Czech Republic - Jane Doe, deceased, possibly falsely IDd as Alice Billing, 4 March 2012

[mrazda71]

I remembered reading that @HLC35 is a "super recogniser" and might be able to help with determining if the two photos are Alice or not.

They posted about their skill in this post here

I have some ability in that area too and while I admit, I haven't read the thread at all (I chose not to before looking at the pics so as not to cloud my opinion) I don't think the 2 people in the image at the start of thread are the same person.

They look glaringly different to me (personally) though a similar hairstyle and colouring and the same pose of course.

 

[Tortoise]

I have some ability in that area too and while I admit, I haven't read the thread at all (I chose not to before looking at the pics so as not to cloud my opinion) I don't think the 2 people in the image at the start of thread are the same person.

They look glaringly different to me (personally) though a similar hairstyle and colouring and the same pose of course.

What about these two mrazda?

link to post #11

I think there are strong similarities around the eyebrow shape and upper eye areas.

 

[Bit of hope]

I still wondering about the so called "sagging" of the face....That's what I noticed the most about the 2011 "Alice's passport picture" My grandmother had it...my mother had it...and me starting to get it. It changes you looks completely. Looking back to Aunt Marie....she had the same optical sagging...kind of face...

 

[mrazda71]

What about these two mrazda?

link to post #11

I think there are strong similarities around the eyebrow shape and upper eye areas.

The image quality isn't great but ... There are some compatible features in these 2 images but, I'd still say that they're not the same person based on features overall.

 

[MyCousinAlice]

It looks like Alice had pierced eyes (by lots of pictures of her) and was wearing earrings most of the times. Nothing was mentioned about that in the autopsy rapport. I'm not sure not pierced ears would have been mention by a coroner. I can imagine pierced ears would have been mentioned. Post mortem picture of Jane Doe shows no earrings. Picture is to grainy to see if her ears wear pierced. I feel sad for you LE didn't released the video taken in her apartment. I would love to see the pictures on the wall.

>>>WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT<<<

Find attached both CSI postmortem photographs. I hope the resolution is better. I was told that these are the only photographs of the body that the Police will release.

I’d say that Jane Doe’s earlobes were pierced. What do you say?

Notice the size and shape of Jane Doe’s left earlobe and compare it to Alice’s elongated earlobes. You may have to go to that Facebook account for more pics of Alice.

The nose: I hope that you can visualize Jane Doe’s face in 3-d with these two CSI pics. Does anybody have software that can assist?

Jane Doe’s nose has not been disfigured from anything like a pillow pushing up or down against it, as the frontal photograph demonstrates.

Alice did not have a profound “aquiline” nose, but maybe she has at least a subtle one, a slight “Roman” nose? Jane Doe on the other hand seems to have maybe a “Greek” or straight nose?

How about the shape of the jaws or the shape of the heads? I think Alice’s head is more “squat” and “round” with her jaws more of a “V” shape, while Jane Doe’s head seems more “narrower and taller” and her jaws more “square”.

 

[MyCousinAlice]

It looks like Alice had pierced eyes (by lots of pictures of her) and was wearing earrings most of the times. Nothing was mentioned about that in the autopsy rapport. I'm not sure not pierced ears would have been mention by a coroner. I can imagine pierced ears would have been mentioned. Post mortem picture of Jane Doe shows no earrings. Picture is to grainy to see if her ears wear pierced. I feel sad for you LE didn't released the video taken in her apartment. I would love to see the pictures on the wall.

Some more pics of Alice.

 

[Catmommy]

Difficult to compare since none of the pictures are in the same aspect as those of the corpse. That said, based on what I can compare, the left eyebrows (her left) and the upper lips appear very similar to me in pictures of Alice and the body. Nares can provide very good identifying features but none of the pics of Alice give a good example of her nares since her nose is pointed down and we can't see the actual nostril hole shape.

 

[MyCousinAlice]

RE: Better Samples of 2006 Alice and 2011 Jane Doe Passport Photographs

To comply with TOS and to preserve as much photographic detail as possible, I zoomed in on the photographs of each passport and used the “Snipping Tool”.

