Dallas Crim. Def. Law blog: Can Casey Anthony Get A Fair Trial and Why Should we care

  • #21
I think it's very possible she will get a fair trial, most people have not been following this case since the first few days. The people who know everything or even anything in the last month from the media are definitely a minority. Most people are worried about the economy or Ike, etc. etc. I tested this on my parents and friends by bringing up what I'd heard and was met with blank stares "Casey Anthony? Oh that mom in Florida, was that her name?" LOL.
 
  • #22
The article states "Casey Anthony is being judged on whether or not she did something to her child long before she is ever charged with a crime or made to face a jury."

Uh, she has been charged with a crime...in fact, several. Also, some directly relate to her daughter's disappearance. Plus, there are her own admissions...doesn't know where her child is, doesn't report it at all (her mother did, when she was finally told...a month later) and lying/misleading law enforcement in the investigation. I think that is reason enough to have sour feelings towards her and even, rightly or wrongly, judge her. Although, again, court is a whole 'nother matter.
 
  • #23
If OJ could get a fair trial, she can too... you don't know how many ppl I mention this case to who have no idea about it at all
I ditto that fact. I've talked to several people including a cousin out in CA and he had no idea what I was talking about. My daughter has only seen bits and pieces of it on the news. She's a 20 something, works and socializing and doesn't have time to watch tv or read the paper. So she really has no idea about the facts. There are plenty of people that don't knowabout this case and CA will get a 'fair' trial. There is evidence being held back that we are seeing. If you notice in some of the transcripts pages are missing because the prosecution has held those pages back because of some statements in them they are going to use in court.
 
  • #24
Having worked SEVERAL innocence cases in Virginia, cases where we actually got people out and found the real killer, I feel like putting my two cents in here.

The constitution and the justice system are in place for a reason. You cannot, under any circumstances chip away at our constitution in any way. Even for someone like Casey, unfortunately.

As far as this man's points, Baez, in my legal opinion (and I am not a lawyer, just have a lot of experience with them and what your rights are in criminal cases) had no right to ask that the testing be stopped. There have been no charges filed thus far, and therefore there is no right to discovery for him in that regard. That was just defense attorney garbage or what did Jose say..."grandstanding"?

The bail WAS excessive. There is no getting around that. One could argue it must not have mattered much because she got out twice! And you could also argue that bail is set to guarantee that you will be there in court and not flee. There is NO WAY this woman could flee unless she decides to take advantage of that 10 foot privacy fence and decides to tunnel to Mexico! In which case she better keep tunneling. They would send her butt back, I am sure! Clearly she is being watched at every turn. For future reference for other individuals who may not be as guilty as I believe that she will be found, that is a problem and sets a precedent for future cases. I don't know what to say about that...Casey should be assumed innocent until she has her day in court, like every other individual, but considering there is video of her cashing checks she wrote her own name on, seems she has been caught a little red handed. I have a hard time admitting that any of her constitutional rights have been violated because I feel after finding out they have the video of her on the checks, she will lose her rights anyway, as all criminals do. So that one tears me apart to admit, but it was very high for what she was charged with and it was not a victory for us that the appeals court upheld it. It set a bad precedent for others who really may be innocent.

As for stopping the tapes and the docs from being released, that is just silly! In any criminal case, once discovery has been filed with the clerks office it is PUBLIC RECORD!! You can't argue both sides of the constitutional argument. You can't say the bail should be set lower because of her rights being violated and then try to stop the public from exercising their constitutional rights to review discovery. Jose can't have it both ways.

Fair trial? Change of venue, hello!! I was just trying to explain this whole saga to someone last night who had NEVER even heard of it. There are places she can go for a change of venue and there are lots of people who don't know what we do and very few people, I would assume, outside of the few sites like this one that would actually sit down and read all of the discovery. Nancy Grace always covers big cases and they all get fair trials. I can just about guarantee you there will be a change of venue in this case and that is fine. She is an American. That doesn't mean she is a good person, just that she has the constitution to protect her and it will for as long as it should.

