"Damning Proof Found"

[Jdee]

I kinda sorta agree w/both of you. We need the facts, and I agree with Wudge we should deal with the facts....I also agree we should be sleuthing, but IMO you have to sleuth where the FACTS take you, not speculation, theories, guessing.

In chat last night I asked about a dozen times for every one to come forth with actual evidence we are SURE of, then we take the facts and work from there. I couldn't get anything.

In other cases we have 'worked' on we get snapsnots of docs, warrants, statements, actual press releases from reliable people involved in case....to date, I haven't seen any thing that has been FACT. The newspapers we can not rely on.

I think the parents were involved, don't get me wrong..I just think we should be sleuthing the FACTS. Doing otherwise is just making us walk around in circles guessing. IMO.

Now this does however make for a great discussion, but if you want to sleuth it, JMHO, we should sleuth with FACTS. There is a theories thread for theories, polls for guesses, where are the FACTS? (I speak of mostly evidence, we have timelines, etc, this scenario I speak of evidence)

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[christine2448]

The biggest question we've had about Madeleine- from the very start back in May- is: when was the last time someone besides a family member saw her? 131 days later, we still don't know.

I started the Where is Maddie thread and forgive me, I dont' remember the poster, but she said "the million dollar question"..I'm thinking this now is the million dollar question, last time Maddie was seen was????

 

[Jdee]

I started the Where is Maddie thread and forgive me, I dont' remember the poster, but she said "the million dollar question"..I'm thinking this now is the million dollar question, last time Maddie was seen was????

I believe it was Shazza that gave that answer. I have a deadlock mind. Sometimes it's a curse!

 

[Wudge]

I hate cryptic...what exactly are you trying to say?

Please note that if you accept or buy into media spin, you are necessarily dealing in "cryptic" that has but one purpose. i.e. excite sensibilities in exchange for ratings.

Headlines: DNA in trunk matches Madeline's DNA.

What is not said is that it is not a perfect match. How imperfect is the match? Allegedly, there was an 88% match. That would be extremely imperfect.

Of course, the 88% is pure crimetainment input, not fact, just rumor like everything else. All that we hear is basically rumor. There are no corroborated facts.

It's smart to wait for real, corroborated facts , and let empty dresses (media morons) like Nancy Grace talk to herself.

 

[Jdee]

I bow to you Wudge...

incredibly well said!

 

[narlacat]

In her picture she's reaching for her neck again, just like Patsy did ...

Geez, if the woman touches her neck it reminds you of Patsy?

That photo of kate looked nothing like the one of Patys on bended knee in front of gravestone, I fail to see the comparison.

 

[Show Me]

Wudge is fairly knowledgeable about these things. I'd prefer to hear from them about the mitochondrial DNA comparison because from what I understand this is pretty clear comparision, even using degraded samples. Aren't they able to reproduce the markers if there is a too-small sample or if its degraded?

That's what I'd like to know.

I have a problem with hair and Madeline's DNA in the tire compartment of the trunk. I believe hair and DNA can be transferred but in the tire compartment of a rented car?

Still not convinced the McCann's killed Madeline....but I haven't followed the case like many on this forum.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

That's what I'd like to know.

I have a problem with hair and Madeline's DNA in the tire compartment of the trunk. I believe hair and DNA can be transferred but in the tire compartment of a rented car?

Still not convinced the McCann's killed Madeline....but I haven't followed the case like many on this forum.

Agreed. And, if reports are true, it was a cadaver dog that hit on the DNA scent in the trunk so she was dead when she was there. It wasn't "live DNA" transferred.

 

[Wudge]

Wudge is fairly knowledgeable about these things. I'd prefer to hear from them about the mitochondrial DNA comparison because from what I understand this is pretty clear comparision, even using degraded samples. Aren't they able to reproduce the markers if there is a too-small sample or if its degraded?

