Still Missing CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #58

[Megnut]

I find this trial oddly conversational. JS objecting, the Judge rewording it into proper form, sidebars that are open bars, objections to evidence in front of the jurors. Said it upthread, it feels like a mock trial, a dress rehearsal. Which I hope it isn't.

Hoping it gains some real momentum this week. Maybe it will feel like seeing one's life flash before one's eyes for MT. Like a video reel. Only it's CCTV. And CCTV doesn't lie.

Some Albany Avenue, some Home Depot, maybe some car washing and car jockeying. Peculiar maneuvers for a passive sidepiece.

What? No selfie at Home Depot?

What nonsense will JS try to spin to get MT's DNA admixed with JFd's on the same trash bag? Maybe the Easter Bunny is responsible for that too.

You have to suspend all decency to get inside the mind of the MT. You have to suspend the TRUTH to get inside JS's.

 JMO

 

[Diddian]

During Cross exam of the DNA witness yesterday, JS was allowed to ramble on with the hypothetical "Chocolate Easter Bunny" story. He was effectively allowed to take over the testimony, and in so doing created doubt regarding 'touch DNA', or transferred DNA.
JS was preemptively turning the positive DNA match to MT on the soon to be found trash bags into junk science. The judge, by allowing him to bloviate about facts not in evidence ( yet ) did a great disservice to the states case. For crying out loud, the judge even repeated the chocolate Easter Bunny hypothetical, while he schooled the jury and the court.

Questionable at best.
Judicial Misconduct at worst. IMO

Yes, JS is quite crafty. Earlier, he'd introduced the hypothetical of a cake box when cross-examining the State's DNA scientist. I imagine the judge thought the chocolate easter bunnies were just more of the same.

So, why didn't the judge shut it down? And the State object to the supposed hypothetical?

On the plus side - were I a juror hearing this suggestion that a gift of chocolate easter bunnies explains FD's DNA on JFD's sink faucet, I'd have to control myself from guffawing out loud... as it is so much more likely that the DNA there where it is not supposed to be relates to the blood spilled all over the garage the same day JFD goes missing. Particularly when considered along with other evidence.

 

[afitzy]

Yes, JS is quite crafty. Earlier, he'd introduced the hypothetical of a cake box when cross-examining the State's DNA scientist. I imagine the judge thought the chocolate easter bunnies were just more of the same.

So, why didn't the judge shut it down? And the State object to the supposed hypothetical?

On the plus side - were I a juror hearing this suggestion that a gift of chocolate easter bunnies explains FD's DNA on JFD's sink faucet, I'd have to control myself from guffawing out loud... as it is so much more likely that the DNA there where it is not supposed to be relates to the blood spilled all over the garage the same day JFD goes missing. Particularly when considered along with other evidence.

Idk, do you really think it’s craftiness when it’s all so transparent and cynical? Real masters of the art manipulate without instilling a feeling of ick that I oddly get even listening to TP?! It’s odd to run into a character that gives you the feeling to “watch your wallet” but that is oddly or not what I’m feeling here and frankly it feels awful which is why I keep posting about it hoping someone will convince me I’m all wrong and that this isn’t happening!

 

[Diddian]

Idk, do you really think it’s craftiness when it’s all so transparent and cynical? Real masters of the art manipulate without instilling a feeling of ick that I oddly get even listening to TP?! It’s odd to run into a character that gives you the feeling to “watch your wallet” but that is oddly or not what I’m feeling here and frankly it feels awful which is why I keep posting about it hoping someone will convince me I’m all wrong and that this isn’t happening!

Well, if you are feeling it as you watch him (and others here have reported much the same when he speaks), then certainly jurors might be feeling that same "icky" vibe.

I don't get the feeling that either JS or his fellow attorney are connecting with anyone in that box. (In fact, the ONLY individual who appears to me to date to be connecting with the occupants of the jury box is the judge. I think it also likely that jurors felt tender toward LA as she appeared credible, young, and courageous beyond her years when testifying).

If anything, the connection that seems most apparently important to JS is the T family that walks into and out of the courthouse with him.

ETA: I also think it likely that Ms. Manning is respected by jurors, as she seems respectful toward the judge and toward the jury. She attempts to make things clear (despite the difficulties associated with limits imposed by the defense) and apologizes for the somewhat cumbersome clicking around between photos.

