DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[dotr]

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/plane-crash-dca-potomac-washington-dc-01-29-25/index.html

''The head of the National Transportation Safety Board made a plea for people to give the agency time to verify the facts as it works to investigate what caused the collision between a passenger plane and a helicopter on Wednesday.

“It’s not that we don’t have information. We do have information, we have data. We have substantial amounts of information — we need to verify information. We need to take our time to make sure it is accurate,” NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy said Thursday.

She said this level of verification is important for all parties involved, including families of the victims.

“We do have a lot of information, but we need some time to verify that,” Homendy reiterated.''

 

[DS2021]

2 more new names

Redirect Notice

Also killed was 12-year-old Brielle Beyer and her mother, Justyna Magdalena Beyer, who lived in a Virginia suburb of Washington. They were in Wichita so Brielle could sharpen her skating skills.

 

[PrairieWind]

3 competent pilots in the helicopter and one can't see the plane they are about to hit and say whoooah...they can stop on a dime and hover...very puzzling

This is very controlled airspace. They fly where they are told to fly. The AA flight seems to be on a normal approach. So I don't think they are at fault. So how did the helicopter, in its corridor, get trafficked into the this flight path? Did they just disobey ATC directions? The recordings don't seem to support that so far.

 

[Seattle1]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/washington-plane-crash-helicopter-1.7445722

1/30/25

Heavily congested area​

Military helicopters and passenger airplanes are common sights along the Potomac River in the Washington region, where the collision happened. The area is home to numerous military bases and three major airports.

Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport is particularly busy. Over a three-year period ending in 2019, there were 88,000 helicopter flights within 48 kilometres of it, including about 33,000 military and 18,000 law enforcement flights, the U.S. Government Accountability Office said in a 2021 report.

[..]

There have been several near-miss incidents at Reagan National that have sparked alarm, including a near-collision in May 2024 between an American Airlines jet and a small airplane and one in April 2024 between Southwest and JetBlue airplanes.

 

[justtrish]

D.C. Plane Crash Live Updates: Black Boxes Recovered From Plane And Helicopter

Sixty-seven people died in a collision between a Bombardier CRJ700 regional jet operated by PSA Airlines and a military Black Hawk helicopter.

www.forbes.com

Jan 30, 2025

A preliminary investigation report into the crash that occurred between a commercial plane and a military helicopter Wednesday night reportedly showed the air traffic control tower staffing level at Ronald Reagan National Airport, where the passenger jet was headed, was “not normal for the time of day and level of traffic,” The New York Times reported.

[..]

The tower at the airport has been understaffed for years, the Times reported.


Jan. 30, 1:20 p.m. ESTArmy officials confirmed that two pilots of the helicopter—one man and one woman—and a male staff sergeant crew member were killed in the collision. Their bodies have been recovered.

I feel like safety should be above all else and if flight controllers are short staffed, then there should be a reduction in planes arriving/leaving. I understand this would mess up connecting flights and so on, but if there aren't enough ATC's to safely communicate with ALL aircraft, then there just aren't enough.

Would they allow commercial planes to fly without 2 pilots? I think not. So why is a heavily congested area with multiple airports and military bases, along with key places like the Pentagon, White House, and Capitol.. all within a short distance away allowed to be controlled like this without enough staff to get it done safely?

 

[steeltowngirl]

2 more new names

Redirect Notice

Also killed was 12-year-old Brielle Beyer and her mother, Justyna Magdalena Beyer, who lived in a Virginia suburb of Washington. They were in Wichita so Brielle could sharpen her skating skills.

I am so sad for these families. Somehow I pictured the plane would be full of adult businessmen returning from a conference. Grown adults who choose to fly for business often, and understand the risks. And I know, I know! Someone will come at me for feeling this.. I know their lives matter too! But I just hoped somehow there would not be many children. Only to find out many children were killed. It's devastating.

jmo

 

[justtrish]

Isn't the ATC staffing at the time almost a moot point? The Black Hawk pilot confirmed visual separation clearance which means it was his duty to avoid since he agreed.

How did ATC confirm that the Black Hawk pilot was confirming seeing the correct plane? Who was watching this to ensure that the helicopter was avoiding the correct plane? Maybe if properly staffed the ATC would see other planes close by and work to ensure that the helo is avoiding the correct plane? If this plane was set to land on runway 1, right behind another plane that landed on runway 1, and then it is asked to switch to runway 33.. why is that? Seems landing on runway 1 puts it well out of the way of the helicopter and asking it to switch put it in the path of the helicopter. If that change contributed to this disaster, then it could be related to being short staffed if that is something the ATC could/should have picked up on. I am just offering possible scenarios.

