DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #16

[katydid23]

I get it. My 10-year-old son looks like PS and seems to have a similar spirit from what I've read. And that might be why I feel uncharacteristically dispassionate about speculating about anyone who lied in the case of his murder. Admittedly, cold as ice!


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I don't see JW as a 'cold as ice' person. I could be totally wrong. I might be biased. But his lies were not saying ' he never dropped off money' or something substantive that would obstruct the investigation. Nor were they long standing. He lied about some of the details and I don't believe it was because he is as cold as ice. I think it was the opposite. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

We will learn quite a bit I think the preliminary hearing. Isn't it coming up soon?

iirc, Thursday, 2 PM

 

[blessedlife]

I guess it depends on what "usually" means. Yes, there are people who are just trouble; it starts in kindergarden and doesn't ever stop until they end up in prison. Statistically, they are probably the largest group who are incarcerated because they are impulsive and often not very bright, and just plain don't seem to care a whole lot about outward appearances or following the rules. But there are plenty of people, numerous examples, in which people who have always seemed perfectly normal and have never been caught doing anything wrong just seem to up and murder someone. Take for example, Scott Peterson. It turns out he was a total wackadoodle, but his parents-in-law completely stood by him until evidence started to surface. Take this prison guard in NY who helped two convicted murderers escape with powertools and, oh, by the way, asked them to kill her husband when they were free, because one of them made her feel special. I don't recall reading anything about any sort of indication that she was murderous. And what about the man who killed Nancy Pfister? He had been a respected physician, no violent record, yes, he had some financial problems, but so do a lot of people. Plus everyone thought he was too physically impaired to kill anybody. I mean, so many people who kill have no criminal record. And aren't there more murders between people who know each other than there are random ones? That is the thing that is so frightening to me.

Absolutely! Look at Israel Keyes. I would have hired this guy to do work for me. Who would have thunk it?


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[FelicityLemon]

But it is not beyond the realm of possibilities. I find the defensiveness about discussing JW hard to understand as well. What is our purpose here?

Furthermore, what do we learn from our participation here? That the most unlikely people can do the most heinous things. If anything, this place should be an eye-opener and a mind-opener. Beautiful children murdered by their supposedly loving parents. Beautiful women murdered by supposedly devoted husbands. A evangelical preacher's bodyguard slaughtering his wife and two little boys for a dog track waitress that he was taking WITH HIM on his trips for the EVANGELIST!

All this is beyond my comprehension, but unfortunately....not beyond possibility.

JW lied, LE knows it, we all know it. I agree it makes him a suspicious character, but some of these leaps look like Evil Knievel and the Grand Canyon.

I agree that it's fun to speculate, we are trying to solve puzzles, that's why we're here.


<modsnip>

I dunno exactly why I feel so strongly, but I think maybe it's the words used and the intent behind them. We have a right to be angry at what was done to innocent people and it's natural to lash out, but until I know otherwise, I'll continue to entertain the views of JW that are opposite of mine and are expressed thoughtfully and intelligently.

<modsnip>

No jumping the shark and I hate that phrase, but someone used it upthread and it hits the spot!

:drumroll:

 

[popsicle]

We will learn quite a bit I think the preliminary hearing. Isn't it coming up soon?

Thursday, 7/2 at 2:15pm in Courtroom 316. Hopefully it won't be waived.

 

[kammiemc]

I don't see JW as a 'cold as ice' person. I could be totally wrong. I might be biased. But his lies were not saying ' he never dropped off money' or something substantive that would obstruct the investigation. Nor were they long standing. He lied about some of the details and I don't believe it was because he is as cold as ice. I think it was the opposite. JMO

No, I'M cold as ice on the matter! Not JW. As unfair as it might be, I find myself caring less about the repercussions JW is facing and more about the victims. I admit it.


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[BondGirl]

What about NG? Did she want the <modsnip>10 yr old tortured to death too? Sick of cleaning up after him maybe?

She referred to him as "the little boy". I think Vera was at the S home more often. I don't see her as having an emotional connection with PS. I feel JW was not liking being forced to confront the reality of his life and was having a "quarter life" existential psychological crisis.

 

[katydid23]

Absolutely! Look at Israel Keyes. I would have hired this guy to do work for me. Who would have thunk it?


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Israel Keyes background is very very different from JW's. IK was from a very dysfunctional background and had shown himself to be troubled since childhood. You might not have known and might have hired him, but he did not have the normal middle class background and family that JW has.

 

[BondGirl]

Israel Keyes background is very very different from JW's. IK was from a very dysfunctional background and had shown himself to be troubled since childhood. You might not have known and might have hired him, but he did not have the normal middle class background and family that JW has.

I have noticed that many feel like DW had a lower class background and JW had a middle class one. I don't see a difference. Same neighborhood. Both went to community college. What am i missing?

 

[katydid23]

She referred to him as "the little boy". I think Vera was at the S home more often. I don't see her as having an emotional connection with PS. I feel JW was not liking being forced to confront the reality of his life and was having a "quarter life" existential psychological crisis.

SO you are onboard with the theory that NG and JW paid DW to torture the little boy?

 

[katydid23]

I have noticed that many feel like DW had a lower class background and JW had a middle class one. I don't see a difference. Same neighborhood. Both went to community college. What am i missing?

