DC DC - Relisha Tenau Rudd, 8, SE DC, 26 Feb 2014 - #8

[Adopt Don't Shop]

I remember reading that the police found children's clothing at KT's home (?) when they did a search there. Was it ever established if the clothing belonged to Relisha? Was it new or used clothing? How much clothing was it?

I remember that also, I don't recall reading anymore about testing on clothing, but good question. Also the bottoms to Relisha's 2 piece bathing suit the one Relisha' wore the night of Feb26, are " supposed to be in a bag at MYT's house that FBI' never picked up, per MYT. Top was given to FBI' and later bottoms were found by MYT. Odd if in bag when dropped off how could they have been separated, assuming in winter they were still wet from night before.

 

[charminglane]

Exactly, Adopt!
Why wasn't MY on the horn to the popo to get someone over here - ASAP - to pick up those bathing suit bottoms?

 

[branwynbreeze]

Since Tatum was a felon, who's gun did he use and was it the same one used on his wife?

One constant theme is none of RR family blame KT. No he took my baby, no the dingo ate my baby. So they point fingers saying so and so did this and that (with few details regarding KT interaction with family), but no one speculates where and what happened to RR or have I missed it with all the smoke screens.

I don't get it. I asked my nephew who lived in MD about case and he quickly said momma sold her/paid off drug debt. I'm not convinced, but nothing makes sense.

 

[charminglane]

Branwyn, I, too think she was used as pay off for some kind of debt.
Not sure how KT and his wife fit in. I think they were killed by someone else. KT thought too highly of himself to commit suicide. He would have gone far away.

I had the exact thought of "dingo took my baby" the other day. There is just no urgency.

Someone please tell me George tucked his junk away by now. Please.

 

[popsicle]

I am not giving KT a pass on bad behavior. He certainly seems to have been up to no good at all. I'm merely speculating to if he was , indeed, the last one with Relisha .

__

I gave Kt' the benefit of the doubt, because it wouldn't be equal not giving it too him.. So many things about him don't make things clear enough for me to think his innocence should be given.

Article dated March 21, Tatum's neighbor placing Relisha' at KT & AT's home, Nicole Wilson' seen Relisha March 15/ : Nicole Wilson's Freshest memory 6 days old
"She didn't look to be in any danger, so I just came on in the house and left," said Tatum neighbor Nicole Wilson, who lives beneath Tatum's apartment and told FBI agents she saw Relisha for the first time Saturday.
"Saturday they were leaving the building," Wilson said. "I didn't think nothing of it."
-- SOURCE: - http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?sec...rld&id=9474794
__
LE ' had found no signs of or trafficking, but there was time to get rid of evidence if the meeting at the RRI' was 10pm? and many days before the AA' went out to destroy laptop/ Ipads/drop cell phones in trash, he's been around the block he knows how to cover his A** and protect others. All those phones 6 phones 2 two way walkie/talkies what were they used for?

Knowing Kt' was suppose to be at shelter to meet CPS' as the good Dr. Tatum' on the 19th and one of the calls placed to MYT' from KT'.. odd at 9am, why that call would be made and then he jets out and heads for Richmond Virgina, a good guy would have stayed and answered questions or deny accusations and never invited CPS?
_
Pool party/hotel/grown man/ 8 yr old female .. did the other 3 boys not want to go to this, could he have not invited SY' with them?

Why did none of the Young's know his full name, why weren't they friends with him on face book, because the wife would see?

Why did he lease two residences in the same 6 months spam, why did he file papers (Legal separation) after 24 yrs. of marriage, 4 days after eviction was set on second leased apt. (3500 Hayes)?
_
Where is the granddaughter, only reported by ATJ' as having 1 maybe 2 grandsons?
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Edited ) I've spent hrs reading and could not find on any SM' sites not one single person speaking on behalf of AT' like (I work with her for many yrs, she was great). I don't know if KT's home was just his single income coming in or if he one the multi law suit filed in 2012' , but where did all his money come from?
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Why is he picture April 13, 2013 in a photo with a named Sex Offender (public record) and the named sex offender that was listed and than dismissed by LE. (Thinking to myself LE' would track all movements of S0' that could lead to where Relisha' is)

He's shady to me, so shady. I give him no more time or the Young's police need to go back and question residents at KT's last known address.
Edited from above quote was mine, placed in wrongly, wow I could do this all day, I wondered where that went to... " Sorry !!

I just want to add...his grooming behavior of other girls at the shelter.

 

[kimi_SFC]

Exactly, Adopt!
Why wasn't MY on the horn to the popo to get someone over here - ASAP - to pick up those bathing suit bottoms?

This was addresses by MTY on radio show.

I'm not sure if the post relating to it is in the Radio Discussion Only thread.

