DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[sds71]

The pilots of Flight 5342 have been identified as Captain Jonathan Campos, 34, and First Officer Sam Lilley, 28

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885028827929186549

 

[Chimera]

I wish the media would leave him alone. SO sad.

I thought about that and I agree , however I'm thinking the reporter would've asked him before videoing -- if it was ok to speak to him, on record ?
And maybe the husband didn't yet know for sure or was in shock and said 'yes', he'd be willing to answer some questions.

I can't imagine being in this poor man's place -- but part of me might want to talk to a reporter and get my questions out there --- as in, hypothetically speaking -- "WHY did this happen and I want to know if anyone was at fault, I want answers and if there was carelessness that led to this tragedy, someone needs to be held responsible, etc. ?
Not like the reporter knew much yet, but in his line of work he may be able to ask the husbands' questions for him.
There are military pressers going to happen for the helicopter crew, one would assume, and also pressers addressing the army's side of this disaster, correct ?
We've been told the chopper crew wasn't inexperienced.

So that reporter could maybe get into one and speak for him.
Just throwing that out there, and hope it made sense.

Man reveals chilling last words with wife on doomed flight

A man whose wife was on the doomed American Airlines Flight 5342 showed a reporter his heartbreaking final texts to her before the crash.

www.dailymail.co.uk

From this link ^^^ here's a reaction from that reporter who spoke to Raza :

The WUSA reporter has described his conversation with Raza as 'one of the most heartbreaking interviews of my professional career'.

Omo.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Video of an emotional Nancy speaking is in this article.

(NEXSTAR) — American former ice skater Nancy Kerrigan is speaking to the media after a deadly plane crash in Washington, D.C. left no survivors, including skaters from the Skating Club of Boston.

Kerrigan, an Olympic medalist, is an alum of the club.

https://www.nxsttv.com/nmw/news/nancy-kerrigan-speaks-at-skating-club-of-boston-following-deadly-plane-crash/

 

[Charlot123]

I believe it is too early to blame anyone.
It was probably a chain of events that made it happen, on all sides. I might have my own culprit in mind, but it doesn’t matter because the main question is, what do we need to change to prevent future catastrophes?

A congested Reagan airport, now perhaps more than usual, places a very high stress on ATCs and the pilots.

Evening, new moon (poor light), a windy and cold day. Not the best time for the training flight. Not a good decision to choose the evening time of an airport in DC for the Black Hawk, but maybe there were reasons for them that we are not aware of.

Usually when we read about the catastrophes, the official culprit exists, but it is far from the whole story. If you remember the Tenerife collision, there KLM captain took the blame. However, start with the bomb explosion at the Gran Canaria airport, the subsequent diversion of traffic, the horrible congestion of Los Rodeos airport at Tenerife, and the dense fog. Add poor communication with the ATC tower (stress + different native languages while communicating in English). Net result: 583 fatalities + 61 injured.

The only thing we can do is trace the events, from all angles, discuss whether there were alternatives for all sides, and (sigh) update rules and regulations to prevent such happenings in the future.

Pointing fingers helps less than transparency and discussing all potential actions that might have prevented the disaster.

P. S. Remember how 2024 started? January 2nd, collision at Haneda airport. Start with the Jan 1 Noto Earthquake. Just an example.

RIP all the victims. Young people.

 

[Chimera]

I am curious where runway 1 is and if the plane initially going straight before making that left turn is the normal approach for runway 1.. I see that very clear right angle turn the helicopter did a little before the crash so was that the helicopter getting out of the way of the plane as it is approaching to runway 1? It seems if the plane kept going straight it would have intersected the helicopter if the helicopter didn't make that abrupt turn.. but then the plane makes the turn toward the left and so now the helicopter is in the way again.. It's like it's trying to avoid the plane, but the plane changes course.

Trying to imagine how this happened but need some sort of visual map.
Looking at the flight tracker path the plane appears to change direction at the last moment, but that was to line up with the runway, correct ?
Imo.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I believe it is too early to blame anyone.
It was probably a chain of events that made it happen, on all sides. I might have my own culprit in mind, but it doesn’t matter because the main question is, what do we need to change to prevent future catastrophes?

A congested Reagan airport, now perhaps more than usual, places a very high stress on ATCs and the pilots.