The founding fathers believed that it is better for 100 guilty to go free than for an innocent person to spend one day in prison. I have seen first hand what wrongfully convicted people go through. I have seen outrageous laws that never should have been passed hurt people beyond what normal people can comprehend. For example, Virginia has something called the 21 day rule. Rule 1.1 of the Virginia Supreme Court states, in a nutshell that if you are innocent and you are convicted of a crime, if there is any evidence out there that could clear you, that you know about or not, you MUST have your friends, family or defense find and obtain it within 21 days of your conviction. Anything found after that 21 days is inadmissible in ANY court and forever barred from judicial review...all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. Even they aren't allowed to look at it. We had a guy who got into a fight with his brother. Brother 2 was going through a hard time, they both went out and got drunk together, started to fight. Everyone saw them fighting and broke it up. They left after they calmed down in the same car. Next day, brother 2 was gone. Disappeared. No one could find him. Blood from the fight was in the car owned by brother number 1. Brother number 1 was tried and convicted without a body to life in prison. Brother 2 decides he is ready to face the world again and comes back home from Carolina. We drag Brother 2 into court to get Brother 1 released...denied!! Took intervention from the governor to get him out...2 YEARS LATER!!

Infringing on Casey's rights can infringe on your own and anything can happen. Just look at poor Zanny, not the nanny and everything that has happened to her! Look how we could connect ZG to Laura R and then to WW and then Casey. Look how easy it is now with the internet to connect bad people with good ones and how we all looked down on her partying friends until they came here and talked to us. Birds of a feather, right? That is a bad way to look at things. Look what could have happened to Zanny, not the nanny had Casey told the truth about everything but her!! With all of the things that could happen, I feel that our constitution must be protected at all costs. If I saw Casey's rights being violated, I have to admit that I would speak up. Not because I have any sympathy for her in any way, but because nothing that they do to her is going to bring Caylee back and I am not willing to give up my constitutional rights for her!! Or the rights of my children for the future, or any of my fellow WSers rights. It's too bad no one was looking out for Caylee's rights.

I have faith that justice will be served. Sometimes it takes a while. When we got Earl Washington Jr. out we found the real killer...it had been 18 years, but it happened. They think now they may have found out who the Zodiac Killer was (granted, again). That has been what? 40 years? Chipping away at rights and appeals are cause for mistakes to be made. Look how many innocent people have been released thanks to DNA and the Innocence Project. If an innocent is locked away because of a mistake, it not only ruins his life and that of his family, but it also give the public a false sense of security while a murderer walks the streets. It is my opinion that she is guilty as sin and should spend the rest of her life in prison thinking about what she has done, but her rights should not be violated. And from what I can tell, other than the bail, they have not been and ours have been protected in allowing us to see the discovery. I will wait however long it takes to see her locked up for good. I think the death penalty is too easy for her. I have experience with watching people who have spent years and years in prison. Most pray for death. I'd like to see her in that position, personally, with all of my rights intact and I believe I will. LE has more than they are giving us. They will do what is right and she will be convicted. Peterson was convicted on just circumstantial evidence. No sane person, whether they read what we have or not could possibly set her free. I see no need to infringe upon her rights at all. But the only one I see infringed upon so far is the bail. Not good, but not this list which is more than ridiculous.
 
  • #25
I am not concerned. Home girl will get a fair trial...she won't be waterboarded or sodium pentatholed, or hung from a rope like Sadam. She isn't currently locked up and is sleeping on clean sheets every night in her home.

She will get a fair trial.
 
  • #26
Even though people have followed this case, I would hope that the jurors would have the ability to follow the guidelines set forth by the court and make their determination of guilt or innocence based on the evidence presented in court. Forget everything that you've heard and weigh your decision based only on the facts and arguments presented at the trial. I know I would have the ability to do this, in spite of everything that I have heard and in spite of the fact that my gut tells me she is guilty. It is not my job to judge her, it would be my duty as a juror to make a decision only based on information presented in the court room.
 