 

[LosAngeles]

Idk, do you really think it’s craftiness when it’s all so transparent and cynical? Real masters of the art manipulate without instilling a feeling of ick that I oddly get even listening to TP?! It’s odd to run into a character that gives you the feeling to “watch your wallet” but that is oddly or not what I’m feeling here and frankly it feels awful which is why I keep posting about it hoping someone will convince me I’m all wrong and that this isn’t happening!

Oh, it’s happening! It’s def happening. It’s all very surreal to me, too. Just the rudimentary observations are crazy (defendant smacking her gum and lead defense attorney grooming himself while the judge arrives in court). It’s Carnival Court which I thought only existed in Las Vegas (giggle).

 

[Megnut]

Well, if you are feeling it as you watch him (and others here have reported much the same when he speaks), then certainly jurors might be feeling that same "icky" vibe.

I don't get the feeling that either JS or his fellow attorney are connecting with anyone in that box. (In fact, the ONLY individual who appears to me to date to be connecting with the occupants of the jury box is the judge. I think it also likely that jurors felt tender toward LA as she appeared credible, young, and courageous beyond her years when testifying).

If anything, the connection that seems most apparently important to JS is the T family that walks into and out of the courthouse with him.

With MT holding her papa's hand. As adults do.

Posing much?

Just glad the jurors doesn't have to see that. It's bad enough that we do.

JMO

 

[Alkali13]

If you are interested in the history on this check out the Hartford Courant articles and look for reference to homeless person named "Fudge". Perhaps this case will provide credible evidence to support the existence of this story? We don't have a witness list as the public so we don't even know if the "Reporter" from the Hartford Courant is on the list to testify.

To my knowledge we have never seen any photo or video of Fudge (or photo or video of person that gave up Fudge either for that matter) or mention of Fudge from law enforcement. Given the extensive video capabilities on Albany imo to the extent this person existed then the footage from Hartford Command would exist to support it. I also don't believe the original article contained any photographs by the "Reporter" of the person interviewed (no sourcing provided iirc) and at the time the article sourcing iirc was questioned and never supported by the "Reporter" and rumours existed that the source of the article might have been Atty Pattis or a member of firm.

Could the story as reported been true? I don't think we can know unless evidence exists to support it imo.

Here is a link to one of the "Fudge" stories that to me seemed like nothing more than a series of stories describing a 'snipe hunt'. If you know you know about snipe hunts.....


HC Fudge Article September

Catching up, but starting here since it's where I stopped last night. Just a few thoughts... The entire Fudge story sounds like nonsense and kind of always did, especially when we had no idea what the murder scene looked like. I always assumed there was no way FD went there with the intention of that much bloodshed, but the area of origin on multiple bloodshed events seems to support the idea that a knife may have been involved.

I grew up right outside of New Haven, and the entire story told by Fudge about George and his other trades sounds completely plausible based on my experience. In New Haven, we had multiple unhoused who were known well around the neighborhood, but never by full name (for instance, most people knew this woman Fran as "Shakespeare Lady," as she would walk around offering to recite Shakespeare for people for change).

Does any of this mean it's true? Absolutely not. Does it mean I think it's plausible? Yes, although I would love to reconcile what NP would've known was missing from Welles and what theories on murder weapons were at the time of DA printing that article.

 

[Megnut]

Is JS teasing out his strategy? FD's DNA hopped into JFd's kitchen on a chocolate Easter bunny, and MT's DNA trotted onto trash bags because, having purchased them, she pre-opened each one, with her own gummy grubby bare hands. Could it happen like that? Not in any real world.

I'll take science over JS.

JMO

 

[afitzy]

Well, if you are feeling it as you watch him (and others here have reported much the same when he speaks), then certainly jurors might be feeling that same "icky" vibe.

I don't get the feeling that either JS or his fellow attorney are connecting with anyone in that box. (In fact, the ONLY individual who appears to me to date to be connecting with the occupants of the jury box is the judge. I think it also likely that jurors felt tender toward LA as she appeared credible, young, and courageous beyond her years when testifying).

If anything, the connection that seems most apparently important to JS is the T family that walks into and out of the courthouse with him.