Evening, new moon (poor light), a windy and cold day. Not the best time for the training flight. Not a good decision to choose the evening time of an airport in DC for the Black Hawk, but maybe there were reasons for them that we are not aware of.

Usually when we read about the catastrophes, the official culprit exists, but it is far from the whole story. If you remember the Tenerife collision, there KLM captain took the blame. However, start with the bomb explosion at the Gran Canaria airport, the subsequent diversion of traffic, the horrible congestion of Los Rodeos airport at Tenerife, and the dense fog. Add poor communication with the ATC tower (stress + different native languages while communicating in English). Net result: 583 fatalities + 61 injured.

The only thing we can do is trace the events, from all angles, discuss whether there were alternatives for all sides, and (sigh) update rules and regulations to prevent such happenings in the future.

Pointing fingers helps less than transparency and discussing all potential actions that might have prevented the disaster.

P. S. Remember how 2024 started? January 2nd, collision at Haneda airport. Start with the Jan 1 Noto Earthquake. Just an example.

RIP all the victims. Young people.

Well said @Charlot123

 

[PrairieWind]

I believe it is too early to blame anyone.
It was probably a chain of events that made it happen, on all sides. I might have my own culprit in mind, but it doesn’t matter because the main question is, what do we need to change to prevent future catastrophes?

A congested Reagan airport, now perhaps more than usual, places a very high stress on ATCs and the pilots.

Evening, new moon (poor light), a windy and cold day. Not the best time for the training flight. Not a good decision to choose the evening time of an airport in DC for the Black Hawk, but maybe there were reasons for them that we are not aware of.

Usually when we read about the catastrophes, the official culprit exists, but it is far from the whole story. If you remember the Tenerife collision, there KLM captain took the blame. However, start with the bomb explosion at the Gran Canaria airport, the subsequent diversion of traffic, the horrible congestion of Los Rodeos airport at Tenerife, and the dense fog. Add poor communication with the ATC tower (stress + different native languages while communicating in English). Net result: 583 fatalities + 61 injured.

The only thing we can do is trace the events, from all angles, discuss whether there were alternatives for all sides, and (sigh) update rules and regulations to prevent such happenings in the future.

Pointing fingers helps less than transparency and discussing all potential actions that might have prevented the disaster.

P. S. Remember how 2024 started? January 2nd, collision at Haneda airport. Start with the Jan 1 Noto Earthquake. Just an example.

RIP all the victims. Young people.

Agree, certainly there was a series of mistakes that occurred here. Not just one. It is well known that ATC is overwhelmed and lots of upgrades are necessary and long past due. Hopefully we can get this done.

 

[indicolite22]

This one is very sad for me, so I work at the Springfield Branson Airport and I fuel UH 60 Blackhawks daily. From watching videos and listening to ATC, it almost sounds like the Blackhawk crossed into the path of the PSA. The blackhawk was told to maintain visual separation, so I am not sure if they got disoriented somehow or what.

Some suggest that the helicopter pilot was monitoring a different CRJ that was taking off at the time. If only ATC told him the direction which the conflicting traffic was coming from.

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885034854250651942

 

[Chimera]

The plane was lined up with the runway, coming in to land. There's no doubt who had right of way.

MOO

Yes, thanks for your post, I'd wondered about that yesterday !
I believe you are correct.

Too early to say maybe, but they need to halt or change the chopper's training routes.
Was wondering if the choppers have to obey the exact same rules and regulations as do planes, concerning height/elevation ?
Or do choppers normally fly a bit lower ?
This is such an accident waiting to happen if both planes and helicopters are in the same vicinity.
I've never worked in air traffic control and don't know the procedures, just a layperson here.
Omo.

 

[Megnut]

Trying to imagine how this happened but need some sort of visual map.
Looking at the flight tracker path the plane appears to change direction at the last moment, but that was to line up with the runway, correct ?
Imo.

IIUC the ATC asked the commercial pilot to move to the shorter runway.

JMO

Link confirms.

"A few minutes before the jet was to land, air traffic controllers asked American Airlines Flight 5342 if it could do so on a shorter runway, and the pilots agreed. Controllers cleared the jet to land, and flight tracking sites showed the plane adjust its approach to the new runway."

https://www.newsnationnow.com/travel/dc-crash-paths-american-airlines-flight-5342-helicopter/

 

[imstilla.grandma]

omg, i can't...
Doug Zeghibe, CEO and executive director of the Skating Club of Boston in Norwood, Massachusetts, said two teenage figure skaters, their mothers and two renowned coaches were among 14 members of the U.S. Figure Skating team who were on the American Airlines plane that crashed into the Potomac River near Washington, D.C.