  • #27
HRCODEPINK, I really enjoyed your post and hearing from the perspective of someone with your particular experience working with innocence projects. I think that is a very admirable undertaking, thank you so much for sharing.
 
  • #28
If she doesn't get a fair trial, it will be the fault of the media who have divulged every little tidbit (true and untrue) they can gleen about this case. How many other families do you know who have a TV camera pointed at their home 24/7 for weeks? First, it has to go to trial and that may never happen.
 
  • #29
Even though people have followed this case, I would hope that the jurors would have the ability to follow the guidelines set forth by the court and make their determination of guilt or innocence based on the evidence presented in court. Forget everything that you've heard and weigh your decision based only on the facts and arguments presented at the trial. I know I would have the ability to do this, in spite of everything that I have heard and in spite of the fact that my gut tells me she is guilty. It is not my job to judge her, it would be my duty as a juror to make a decision only based on information presented in the court room.

I think you are amazing! The constitution is my most valuable possession. I would ask to be excluded for sure. As much as I would love to be sitting there for every minute, I can't say that I have not judged her in my mind from what I have seen and if she is not found guilty of harming that child I will have the second OJ is not guilty moment of my life! I don't even take anything into account that I have seen on Nancy G when making that assumption and I don't think that assumption could be reversed unless someone else came forward and admitted to the crime and handed LE the body...and then I would probably still think Casey helped! Part of being a good juror is knowing when you have heard to much and stepping down when need be, no matter how much you want to be there. I would have to step down. She couldn't get a fair trial from me and I am more concerned with protecting the Constitution than my selfish greedy need for more gossip on the A's, lol.
 
  • #30
HRCODEPINK, I really enjoyed your post and hearing from the perspective of someone with your particular experience working with innocence projects. I think that is a very admirable undertaking, thank you so much for sharing.

I find all of this stuff so fascinating! I can't wait for trial and hope it is televised! I will be so in my element then and am dying to see every minute of it!! It is awesome when you have as much info as we do and know what everything at trial means so that you know what is going on. I was in court today and the defendant asked for a continuance. They originally set the date for mid November and my heart dropped until it was changed again. How was I ever going to tell the judge that I couldn't make that date because the Anthony trial will be on that day and if it is on TV I have to be home, lol!?!?
 
  • #31
  • #32
:steamed:

You are so right!

You are so right on a moral level. Just as innocent people are sometimes convicted, guilty sometimes walk. Constitutionally he got a fair trial and it was the fault of LE that he went free. We can still say he was guilty without violating his rights because he was found guilty in the civil suit. LE tampered with evidence and forgot the rules on chain of custody. When that happens to an innocent person, it could land them in prison or on death row and I hoped that it would send a message to LE in CA...apparently not tho (i couldn't have shot my wife, I was in the restaurant getting my gun that I left there!)! When it happened to OJ, LE swung the door wide open and sent an engraved invitation to reasonable doubt. Remember the sock?? Really??? Thank goodness YM is no Mark Furhman (Sp?). I don't believe we will have that to worry about in this case.
 
  • #33
I agree with everything stated in the posted link...:twocents:
 
  • #34
My opinion has changed a couple hundred times based on information provided in the press, interviews on NG, and of course WS'sers. So I believe no matter what I currently think, I can be convinced of something else based on new information provided at the trial.

Now we have a person lying to police officers about every aspect in this case and has had no idea where her daughter is for over three months. AND she is sitting at home surfing the web!

I'd say the law has been kind to Ms. Anthony
 
  • #35
Having worked SEVERAL innocence cases in Virginia, cases where we actually got people out and found the real killer, I feel like putting my two cents in here.

