Still Missing CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #58

[citygirl]

Interesting info about Hartford, thank you. I wonder if we will ever know whether this Fudge story was turned over to law enforcement and investigated? Just curious I guess.

On the garage scene, given the fascinating testimony by the Lt. Col. at trial I have to admit to wondering about whether FD attacked from the front or the rear ofJF? Was she coming out of the mudroom before finishing her breakfast tea because she heard some noise? Is this how he lured her out to the garage? The bag on the floor issue is still odd and I don't recall if we heard whether it was tested or not? Could JF skipped breakfast and was heading out the door because she was running late and was carrying her bag and FD brought it back into the house and left it in a place that didn't really make much sense? Still puzzling this all out.....

IDK about anyone else but I was stunned by the clarity of the Welles neighbour security footage shown at trial as well as the Hartford footage that we had previously seen in the AAs. Could law enforcement have HD video of someone fishing through the trash cans and be able to get a close up of perhaps the murder weapon/s (probably optimistic but I can only hope!)? As you point out, the Albany strip has an incredible amount of camera coverage of very high quality which was frankly incredible to see in the AAs and now again at trial. If FD and MT went to Starbucks for their lattes and food perhaps they were captured on camera doing so. I also look forward to the forensic analysis of the Ford Raptor and the Red Tacoma as well as hearing from PG. We have yet to hear of any OnStar data but the Ford Raptor no doubt had some kind of computer system so I wonder if law enforcement obtained any useful information from it? I also wonder about the 2 Suburbans having any usable data. Did the FD choice to run down the battery on the JF Suburban destroy what data was in that system?

Given the extent of the early police canvassing as described in this past weeks testimony from I believe the Sargent, I'm optimistic (yes, it happens) that so much footage exists in their library on this case that the challenge was cutting back what would be presented at trial as evidence! The area law enforcement had to cover was sizeable (60 miles between NC and Farmington) so the mountain of evidence must be sizeable. I still do find it stunning that given the mountain of evidence that the location somewhere along the path of the various vehicles where the murdered JF was dispatched by the conspirators has not been found. I do wonder though if it was found and will be disclosed at trial? Given the rest of the evidence that seems to be in hand, the deceased body is not essential but I wish closure for the family that a body would bring.

Fingers crossed police found footage from some source or eyewitness accounts to document the 80MS and 4JX various trips of MT, FD and KM as well as PG too as well as the FD bike ride in NC. Its the 80MS comings and goings and being able to pinpoint the timeline of all the conspirators that will have me glued to the trial feed. The KM timeline has always been vague and details in his AA sketchy vs the other two participants in this murder imo. He was fully charged so there must have been some reason by the State for doing so, if even to simply ensure his testimony at MT trial. I very much look forward to putting the KM presence into the timeline so as to be able to pinpoint his location on the murder date.

Based on what we have seen so far LE kept much evidence close to the vest. A good sign, IMO. Hoping there is much more to come.
MOO.

 

[DeDee]

TP has made repeated claims of Hearsay in many of his objections in this trial. He often makes his claims with no explanation which imo isn’t helpful to the jury or public watching and I would think the Judge would find this irritating given the somewhat complex nature of the topic. So far I believe many of these objections have been denied. TP seems to be lobbing in claims of hearsay with no explanation in hopes that Judge will sustain even a few. Idk why objections without full explanation are being permitted by this Judge as imo I’m not sensing full preparation from the defense such that their claims of possible hearsay could be argued.

State imo has done very weak job explaining why particular contested testimony is not hearsay but I did notice today atty manning finally made a coherent explanation on the topic which might have been understood and appreciated by the jurors and public watching.

CT.gov Hearsay

For those interested or even TP for a possible refresher I think this is the relevant info on the topic from CT.gov. If I am incorrect on relevancy just send me dm and I will adjust.

Yes, I agree about the D's continuous lobbing claims of hearsay (great phrase as I imaged bubbles of text with hearsay objections floating in the courtroom). Once he requested a running objection. I thought the Judge would lose his cool on that one but he didn't. This Judge speaks more during a trial than most I've seen in trials lately.