ETA: I also think it likely that Ms. Manning is respected by jurors, as she seems respectful toward the judge and toward the jury. She attempts to make things clear (despite the difficulties associated with limits imposed by the defense) and apologizes for the somewhat cumbersome clicking around between photos.

You are per usual correct!

It’s just been so long since having the “ick” with Defence Counsel that I’m in a bit of shock. It’s the misstatements and misleading that is throwing me along with the testifying. This is usually disallowed behaviour, but somehow it’s happening.

I am resilient though so will back to normal shortly!

 

[DeDee]

Pondering the influence, manipulation, cunning and conning of FD to have not one, but two people to conspire with in order to disappear Jennifer forever, both before and after, the two violent assault events in the garage that we still don't know how long it took to commit the murder and try cleaning his presence via dna and blood; whereby, but we know he failed miserably, thankfully.

I survived a secret escape from a long-term relationship from a master manipulator but not without scars on my heart and soul. These type of greedy people damage us in terrible ways because they can. Whether or not my ex was capable of murdering me, idk, but what I do know is that my soul felt it. I knew it and felt compelled to leave as quickly as possible.

It was interesting to me that two certain people fell in line to support the ex during the two yr abusive battle for a divorce, much in the same way that MT & KM did for FD. In that revelational way, I can understand that if my more powerful ex had been charged with murdering me, perhaps they would have stood behind the defense table as well because they may have been culpable, in a certain capacity, via his perfected manipulation, much akin to MT & KM.

We typically form few true friendships in life with those who are loyal and won't be tempted to betray. Jennifer developed a true friendship with LA who undoubtedly loves Jennifer's 5 children. Surely that loving feeling is returned 5 fold.

By Michael Dinan | January 13, 2020​

After pedaling his bicycle from Waveny Park to Welles Lane to kill his estranged wife, and then steering an employee’s pickup truck back upstate with her corpse, Fotis Dulos failed to remove from the vehicle the dark-colored, hooded sweatshirt he’d been wearing while cycling, according to interviews and evidence cited in a state police detective’s sworn affidavit made public last week.
The Toyota Tacoma’s owner would discover a blue hoodie in a red pail inside the truck on May 28, four days after the murder, according to Detective John Kimball <>. Kimball’s lengthy affidavits—now spread across seven felony arrest warrant applications connected to the disappearance and murder of Jennifer Dulos—show that the man who came upon the sweatshirt, PGumienny, has played a critical role in a multi-agency investigation that culminated Jan. 7 in murder charges against FDulos and conspiracy to commit murder charges for his girlfriend, MTroconis, and personal friend and civil attorney KMawhinney. PGumienny, a project manager at FDulos’s construction company,<> in September, when police brought a second round of hindering and tampering charges against FDulos and Troconis.

AJMHOO

 

[afitzy]

Catching up, but starting here since it's where I stopped last night. Just a few thoughts... The entire Fudge story sounds like nonsense and kind of always did, especially when we had no idea what the murder scene looked like. I always assumed there was no way FD went there with the intention of that much bloodshed, but the area of origin on multiple bloodshed events seems to support the idea that a knife may have been involved.

I grew up right outside of New Haven, and the entire story told by Fudge about George and his other trades sounds completely plausible based on my experience. In New Haven, we had multiple unhoused who were known well around the neighborhood, but never by full name (for instance, most people knew this woman Fran as "Shakespeare Lady," as she would walk around offering to recite Shakespeare for people for change).

Does any of this mean it's true? Absolutely not. Does it mean I think it's plausible? Yes, although I would love to reconcile what NP would've known was missing from Welles and what theories on murder weapons were at the time of DA printing that article.

Perfect assessment imo! Frankly after having thought about it for awhile I personally think Pattis used DA to put forward a narrative that he could use in the eventual book. I always saw the whole thing as a snipe hunt. At the time I was annoyed as if neither DA nor Pattis went to law enforcement with what they knew then potentially huge resources might have been deployed in a fools errand and at a critical time in the investigation. Pattis could have also been messing around with law enforcement to take their eye off the ball too.

A good lie usually contains a bit of truth and the Fudge story just seemed like a put up to me with a master storyteller behind the narrative. Can’t you imagine the eventual movie scene on Albany ave with the unhoused trading various items from the house on Welles? Drama gold and Pattis knew it.

