Darlie's injuries

[Jeana (DP)]

Oh is that so? Well I am here to tell you that Goody and Beesy get things wrong. I have been around on various forums for many many years. Long before Goody and Beesy. Long long before. Before Dani, Before Cami, before anyone I know here but Jeana. If you want to learn about this case then you had better start taking what is presented to you as truth here with a grain of salt because it is not the truth. But, I think that all you want is for a bunch of women to get together and have a Darlie bash and then you fit right in. If my posts are flawed it is only because I have forgotten stuff. It's been a long time for me and I am not feeling the need to rush to look up stuff now. I'm actually not enough interested in this type discussion anymore. But I never could stand to see half truths or down right un truths put out there and taken by newcomers as the truth. I should get over that and just move along and ignore this forum. Don't know why I can't seem to do that.

I think the two of you need to stop talking about one another and keep on topic. Yes, I've probably been here longer than ya'll, but even I make mistakes. None of us are perfect and there's an awful lot of information to remember about this case. That's why I usually recommend the transcripts and the photos in the book rather than newspaper articles or other forums.

 

[SnootyVixen]

He also had bruises on his feet. I reckon he fought with his killer. I do not have the knowledge to explain every second of the attack. Why do those bruises point to Darlie or away from Darlie? He was a small child. She was a grown woman. She woke him up already attacking him. He fought, but didn't stand a chance. How do you think he got the bruises?

I think it's been made very clear by the medical examiner that he did not have any bruises on his heels. what that was is lividity. The blood settles to the lowest point when the heart stops pumping. But he did have some FRESH bruises. On both of his hands he had a bruise right in the fleshy part below the thumb in the palm. In both hands he also have a wound that was an area of abrasion that had little holes in it like from a grater or a meat tenderizer, or maybe just landing very hard on the carpet and skidding to make carpet burns? The latter sounds the most likely. Check the autopsy report. These bruises are documented.
The bruise on the left side of his neck was a series of dots. He was wearing a string of beads and I think the most likely source of that bruise, which was also fresh was that someone grabbed him on the right side by this necklace and jerked him to the right hard enough to make bruises on the left side of his neck.
I puzzles over these bruises for a long long time, as did Darlie. She was told of these theories of mine and I think she thinks maybe that's what happened but she has no real knowledge because she does not remember the attack on Devon.
Put your mind to them Beesy and let me know what you make of them. I'm honestly always interested in honest effort to decipher them, not just blowing them off. The other ones on the neck are also in the autopsy report. Remember these were fresh bruises. Didn't happen at play earlier in the afternoon.
Add this to the blood evidence which shows that he was probably upright when he got the first stab. Don't know if he was kneeling or standing. But he fell back and the killer went around to the back of him and stabbed him upside down the second time. I don't and can't imagine a reason for that but I hope never to be able to get into the mind of a killer that well.
If you don't mind and as you seem to be willing to have a decent conversation please do discuss this with me. Politely.

 

[SnootyVixen]

I think the two of you need to stop talking about one another and keep on topic. Yes, I've probably been here longer than ya'll, but even I make mistakes. None of us are perfect and there's an awful lot of information to remember about this case. That's why I usually recommend the transcripts and the photos in the book rather than newspaper articles or other forums.

You are quite correct Jeana and I humbly apologize and prostrate myself before you.

 

[SnootyVixen]

Yes, some of us DO read each post completely.


You kill chickens at your house? YUCK.

No I do not kill anything at my house. But I live on an estate that is fairly self sufficient in a lot of things and there are chickens raised for the table and other things i am very sure you don't want to know about. and there are employees who care for them and they kill them when the time comes. I do not kill chickens except when I must perform my voodoo rituals.

 

[SnootyVixen]

Isn't there fake blood that we could use instead, like what you use at Halloween? Or something that has the same properties as blood.

So we don't have to have this discussion at all.