I saved each snip under its unique name, identifying the year and who. Here is the list:

2006 Alice as she appeared on her 2006 Passport.

2011 Jane Doe over-exposed in a black and white scan from Alice’s 2011 Passport. Because of server memory upload limitations, I had to convert this to PDF format.

2011 Jane Doe in an unfocused photograph from Alice’s 2011 Passport.

COMMENT:

This is a non-exhaustive list of features:

Although the eyebrows appear “similar” they are not the same. Jane Doe’s eyebrows taper off and become very thin from halfway to their outer ends; Alice’s eyebrows are thick all the way to their outer ends. You should be able to see this on other photographs of Alice.

You can see Jane Doe’s nares in her 2011 passport pic but you can’t see Alice’s nares on Alice’s 2006 passport pic because they have different noses.

Alice’s jaws are a “V” shape; Jane Doe’s jaws are a “square” shape.

Alice always had a “lazy” left eye; Jane Doe does not appear to have such a “lazy” eye.

What I mean by “lazy eye”: The eyelids to Alice’s left eye are almost half-way shut as compared to the eyelids of her right eye. You can see this consistently on other photographs of Alice.

The foreheads don’t match: Alice’s forehead appears wide and “squat” while Jane Doe’s forehead appears narrow and “tall”.

 

[Catmommy]

Because the chin is held higher in the 2011 pics and appears to be tucked in the 2006, the aspect of the passport pics is off as well. I can see a "lazy" left eye in all three photos though the clarity could be the reason. These are my observations only and mean nothing except that.

 

[MyCousinAlice]

The image quality isn't great but ... There are some compatible features in these 2 images but, I'd still say that they're not the same person based on features overall.

Attached are the two photographs that I merged into that one slide (I call it a “slide” because I used editing tools to merge two photographs into one; if somebody with more expertise can clarify what this should now be called, please advise; otherwise I will keep calling these a “slide”) which I attached to post #11.

One attachment can be referred to as the "2006 individual" or "2006 Alice Passport" and the other attachment as the "2011 individual" or "2011 Jane Doe".

There are two same photographs of the 2011 individual, attached. One looks like a photograph of the 2011 passport and the other looks like a "black and white scan" of the 2011 passport.

Just to confirm, in your opinion the "2006" individual is not the same as the "2011" individual?

 

[MyCousinAlice]

I still wondering about the so called "sagging" of the face....That's what I noticed the most about the 2011 "Alice's passport picture" My grandmother had it...my mother had it...and me starting to get it. It changes you looks completely. Looking back to Aunt Marie....she had the same optical sagging...kind of face...

Are you trying to correlate this to the 2019 photograph of what I say is Alice, or just a general comment on aging?

 

[MyCousinAlice]

I have some ability in that area too and while I admit, I haven't read the thread at all (I chose not to before looking at the pics so as not to cloud my opinion) I don't think the 2 people in the image at the start of thread are the same person.

They look glaringly different to me (personally) though a similar hairstyle and colouring and the same pose of course.

If you read the thread by now then I can add to the story behind the 2019 siting, since I haven't posted that yet; some members may have discovered that on their own and are invited to post what they found out.

 

[Catmommy]

RE: First to Find the Body.

(snipped by me for focus)

In 2019 I and a family member called the now retired detective, Komisar Petr Michal of the Czech Police. Komisar Michal said that the body was “positively identified” as Alice by (1) Alice’s husband, (2) their adult son (and only child), and (3) their former au Pair. Komisar Michal also pointed out that all of the family portraits in the home had the decedent’s face on them, as well as on a Passport which was reissued on December 2, 2011. So I can accept that, from the perspective of the Czech Police, they probably felt no need to invite EC to identify the body.

The face on the 2011 Passport does have Alice’s bio data and signature, but the photograph is Jane Doe. The police also seized Alice’s expired 2006 Passport and 2007 Driver’s License: these two documents have Alice’s bio data, signature and photograph.