Even so, it defies logic and should be take with a HUGE boulder of salt.

Sorry to be so cryptic. I can't post much more without violating the new rules.

ETA: scroll back to Post #164 of this thread. I posted about it in real time - it hasn't been moved over to the RDO thread yet


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[charminglane]

This was addresses by MTY on radio show.

I'm not sure if the post relating to it is in the Radio Discussion Only thread.

Even so, it defies logic and should be take with a HUGE boulder of salt.

Sorry to be so cryptic. I can't post much more without violating the new rules.

ETA: scroll back to Post #164 of this thread. I posted about it in real time - it hasn't been moved over to the RDO thread yet


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Yes, Kimi. What I meant was, after one call, if it seemed important, shouldn't the family keep calling until someone came out to pick them up? Or shouldn't they have dropped the bathing suit bottoms off at the station?

I guess you are right - that is assuming MY EVER called in the first place!

 

[2Hope4]

All the arguing, point fingers, skirting from blame....who is looking for Relisha? Why haven't they called in a SAR group to help out? Get volunteer searchers on board with a known SAR group!!

 

[EmiLove832]

Has anyone been able to come up with scenarios that fit all pieces of the puzzle?

The only scenario I can come up with is that all parties knew that RR was going with KT to be sold or for his own pleasure. I suppose it could be as simple as that but I don't understand why the family would make statements that would make KT look like the good guy.

If KT, was the good guy, why did he kill AT?

I can't think of any way that SY, AY and MYT didn't know that RR was with KT. But I'm not convinced she was with KT last either. I do wonder if he killed AT and himself out knowing everything he was going to be exposed.

This is an extremely frustrating case. It's difficult to figure out what is true. I think the majority of what we've heard is bs.

It also bothers me that we've never heard confirmation from LE regarding the shovel and lime.

Finally, it bothers me that we've never seen or heard confirmation that Relisha left the hotel in the footage we've seen.

So many loose ends...!


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[SCHMAE]

Has anyone been able to come up with scenarios that fit all pieces of the puzzle?

The only scenario I can come up with is that all parties knew that RR was going with KT to be sold or for his own pleasure. I suppose it could be as simple as that but I don't understand why the family would make statements that would make KT look like the good guy.

If KT, was the good guy, why did he kill AT?

I can't think of any way that SY, AY and MYT didn't know that RR was with KT. But I'm not convinced she was with KT last either. I do wonder if he killed AT and himself out knowing everything he was going to be exposed.

This is an extremely frustrating case. It's difficult to figure out what is true. I think the majority of what we've heard is bs.

It also bothers me that we've never heard confirmation from LE regarding the shovel and lime.

Finally, it bothers me that we've never seen or heard confirmation that Relisha left the hotel in the footage we've seen.

So many loose ends...!


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If they knew he was a ' bad guy' and let him take Relisha anyway, then what does that look like? I think good or bad , they need to paint him in a good light to 'minimize' their own guilt or involvement. I cannot figure out the family' motivation prior to Relisha disappearing but I think it's clear that since she disappeared their motivation is 'cover your a$$" .

 

[baltolady]

These are just a few ideas that have been rolling around in my addled brain. They don't have a cohesive connection, so they probably aren't correct; but, here they are:

What if KT was taking Relisha to give her some sense of normalcy, as in a nicer life other than living in the shelter and being tossed around between relatives. During this time, he is having some sort of trouble with AT (money, drugs, ???); they are evicted from their apartment, he is searching for a gun, he files for divorce, he buys lime. During this time he starts taking Relisha to hotels to prevent her from having to stay with AT while he works. (Have we heard there were hotel/motel stays with Relisha previously?) Everything ends the night at the Red Roof Inn with AT's murder.

What if something happened to Relisha while in the care of someone in her family, (accident, intentional, abduction by another individual). Possibly he was not aware initially; but, was told at some point (going along as the Dr.), also possibly disposed of Relisha for them and starting ducking the Social Worker/school.

He murders AT (planned) and LE is looking for him. Relisha is gone; he is devastated over the loss of her (and possible involvement as an accessory after the fact) and now he has taken AT's life.

He doesn't want to go back to prison and has nothing left to live for (Relisha is gone and he is guilty of AT's murder); so, he commits suicide.

What if these really are two unrelated paths that seem (with what we know) to be only tenuously connected?

I am not leaning toward this theory. Just throwing out more possibilities, since that is all we have to work with at this time.

So many liars. So many conflicting stories and timelines. My hat is off to the LE personnel who are searching for the truth and hopefully, will find Relisha. Although, as the days go by, any hope I originally had fades.

Anyone else have alternate theories? Whatcha think? :websleuther:

We are searching for you, Relisha! Where are you, sweet girl?

 

[popsicle]

I can buy what you are selling, Baltolady.