A “running objection” is a legal term used during a deposition, hearing, or trial when it appears that the same or similar objection will be repeatedly encountered. It is a single objection to all the questions in a given line of questioning

 

[Ruminations]

Interesting info about Hartford, thank you. I wonder if we will ever know whether this Fudge story was turned over to law enforcement and investigated? Just curious I guess.

On the garage scene, given the fascinating testimony by the Lt. Col. at trial I have to admit to wondering about whether FD attacked from the front or the rear ofJF? Was she coming out of the mudroom before finishing her breakfast tea because she heard some noise? Is this how he lured her out to the garage? The bag on the floor issue is still odd and I don't recall if we heard whether it was tested or not? Could JF skipped breakfast and was heading out the door because she was running late and was carrying her bag and FD brought it back into the house and left it in a place that didn't really make much sense? Still puzzling this all out.....

IDK about anyone else but I was stunned by the clarity of the Welles neighbour security footage shown at trial as well as the Hartford footage that we had previously seen in the AAs. Could law enforcement have HD video of someone fishing through the trash cans and be able to get a close up of perhaps the murder weapon/s (probably optimistic but I can only hope!)? As you point out, the Albany strip has an incredible amount of camera coverage of very high quality which was frankly incredible to see in the AAs and now again at trial. If FD and MT went to Starbucks for their lattes and food perhaps they were captured on camera doing so. I also look forward to the forensic analysis of the Ford Raptor and the Red Tacoma as well as hearing from PG. We have yet to hear of any OnStar data but the Ford Raptor no doubt had some kind of computer system so I wonder if law enforcement obtained any useful information from it? I also wonder about the 2 Suburbans having any usable data. Did the FD choice to run down the battery on the JF Suburban destroy what data was in that system?

Given the extent of the early police canvassing as described in this past weeks testimony from I believe the Sargent, I'm optimistic (yes, it happens) that so much footage exists in their library on this case that the challenge was cutting back what would be presented at trial as evidence! The area law enforcement had to cover was sizeable (60 miles between NC and Farmington) so the mountain of evidence must be sizeable. I still do find it stunning that given the mountain of evidence that the location somewhere along the path of the various vehicles where the murdered JF was dispatched by the conspirators has not been found. I do wonder though if it was found and will be disclosed at trial? Given the rest of the evidence that seems to be in hand, the deceased body is not essential but I wish closure for the family that a body would bring.

Fingers crossed police found footage from some source or eyewitness accounts to document the 80MS and 4JX various trips of MT, FD and KM as well as PG too as well as the FD bike ride in NC. Its the 80MS comings and goings and being able to pinpoint the timeline of all the conspirators that will have me glued to the trial feed. The KM timeline has always been vague and details in his AA sketchy vs the other two participants in this murder imo. He was fully charged so there must have been some reason by the State for doing so, if even to simply ensure his testimony at MT trial. I very much look forward to putting the KM presence into the timeline so as to be able to pinpoint his location on the murder date.

We can be reasonably certain that if the Fudge story is true, LE know all about it. They have the footage from the relevant time. Fudge stained his street clothes searching through the garbage bins. Then, his clothes were stored for him during a brief incarceration per the story. The story could only have gotten to the press via LE, no need for the other way around.

I don't see much reason to doubt the story.

MOO

 

[Diddian]

Based on what we have seen so far LE kept much evidence close to the vest. A good sign, IMO. Hoping there is much more to come.
MOO.

I join you in that hope. I was delighted yesterday when Ventresca (sp?) revealed that they found working cameras on a pillar at the street end of a driveway just south of the entrance to Jefferson Crossing (on Eli Rd). And a cooperative homeowner as well.

 

[Diddian]

I join you in that hope. I was delighted yesterday when Ventresca (sp?) revealed that they found working cameras on a pillar at the street end of a driveway just south of the entrance to Jefferson Crossing (on Eli Rd). And a cooperative homeowner as well.

Replying to my own post to add that, as I recall from reading the Arrest Affidavit, LE also found working cameras surveilling the driveway into 80 MS Rd (and I assume that homeowner was cooperative as well).

So, LE must have a fairly complete awareness of the arrival/departure times (as well as specific vehicles and drivers) of all travel to/from 4JC and 80 MS Rd on 5/24 (and likely 5/23 and 5/25 as well).

