agreement was “a good deal.”
The legal maneuvering led to requests for required therapy for Fotis Dulos and court-ordered supervised visitation with his children based on a separate judge’s findings that he had repeatedly defied court orders and encouraged the children to lie about their contact with Troconis and her daughter.
More than eight months had passed by the time a second judge — a total of five presided at some point over the case — ordered the family evaluated and receive services to help move their lives forward while maintaining two separate households.
Detailed notes of each visit made with the court-ordered supervisor indicated the children frequently asked their father for more time together and about Troconis and her daughter whom they had spent time with before he was ordered to stop the practice.
Each time, the monitor ordered Fotis Dulos to redirect their attention to avoid discussing the pending divorce and custody arrangements.
The notes reveal the children would often vie for the honor of sitting next to their father while at restaurants, requiring a shift every 15 minutes so each could get a chance. They often embraced in a group hug when the supervised meetings occurred about once a month, even as the underlying tension and the motions for contempt between their parents continued.
The vicious cycle of repeated court filings and lack of acknowledgment that the litigation could be a red flag for domestic violence is a problem that hundreds of victims face annually, Jarmoc said.
“The Dulos case is a very real example of the challenges faced by victims and court staff when dealing with the nuances of domestic violence during custody and divorce,” she said.
The difference between the Dulos case and others is that the participants had access to money, which fueled attorneys on both sides to repeatedly file contentious motions that kept the case going far too long, Jarmoc said. By the time Jennifer Dulos disappeared in 2019, custody and children support issues still hadn’t been resolved, court records show.
“The court didn’t put their foot down and say, ‘enough is enough,’ they didn’t do that,” Jarmoc said. “Family court definitely played a role in this, they didn’t stop it.”
Advocate: Knowing signs of domestic abuse critical in divorce cases like Dulos
Just bringing this post forward, I agree. Years ago I was contacted by our local university law class to participate in a "experiment" if you will on how much we observe as a witness.What's maddening (to me) is that would-be murderers might actually get away with their crimes if they are successful enough in covering up by thorough cleaning, burying or otherwise obfuscating their nefarious schemes.
I understand our system is based upon innocence until proven guilty, but the preponderance of evidence of the planning and subsequent deceptive actions after the fact by main parties in this case is quite overwhelming. For one to nit-pick as to why the nanny didn't perceive blood in the cleaned up garage is preposterous. IMO
Just bringing this post forward, I agree. Years ago I was contacted by our local university law class to participate in a "experiment" if you will on how much we observe as a witness.
We were shown brief clips of crimes, evidence, possible criminals, then asked to recall what we observed. None of us could identify all the key notes of evidence. Even being told what we should look for, none of us got 100% right. To me that was a very telling lesson, even though you look at something, you don't see it.
MOO
At the very bottom of the 400+ pages of SW, it looks like more iPhones were found at 69 Welles. Were the children forbidden from bringing them into the school and so they were to be left at home with their other devices? Some folks who live in New Canaan (back then, maybe not now) would express surprise at the belief that leaving a 2017 Suburban at Waveny, lights on, would attract a joy rider and that a visible iPhone 7 would be enticing booty. I suppose Fd could have been careful enough to pick up an iPhone at 69 Welles just to leave behind for thieves. Or, as suggested, most people with kids have messy cars and a cellphone could have rolled under the seats. I guess I really want to know the story because it doesn't make sense to me if the iPhone 7 in red case was a working cellphone and JFd didn't use it herself. See SW dated 05/28/2019 signed 06/13/2019 by CSP of items found in JFd Suburban: Ex#117 - one (1) iPhone model A1778 in red colored case.
.
I take that as a rhetorical question, which chatterbox Rumonations will answer anyway.
I think the AW was telling us that MT was telling LE that she knew Jennifer was a body, aka dead. And she was transported in the Tacoma "at some point."
Therefore, even in the absolutely most generous interpretation of her involvement in the murder, even if you think "but player" rather than "driver of the whole thing," it is known...
That Michelle Troconis had information that could have helped LE locate the body and she didn't provide it. That is inexcusable. I don't get her or others supporting her. If she were my family I would not march around the court house or spend one dime for her legal troubles until she told all.
Totally agree with this observation. She was front and center.MOO.
I wondered if we know any more about the death of her twin brother (I believe)?
Did this death happen when she was 15?
How did the death impact her and her family?
Did she see the death happen and what were the circumstances?
Did she have any role in the death or advance notice?
Was the death of her twin tied in any way to her parents sending her away when she was 15?
Well, it is understandable if you consider that she is probably fully invested in this crime. If she was an innocent victim of Fd’s murderous charm, she would have told them something helpful by now, because there is no good reason to withhold unless she was afraid it would incriminate her. It is possible that she doesn’t know where Jennifer’s body is, or was-but she knew by Friday night 5/24 that Jennifer had been murdered. She had plenty of time to tell the authorities, but she didn’t. Better to be a woman who helped her man clean up the aftermath, than a co-conspirator in a murder, yes? So instead of taking on the limited role of the former, she is now the latter. Why would she allow this? Because she IS the latter.
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