But, perhaps my current cynical mood is wrong on this entire fudge story? Could there be no fudge but a knife? Makes lots of sense to explain the huge blood loss and seeming collapse of victim on to floor in Welles garage. The knife aspect also fit perfectly to FD love of knives and the MT extensive knowledge of skinning animals and cleaning fish. The Albany location of Fudge also fit with the location of MT and FD dumping of evidence. Idk the street value of a possibly expensive knife but perhaps $10 is a lot in that neck of the woods? Idk. But, I can see people thinking and giving consideration to Fudge story because he might have been a lie but the other portions of the story were true.

 

[afitzy]

Pondering the influence, manipulation, cunning and conning of FD to have not one, but two people to conspire with in order to disappear Jennifer forever, both before and after, the two violent assault events in the garage that we still don't know how long it took to commit the murder and try cleaning his presence via dna and blood; whereby, but we know he failed miserably, thankfully.

I survived a secret escape from a long-term relationship from a master manipulator but not without scars on my heart and soul. These type of greedy people damage us in terrible ways because they can. Whether or not my ex was capable of murdering me, idk, but what I do know is that my soul felt it. I knew it and felt compelled to leave as quickly as possible.

It was interesting to me that two certain people fell in line to support the ex during the two yr abusive battle for a divorce, much in the same way that MT & KM did for FD. In that revelational way, I can understand that if my more powerful ex had been charged with murdering me, perhaps they would have stood behind the defense table as well because they may have been culpable, in a certain capacity, via his perfected manipulation, much akin to MT & KM.

We typically form few true friendships in life with those who are loyal and won't be tempted to betray. Jennifer developed a true friendship with LA who undoubtedly loves Jennifer's 5 children. Surely that loving feeling is returned 5 fold.


AJMHOO

Well said! Your personal story layered on top of this tragedy is revelatory on so many levels.

Mike Dinan is the best so thanks for posting that link!

 

[Alkali13]

IIRC the tailgate liner ( yes not cheap - I use contractor garbage bags in my tailgate instead lol)) was put by Fotis, standing end to end up againt the outside wall of a small grocery/bakery on the west bound side of Albany Ave (Scotts Jamaican Bakery?). We heard on the news from either the owner of that small store or an employee about it. It was after his trash dumping or during the process.
In my mind I see it happening - so was it caught on film ? I cannot remember.
At that time I was spenidng alot of time in Hartford and I remember driving by there. There is a MacDonald's south on the other side of Albany Rd/ rt44 a bit. And maybe a Walgreens in the area then also. The homeless guy who found the pillow and sold the knife or traded it for something, was "Fudge".
This area has many decent people trying to just get by - maybe immigrants without papers etc - as well as homeless/drug dealers etc. I have never felt unsafe driving that road in the daytime.
JMOI

Yup, I've gotten vaccinated at the Walgreens behind the McDonalds a few times because it's much easier to get an appointment than the one in Bishops Corner West Hartford.

I agree with all of this and take Albany home from work sometimes and always when going to minor league baseball games in Hartford (go Yard Goats). TONS of Jamaican restaurants and bakeries (like every block, no joke), small grocers, barber shops, specialty salons and hair shops, etc. It's a community more than a "bad neighborhood."

 

[afitzy]

Oh, it’s happening! It’s def happening. It’s all very surreal to me, too. Just the rudimentary observations are crazy (defendant smacking her gum and lead defense attorney grooming himself while the judge arrives in court). It’s Carnival Court which I thought only existed in Las Vegas (giggle).

Nope. Surreal is the perfect word. Thank you as I’ve regressed to toddlerhood when we were told to “use our words” but we didn’t know which ones to use!

Very sadly it’s just a day in the life inside a courtroom in Corrupticut!

What is so sad is that JF imo was absolutely let down by Judge Heller et.al. In Family Court and now we have this circus to achieve justice on the conspiracy to commit her murder.

Stunning stuff and I hope things improve next week. I just finished watching the Judge come back to court to discuss the loss of another juror. Imo he looked shattered and more than unsure what to do. I pray he made the correct choice in not calling mistrial but I do have serious reservations about the entire situation with the remaining jurors.