 

[Megnut]

Yes, I agree about the D's continuous lobbing claims of hearsay (great phrase as I imaged bubbles of text with hearsay objections floating in the courtroom). Once he requested a running objection. I thought he Judge would lose him cool on that one but he didn't. This Judge speaks more during a trial than most I've seen in trials lately.

A “running objection” is a legal term used during a deposition, hearing, or trial when it appears that the same or similar objection will be repeatedly encountered. It is a single objection to all the questions in a given line of questioning

Coincidentally, I personally object to JS, in a running objection sort of way.

Si' down, Counselor.

Jmo

 

[Diddian]

Coincidentally, I personally object to JS, in a running objection sort of way.

Si' down, Counselor.

Jmo

I agree. The guy is totally objectionable. He's trying to "Harrison Bergeron" the State by handicapping their presentation of the evidence.

 

[citygirl]

This is quite interesting.

 

[DeDee]

Let's take a moment to switch the passe' Gone Girl affect to a more perhaps apropos
Lying Lover and talk about those alibi scripts. MT was pegged by one of the lawyers as being a lying lover (wears his hair in ponytail in video).

Think about needing to create an alibi script. Alibi scripts for the bad actors involved in the obvious murder of Jennifer Farber Dulos. They all knew.

JMHOO
BTW - GG is a stunning psycho thriller with a nail biting worthy script - moo
SEPT 06, 2019 NBC NEWYORK

 

[elissarachel]

That snagged for me too.

Could someone have come back AFTER LA replaced the roll for additional clean up?

I wish we could go back in time (well, for a thousand reasons) to see what all occurred at the holder. On, off, on, off.

Maybe FD inadvertently transfered blood to several rolls as he was breaking into the packaging. So he may have transfered blood in the pantry and she moved it to the kitchen, utterly unaware....

JMO

The blood like matter on the paper towel could have been from the garage and when LA put it in the kitchen…it was already on it from being in the garage

 

[afitzy]

Yes, I agree about the D's continuous lobbing claims of hearsay (great phrase as I imaged bubbles of text with hearsay objections floating in the courtroom). Once he requested a running objection. I thought the Judge would lose his cool on that one but he didn't. This Judge speaks more during a trial than most I've seen in trials lately.

A “running objection” is a legal term used during a deposition, hearing, or trial when it appears that the same or similar objection will be repeatedly encountered. It is a single objection to all the questions in a given line of questioning

Yes! Love the description of a running objection! It’s a bit like a machine gun though in the wrong hands and misused (haven’t seen it at trial recently that I can recall) and I thought the reference to it had the Judge on his last nerve and ready to head back to chambers for a deep breath and possibly a stiff drink! Time for a break he probably thought to escape the insanity!

 

[afitzy]

Let's take a moment to switch the passe' Gone Girl affect to a more perhaps apropos
Lying Lover and talk about those alibi scripts. MT was pegged by one of the lawyers as being a lying lover (wears his hair in ponytail in video).

Think about needing to create an alibi script. Alibi scripts for the bad actors involved in the obvious murder of Jennifer Farber Dulos. They all knew.

JMHOO
BTW - GG is a stunning psycho thriller with a nail biting worthy script - moo
SEPT 06, 2019 NBC NEWYORK

MT was “pegged” all right by all accounts and repeatedly but the reference by “the pony tail atty” to MT as the “lying lover” could have meant any number of things and/or could have just been FD via his atty issuing a public threat to MT to stay quiet and tow the line with law enforcement and use only the script. This iirc was a frantic time in the case.

The Pattis public rebuke also could have been his public announcement via his client that FD would flip on his “lying lover” so the comment was a threat and a statement clearly made to discredit.

The Pattis statement also took the focus off his client for a bit and got it back on MT as it was during this period that I believe FD most likely was still lying to Pattis and Pattis was trying to figure out what was going on and was simply buying time to figure things out. Can’t imagine the mess Pattis had on his hands with both the co conspirators most likely lying and a full scale evidence gathering effort from law enforcement that Pattis didn’t have the budget to compete with either. Wasn’t this also when he and DA might have cooked up “fudge” and the knife to distract law enforcement efforts? Have to look at the timing on the article to make sure but Pattis was frantically trying during this period to come up with an alternative theory and I think it was around then that he realized there wasn’t one. Yikes for him….and then the public victim shaming began and lasted for a long long time.