I have teetered between the family possibly killing Relisha acidentally and KT grooming her and when he moved on her physically, she died. He could have cared for Relisha and when the fam told him she was dead.... he wanted to bury her and not have them just dispose of her. Once everything started coming to light on the 19th, perhaps he knew he would rather kill himself than to go back to prison. After all, he was involved with this even if after the fact.

Still having feelings for AT, he arranged to get her to the RRI because he wanted to take them both out together. After killing her, he wasn't able to kill himself though or he still had some loose ends to take care of. He then ends up at the park, where he had buried Relisha and he kills himself.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Just K]

If he was going to kill himself, why would he even care to "tie up loose ends?"

Why did he pay for another month at the storage facility?

Was he trying to protect another loved one before he killed himself?

I'm thinking he didn't kill himself or his wife.

 

[modesty blaise]

All the arguing, point fingers, skirting from blame....who is looking for Relisha? Why haven't they called in a SAR group to help out? Get volunteer searchers on board with a known SAR group!!

i waver between KT and a member of the family(meaning SY or AW) being responsble,to be honest right now i'm looking squarely at the parent(s).

 

[baltolady]

I can buy what you are selling, Baltolady.

I have teetered between the family possibly killing Relisha acidentally and KT grooming her and when he moved on her physically, she died. He could have cared for Relisha and when the fam told him she was dead.... he wanted to bury her and not have them just dispose of her. Once everything started coming to light on the 19th, perhaps he knew he would rather kill himself than to go back to prison. After all, he was involved with this even if after the fact.

Still having feelings for AT, he arranged to get her to the RRI because he wanted to take them both out together. After killing her, he wasn't able to kill himself though or he still had some loose ends to take care of. He then ends up at the park, where he had buried Relisha and he kills himself.

Just some thoughts.

You are right. He could have chickened out or had a plan to take care of himself later. I believe the park was a significant place for him because of Relisha as well.

Tatum cleaning up a mess the family made would make sense that not one of them have harsh words for him or question Relisha's whereabouts. They know what/something happened to Relisha and ALL of them know Tatum took care of their 'problem'. Their hero of sorts. At least for that time, he saved them all. Dammit, I hate typing this theory; but, it seems to work with the evidence we have for now.

I still am leaning more toward the 'predator/child ' theory and believe LE is looking at/for bigger fish before they round the whole sordid bunch up and throw them in jail. At least I hope so. The KISS theory just doesn't apply to this case in any way so far, because there is nothing simple about the facts we know. Imagine the amount of information of which we are not aware. Boggles the mind.

 

[EmiLove832]

I am seriously struggling with making a decision on what I think happened and who did what.

The first and biggest issue I have is with SY, MYT and AY - We all know they are liars. So what reason would they have to start pointing the finger at each other instead of KT? KT had already killed AT which makes him look way more suspicious. If any of RR's family did something to her, the sheer luck that KT killed his wife right around the time the AA went out would be the best time to point the finger at KT. But they never did!

To me, that is very telling. I really wonder about SY/AW. I do feel that all of the family knew something was going on with RR and KT. I feel that there has been abuse from generation to generation so it's "not a big deal" to them. It happened to me, so it's not a big deal if it happens to you kind of thing.

Back to them pointing the finger at each other? To me, there has to be a thread of truth somewhere in all of the lies. So who is telling the truth?

Did Uncle Danny really walk SY and RR to the bus to meet KT on 3/7? Let say he is being truthful, maybe SY made a request of KT that he couldn't meet. Maybe she wanted money for drugs to hand over RR but he didn't have enough? SY gets angry, refuses to let RR go with KT, RR gets upset because she doesn't want to go back to the shelter, SY is mad because she doesn't get the money for drugs and snaps. SY hurts/kills Relisha.

There are to many possibilities to type them all out but when I get to thinking about everything we've heard, I can't help but go back to SY or AW.

I'm dying to hear from LE, there has to be cameras all over DC. I would imagine they would easily be able to corroborate Uncle Danny's story and know if SY handed RR off to KT. Hmm.. I just realized the last date they can prove RR was alive is 3/1. So apparently this but stop thing never happened or LE doesn't know about it or they haven't found footage to confirm or deny.

Oh goodness, I'm giving myself a headache. I can't figure this out but I can't let it go. I sure hope we hear something soon.


ETA: I forgot something I wanted to mention. Does it bother anyone else that there has been no confirmation regarding the lime and shovel? That information came from a reporter (I believe). The lime and shovel make a HUGE difference in putting together a theory.

 

[Cinnamon]

If he was going to kill himself, why would he even care to "tie up loose ends?"

Why did he pay for another month at the storage facility?

Was he trying to protect another loved one before he killed himself?