The constitution and the justice system are in place for a reason. You cannot, under any circumstances chip away at our constitution in any way. Even for someone like Casey, unfortunately.

As far as this man's points, Baez, in my legal opinion (and I am not a lawyer, just have a lot of experience with them and what your rights are in criminal cases) had no right to ask that the testing be stopped. There have been no charges filed thus far, and therefore there is no right to discovery for him in that regard. That was just defense attorney garbage or what did Jose say..."grandstanding"?

The bail WAS excessive. There is no getting around that. One could argue it must not have mattered much because she got out twice! And you could also argue that bail is set to guarantee that you will be there in court and not flee. There is NO WAY this woman could flee unless she decides to take advantage of that 10 foot privacy fence and decides to tunnel to Mexico! In which case she better keep tunneling. They would send her butt back, I am sure! Clearly she is being watched at every turn. For future reference for other individuals who may not be as guilty as I believe that she will be found, that is a problem and sets a precedent for future cases. I don't know what to say about that...Casey should be assumed innocent until she has her day in court, like every other individual, but considering there is video of her cashing checks she wrote her own name on, seems she has been caught a little red handed. I have a hard time admitting that any of her constitutional rights have been violated because I feel after finding out they have the video of her on the checks, she will lose her rights anyway, as all criminals do. So that one tears me apart to admit, but it was very high for what she was charged with and it was not a victory for us that the appeals court upheld it. It set a bad precedent for others who really may be innocent.

As for stopping the tapes and the docs from being released, that is just silly! In any criminal case, once discovery has been filed with the clerks office it is PUBLIC RECORD!! You can't argue both sides of the constitutional argument. You can't say the bail should be set lower because of her rights being violated and then try to stop the public from exercising their constitutional rights to review discovery. Jose can't have it both ways.

Fair trial? Change of venue, hello!! I was just trying to explain this whole saga to someone last night who had NEVER even heard of it. There are places she can go for a change of venue and there are lots of people who don't know what we do and very few people, I would assume, outside of the few sites like this one that would actually sit down and read all of the discovery. Nancy Grace always covers big cases and they all get fair trials. I can just about guarantee you there will be a change of venue in this case and that is fine. She is an American. That doesn't mean she is a good person, just that she has the constitution to protect her and it will for as long as it should.

The founding fathers believed that it is better for 100 guilty to go free than for an innocent person to spend one day in prison. I have seen first hand what wrongfully convicted people go through. I have seen outrageous laws that never should have been passed hurt people beyond what normal people can comprehend. For example, Virginia has something called the 21 day rule. Rule 1.1 of the Virginia Supreme Court states, in a nutshell that if you are innocent and you are convicted of a crime, if there is any evidence out there that could clear you, that you know about or not, you MUST have your friends, family or defense find and obtain it within 21 days of your conviction. Anything found after that 21 days is inadmissible in ANY court and forever barred from judicial review...all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. Even they aren't allowed to look at it. We had a guy who got into a fight with his brother. Brother 2 was going through a hard time, they both went out and got drunk together, started to fight. Everyone saw them fighting and broke it up. They left after they calmed down in the same car. Next day, brother 2 was gone. Disappeared. No one could find him. Blood from the fight was in the car owned by brother number 1. Brother number 1 was tried and convicted without a body to life in prison. Brother 2 decides he is ready to face the world again and comes back home from Carolina. We drag Brother 2 into court to get Brother 1 released...denied!! Took intervention from the governor to get him out...2 YEARS LATER!!

Infringing on Casey's rights can infringe on your own and anything can happen. Just look at poor Zanny, not the nanny and everything that has happened to her! Look how we could connect ZG to Laura R and then to WW and then Casey. Look how easy it is now with the internet to connect bad people with good ones and how we all looked down on her partying friends until they came here and talked to us. Birds of a feather, right? That is a bad way to look at things. Look what could have happened to Zanny, not the nanny had Casey told the truth about everything but her!! With all of the things that could happen, I feel that our constitution must be protected at all costs. If I saw Casey's rights being violated, I have to admit that I would speak up. Not because I have any sympathy for her in any way, but because nothing that they do to her is going to bring Caylee back and I am not willing to give up my constitutional rights for her!! Or the rights of my children for the future, or any of my fellow WSers rights. It's too bad no one was looking out for Caylee's rights.