Iirc this was the period where the two co conspirators were not to see each other per the courts; but they did meet anyway supposedly. I hope during trial we learn about the two of them yet again not following court rulings. Was the purpose of the “party” at 4Jx to bring out KM and his vehicle to the property and kick off the murderous weekend? Were the three conspirators sickly celebrating the pending demise of their nemesis by tossing some rib eyes on the grill?

Of course they all knew as you point out but for some reason that defies logic, MT wouldn’t or couldn’t stay on script. My personal view is that MT lied because it’s her wired response to being caught out. Nope not me. I believe she also lied because she couldn’t admit the truth to herself or her family to whom she was probably crying, “why am I being treated like this when I did nothing”! Denial is a strong tool and my guess is things haven’t changed in this regard for MT or her family.

Think about what a remotely appropriate response to being shown the Hartford pictures with you assisting your lover in the disposal of the remains of your cleanup following a murder you participated in? My bingo card never had continued lying as being the best path forward! But for MT though lying was what she did and she did it a lot!!

I do think she tried to stay on script by early on defying her counsel (and Mama T) to speak with law enforcement after being wholly uncooperative but she got the script wrong (no doubt inability to read that pesky English will be blamed)! The early interview feeble attempts at the alibi script also could have just been her trying to signal to FD that she was on board with the plan and was staying strong?

But, speaking and then speaking inconsistently in other interviews wasn’t in her interest and so I look forward to trial evidence detailing each of the many lies and perhaps explaining the reality so it’s possible to understand why lying was seen as the only way forward. My guess is that even us here will be horrified.

The ongoing lying from MT was also something that I just chalked up to being reflective Of her character and perhaps her life experience where perhaps in Venezuela the routine response when dealing with police is to simply lie? Idk about possible cultural issues here and given that she has spent more of her life in US than Venezuela she would know that lying to law enforcement isn’t a good idea and silence is golden.

The punishable offence for MT regarding the lying imo was that it took law enforcement off their plan possibly when the goal was to find JF. I’d always wondered if the alibi script was to take law enforcement in the wrong directions? I think it was one of the MT many lies that had law enforcement running around searching local ponds and lakes in Farmington as well as the septic tank at iirc 4JX. But maybe we will learn this isn’t the case and that they were following cell phone or vehicle gps data. But, if the lying hindered the investigation I hope the punishment is harsh as is missing/murder cases time is of the essense always!

The thing with lying is that usually at some point with adequate proof the potential exists to redeem yourself as a credible witness. But, so far as we know this never happened with MT. There was a brief nanosecond where it appeared that she was assisting and then things seemed to fall off a cliff into imo obstruction and hindering territory (for which I hope she is punished).

After thinking about three interviews with law enforcement full of lies from MT the only thing my simple brain can believe is that the lies continued because she saw no way out to connect her many lies to anything closely resembling the truth because the truth was so awful, so horrfic and so damning as to her role that she simply had no way out. Effectively the lies were bad but the truth would have her sitting in a CT prison for the rest of her sorry life with no possibility of parole ever.

Given how hard TP has worked to toss the MT interviews it now looks likely that the States case will be to simply figuratively tie MT to a stake and light it up via mounds and mounds of evidence explaining exactly why she saw lying as the only way out of her problems.

I fully expect to possibly see much more direct participation and action by MT than we all ever imagined. Just recall her classic statement of, “….I didn’t clean Jennifer….”. No matter imo if you put that statement into English, Spanish or even chinese it doesn’t translate well for MT, especially if you assume alternative meanings for “clean”. Buckle up.

 

[afitzy]

Wish I could have found a bigger heart as the OP deserves it to be huge imo!

 

[Megnut]

MT was “pegged” all right by all accounts and repeatedly but the reference by “the pony tail atty” to MT as the “lying lover” could have meant any number of things and/or could have just been FD via his atty issuing a public threat to MT to stay quiet and tow the line with law enforcement and use only the script. This iirc was a frantic time in the case.

The Pattis public rebuke also could have been his public announcement via his client that FD would flip on his “lying lover” so the comment was a threat and a statement clearly made to discredit.