 

[Alkali13]

Perfect assessment imo! Frankly after having thought about it for awhile I personally think Pattis used DA to put forward a narrative that he could use in the eventual book. I always saw the whole thing as a snipe hunt. At the time I was annoyed as if neither DA nor Pattis went to law enforcement with what they knew then potentially huge resources might have been deployed in a fools errand and at a critical time in the investigation. Pattis could have also been messing around with law enforcement to take their eye off the ball too.

A good lie usually contains a bit of truth and the Fudge story just seemed like a put up to me with a master storyteller behind the narrative. Can’t you imagine the eventual movie scene on Albany ave with the unhoused trading various items from the house on Welles? Drama gold and Pattis knew it.

But, perhaps my current cynical mood is wrong on this entire fudge story? Could there be no fudge but a knife? Makes lots of sense to explain the huge blood loss and seeming collapse of victim on to floor in Welles garage. The knife aspect also fit perfectly to FD love of knives and the MT extensive knowledge of skinning animals and cleaning fish. The Albany location of Fudge also fit with the location of MT and FD dumping of evidence. Idk the street value of a possibly expensive knife but perhaps $10 is a lot in that neck of the woods? Idk. But, I can see people thinking and giving consideration to Fudge story because he might have been a lie but the other portions of the story were true.

Interesting that you ask if $10 is a lot around here... In Hartford? Yes, that can get you some great local grub and a few groceries at local shops. A mile or two down the road? $10 is the kind of money they'd, pardon my crudeness, wipe their rear with. Same with Farmington and frankly NC.

You're correct that the makeup of a good lie is a blurring between reality and fiction, both including and excluding what does/doesn't fit your narrative. Supposedly there is video of someone going through that trash can after FD dropped evidence in it. From the DA article about Fudge: "A Hartford man can be seen on video removing the garbage bag on the morning of May 26." If this footage exists, will we see it soon? Is it worth showing the footage if you can't attest to the contents of said bag?

As for a knife being the murder implement, the more I think about it, the more likely I think it is (even if I do still think it was an idiotic choice on FD's part). Like you said, it tracks with the different heights that bloodshed emanated from and large amount of blood evidence. Not to be too graphic, but an initial stab in the back would fit with the taller blood spatter evidence, then repeated stabs on the ground could explain the other spatter evidence that originated from lower.

The existence of a knife is seeming more and more likely.

 

[afitzy]

I recall the state objecting just twice to the "Bunny".
Once, for relevance, and another for " Facts not in evidence".
The judge overuled one, but sustained the other, and therefore began his schooling and teaching to the jury. I watched the witness on the stand, she looked absolutely stunned that this was allowed and encouraged. It was sadly comical. IMO

Sad I think is the operative word as you point out.

I think you nailed what this entire trial has been so far: sad.

 

[citygirl]

Yes, JS is quite crafty. Earlier, he'd introduced the hypothetical of a cake box when cross-examining the State's DNA scientist. I imagine the judge thought the chocolate easter bunnies were just more of the same.

So, why didn't the judge shut it down? And the State object to the supposed hypothetical?

On the plus side - were I a juror hearing this suggestion that a gift of chocolate easter bunnies explains FD's DNA on JFD's sink faucet, I'd have to control myself from guffawing out loud... as it is so much more likely that the DNA there where it is not supposed to be relates to the blood spilled all over the garage the same day JFD goes missing. Particularly when considered along with other evidence.

Well said. Completely agree.
MOO.

 

[afitzy]

Interesting that you ask if $10 is a lot around here... In Hartford? Yes, that can get you some great local grub and a few groceries at local shops. A mile or two down the road? $10 is the kind of money they'd, pardon my crudeness, wipe their rear with. Same with Farmington and frankly NC.

You're correct that the makeup of a good lie is a blurring between reality and fiction, both including and excluding what does/doesn't fit your narrative. Supposedly there is video of someone going through that trash can after FD dropped evidence in it. From the DA article about Fudge: "A Hartford man can be seen on video removing the garbage bag on the morning of May 26." If this footage exists, will we see it soon? Is it worth showing the footage if you can't attest to the contents of said bag?

As for a knife being the murder implement, the more I think about it, the more likely I think it is (even if I do still think it was an idiotic choice on FD's part). Like you said, it tracks with the different heights that bloodshed emanated from and large amount of blood evidence. Not to be too graphic, but an initial stab in the back would fit with the taller blood spatter evidence, then repeated stabs on the ground could explain the other spatter evidence that originated from lower.