Look at their criminal history and the widespread criminal history of the Wint siblings. Compare it to JW who was raised by a father who was a cop. BIG difference in their childhoods, imo. How many Wint kids were there? I have lost count but I do not believe they had a very stable home life as they were growing up. JMO

 

[katydid23]

<modsnip>

Sorry, but it does rile me up a little. My 'research' shows me that Wint <modsnip> has a long and violent criminal history. Wint has threatened to kill AN INFANT, as well as his 8 yr old baby sister. Threatened to kill his family. He has been arrested for domestic violence.

And yet, people want to put forth the theory that a young man with ZERO violence in his past, and ZERO criminal history, is the real source of the violence. DW has the blood on his shoes and left his DNA in the house, has been arrested for burglaries before, but somehow this is all JW's doing. I find it offensive on some levels. JMO

 

[BondGirl]

SO you are onboard with the theory that NG and JW paid DW to torture the little boy?

No not at all. Where are you getting that from?

 

[kammiemc]

JW lied, LE knows it, we all know it. I agree it makes him a suspicious character, but some of these leaps look like Evil Knievel and the Grand Canyon.

I agree that it's fun to speculate, we are trying to solve puzzles, that's why we're here.


<modsnip>

I dunno exactly why I feel so strongly, but I think maybe it's the words used and the intent behind them. We have a right to be angry at what was done to innocent people and it's natural to lash out, but until I know otherwise, I'll continue to entertain the views of JW that are opposite of mine and are expressed thoughtfully and intelligently.

<modsnip>

No jumping the shark and I hate that phrase, but someone used it upthread and it hits the spot!

:drumroll:

That was me re Jump the Shark. I do get uncomfortable when people start stating opinion as fact. For the record, I don't think JW must have committed murder because he was boastful on SM. In fact, I don't even really think those posts are suspicious. The lies are very suspicious and though they were details, they were details that implied something bigger--that maybe he never dropped the money in the car at all if he didn't know whether it was locked or not. Maybe he never talked to SS at all if he couldn't figure out when he got instructions. Maybe he took the money out of the Manila envelope from the acct and never put it back into another Manila envelope because he knew it was not being to delivered to SS for the dojo.

These aren't wild speculations, but theories (or like the theories) that caused LE to out him in the public eye.

If he turns out to have zero involvement, I will admit I was wrong and that other posters have better instincts than mine. So I might feel slight embarrassment, but not remorse. My opinion in an investigation chat room is not important enough, or impactful enough to affect JW's life in any way.

But JW has the power to affect his life. He didn't have to lie. And he now has the power to clear his name. He has the rest of the life to live. Heck, even OJ got another gf. Maybe I'll soften up and feel bad if is cleared. Maybe LE will too.


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[katydid23]

I'm talking socioeconomic only. Where is the difference between them?

IMO< it is not about socioeconomics. It is about love and support and the ability to raise a child to respect others and the law. That did not happen with all of the Wint siblings.

 

[katydid23]

No not at all. Where are you getting that from?

From the following post:


She referred to him as "the little boy". I think Vera was at the S home more often. I don't see her as having an emotional connection with PS. I feel JW was not liking being forced to confront the reality of his life and was having a "quarter life" existential psychological crisis.


It seems^^^ like you are saying that NG had no emotional connection to Phillip and JW was having a meltdown. And you seem to be saying they are involved in the crime. Some here have accused JW of 'paying' DW for the hit against PS and wanting it to be torture. It seemed like you are in agreement.


ETA: See below for an example of those saying JW paid for little Phillip to be tortured:


Instrumental is a good term. A means to lead to the end result. DW simply did not care. He may have been paid "extra" to torture the child to send a message to the parent who indulged the child.

I think a parent would cave at the mere threat of harm to a child and JW strikes me as the type who would hire a hit before getting his hands dirty.

 

[TheRidge]

<modsnip>

I do think that Wint could've acted alone...and unfortunately JW was just a Dunce with no common sense to question putting the $$$ into a car...I wish he'd called his father, a retired police officer...and the living housekeeper is like a vulture, just making $$$ off of the dead bodies, it just disgusts me...so maybe SS was just human: a kind heart who surrounded himself with people he trusted who turned out to be less than zero.

 

[kammiemc]

f
I remember that and I am fairly certain there is a thread on that case here but I don't remember the guy's name.

At the risk of mid snip, it's Nicolas Francisco. It comes up almost every time my old colleagues meet up because we still can hardly believe it.

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[facundo]

Is there any research showing JW ever being violent or abusive?

Court records do not show JW being violent or abusive. Only traffic citations.

 

[katydid23]

I asked a question about "middle class" and you are jumping all over me. Can we stick to the socioeconomic facts please. Thanks! I get that you are on Team JW and that's cool but i'm not fighting you.

I am sorry if you feel I am jumping all over you. I am just responding to some of the recent posts that are accusing JW of hiring a hit man to torture a 10 yr old boy. I think that is a bit over the top, jmo.

I am not on team JW. I can believe that he might have sold some inside info. I don't think he did, but can believe it is possible. But I do not see any evidence that he was the evil =mastermind behind this brutal carnage.

As for socioeconomics, sorry, but I don't think that has anything to do with this. I said I thought they had different childhoods, but not because of socioeconomics. But because of the way they were raised. JMO