The Pattis statement also took the focus off his client for a bit and got it back on MT as it was during this period that I believe FD most likely was still lying to Pattis and Pattis was trying to figure out what was going on and was simply buying time to figure things out. Can’t imagine the mess Pattis had on his hands with both the co conspirators most likely lying and a full scale evidence gathering effort from law enforcement that Pattis didn’t have the budget to compete with either. Wasn’t this also when he and DA might have cooked up “fudge” and the knife to distract law enforcement efforts? Have to look at the timing on the article to make sure but Pattis was frantically trying during this period to come up with an alternative theory and I think it was around then that he realized there wasn’t one. Yikes for him….and then the public victim shaming began and lasted for a long long time.

Iirc this was the period where the two co conspirators were not to see each other per the courts; but they did meet anyway supposedly. I hope during trial we learn about the two of them yet again not following court rulings. Was the purpose of the “party” at 4Jx to bring out KM and his vehicle to the property and kick off the murderous weekend? Were the three conspirators sickly celebrating the pending demise of their nemesis by tossing some rib eyes on the grill?

Of course they all knew as you point out but for some reason that defies logic, MT wouldn’t or couldn’t stay on script. My personal view is that MT lied because it’s her wired response to being caught out. Nope not me. I believe she also lied because she couldn’t admit the truth to herself or her family to whom she was probably crying, “why am I being treated like this when I did nothing”! Denial is a strong tool and my guess is things haven’t changed in this regard for MT or her family.

Think about what a remotely appropriate response to being shown the Hartford pictures with you assisting your lover in the disposal of the remains of your cleanup following a murder you participated in? My bingo card never had continued lying as being the best path forward! But for MT though lying was what she did and she did it a lot!!

I do think she tried to stay on script by early on defying her counsel (and Mama T) to speak with law enforcement after being wholly uncooperative but she got the script wrong (no doubt inability to read that pesky English will be blamed)! The early interview feeble attempts at the alibi script also could have just been her trying to signal to FD that she was on board with the plan and was staying strong?

But, speaking and then speaking inconsistently in other interviews wasn’t in her interest and so I look forward to trial evidence detailing each of the many lies and perhaps explaining the reality so it’s possible to understand why lying was seen as the only way forward. My guess is that even us here will be horrified.

The ongoing lying from MT was also something that I just chalked up to being reflective Of her character and perhaps her life experience where perhaps in Venezuela the routine response when dealing with police is to simply lie? Idk about possible cultural issues here and given that she has spent more of her life in US than Venezuela she would know that lying to law enforcement isn’t a good idea and silence is golden.

The punishable offence for MT regarding the lying imo was that it took law enforcement off their plan possibly when the goal was to find JF. I’d always wondered if the alibi script was to take law enforcement in the wrong directions? I think it was one of the MT many lies that had law enforcement running around searching local ponds and lakes in Farmington as well as the septic tank at iirc 4JX. But maybe we will learn this isn’t the case and that they were following cell phone or vehicle gps data. But, if the lying hindered the investigation I hope the punishment is harsh as is missing/murder cases time is of the essense always!

The thing with lying is that usually at some point with adequate proof the potential exists to redeem yourself as a credible witness. But, so far as we know this never happened with MT. There was a brief nanosecond where it appeared that she was assisting and then things seemed to fall off a cliff into imo obstruction and hindering territory (for which I hope she is punished).

After thinking about three interviews with law enforcement full of lies from MT the only thing my simple brain can believe is that the lies continued because she saw no way out to connect her many lies to anything closely resembling the truth because the truth was so awful, so horrfic and so damning as to her role that she simply had no way out. Effectively the lies were bad but the truth would have her sitting in a CT prison for the rest of her sorry life with no possibility of parole ever.

Given how hard TP has worked to toss the MT interviews it now looks likely that the States case will be to simply figuratively tie MT to a stake and light it up via mounds and mounds of evidence explaining exactly why she saw lying as the only way out of her problems.

I fully expect to possibly see much more direct participation and action by MT than we all ever imagined. Just recall her classic statement of, “….I didn’t clean Jennifer….”. No matter imo if you put that statement into English, Spanish or even chinese it doesn’t translate well for MT, especially if you assume alternative meanings for “clean”. Buckle up.