The existence of a knife is seeming more and more likely.

Interesting info about Hartford, thank you. I wonder if we will ever know whether this Fudge story was turned over to law enforcement and investigated? Just curious I guess.

On the garage scene, given the fascinating testimony by the Lt. Col. at trial I have to admit to wondering about whether FD attacked from the front or the rear ofJF? Was she coming out of the mudroom before finishing her breakfast tea because she heard some noise? Is this how he lured her out to the garage? The bag on the floor issue is still odd and I don't recall if we heard whether it was tested or not? Could JF skipped breakfast and was heading out the door because she was running late and was carrying her bag and FD brought it back into the house and left it in a place that didn't really make much sense? Still puzzling this all out.....

IDK about anyone else but I was stunned by the clarity of the Welles neighbour security footage shown at trial as well as the Hartford footage that we had previously seen in the AAs. Could law enforcement have HD video of someone fishing through the trash cans and be able to get a close up of perhaps the murder weapon/s (probably optimistic but I can only hope!)? As you point out, the Albany strip has an incredible amount of camera coverage of very high quality which was frankly incredible to see in the AAs and now again at trial. If FD and MT went to Starbucks for their lattes and food perhaps they were captured on camera doing so. I also look forward to the forensic analysis of the Ford Raptor and the Red Tacoma as well as hearing from PG. We have yet to hear of any OnStar data but the Ford Raptor no doubt had some kind of computer system so I wonder if law enforcement obtained any useful information from it? I also wonder about the 2 Suburbans having any usable data. Did the FD choice to run down the battery on the JF Suburban destroy what data was in that system?

Given the extent of the early police canvassing as described in this past weeks testimony from I believe the Sargent, I'm optimistic (yes, it happens) that so much footage exists in their library on this case that the challenge was cutting back what would be presented at trial as evidence! The area law enforcement had to cover was sizeable (60 miles between NC and Farmington) so the mountain of evidence must be sizeable. I still do find it stunning that given the mountain of evidence that the location somewhere along the path of the various vehicles where the murdered JF was dispatched by the conspirators has not been found. I do wonder though if it was found and will be disclosed at trial? Given the rest of the evidence that seems to be in hand, the deceased body is not essential but I wish closure for the family that a body would bring.

Fingers crossed police found footage from some source or eyewitness accounts to document the 80MS and 4JX various trips of MT, FD and KM as well as PG too as well as the FD bike ride in NC. Its the 80MS comings and goings and being able to pinpoint the timeline of all the conspirators that will have me glued to the trial feed. The KM timeline has always been vague and details in his AA sketchy vs the other two participants in this murder imo. He was fully charged so there must have been some reason by the State for doing so, if even to simply ensure his testimony at MT trial. I very much look forward to putting the KM presence into the timeline so as to be able to pinpoint his location on the murder date.

 

[citygirl]

Pondering the influence, manipulation, cunning and conning of FD to have not one, but two people to conspire with in order to disappear Jennifer forever, both before and after, the two violent assault events in the garage that we still don't know how long it took to commit the murder and try cleaning his presence via dna and blood; whereby, but we know he failed miserably, thankfully.

I survived a secret escape from a long-term relationship from a master manipulator but not without scars on my heart and soul. These type of greedy people damage us in terrible ways because they can. Whether or not my ex was capable of murdering me, idk, but what I do know is that my soul felt it. I knew it and felt compelled to leave as quickly as possible.

It was interesting to me that two certain people fell in line to support the ex during the two yr abusive battle for a divorce, much in the same way that MT & KM did for FD. In that revelational way, I can understand that if my more powerful ex had been charged with murdering me, perhaps they would have stood behind the defense table as well because they may have been culpable, in a certain capacity, via his perfected manipulation, much akin to MT & KM.

We typically form few true friendships in life with those who are loyal and won't be tempted to betray. Jennifer developed a true friendship with LA who undoubtedly loves Jennifer's 5 children. Surely that loving feeling is returned 5 fold.


AJMHOO

Couldn't find a hear emoji.

 

[afitzy]

Couldn't find a hear emoji.