We simply do not know what DNA tests they ran (nuclear or mitrochondrial)but they should not be leaking and/or reporting results from any sample that was "degraded". So I would put that thought aside. Of course, LE is not required to be truthful.

As you might have guessed, the way this story has been leaking out makes me think that the prosecutors and/or LE were telling half-truths and/or lies to try and get one of the parents to crack. I am reminded very much of JonBenet's witchhunt.

If the prosecutors had the goods, they would have arrested one or both of the parents. It's that simple.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

We simply do not know what DNA tests they ran (nuclear or mitrochondrial)but they should not be leaking and/or reporting results from any sample that was "degraded". So I would put that thought aside. Of course, LE is not required to be truthful.

As you might have guessed, the way this story has been leaking out makes me think that the prosecutors and/or LE were telling half-truths and/or lies to try and get one of the parents to crack. I am reminded very much of JonBenet's witchhunt.

If the prosecutors had the goods, they would have arrested one or both of the parents. It's that simple.

Thanks Wudge. I'm glad you're here on this one with us!!!! Good to see you my friend!

 

[Wudge]

Agreed. And, if reports are true, it was a cadaver dog that hit on the DNA scent in the trunk so she was dead when she was there. It wasn't "live DNA" transferred.

Jeanna, just to clarify, a cadaver dog can hit on a death scent only. Madeline's death scent would not be unique to her. Death scents are not unique to any person. And there are a lot of chemicals that would cause a cadaver dog to falsely hit. I doubt that anyone knows what was placed in the trunk of that car by all of its drivers.

Net, "low reliability" to say the least.

 

[Show Me]

Agreed. And, if reports are true, it was a cadaver dog that hit on the DNA scent in the trunk so she was dead when she was there. It wasn't "live DNA" transferred.

I've read reports the exact car the McCann's rented was previously rented by one of the friends the McCann's were vacationing with when Madeline disappeared. Is this really true? If so what are the odds of this happening unless the resort area only had one car company with one car to rent?

I'm also wondering why the Policia decided to search the rental car?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeanna, just to clarify, a cadaver dog can hit on a death scent only. Madeline's death scent would not be unique to her. Death scents are not unique to any person. And there are a lot of chemicals that would cause a cadaver dog to falsely hit. I doubt that anyone knows what was placed in the trunk of that car by all of its drivers.

Net, "low reliability" to say the least.

Yes, but wasn't it tested to be her's? So while the dog simply found the scent of "death" that sample was tested and proved to be her's, right? The fact that possibly "clumps" of her hair were also found in that spot that could not be "transferred," but had to have come from her body, most likely means that she had to be there.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I've read reports the exact car the McCann's rented was previously rented by one of the friends the McCann's were vacationing with when Madeline disappeared. Is this really true? If so what are the odds of this happening unless the resort area only had one car company with one car to rent?

I'm also wondering why the Policia decided to search the rental car?

Maybe they're smarter than we give them credit for????? I hope so because right about now I'm not feeling too good about the team.

 

[Brefie]

Right, and apparently they wanted to keep it within the group for some reason, since the McCanns rented the exact same car directly after Russell O'Brien did.

Really??

Why the heck would they want to keep the same car? Even if they did kill her and had someone dispose of her in this car, why, why, why would they want to have a car that their dead daughter was once in? This surely would be the work of people who were pretty twisted and wanted their other kids to be in a car that their sister - who their parents murdered - was transported in after the she was killed.

I am sorry, but this makes no sense to me.

If anything, I would imagine they would request a completely different car. If they killed her, they can never be confident that they would not be looked at, so why request a car that has their conviction in the trunk?? They have 2 yr old twins and could have specifically requested something bigger considering they need 2 car seats, double stroller, baby (toddler) bags and necessities, added to the fact they continually had family in town they had to transport.

Why not take the chance to distance themselves?

 

[Wudge]

Yes, but wasn't it tested to be her's? So while the dog simply found the scent of "death" that sample was tested and proved to be her's, right? The fact that possibly "clumps" of her hair were also found in that spot that could not be "transferred," but had to have come from her body, most likely means that she had to be there.