(snipped by me)

I'm understanding that Alice's body was identified by her husband, her son and their former Au Pair. I'm understanding that all the passports, including the one whose pictured is questioned, had Alice's signature. This being true, why is Alice's demise in question? Please don't interpret this as argumentative, I'm really trying to understand what we are doing here.

 

[Tortoise]

In my opinion the woman in the 2011 passport photo is Alice. She has a mole, or raised blemish on the left chin area, which is also apparent in the post mortem photo, and is noticeable in some of Alice's photos, particularly photos 1, 3 and 4 attached to post #86 above.

I think her eyes, eyelids and the area of the bridge of her nose/between her eyebrows are very distinctive and appear to me to be the same in both passport photos, also the eyebrow shape and her method of application of eyeliner. The main difference between the photos to me is the angle of the shot. Her face looks slightly longer and more chiselled in the 2011 passport but that could be down to any number of reasons; different hairstyle, the angle, a difference in weight, and because she's not smiling which would give her cheeks apples. The slightly longer and squarer jaw is also more apparent in Alice's photos 2007 003.png and 002.png (the last two attachments on post #85 above)

 

[Bit of hope]

Are you trying to correlate this to the 2019 photograph of what I say is Alice, or just a general comment on aging?

No. I'm still trying to figure out why the face on the 2011 passport looks different and you think it's not Alice, but another woman; "Jane Doe". When did you last see Alice in real life...what is the most recent picture you are sure that it's Alice c.q. from what year? Could her face had began sagging, making her jaw look more square, like her mother's. Also pondering on the why she had a Swedish passport in 2011. She was born in Czech Republic, lived in Germany, was married to a Swedish man once, but that marriage ended in 1993 or so. Did she changed nationality, did she had two passports. I really don't know how this works. This are the rules for applying for a Swedish passport. Passport and National ID card | The Swedish Police Authority

The thing is, when applying for a new passport you have to proof you are you with different documents and pictures will be taken of you there and then and compared with your face. I just don't get it that a totally different person applying would slip through the cracks that easy. Meaning getting a picture of a totally different person on your official document like that. Or.....is it a counter-fitted passport, bought on the black market? I know that can be bought and it happens that people have 'a look alike' on it. This happens with fraudulent intentions for lots of reasons.

 

[MyCousinAlice]

I'm understanding that Alice's body was identified by her husband, her son and their former Au Pair. I'm understanding that all the passports, including the one whose pictured is questioned, had Alice's signature. This being true, why is Alice's demise in question? Please don't interpret this as argumentative, I'm really trying to understand what we are doing here.

1. You said “I'm understanding that Alice's body was identified by her husband, her son and their former Au Pair. I'm understanding that all the passports, including the one whose pictured is questioned, had Alice's signature. This being true[.]”

2. Obviously you don’t agree with mrazda71 that Jane Doe is not Alice.

3. And you don’t agree with the fact that Mr. Gibson, the facial analyst who provided his written report, concluded that Jane Doe is not Alice.

4. Alice was the sole trustee of the family art collection trust when she “died”.

5. When Alice “died” the collection disappeared.

6. This collection was worth over $3 billion. Not million: Billion.

7. One-half of that collection belongs to me and my immediate family.

8. Would $1.5 billion be enough motive for Alice to fake her own death?

9. Give me one good reason why I should trust anything “being true” if it came from Alice, TB, AAB or IK.

 

[MyCousinAlice]

In my opinion the woman in the 2011 passport photo is Alice. She has a mole, or raised blemish on the left chin area, which is also apparent in the post mortem photo, and is noticeable in some of Alice's photos, particularly photos 1, 3 and 4 attached to post #86 above.

I think her eyes, eyelids and the area of the bridge of her nose/between her eyebrows are very distinctive and appear to me to be the same in both passport photos, also the eyebrow shape and her method of application of eyeliner. The main difference between the photos to me is the angle of the shot. Her face looks slightly longer and more chiselled in the 2011 passport but that could be down to any number of reasons; different hairstyle, the angle, a difference in weight, and because she's not smiling which would give her cheeks apples. The slightly longer and squarer jaw is also more apparent in Alice's photos 2007 003.png and 002.png (the last two attachments on post #85 above)

Assuming that we are looking at the same photographs and at the same suspected “blemish”:

I would say that Alice’s “blemish” is closer to her chin and further down the side of the jaw.