I say of virtually every criminal that they forget what they aren't supposed to know.

Let me explain.

JFd was missing. That's all anyone was supposed to know. Missing people are usually found, off doing something. They weren't missing, they knew where they were.

So the task is to locate them. As we saw in the SMorphew case, everyone was frantic to locate SM, racking brains to guess where she might be. As people do. Most people want their missing person found. It was only the husband who led with reasons why she would be gone for good.

IMO FD and MT led with alibis. You don't need an alibi if there's no crime. You don't need an alibi if the missing person is sidelined somewhere with a running injury.

They led with alibis, scripts, selfies and lies.

Granted we haven't heard entire interviews or much from FD at all, but you know what we haven't heard a word of? -- genuine effort to help locate JFd. Phone numbers of friends, awareness of any of her routines, brainstorming.

FD's text exchange with LA is glaring for the same reason. He's asking her if there's any news (knowing full well JFd isn't going to be found, not readily anyway). Not one word in those texts of what he's accomplished in trying to find her so far and of what he's tackling next. No list of hospitals called, no list of contacts called, no game plan to help search.

FD and MT forgot what they weren't supposed to know. They forgot to take on the roles of worried family members, desperate to help in any way possible. Did you check here? Could she be there? Who else might know where she could be?

The natural checklist for families with missing persons who want them found.

Welp.

JMO

 

[afitzy]

I say of virtually every criminal that they forget what they aren't supposed to know.

Let me explain.

JFd was missing. That's all anyone was supposed to know. Missing people are usually found, off doing something. They weren't missing, they knew where they were.

So the task is to locate them. As we saw in the SMorphew case, everyone was frantic to locate SM, racking brains to guess where she might be. As people do. Most people want their missing person found. It was only the husband who led with reasons why she would be gone for good.

IMO FD and MT led with alibis. You don't need an alibi if there's no crime. You don't need an alibi if the missing person is sidelined somewhere with a running injury.

They led with alibis, scripts, selfies and lies.

Granted we haven't heard entire interviews or much from FD at all, but you know what we haven't heard a word of -- genuine effort to help locate JFd. Phone numbers of friends, awareness of any of her routines, brainstorming.

FD's text exchange with LA is glaring for the same reason. He's asking her if there's any news (knowing full well JFd isn't going to be found, not readily anyway). Not one word in those texts if what he's accomplished in trying to find her. No list of hospitals called, no list of contacts called.

FD and MT forgot what they weren't supposed to know. They forgot to take on the roles of worried family members, desperate to help in any way possible. Did you check here? Could she be there? Who else might know where she could be?

The natural checklist for families with missing persons who want them found.

Welp.

JMO

The Morphew parallels are interesting and real as you point out. As we heard at trial and as you point out, the only folks looking for JF were LA, GF and her friends. These were the people that cared.

Zero help or caring from any of the 3 conspirators as you astutely point out. None. But what is worse in a way is that I believe we will see evidence to support obstruction and hindering and in many respects, given the circumstance, I believe these activities transcend evil and places these individuals into the “monster” category.

The point you make about FD and MT not showing any level of care and concern for the missing person is why I felt long ago that we were looking at murder and not missing. In missing cases it’s usually pretty clear who is feeling emotion and who isn’t. When you see the people in the case that should be positioned to help to then choose not to help it’s a big red flag and I do credit NCPD for jumping on this fact quickly.

Neither FD nor MT ever showed any care or concern for JF. None and not ever. They imo aren’t wired for empathy and certainly not for caring. They were driven by hate, greed, jealousy, anger and entitlement and acted in a monstrous way that deserves imo serious punishment.

Even the FD calls for his caring about his children fell short and rang hollow and the look in his eyes at the time was imo dead eyes. The children were simply his next tool to torture GF and get access to cash.

I have no words for any of the conspirators here other than evil. Evil pure and simple. No caring, no emotion, no remorse other than being caught and they all had the “dead eyes” usually seen in evil doers too imo! For those with doubt on this I would refer you to the early mug shots. The crew knew they were caught and there was no way out.

If we see any claims in this sorry trial that MT is a loving and good mother I will simply spit bullets! At no point in all of this did MT ever care about anyone else other than MT and possibly her murderous lover. It’s all the more stunning because as we now have confirmed, MT knew the two older children for at least two years before she picked up and moved to Farmington with her daughter. MT didn’t care about the Dulos children and she certainly did care about JF.