In fact if we were so inclined to spend our money there is artificial blood being manufactured. Said to be able to be transfused into people. Maybe I can do the experiment by sticking my fingers to get enough blood. I bleed fairly freely. If I put a tshirt on my teddy bear and hold him and shake him and put paper on the floor and then photograph them will that be sufficient? Tell me before I subject myself to pain. Not much pain though as I have diabetes and am very used to sticking my finger for blood. Wait, even better I can use a syringe to draw a goodly amount of fresh blood from a vein. That should do the trick. Let me know if a large teddy bear will take the place of Darlie's upper body as I am facing her raising and striking with a bloody knife.
I will do it just as soon as I know you will accept the evidence.
I do feel that there is nothing better for this than fresh warm human blood.

 

[SnootyVixen]

One thing that I wanted to say to all is that I am revisiting all of the blood evidence. JonGalt said to look at the blood evidence and I would see why she is guilty and I did not see it but am going to start at the beginning and do it again very carefully. I don't want to miss something right in front of my face here.

 

[bkdianne]

I do not kill chickens except when I must perform my voodoo rituals.


-Your joking, right? :silenced:

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I do not kill chickens except when I must perform my voodoo rituals.


-Your joking, right? :silenced:

But if you're not, we want to hear more.

 

[beesy]

P.S. I have done some crime reinactment in another case, close your curtains or blinds , if your neighbors see you they will not understand

I have only one comment here

 

[beesy]

I think it's been made very clear by the medical examiner that he did not have any bruises on his heels. what that was is lividity. The blood settles to the lowest point when the heart stops pumping. But he did have some FRESH bruises. On both of his hands he had a bruise right in the fleshy part below the thumb in the palm. In both hands he also have a wound that was an area of abrasion that had little holes in it like from a grater or a meat tenderizer, or maybe just landing very hard on the carpet and skidding to make carpet burns? The latter sounds th emost likely

Lividity settles to the lowest points, yes, but that means it settles to the points the victim is laying on. Side, back, front, etc. Lividity would be on his heels, the part touching the floor. The autopsy report states that lividity is present on the posterior of the body.

Check the autopsy report. These bruises are documented.
The bruise on the left side of his neck was a series of dots. He was wearing a string of beads and I think the most likely source of that bruise, which was also fresh was that someone grabbed him on the right side by this necklace and jerked him to the right hard enough to make bruises on the left side of his neck

I just refreshed my memory of the report. I see nothing about any bruises on his throat, neck, whatever that area would be called. I see what she calls a faint linear "puntate petechial hemrrage" on the left side. I see nothing about bruises on his feet.

Put your mind to them Beesy and let me know what you make of them. I'm honestly always interested in honest effort to decipher them, not just blowing them off. The other ones on the neck are also in the autopsy report. Remember these were fresh bruises. Didn't happen at play earlier in the afternoon.

I see 2 old bruises, but boys will be boys, I'm sure they mean nothing. If I went to the morgue tonight, they would think I was beaten on a regular basis. I bruise easily and my medicine throws off my peripheal vision. I bump into things, and then later see these enormous bruises and wonder what????
I don't know anymore than to say I think the bruises on his palms came from fighting with his killer. I am not blowing it off. Hitting at her? A small boy would slap, not punch. The stab on his arm and the carpet burn seem to suggest he flailed his arms around. The bruises are very small, one is only 1/16th of an inch

Add this to the blood evidence which shows that he was probably upright when he got the first stab. Don't know if he was kneeling or standing. But he fell back and the killer went around to the back of him and stabbed him upside down the second time. I don't and can't imagine a reason for that but I hope never to be able to get into the mind of a killer that well.

