***Day 1-Committal Hearing*** 11th,12,13th March 2013

[DrWatson]

John Taylor‏@_JohnTaylor_

Baden-Clay forensic pathologist says insufficient evidence to determine Allison Baden-Clay's cause of death. @abcnews

See what I mean?

 

[Makara]

Davis is telling a medical forensic officer that his explanation about the fingernail scratches is "purely speculation." Yeah right! :twocents:

ETA: Mods, this may seem like a long post but I haven't broken any copyright rules. If you look at the link I've only copied the latest update of a huge page on information. Cheers.

3:29pm AEST: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...594302360?sv=4ac863cbd3ace59e365dac5d72df8356

Dr Leslie Griffiths, a medical forensic officer employed by Queensland Health, examined accused wife killer Gerard Baden-Clay on April 22, 2012 and again on June 14, 2012 and told the court he believed the two scratches on Baden-Clay's face were caused by finger nails.

"I'm saying that I believe it's caused by a finger nail and I have reasons to believe that," he said.

"A finger nail would be at right angles to the skin.

"That (the injuries) could be explained by a convex nail being drawn down the face ... producing an elongated wound."

Defence barrister Peter Davis said the two scratch marks weren't entirely parallel - one started higher and slightly curved away.

"You've got two quite significant scratches which would indicate quite significant force," he said.

Dr Griffiths said that could be explained.

"It could be simply explained by the fingers moving during that exercise," he said.

But Mr Davis said the doctor's explanations were "purely speculation".

"All you can say is it is consistent with finger nails provided you make various assumptions," he said.

The court was also shown lighter scratches on Baden-Clay's neck, on the opposite side to the marks on his jaw.

Dr Griffiths said he believed the marks on the neck were also caused by fingernails.

He said neither the scratches in the face or the neck would have bled.

Another photograph showed scratches and bruising on Baden-Clay's upper chest on the left hand side.

"I think that's a bruise," the doctor said.

"There appears to be a pattern to that bruise - I believe that's a superficial bruise."

The same photograph shows a separate small yellowish bruise on the right hand side of Baden-Clay's chest.

Dr Griffiths said the yellow colour showed the bruise was at least 18 hours old.

 

[Curiousasacat]

Recap video MSM article


http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...charged-with-wifes-murder-20130311-2fv4j.html

 

[Fuskier]

Now IMO this is Mr Davis honing in to create doubt about the fingernail evidence -because it is damning evidence and he needs to create reasonable doubt that an alternative cause for Allison's death was possible i.e. suicide.

 

[Strangeworld]

John Taylor‏@_JohnTaylor_

Baden-Clay forensic pathologist says insufficient evidence to determine Allison Baden-Clay's cause of death. @abcnews

Oh no. My first thought to this is that Allison's loved ones may never know what happened in her final moments, regardless of whether this goes to trial, and if someone is found guilty or not. Breaks my heart.

 

[DrWatson]

Davis is telling a medical forensic officer that his explanation about the fingernail scratches is "purely speculation."

That's when you know the defence is getting desperate....

And watch for when Davis tries to imply to Nathan Milne that the cause of death COULD be a number of things including Zoloft overdose: "Can you specifically rule that out?" type of questions, to put a particular slant on it.

Fortunately, this is all in front of an experienced magistrate who will see right through those tactics - Davis is not trying to convince a jury here by sowing seeds of doubt.

 

[marlywings]

I'm still of the opinion the marks on GBC's neck in this photo are scratches. KG1 I think originally posted the photo...

 

[Mountain Misst]

Davis is telling a medical forensic officer that his explanation about the fingernail scratches is "purely speculation." Yeah right! :twocents:

ETA: Mods, this may seem like a long post but I haven't broken any copyright rules. If you look at the link I've only copied the latest update of a huge page on information. Cheers.

3:29pm AEST: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...594302360?sv=4ac863cbd3ace59e365dac5d72df8356

Dr Leslie Griffiths, a medical forensic officer employed by Queensland Health, examined accused wife killer Gerard Baden-Clay on April 22, 2012 and again on June 14, 2012 and told the court he believed the two scratches on Baden-Clay's face were caused by finger nails.

"I'm saying that I believe it's caused by a finger nail and I have reasons to believe that," he said.

"A finger nail would be at right angles to the skin.

"That (the injuries) could be explained by a convex nail being drawn down the face ... producing an elongated wound."

