DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[indicolite22]

The video below includes the audio between the tower and PAT25 where the helicopter pilot confirms visual with the plane and seeks approval to pass.

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Do we know if he saw the same plane he later collided with?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Do we know if he saw the same plane he later collided with?

I doubt that PAT25 had the CRJ insight. He first said that he had a visual long before they got close together and again right before the collision. He should have easily avoided the CRJ if that was what he was looking at. JMO.

 

[ekc]

Is it just me or did the helicopter seem to make a straight beeline towards the plane?

makes you wonder who is first in the plane...secondly was this a practice run..just a thought

 

[shetalksinstereo]

My only thought on that is they originally said they had visual on the plane, but later when ATC was trying to contact them they said nothing because the plane they thought was the plane was not? If they were trying to find the plane the ATC was referring to before responding to them and maybe they just didn't see it. I don't know what it might look like inside the helicopter or what view you might have immediately above or at certain angles and above.. maybe they were not seeing the plane ATC was referring to and they didn't know it until it was too late. If they were watching a totally different plane maybe they realized too late?

I hope the black box from the helicopter will shed light on it. IF they are talking to each other inside the helicopter and looking for the plane hopefully that will be clear in the black box recording.

It looks like there is another plane in the vicinity in the footage, maybe the helicopter was thinking it was THAT plane?

 

[sds71]

A preliminary FAA report says staffing in the air traffic control tower at Reagan National was "not normal" last night.

One controller was managing both helicopters in the vicinity and planes — tasks typically divided between two controllers.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885052262223143249

 

[Cryptic]

Usually when we read about the catastrophes, the official culprit exists, but it is far from the whole story. If you remember the Tenerife collision, there KLM captain took the blame. However, start with the bomb explosion at the Gran Canaria airport, the subsequent diversion of traffic, the horrible congestion of Los Rodeos airport at Tenerife, and the dense fog. Add poor communication with the ATC tower (stress + different native languages while communicating in English). Net result: 583 fatalities + 61 injured.

Good points about a chain of small events creating a situation that led to 583 deaths.

One could probably add: "Over reaction to the threat". The terrorist group in question that wanted independence for the Canary Islands were far more 1970s style trendy lefty college kid revolutionaries than serious terrorists.

The group had never killed anybody, but liked sowing confusion and panic for their "cause" (very few supporters outside of their own minds). Their bombs / "bombs" were really glorified fire crackers accompanied by propaganda slogans.

The bomb in question had been put in a trash can by a flower stall at the airport. The girl running the stall was shook up, but very lightly injured. The terrorists then boasted about another bomb (there was none).

Of course, 20/20 hind sight is crystal clear regarding the later collision of two 747s and 583 deaths when the entire airport was shut down to look for the non existent second bomb / "bomb". Even still, one needs to wonder if there was an over reaction.

 

[Betty P]

Sure. But if the media demands are not met, the government is stonewalling. So the Dept of Trans and Dept of Def immediately gave a press conference to say what they know so far. And of course, they are blasted for that.

Right, its standard operating procedure after these accidents for the leaders (Secy Transportation, etc.) to express sympathy, state what facts are known about the event, then carefully explain that NTSB is investigating and will provide a summary soon.

They usually have to repeat many times that everyone has to be patient for the NTSB preliminary report and later final report. They'll usually say whether the black box has been located, talk about family and retrieving victims, who is working, play 911 and ATC recordings, but most don't speculate.

The news media understands these rules and reports as best they can with the information that's available - interviews with witnesses, aviation experts, etc. It's usually enough. It has to be. NTSB has to do their job without undue influence from the government, media, airline execs, etc. Those are the rules of the game and everyone has been following them since at least the early 1960s.

Frankly, I was kind of surprised to see the CEO of American Airlines quickly declaring they weren't at fault. Maybe I'm wrong, but the CEO's don't usually make such a declarative statement so early. They may not be at fault, but there's a process, procedures to follow. Wait until NTSB gives a report.

JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

Excellent post! Why exactly was DEI brought up?

Someone said that they hoped the controller name didn’t get out, then someone said it was a female voice and then it went on from there, iirc.

I think it was the choppers fault who ever was flying it.

It’s obvious to me that the most qualified should get the jobs of pilot or controller.

Jmo

 

[RexLuther]

Do we know if he saw the same plane he later collided with?