I'm just not getting that he was upright for the first stab. I don't get that he was stabbed upside down. I'm just not seeing it. The report states the wounds are front to back, one is left to right, with no up or down deviation. Wound 2 is front to back, right to left with no up or down deviation. So what I'm saying is I cannot form an opinion on them. Don't forget the stab wound on his butt. It is back to front, right to left and downward. It's possible he did all three, kick his legs up and smack at his killer with his hands, flay his arms around. I do not believe he just died in his sleep. His eyes were open. I know many confessed killers are often surprised by how messy things get. Either the victim struggles more than they thought they would, or the amount of blood is unexpected, maybe both. I think Darlie believed that since the boys were asleep, they would just die. Then Devon wrestles or struggles with her, he at least wakes up, it's already not going as planned. Then of all things, Damon actually crawls away from her, even tries to pull himself up on the sofa. She can't believe it! Then still later, Damon starts moving again. He's looking around for help! John List said that when he shot his wife, Helen, he was surprised at the gore. He expected to be able to clean everything up so the children wouldn't see it as they came in. He couldn't get it all and so just stopped. Then he couldn't move his mother downstairs as planned. Then the children came home earlier than usual. The middle boy actually ran away from his father. So List managed to succeed, but it wasn't as easy and nice and neat as he thought it'd be.
The blood evidence: are you talking about Darlie's blood on his pillow? Did you see the thread I started about blood patterns? Her blood that's on his pillow is drops, or is it spray? I think it's drops. If so, then I think she returned to him at some point maybe holding the knife and her blood dripping off of it. Maybe she still had the knife in case he was still alive.

If you don't mind and as you seem to be willing to have a decent conversation please do discuss this with me. Politely.

I have been very polite to you, it's Jane who's going to send me to the padded cell:banghead:

 

[justice2]

In fact if we were so inclined to spend our money there is artificial blood being manufactured. Said to be able to be transfused into people. Maybe I can do the experiment by sticking my fingers to get enough blood. I bleed fairly freely. If I put a tshirt on my teddy bear and hold him and shake him and put paper on the floor and then photograph them will that be sufficient? Tell me before I subject myself to pain. Not much pain though as I have diabetes and am very used to sticking my finger for blood. Wait, even better I can use a syringe to draw a goodly amount of fresh blood from a vein. That should do the trick. Let me know if a large teddy bear will take the place of Darlie's upper body as I am facing her raising and striking with a bloody knife.
I will do it just as soon as I know you will accept the evidence.
I do feel that there is nothing better for this than fresh warm human blood.

Are you asking me? I'm not trying any reenactment right now. It's your body, you can such as much blood out of it as you want to.

 

[beesy]

Are you serious? If so, you need to get some help. :twocents: If not, then please let us know it was a joke.

I hope she's kidding. You know what voodoo dolls can do.

 

[deanws]

I hope she's kidding. You know what voodoo dolls can do. [url="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_4_127.gif"]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_4_127.gif[/url]

She said the chickens are raised for the table and other things she is sure we don't want to know about???????? I think she is serious.

 

[deanws]

Cows blood would be what the police used and if there is a meat processing plant near you you might be able to purchase some. Don't go killing chickens, not much blood in them anyway. You should also cover the floor with butcher paper with the waxed side down. This would allow you to simulate blood drops and it would photograph better than any other color surface. Less clean up after your "crime reinactment" Zip lock baggies taped to your arms - do not pierce with knife use a toothpick, You are trying to simulate bleeding and gravity will empty the bags quicker than bleeding does if your hole in the baggie is too big. Hold the knife, let it run down your arm unto the blade and drip a bit. Now lay it down on the paper. Move away throw it on the paper. Move away and drop it on the paper, Which one looks the most like the photo in the book of the knife print.
You have described how to reinact the shirt so I thought while you are simulated bleeding, the knife wouldn't be a bad experiment to try.

P.S. I have done some crime reinactment in another case, close your curtains or blinds , if your neighbors see you they will not understand.

No thank you. Like I said...I will read and stick with the evidence provided by the experts.

 

[Goody]

Goody you have to know I can not show you anything as you can not see me. But a knife in the right position above her could be the source of the cast off without specifying who holds the knife.

This just plain is not true. Unless you can reproduce the test and say you know for a fact that it can be done, it just sounds like more spin. A person standing over Darlie with a bloody knife is not going to reproduce the same spots...size and shape and direction....as a knife she was holding herself with the rise and fall of the stabbing motions. Remember a big part of it lies in the movement of the knife, not just its position.

And again, I am speaking of possibilities here and not absolutes. I just think it seem to me that you all have taken the work of Bevel as absolute without thinking if there could possibly be another means of getting that cast off onto the shirt.