I have faith that justice will be served. Sometimes it takes a while. When we got Earl Washington Jr. out we found the real killer...it had been 18 years, but it happened. They think now they may have found out who the Zodiac Killer was (granted, again). That has been what? 40 years? Chipping away at rights and appeals are cause for mistakes to be made. Look how many innocent people have been released thanks to DNA and the Innocence Project. If an innocent is locked away because of a mistake, it not only ruins his life and that of his family, but it also give the public a false sense of security while a murderer walks the streets. It is my opinion that she is guilty as sin and should spend the rest of her life in prison thinking about what she has done, but her rights should not be violated. And from what I can tell, other than the bail, they have not been and ours have been protected in allowing us to see the discovery. I will wait however long it takes to see her locked up for good. I think the death penalty is too easy for her. I have experience with watching people who have spent years and years in prison. Most pray for death. I'd like to see her in that position, personally, with all of my rights intact and I believe I will. LE has more than they are giving us. They will do what is right and she will be convicted. Peterson was convicted on just circumstantial evidence. No sane person, whether they read what we have or not could possibly set her free. I see no need to infringe upon her rights at all. But the only one I see infringed upon so far is the bail. Not good, but not this list which is more than ridiculous.


Well said! I have been saing these very things on SEVERAL posts here. We must protect her rights for the sake of losing our own!

http://www.news-journalonline.com/newsjournalonline/breakingnews/mcduffy092908.htm

This man FROM ORLANDO btw jsut got a change in Venue for his trial
"DELAND -- The retrial of an Orlando man accused of killing two Deltona discount store clerks will be moved out of Volusia County, a judge ruled this morning. "
 
  • #36
You are so right on a moral level. Just as innocent people are sometimes convicted, guilty sometimes walk. Constitutionally he got a fair trial and it was the fault of LE that he went free. We can still say he was guilty without violating his rights because he was found guilty in the civil suit. LE tampered with evidence and forgot the rules on chain of custody. When that happens to an innocent person, it could land them in prison or on death row and I hoped that it would send a message to LE in CA...apparently not tho (i couldn't have shot my wife, I was in the restaurant getting my gun that I left there!)! When it happened to OJ, LE swung the door wide open and sent an engraved invitation to reasonable doubt. Remember the sock?? Really??? Thank goodness YM is no Mark Furhman (Sp?). I don't believe we will have that to worry about in this case.

I do agree that he got a fair trial. I read the book recently from the guy who helped him get rid of evidence and hide things. He said they told OJ not take his arthritis medicine for quite a while prior to trying on the glove. His ex friend says it would have fit if he taken his medicine. So I dont think it was all bungling by LE....
 
  • #37
To repeat again (see my post above) the court doesn't have to find jurors who haven't read or heard anything about the case. They only have to find jurors who say they won't let anything they have heard or read influence their decision.


This is so true. I recently was chosen on a jury on an assault/battery case. I was not aware until the first day on the jury that this crime took place on my street. I had heard about it but not in any detail, but it was my responsibility to make the judge aware that it did take place on my street. They dismissed me not because of how I may vote on that jury, but because it would have given the accused a reason to call a mistrial if they had come upon that info on their own. So, the accused really has the advantage in a lot of ways if your i's aren't dotted and your t's aren't crossed.
 
  • #38
I do agree that he got a fair trial. I read the book recently from the guy who helped him get rid of evidence and hide things. He said they told OJ not take his arthritis medicine for quite a while prior to trying on the glove. His ex friend says it would have fit if he taken his medicine. So I dont think it was all bungling by LE....