 

[afitzy]

I find this trial oddly conversational. JS objecting, the Judge rewording it into proper form, sidebars that are open bars, objections to evidence in front of the jurors. Said it upthread, it feels like a mock trial, a dress rehearsal. Which I hope it isn't.

Hoping it gains some real momentum this week. Maybe it will feel like seeing one's life flash before one's eyes for MT. Like a video reel. Only it's CCTV. And CCTV doesn't lie.

Some Albany Avenue, some Home Depot, maybe some car washing and car jockeying. Peculiar maneuvers for a passive sidepiece.

What? No selfie at Home Depot?

What nonsense will JS try to spin to get MT's DNA admixed with JFd's on the same trash bag? Maybe the Easter Bunny is responsible for that too.

You have to suspend all decency to get inside the mind of the MT. You have to suspend the TRUTH to get inside JS's.

 JMO

Bravo/a!

You win quote of the trial:

“You have to suspend all decency to get inside the mind of the MT. You have to suspend the TRUTH to get inside JS's.”.

Perfection. Simply no other word works imo!

 

[afitzy]

We can be reasonably certain that if the Fudge story is true, LE know all about it. They have the footage from the relevant time. Fudge stained his street clothes searching through the garbage bins. Then, his clothes were stored for him during a brief incarceration per the story. The story could only have gotten to the press via LE, no need for the other way around.

I don't see much reason to doubt the story.

MOO

Still don’t know about this entire situation. Pattis was desperate to create chaos at the time. But you could be right. DA was a tool of both LE and Pattis although I’m inclined to believe it was Pattis as the gag order was in place if I recall. Don’t know if LE wanted to incur wrath of judge for disregarding ruling by leaking to DA. It was all quite messy during this period..

 

[Ruminations]

Still don’t know about this entire situation. Pattis was desperate to create chaos at the time. But you could be right. DA was a tool of both LE and Pattis although I’m inclined to believe it was Pattis as the gag order was in place if I recall. Don’t know if LE wanted to incur wrath of judge for disregarding ruling by leaking to DA. It was all quite messy during this period..

Do you think the Fudge story benefitted Dulos?

I think it is quite incriminating, given the video evidence of Dulos and Troconis touring Hartford garbage cans.

The only benefit to Patti's/Dulos that I can imagine is releasing the story as an attempt to locate the alleged knife before LE. That woukd be quite unethical to help one's client find and disappear evidence. But Dulos was already under investigation of doing exactly that (not to mention murder) and we would later learn about apparent possessions of GP., suggesting this could be a strategy Patti's would be willing to implement.

MOO

 

[afitzy]

Do you think the Fudge story benefitted Dulos?

I think it is quite incriminating, given the video evidence of Dulos and Troconis touring Hartford garbage cans.

The only benefit to Patti's/Dulos that I can imagine is releasing the story as an attempt to locate the alleged knife before LE. That woukd be quite unethical to help one's client find and disappear evidence. But Dulos was already under investigation of doing exactly that (not to mention murder) and we would later learn about apparent possessions of GP., suggesting this could be a strategy Patti's would be willing to implement.

MOO

Imo entirely possible for Pattis to undertake his own investigation and at one point they had an investigator before the money ran out. Perhaps they found the knife and other evidence? Would they turn it over to law enforcement? Imo doubtful.

My long ago speculation was that they found the knife and invented Fudge to disappear the knife. This seemed far fetched and improbable but in line with what I believe the ethical boundaries of the folks involved might be.

Hope we learn more at trial. Maybe whatever evidence might have been turned was looked at by law enforcement. This entire case suffers greatly from extensive tampering and hindering and remember the long time it took to get the AAs and arrest the conspirators? During that time so much damage could have been done and probably was by all 3 participants here. I hope the state details it all piece by piece and in HD!