Defence barrister Peter Davis said the two scratch marks weren't entirely parallel - one started higher and slightly curved away.

"You've got two quite significant scratches which would indicate quite significant force," he said.

Dr Griffiths said that could be explained.

"It could be simply explained by the fingers moving during that exercise," he said.

But Mr Davis said the doctor's explanations were "purely speculation".

"All you can say is it is consistent with finger nails provided you make various assumptions," he said.

The court was also shown lighter scratches on Baden-Clay's neck, on the opposite side to the marks on his jaw.

Dr Griffiths said he believed the marks on the neck were also caused by fingernails.

He said neither the scratches in the face or the neck would have bled.

Another photograph showed scratches and bruising on Baden-Clay's upper chest on the left hand side.

"I think that's a bruise," the doctor said.

"There appears to be a pattern to that bruise - I believe that's a superficial bruise."

The same photograph shows a separate small yellowish bruise on the right hand side of Baden-Clay's chest.

Dr Griffiths said the yellow colour showed the bruise was at least 18 hours old.

:what: cheeky Davis!

 

[Strangeworld]

And interesting point that the scratches would apparently have not bled.

 

[mrs plod]

I suggested the "phone in the pocket" idea a few days ago - and was promptly corrected (and rightly so) as Allison's clothes had no pockets.

Not sure if anyone has thought of this, but alot of women tend to put their phone in their bra if they dont have any pockets......

 

[possumheart]

Not sure if anyone has thought of this, but alot of women tend to put their phone in their bra if they dont have any pockets......

I believe Allison was wearing a purple singlet with a built-in bra from memory

 

[DrWatson]

THERE was "insufficient positive evidence" to show how Allison Baden-Clay had died, according to the doctor who performed the autopsy.

Dr Nathan Milne, a forensic pathologist, told the court he could not determine a cause of death.

Dr Milne examined Allison's body where it lay in the mud on the banks of the Kholo Creek on April 30, 2012, and again while carrying out the autopsy.

"There was insufficient positive evidence to determine a cause of death," he said.

He told the court Allison's hyoid bone was still intact - likely suggesting she wasn't "manually strangled".

However, he said someone killed through "ligature strangulation" could still have their hyoid bone intact.

So could someone who had been smothered by eg a pillow or simply a big hand! And that big hand could end up with "cuts" on it....

 

[Makara]

Now IMO this is Mr Davis honing in to create doubt about the fingernail evidence -because it is damning evidence and he needs to create reasonable doubt.

That's it exactly Fuskier and it is so bloody annoying! :banghead:

 

[Thinking]

After seeing his behaviour today and OW there rallying him on through the screen (before she promptly disappeared), my feeling is that, no matter what comes out at this committal, GBC will NOT enter a plea of guilty under any circumstance.

I would be so happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Bayside]

Ah whoops....I sometimes carry things in my bra...just a thought

I always pop my phone in my bra if I am in a hurry.

 

[Nads]

I believe Allison was wearing a purple singlet with a built-in bra from memory

That is what I wear to bed. Just saying, it could be her PJs rather than exercise wear like everyone assumes.

 

[Red71]

Sorry - already posted above!

 

[Fuskier]

http://couriermail.com.au/news/queen...-1226594302360
Originally posted by DrWatson:
Dr Nathan Milne, a forensic pathologist, told the court "There was insufficient positive evidence to determine a cause of death," he said.
He told the court Allison's hyoid bone was still intact - likely suggesting she wasn't "manually strangled".
However, he said someone killed through "ligature strangulation" could still have their hyoid bone intact.

IMO Dr Milne has carefully left the door open for futher analysis.
As DrWatson suggested:"...So could someone who had been smothered by eg a pillow or simply a big hand!".
Army training could teach other quick kill methods.

 

[Makara]

I always pop my phone in my bra if I am in a hurry.

BUT...Allison did not go for a walk that night and had no need to stuff her phone down her bra. Do some women carry their phones in their bra while they're at home and doing stuff around the house? I don't.

MOO.

 

[Jo04]

Now IMO this is Mr Davis honing in to create doubt about the fingernail evidence -because it is damning evidence and he needs to create reasonable doubt that an alternative cause for Allison's death was possible i.e. suicide.

Did I see a photo somewhere of a selfy that GBC took of himself prior to Allison's disappearence?

They may need to get a catapillar expert in to dispute the fingernail theory