 

[Dotta]

"American Airlines pilot, co-pilot
and two flight attendants
are identified after DC air disaster."

Rest in Peace.

Pilot and first officer of the doomed American Eagle revealed

The pilot and first officer of the crashed American Airlines flight that was collided with by a military helicopter and split in two has been identified.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[indicolite22]

This is very controlled airspace. They fly where they are told to fly. The AA flight seems to be on a normal approach. So I don't think they are at fault. So how did the helicopter, in its corridor, get trafficked into the this flight path? Did they just disobey ATC directions? The recordings don't seem to support that so far.

The helicopter pilot wasn't told where to fly, he was told to avoid (maintain separation from) the incoming plane that he confirmed he had in sight.

 

[dotr]

Rbbm

Helicopter Pilots Had Night Vision Goggles at Time of Crash. Expert Says They Could 'Make It Harder to See' (Exclusive)

Department of Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has said that the pilots aboard the U.S. Army helicopter that collided with an American Airlines plane were carrying night vision goggles — but an expert says that could have hurt their ability to see other aircraft.

people.com

''On Thursday morning, Hegseth said in a video message on X, "It was a fairly experienced crew that was doing a required annual night evaluation." He added, "They did have night vision goggles."
Night vision goggles are designed to enhance operational safety and improve the pilot's ability to see and avoid obstructions at night, per the FAA.
However, an active-duty U.S. Army pilot tells PEOPLE that the goggles may have actually hindered the pilots’ efforts to avert the crash. ''

“Those goggles are designed for situations where the only light is moonlight or starlight. If you already have a lot of things moving around and blinking, it could throw things off,” the pilot tells PEOPLE. “They could make it harder to see what's going on in the sky.”
Jan 30 '25 rbbm.

What we know about American Airlines plane crash in Washington DC

Sixty-seven people are believed to have died in Wednesday's disaster, which is being investigated.

www.bbc.com

''Recordings of air traffic control conversations published online suggested that a controller tried to warn the helicopter about the American Airlines plane in the seconds before the collision.
The helicopter pilot appears to respond to confirm they are aware of the plane, but moments later the two aircrafts crashed''.

''The FAA said it would investigate the incident, together with the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). Hegseth said he expected this to quickly establish whether the helicopter was flying in the right corridor and altitude.''

 

[Justice101]

I am so sad for these families. Somehow I pictured the plane would be full of adult businessmen returning from a conference. Grown adults who choose to fly for business often, and understand the risks. And I know, I know! Someone will come at me for feeling this.. I know their lives matter too! But I just hoped somehow there would not be many children. Only to find out many children were killed. It's devastating.

jmo

As a 64 year old if I was on that plane, I would have definitely traded places with a family member of mine if I could.

The thought of a young person not having a chance to live a long life like me is just so very sad.

I have a daughter who is 30 as well as a new 3 month old grandbaby.

 

[Seattle1]

Jan 30, 2025

Deadly DC plane-helicopter collision highlights crowded US airspace concerns | NBC4 Washington​

Video discusses change by congress last year to expand beyond perimeter rule expanding number of incoming flights/slots to Reagan National (without physical expansion).

 

[LoveyG]

This is very controlled airspace. They fly where they are told to fly. The AA flight seems to be on a normal approach. So I don't think they are at fault. So how did the helicopter, in its corridor, get trafficked into the this flight path? Did they just disobey ATC directions? The recordings don't seem to support that so far.

Honest question. Does airport ATC typically control military flights out on maneuvers? I would have thought the military controls it's own aircraft. I have no idea how it all works, though.

 

[indicolite22]

Rbbm

Helicopter Pilots Had Night Vision Goggles at Time of Crash. Expert Says They Could 'Make It Harder to See' (Exclusive)

Department of Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has said that the pilots aboard the U.S. Army helicopter that collided with an American Airlines plane were carrying night vision goggles — but an expert says that could have hurt their ability to see other aircraft.

people.com

''On Thursday morning, Hegseth said in a video message on X, "It was a fairly experienced crew that was doing a required annual night evaluation." He added, "They did have night vision goggles."
Night vision goggles are designed to enhance operational safety and improve the pilot's ability to see and avoid obstructions at night, per the FAA.
However, an active-duty U.S. Army pilot tells PEOPLE that the goggles may have actually hindered the pilots’ efforts to avert the crash. ''

“Those goggles are designed for situations where the only light is moonlight or starlight. If you already have a lot of things moving around and blinking, it could throw things off,” the pilot tells PEOPLE. “They could make it harder to see what's going on in the sky.”
Jan 30 '25 rbbm.