Not to mention that when leather is soaked in blood, they tend to shrink because of the salt content in that much blood. The defense didn't do their homework on that little detail. There aren't any bloody gloves in this case, just a track record for a lot of talking on the phone. I really think if WS'ers keep on those cell phone pings and can map everything out, we might pinpoint where Caylee may be.
 
  • #39
Not to mention that when leather is soaked in blood, they tend to shrink because of the salt content in that much blood. The defense didn't do their homework on that little detail. There aren't any bloody gloves in this case, just a track record for a lot of talking on the phone. I really think if WS'ers keep on those cell phone pings and can map everything out, we might pinpoint where Caylee may be.


sigh... ok was gonna ignore the oj remarks but I have always said, THEY ARE DRIVING GLOVES! lol

Driving gloves are MEANT to be tight!!! they are so you can maneuver without the gloves losing grip and prevent your hand from sloshing around inside them.....

When I was 17 back in the day my father used driving gloves and they were tight on my hands and his are much larger!!!

This was a stupid stupid stupid point for the defense to fail on, he could have easily gotten those gloves on all the way he should have never been allowed to try that in court in the first place.

I have tried on pants that I did not like when my mother wanted to buy them when I was a child, I HATED them and pretended as I put them on that they were tight and was having a hard time slipping them on.. see they don't fit we need to keep looking!!!!!!!!

If this is the point the jury aqquited n they are dumb imho but hey who am I to say?

AND I believe once he tried on the gloves he was giving testimony and they should have been allowed at that point to question him. He should have NEVER been permitted to pull that stunt in the trial NEVER. They could not ask him ANYTHING about that situation, well OJ did you not use your drugs so your hands got puffy???? NOT ONE WORD could they ask him..... That was testimony, it may not have been verbal but it was testimnony!!!!
 
  • #40
sigh... ok was gonna ignore the oj remarks but I have always said, THEY ARE DRIVING GLOVES! lol

Driving gloves are MEANT to be tight!!! they are so you can maneuver without the gloves losing grip and prevent your hand from sloshing around inside them.....

When I was 17 back in the day my father used driving gloves and they were tight on my hands and his are much larger!!!

This was a stupid stupid stupid point for the defense to fail on, he could have easily gotten those gloves on all the way he should have never been allowed to try that in court in the first place.

I have tried on pants that I did not like when my mother wanted to buy them when I was a child, I HATED them and pretended as I put them on that they were tight and was having a hard time slipping them on.. see they don't fit we need to keep looking!!!!!!!!

If this is the point the jury aqquited n they are dumb imho but hey who am I to say?

AND I believe once he tried on the gloves he was giving testimony and they should have been allowed at that point to question him. He should have NEVER been permitted to pull that stunt in the trial NEVER. They could not ask him ANYTHING about that situation, well OJ did you not use your drugs so your hands got puffy???? NOT ONE WORD could they ask him..... That was testimony, it may not have been verbal but it was testimnony!!!!

I am sorry for getting into the OJ thing! But I totally agree here. I never bought the glove stunt at all. I can pretend gloves don't fit and I have girl hands. And I don't believe it was ONLY the bumbling with LE that set him free. Like I said, I didn't buy the gloves stunt, but IIRC (It's been a long time and I have had a lot of babies since then--mommy mush brain sets in on some things) there were some chain of custody issues, there was blood that was missing and what I do remember the most was the LE presented a sock into evidence that was supposedly worn my OJ that had Nicole's blood on it, but the stain was the same on the top and the bottom, hence no foot could have been in it. That to me told me that someone tampered with something or something wasn't on the up and up. However, the day Earl was released I got to have lunch with Barry S and Peter N of the IP and pick their brains. Super fun opportunity BTW!! It was a really interesting afternoon, but believe...no matter how much I love, love, love them for all the good things they have done, I made sure they knew I was unimpressed with their participation in that trial.
 

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