I'm thinking he didn't kill himself or his wife.

BBM. I'm starting to think so, too.

IDK. I'm on the fence. On the one side, I think KT was a pedophile who groomed Relisha (and her family) for a along time...so it was "normal" for her to be with him for days on end, to do as he pleased (MOO). Perhaps he didn't think anybody would notice her missing, but when she stopped going to school, SOMEONE did notice! And once CPS and LE got involved and the , he knew it was over for him, and he killed himself. This is my original opinion, and for the most part, the one I still believe, most days. But then...

On the other side of the fence, I think this may be something bigger with many other people involved. If I go by that theory, then I do not think KT killed himself or his wife. I just can't get over that group of folks in the hotel room...IIRC, that took place within hours of the missing-person investigation being launched. Something about that "meeting" is highly suspicious, especially since AT was killed there sometime that night/early morning. Do we know who all of the people were? Last I heard, all, but one, was identified. Was it coincidence that this meeting occurred right after the missing-person investigation was launched? Or was the meeting planned IN RESPONSE to the missing-person investigation? IMO, that hotel room meeting is a key factor in this case. All opinions, MOO.

 

[Cinnamon]

I am seriously struggling with making a decision on what I think happened and who did what.

The first and biggest issue I have is with SY, MYT and AY - We all know they are liars. So what reason would they have to start pointing the finger at each other instead of KT? KT had already killed AT which makes him look way more suspicious. If any of RR's family did something to her, the sheer luck that KT killed his wife right around the time the AA went out would be the best time to point the finger at KT. But they never did!

To me, that is very telling. I really wonder about SY/AW. I do feel that all of the family knew something was going on with RR and KT. I feel that there has been abuse from generation to generation so it's "not a big deal" to them. It happened to me, so it's not a big deal if it happens to you kind of thing.

Back to them pointing the finger at each other? To me, there has to be a thread of truth somewhere in all of the lies. So who is telling the truth?

Did Uncle Danny really walk SY and RR to the bus to meet KT on 3/7? Let say he is being truthful, maybe SY made a request of KT that he couldn't meet. Maybe she wanted money for drugs to hand over RR but he didn't have enough? SY gets angry, refuses to let RR go with KT, RR gets upset because she doesn't want to go back to the shelter, SY is mad because she doesn't get the money for drugs and snaps. SY hurts/kills Relisha.

There are to many possibilities to type them all out but when I get to thinking about everything we've heard, I can't help but go back to SY or AW.

I'm dying to hear from LE, there has to be cameras all over DC. I would imagine they would easily be able to corroborate Uncle Danny's story and know if SY handed RR off to KT. Hmm.. I just realized the last date they can prove RR was alive is 3/1. So apparently this but stop thing never happened or LE doesn't know about it or they haven't found footage to confirm or deny.

Oh goodness, I'm giving myself a headache. I can't figure this out but I can't let it go. I sure hope we hear something soon.


ETA: I forgot something I wanted to mention. Does it bother anyone else that there has been no confirmation regarding the lime and shovel? That information came from a reporter (I believe). The lime and shovel make a HUGE difference in putting together a theory.

BBM. Yes, it bothers me big time!!! I posted a question about the lime and shovel a while back (can't remember who answered me...sorry, at work, no time to look up that post now). IIRC, it did come from a reporter and it was double sourced. But, as far as I know, LE has NOT confirmed the lime and shovel (if I'm wrong, somebody please correct!). ITA it does make a huge different in formulating a theory.

 

[popsicle]

BBM. Yes, it bothers me big time!!! I posted a question about the lime and shovel a while back (can't remember who answered me...sorry, at work, no time to look up that post now). IIRC, it did come from a reporter and it was double sourced. But, as far as I know, LE has NOT confirmed the lime and shovel (if I'm wrong, somebody please correct!). ITA it does make a huge different in formulating a theory.

I was the one who posted that. Yes it was a reporter, actually 2 different reporters tweeted about it but only 1 of them said it was confirmed by 2 different sources.

I have to think it is correct. The extensive searching done at the park...I don't know that LE would have spent all that time searching there if KT only bought the contractor bags. jmo

 

[PLT]

I was the one who posted that. Yes it was a reporter, actually 2 different reporters tweeted about it but only 1 of them said it was confirmed by 2 different sources.

I have to think it is correct. The extensive searching done at the park...I don't know that LE would have spent all that time searching there if KT only bought the contractor bags. jmo

I questioned the validity of the lime/shovel as well. I never heard LE or other later articles mention those items but yes, in the very beginning those items were reported. I wish those that included the items in their reporting would confirm where they got that info. Trash bags could have been used to clean out storage or hide items but the shovel/lime would indicate foul play. If these items were on KTs credit card - i would consider it reliable however if it was word of mouth - not so much.