What we know about American Airlines plane crash in Washington DC

Sixty-seven people are believed to have died in Wednesday's disaster, which is being investigated.

www.bbc.com

''Recordings of air traffic control conversations published online suggested that a controller tried to warn the helicopter about the American Airlines plane in the seconds before the collision.
The helicopter pilot appears to respond to confirm they are aware of the plane, but moments later the two aircrafts crashed''.

''The FAA said it would investigate the incident, together with the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). Hegseth said he expected this to quickly establish whether the helicopter was flying in the right corridor and altitude.''

The goggles might also affect peripheral vision.

 

[Ssschu]

Jan 30, 2025

Deadly DC plane-helicopter collision highlights crowded US airspace concerns | NBC4 Washington​

Video discusses change by congress last year to expand beyond perimeter rule expanding number of incoming flights/slots to Reagan National (without physical expansion).

So Congress added more air traffic to this airport that was known to be extremely short staffed on ATC?!? SMH

 

[Charlot123]

How did ATC confirm that the Black Hawk pilot was confirming seeing the correct plane? Who was watching this to ensure that the helicopter was avoiding the correct plane? Maybe if properly staffed the ATC would see other planes close by and work to ensure that the helo is avoiding the correct plane? If this plane was set to land on runway 1, right behind another plane that landed on runway 1, and then it is asked to switch to runway 33.. why is that? Seems landing on runway 1 puts it well out of the way of the helicopter and asking it to switch put it in the path of the helicopter. If that change contributed to this disaster, then it could be related to being short staffed if that is something the ATC could/should have picked up on. I am just offering possible scenarios.

I read yesterday it could be due to winds, but don’t know. Trying to imagine…how can an ATC manage civilian airplanes and military helicopters? There is a limit.

Any major hospital has a helipad, they can land there and wait, no?

 

[justtrish]

The helicopter pilot wasn't told where to fly, he was told to avoid (maintain separation from) the incoming plane that he confirmed he had in sight.

Great point! How is the helicopter pilot supposed to know exactly where the plane he's trying to avoid is going to fly? It sounds great to say just avoid and fly behind it.. well great, which way is it going and when? Seems they were already too close to one another in my non expert opinion. They were allowed to be too close to begin with and just telling one to avoid the other seems like it only works if the one avoiding knows the flight path of the one it's trying to avoid.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The helicopter pilot wasn't told where to fly, he was told to avoid (maintain separation from) the incoming plane that he confirmed he had in sight.

Does that mean the controller gave the responsibility to maintain separation solely to the helicopter pilot and he no longer had to monitor the two converging aircraft?

 

[indicolite22]

Great point! How is the helicopter pilot supposed to know exactly where the plane he's trying to avoid is going to fly? It sounds great to say just avoid and fly behind it.. well great, which way is it going and when? Seems they were already too close to one another in my non expert opinion. They were allowed to be too close to begin with and just telling one to avoid the other seems like it only works if the one avoiding knows the flight path of the one it's trying to avoid.

It seems like the helicopter pilot was given the altitude and landing direction (runway number) for the plane. Someone posted the pertinent ATC instruction upthread.

 

[Jade]

​

NTSB will brief victims' families later today, board member says​

From CNN's Dalia Faheid


National Transportation Safety Board member Todd Inman said the agency will be briefing the families of victims of Flight 5342 later today.

“We normally try to do this before media events, but in this case, they’re still arriving,” he said at a news conference Thursday. “Our family assistance specialists are already working closely with local officials and others to help assist them in their efforts to support everyone that’s affected by this accident.”

Many of those families are en route to the scene, while others are being notified, Inman said. A family assistance facility is being set up by American and PSA airlines in Bethesda, Maryland, he said.

Loss of life in an aviation accident is “very unusual in the United States,” Inman said. The agency will find out what happened through multiple working groups, he added. “We will do it factually and we will do it accurately,” Inman said.

“Our heart-filled sorrow goes out to everyone that’s affected,” Inman said in an emotional tone. “It affects us, affects everyone around us. There are a lot of people hurting today.”

If the families wish to visit the collision site, NTSB can arrange it once it’s safe and perishable evidence has been collected, Inman said. “It will take some time,” he said.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/plane-crash-dca-potomac-washington-dc-01-29-25/index.html