Sadly I don’t think anything was turned over to law enforcement if it existed as we then had the case of TP/Schoenhorn withholding evidence he received for over a year and then using another attorney to hand it in the law enforcement. Yep. Held on to case evidence for a year. No consequences. No charges to the Bar. The clown still has his license and we are are being tortured by listening to him. Evidence he had for a year was excluded from trial too. State tried to have him dismissed but failed. I don’t recall if this ruling was judge Randolph but it wouldn’t surprise me as judge Randolph was same judge that excluded MT cell. My impression is that judge Randolph might not like the police too much and my further guess is that the feeling is mutual…..

Classic Corrupticut situation imo where bad behaviour not following the rules not only isn’t punished by the Judge but is in fact rewarded because the evidence was excluded. So disappointing but not surprising.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

Imo entirely possible for Pattis to undertake his own investigation and at one point they had an investigator before the money ran out. Perhaps they found the knife and other evidence? Would they turn it over to law enforcement? Imo doubtful.

My long ago speculation was that they found the knife and invented Fudge to disappear the knife. This seemed far fetched and improbable but in line with what I believe the ethical boundaries of the folks involved might be.

Hope we learn more at trial. Maybe whatever evidence might have been turned was looked at by law enforcement. This entire case suffers greatly from extensive tampering and hindering and remember the long time it took to get the AAs and arrest the conspirators? During that time so much damage could have been done and probably was by all 3 participants here. I hope the state details it all piece by piece and in HD!

Sadly I don’t think anything was turned over to law enforcement if it existed as we then had the case of TP/Schoenhorn withholding evidence he received for over a year and then using another attorney to hand it in the law enforcement. Yep. Held on to case evidence for a year. No consequences. No charges to the Bar. The clown still has his license and we are are being tortured by listening to him. Evidence he had for a year was excluded from trial too. State tried to have him dismissed but failed. I don’t recall if this ruling was judge Randolph but it wouldn’t surprise me as judge Randolph was same judge that excluded MT cell. My impression is that judge Randolph might not like the police too much and my further guess is that the feeling is mutual…..

Classic Corrupticut situation imo where bad behaviour not following the rules not only isn’t punished by the Judge but is in fact rewarded because the evidence was excluded. So disappointing but not surprising.

MOO

Your theory that Pattis might hide the evidence like a knife is plausible. Keeping the knife (if it exists) from LE using extra- ethical methods does comport with my knowledge of Pattis. And since we are talking about the very public figure Pattis, plausible speculation is fair game IMO.

But I don't see how it would benefit Pattis to invent Fudge. Why put it out that a knife existed, unless it was also known by Oattis that LE knew about the knife. We still don't know what weapon(s) were used in the murder- there is no benefit to Fotis Dulos to name one. If the knife existed and were known, why put it out that anyone handled it, unless that was already known by LE?

A knife does seem plausible to me. It also seems plausible that Fotis Dulos intended to use a knife to threaten and aid in an abduction. If he had intended to kill her on scene, surely he'd have been a little better prepared with spatter control and cleanup materials- and perhaps materials that would kill leaving fewer bodily fluids around.

The murderer may have over estimated his knife's ability to obtain compliance.

Also, I think it is highly unlikely Fotis carried a gun to the scene because if he had, mentioning his gun ownership would not be prejudicial. It would be relevant to proving the case.

And he'd need some kind of plan to subdue JFD. Either he'd have to threaten her to comply or overpower her and restrain her using surprise to his advantage. I think he either messed up the surprise thing, such as by making noise in the garage, and switched to the bloody plan B, or didn't try it at all, thinking JFD would comply by knife point.

However it went down, offering the police any leads to a weapon would not benefit the defense that I can see.

MOO


Edited to add: it could be that Fotis Dulos and Pattis were aware that a knife was discarded in Hartford, and wanted to tease out a confirmation from LE that they recovered the knife (gulp) or did not (the whole knife thing was a silly rumor!)

That does make much more sense to me than just filling airwaves with incriminating rumors that otherwise only harm F. Dulos. They could have been trying to decide how to handle the knife evidence if, indeed, there was going to be knife evidence to explain.

I doubt very highly LE does not know who fudge is, as he was reportedly incarcerated for a short time. (You don't readily spring a John Doe. Or a Fudge.) The story, as told, does not include anything that Fudge would lie about. And I'm sure LE asked him about it.

What makes sense to me is Patti's may have been trying to find out what LE knew about the knife. It does not make sense to me that Fudge is a fabrication of Pattis'.

MOO