We don't know that it was tested to be 'hers". Again, an "88%" match, or thereabouts, certainly would not equate to being "hers". We just do not know.

We also do not know if the cadaver dog hit on a true death scent or hit falsely. It's all rumor and innuendo at this point.

If all we have is what the prosecutors have, that explains why the parents were allowed to leave the country. If the prosecutors have more, then I must assume they did not take all that they have to be enough.

No matter how I look at the recent happenings, I would say that either the prosecutors or LE wanted to bring media pressure to bear on the parents. Nonetheless, what happened does not make the prosecutors or LE look smart. For if you really have suspects and you end up chasing them out of the country, that's truly dull (being nice).

 

[Jeana (DP)]

We don't know that it was tested to be 'hers". Again, an "88%" match, or thereabouts, certainly would not equate to being "hers". We just do not know.

We also do not know if the cadaver dog hit on a true death scent or hit falsely. It's all rumor and innuendo at this point.

If all we have is what the prosecutors have, that explains why the parents were allowed to leave the country. If the prosecutors have more, then I must assume they did not take all that they have to be enough.

No matter how I look at the recent happenings, I would say that either the prosecutors or LE wanted to bring media pressure to bear on the parents. Nonetheless, what happened does not make the prosecutors or LE look smart. For if you really have suspects and you end up chasing them out of the country, that's truly dull (being nice).

Yes, Wudge, but I believe their laws are different than what we're used to here in the States. They are just now seeking a Judge's approval to seize evidence and to search in buildings that they were in after Maddy's disappearance. Here all of that would have been done immediately. If a judge is just now giving consent for all of this, who knows what they've got. They're supposed to be back in the country in about three days from what I understand and the judge has about 10 days to decide whether they should be arrested. I guess we'll find out more then.

 

[christine2448]

Please note that if you accept or buy into media spin, you are necessarily dealing in "cryptic" that has but one purpose. i.e. excite sensibilities in exchange for ratings.

Headlines: DNA in trunk matches Madeline's DNA.

What is not said is that it is not a perfect match. How imperfect is the match? Allegedly, there was an 88% match. That would be extremely imperfect.

Of course, the 88% is pure crimetainment input, not fact, just rumor like everything else. All that we hear is basically rumor. There are no corroborated facts.

It's smart to wait for real, corroborated facts , and let empty dresses (media morons) like Nancy Grace talk to herself.

I actually started to quote and post a link to what I bolded in your quote to rebuttle some of the evidence and as I proofread my post I thought, "dang, I am doing it too, taking the media word for gospel, this could be BS!

It's hard sometimes, but we have to remember what the medias purpose is! I forget, we all forget, and it's all we have right now...LE isn't talking us, the family isn't, but media is.

Great post!

I understand though how this can happen and I myself have fallen for it many times...learning as I go

What else do we have? Media. Sux.

 

[Wudge]

Yes, Wudge, but I believe their laws are different than what we're used to here in the States. They are just now seeking a Judge's approval to seize evidence and to search in buildings that they were in after Maddy's disappearance. Here all of that would have been done immediately. If a judge is just now giving consent for all of this, who knows what they've got. They're supposed to be back in the country in about three days from what I understand and the judge has about 10 days to decide whether they should be arrested. I guess we'll find out more then.

A half truth may not be a lie by any country's legal standards, but neither is it ever going to be more than a half truth.

It will be interesting to see what develops as time rolls by. Right now, I would say that someone in LE or the prosecutor's office has a lot of explaining to do.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

A half truth may not be a lie by any country's legal standards, but neither is it ever going to be more than a half truth.

It will be interesting to see what develops as time rolls by. Right now, I would say that someone in LE or the prosecutor's office has a lot of explaining to do.

Very true. I don't believe we can accuse them of rushing to judgment though.