According to the police records, Jane Doe had dried vomit on her face when this CSI photograph was taken, so I can’t tell whether this “blemish” is a zit, a mole, or dried vomit debris.

 

[Catmommy]

Why would Alice's death negate your family's claim on half the art collection? Trustees have specific duties and responsibilities to beneficiaries and other members of the trust. Was she a legally designated trustee or was her conservatorship just an agreement between her and your father? The point is that if she was the legal trustee of the art assets, her estate could be held accountable for the half your side of the family hasn't received. If she wasn't and everything was in her possession and control she wouldn't have to fake her death. How does faking death hide the assets? Is there a list of the treasures?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Hi @MyCousinAlice , I’m trying to catch up on all the details but, quick question...

In your first post you showed us the two images - one of actual Alice from 2007 and one of someone on social media in 2019. Can you tell us more about the circumstances of the 2019 photo? Because if that’s Alice, why would she be walking about looking exactly like, erm, Alice? Surely, if she’d pulled off this stunt for whatever reason, she’d be going to huge lengths to change her appearance (with her money she could look like anyone!) to avoid being busted.

Sorry if this has already been addressed, but if so I’ve not spotted it yet and it was the first thing that sprang to mind.

 

[MyCousinAlice]

Hi @MyCousinAlice , I’m trying to catch up on all the details but, quick question...

In your first post you showed us the two images - one of actual Alice from 2007 and one of someone on social media in 2019. Can you tell us more about the circumstances of the 2019 photo? Because if that’s Alice, why would she be walking about looking exactly like, erm, Alice? Surely, if she’d pulled off this stunt for whatever reason, she’d be going to huge lengths to change her appearance (with her money she could look like anyone!) to avoid being busted.

Sorry if this has already been addressed, but if so I’ve not spotted it yet and it was the first thing that sprang to mind.

<modsnip> The social event where this 2019 photograph was taken, was an art exhibit of pop artist and public figure AM’s work. AM's real name is AA. Do the TOS allow us to spell out the names of public figures?

AM and Alice’s son, AAB, are “besties” AKA “best friends”. Knowing this, I was paying particular attention to AM’s social media footprints because of the obvious (ask me in private chat), and although it took a while, sure enough, there is Alice in the background of an AM social media posting.

I will not speculate on an open post about what I think is “really” going on between Alice-AAB and AM – I don’t have any first-hand knowledge anyhow. But AM’s success seems to have skyrocketed ever since he met AAB.

Why would Alice be walking about looking exactly like herself? I don’t know. Nostalgia? Acute narcissism disorder? <modsnip>

Maybe Alice is suffering from “megalomania”? Maybe Alice figured that she wouldn’t get caught by a camera lens or that I am “too stupid” to find her even if she does get caught on a camera or videotape? Maybe Alice feels that she is “untouchable”? Oh where are WS’s profilers? Your guess is as good as mine, CoverMeCagney.

Did you see the two men flanking Alice? Do they look like the “touristy” type or the “body guard” type?

You can see these “gentlemen” on a Facebook fan page. Just search for “Alice Billing”. Several may pop up. Look for the oval with a woman wearing a black sweater and a crucifix. On the cover page you will see her in a white laboratory-type coat with an “in loving memory of Alice Billing 1965-2012” overlay. Roll down a ways and you will find them.

Alice hijacked a family art collection trust that was worth at least $3 Bn. With that kind of money she can afford more expensive facials and manicures and pedicures than all of the Kardashians and Jenners combined. And have them done more frequently. That would explain why she looks younger than her 2007 version. A little tuck here and a little suck there, and she looks like a 30ish rather than a 54 year old with “sagging” cheeks. Unless you fall into her god-like lifestyle bracket, don’t confuse her with us mere mortals.

And before you get too fixated on that face, try considering the obvious discrepancy in the PMI and the physiological profiles and physical differences between the body and Alice: this evidence is glaring and can’t be brushed aside with casual opinions about looks.