The view of the more experienced people on this is the PAT25 pilot was looking at AAL3130 which is a bigger plane and at a more direct angle with lights. Then there is a question of TCAS/ACAS but the people over at pprune.org know more about that.

 

[Seattle1]

D.C. Plane Crash Live Updates: Black Boxes Recovered From Plane And Helicopter

Sixty-seven people died in a collision between a Bombardier CRJ700 regional jet operated by PSA Airlines and a military Black Hawk helicopter.

www.forbes.com

Jan 30, 2025

A preliminary investigation report into the crash that occurred between a commercial plane and a military helicopter Wednesday night reportedly showed the air traffic control tower staffing level at Ronald Reagan National Airport, where the passenger jet was headed, was “not normal for the time of day and level of traffic,” The New York Times reported.

[..]

The tower at the airport has been understaffed for years, the Times reported.


Jan. 30, 1:20 p.m. ESTArmy officials confirmed that two pilots of the helicopter—one man and one woman—and a male staff sergeant crew member were killed in the collision. Their bodies have been recovered.

 

[steeltowngirl]

NTSB holding a press conference now.
They are committed to leave “no stone unturned.”
They will not speculate on probable cause.
They plan to release a preliminary report in 30 days.

NTSB will stand up investigation groups: operations, structure, power plans, systems, air traffic control, survival factors group, helicopter, human performance.

 

[IceIce9]

Do we know if he saw the same plane he later collided with?

My guess is that he was looking at a different plane than the CRJ that he collided with.

JMO

 

[Justice101]

A preliminary FAA report says staffing in the air traffic control tower at Reagan National was "not normal" last night.

One controller was managing both helicopters in the vicinity and planes — tasks typically divided between two controllers.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885052262223143249

Isn't the ATC staffing at the time almost a moot point? The Black Hawk pilot confirmed visual separation clearance which means it was his duty to avoid since he agreed.

 

[indicolite22]

The view of the more experienced people on this is the PAT25 pilot was looking at AAL3130 which is a bigger plane and at a more direct angle with lights. Then there is a question of TCAS/ACAS but the people over at pprune.org know more about that.

Yes, pprune is a go to place in cases like this one.

 

[Joe Friday]

Some suggest that the helicopter pilot was monitoring a different CRJ that was taking off at the time. If only ATC told him the direction which the conflicting traffic was coming from.

ATC did tell the helicopter pilot where the American Airlines plane was and what runway they would be lining up for. This should have informed the helicopter pilot where the American Airlines plane was and the flight path they would be taking. Therefor the helicopter pilot should have know what direction the American Airlines plane was coming from. (Planes land into the wind. Depending on which way the wind is blowing, determines which direction they would be coming from to land. If the wind is blowing from the north, the planes will be coming from the south. Winds at the time of the accident were from 320 degrees (North North West) at 17 knots, gusting 25 knots) as stated by ATC to a different crew just prior to the accident.


ATC: PAT25, traffic just south of Woodrow bridge, a CRJ, it's 1200 feet setting up for runway 33
Blackhawk: PAT25 has traffic in sight, request visual separation.

 

[PrairieWind]

Isn't the ATC staffing at the time almost a moot point? The Black Hawk pilot confirmed visual separation clearance which means it was his duty to avoid since he agreed.

It is very moot. ATC is responsible for the air space. Both aircraft appear to have been in their correct corrodors, but the timing was wrong. ATC talked to the helicopter pilot about seeing the jet, but it seems clear he was looking at the wrong plane. But regardless, it is ATC responsibility to control the air space.

 

[indicolite22]

ATC did tell the helicopter pilot where the American Airlines plane was and what runway they would be lining up for.
...
ATC: PAT25, traffic just south of Woodrow bridge, a CRJ, it's 1200 feet setting up for runway 33
Blackhawk: PAT25 has traffic in sight, request visual separation.

SBM. True, runway 33 implies a direction.

 

[Seattle1]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885010993266209185

 

[Justice101]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885010993266209185

These are real people like you and me.

It sickens me, especially with the young people who had their whole lives in front of them.

 

[ekc]

It is very moot. ATC is responsible for the air space. Both aircraft appear to have been in their correct corrodors, but the timing was wrong. ATC talked to the helicopter pilot about seeing the jet, but it seems clear he was looking at the wrong plane. But regardless, it is ATC responsibility to control the air space.

3 competent pilots in the helicopter and one can't see the plane they are about to hit and say whoooah...they can stop on a dime and hover...very puzzling