You are totally wrong. When I was looking for something to prove Darlie did not do it (Mary and Cami and Jeana will remember those days), I completely tossed out Bevel's tests and his conclusions. It was not until I saw Dr Lee talking about the same methods and theories in another case that I saw the error of my ways and looked elsewhere for supporting information. In the end, I learned that judging blood evidence is very different from most other things and experts rely heavily on re-enactments. If re-enactments end with blood on the shirt in the wrong locations, wrong sizes, wrong shapes, etc, then you can't arrive at an accurate conclusion. If you can recreate the situation, then maybe you have something.

If Bevel's theories were so off the mark as you seem to think, Dr Lee and other renown world experts would not be using the very same methods and tests. At some point you do have to accept what those most experienced have to say.

 

[Goody]

I will be so very happy to do so. I thought I did already but think I got so involved in talking about something I forgot. Here's what you do. Have a butcher knife freshley wet with blood. Stand facing the person who is in the role of Darlie. She must be shorter than you are. Hold the knife in an overhand stabbing position. Raise the knife above your shoulders all the while holding onto the Darlie model by the shirt front as she struggles mightedly to get away. So raise the knife and then bring the knive down in a stabbing motion so that you are going to stab in the area of her heart but she twists and turns and you end up stabbing at the right shoulder but you instead get the knife caught up in the stretched out shirt in your hands. You don't end up stabbing her but you will get cast off on the back and the front of her shirt and yourself. Try it. Go kill a chicken and use the fresh warm blood for the test and you will see. I promise you.

Then how do explain why there was no blood on the slits in her shirt (done as it was stretched out, as you say)?

What you describe though is exactly what Darlie thought she was recreating when she put those slits in her shirt. Big mistake on her part. It doesn't fit in with the rest of her story.

 

[Goody]

Exactly! Good post.:clap: Not just for this case, but for all the cases that pervs hurt children:behindbar . I feel hurting any child should be a sentence that is life.

Mandatories don't work. There is always someone who gets chewed up in them unfairly. Like it or not, the best way to deal with crime is to give the courts discretion. That way they can judge each case individually.

 

[Goody]

Maybe the knife was bloody from stabbing the boys, Are there holes in Darlie shirt too?
Beesy, goody, confirm ??????
Hmmmm..... I may post something about this later. Since they still have the knife and the shirt in evidence ??????????
Seems to me.....

There are some small cuts on her shirt as if it was pulled away from her body at the time it was cut, but there is no blood on the cuts so it was not cut with a bloody knife. If I remember correctly,t he state said she did it to test the waters, to build up enough courage to cut herself. But I think she was trying to create evidence that she was attacked. In her view, the shirt would be pulled out that way by the would-be attacker and knife could cut the shirt without cutting her. Bad move though because the knife was clean when she did it. Maybe in her mind she would have been attacked first and that is why she used a clean knife or maybe she just missed the detail. Whatever, it definitely does not show that she was attacked by anyone. In fact, imo, it shows just the opposite.

 

[Goody]

Because I am putting forth an intruder theory in which the knife has just been used to kill the boys and now is being used on Darlie. In an attemp to show that there are other ways that the cast off could end up on her shirt in the places that it did. It is my suspicion that it also ended up on her shirt in areas not tested.

Well, of course it did, but they didn't try to prove how every single drop got on her shirt. They merely singled out what appeared to be cast off and showed us exactly how the size and shape could be deposited in the location found...right down to the little tails showing from what direction they came.

It would be different if they were trying to tell us that droplets of minute size with oblong shapes and tails pointed in one direction are the same as big round droplets with no tails. That would be a bogus theory.

Come to think of it, isn't that precisely what you are doing? You are disregarding the size, shape, and location of droplets on her shirt and trying to convince us that any and all blood on the shirt is the same. You will never convince anyone that what you say is possible much less probable like that.

 

[deanws]

Mandatories don't work. There is always someone who gets chewed up in them unfairly. Like it or not, the best way to deal with crime is to give the courts discretion. That way they can judge each case individually.

I can't stand when people hurt kids. It breaks my heart.