"Skating is a very close and tight-knit community. These kids and their parents — they are here at our skating facility in Norwood six, sometimes seven days a week. It is a close, tight bond, and I think for all of us, we have lost family," Zeghibe said

'We've lost family': Mass. skaters, coaches on plane that crashed midair

Fourteen members of the U.S. Figure Skating team, six of whom are affiliated with the Skating Club of Boston, were on the American Airlines plane that crashed into the Potomac River.

www.wcvb.com

 

[Dotta]

"Doomed Black Hawk helicopter's call sign
sparks fresh mystery following DC plane crash.

The Black Hawk was marked as a PAT 25,
which stands for priority air transport
and is usually reserved for when the Army is conducting VIP missions,
such as having officials onboard.

The Army
has confirmed no officials were onboard the aircraft,
which was carrying three soldiers, a standard sized crew."

Black Hawk helicopter's call sign sparks mystery following DC crash

The military aircraft was conducting a training flight, but some aren't buying it due to the priority call sign and the experience that is required of Black Hawk pilots

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[bluefantastic]

I would recommend Admiral Cloudberg on Medium for a lot of really interesting insight into how plane crashes happen- this one is way too recent for her to have covered yet, but a lot of the theory and mechanics are the same across the board

 

[Chimera]

There was no change of approach on the American Airlines let so i think there were totally unaware of the close proximity of the Blackhawk. Military aircraft often do not have transponders aboard. If the Blackhawk had had a transponder on board, it should have alerted an emergency warning to the American Airlines jet.

All JMO

Bbm.
Maybe they should, esp. in areas of plane traffic ?
My .02.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The timing between the beginning of an investigation and a probable cause determination and report varies based on the complexity of the investigation and the workload of the agency’s investigators. In general, the NTSB tries to complete an investigation within 12 to 24 months, but these and other factors can greatly affect that timing.

It can take the NTSB 2 years to issue a final report with a probable cause.

The Investigative Process

www.ntsb.gov

 

[Justice101]

What I think we know now:
1) Flight AA 5342 was given clearance to change from runway 1 to runway 33 which is further north and east.
2) Black Hawk came in from the land mass between Potomac and Washington Channel basically heading south
3) Flight path shows AA 5342 veering left towards runway 33 about a half a mile north of the "regular" runway 1.
4) Flight AA 5342 did not change its trajectory. Angled semicircle to line up with RW 1.
5) ATC contacted Black Hawk a minute or so before collision to make sure they had visuals on AA 5342. But I did not hear a confirmation from Black Hawk to ATC. (or did I miss something?)
6) The two collided in the Potomac about an eight of a mile from runway 33.

What I think I would like to know:
1) Did the Black Hawk ever acknowledge the message from ATC that they were supposed to look out for the air craft?
2) Assuming I was correct in seeing 2 planes lined behind AA 5342 to the south, was there also maybe a previous plane ahead of AA 5342 that landed ahead of AA 5342 but on runway 1 and thus maybe the Black Hawk thought that is the way that AA 5342 would go? I know this is not how it is supposed to work leaving way too much to chance.
3) Did the Black Hawk have a collision avoidance system and was it on or is it turned off when they go into night vision mode? Also, is there a black box for the helicopter that could shed light on cockpit voice communications and sounds?
4) Why (allegedly) did the ATC give such short notice to the Black Hawk. Was it because he got a warning on his radar system?

I am just like everyone that wants to know the answers and will just have to wait to see what the conclusion is when all the evidence is known and documented.

 

[musicaljoke]

Some suggest that the helicopter pilot was monitoring a different CRJ that was taking off at the time. If only ATC told him the direction which the conflicting traffic was coming from.

It is such a busy airport. When the helicopter pilot said he had a visual on the incoming aircraft, he most likely didn't realize that there was an additional incoming aircraft. My s-i-l is a pilot who flies out of this airport and he explained how easily that could happen once the helicopter pilot requested permission to bypass the normal protocol and was given consent since he could see the airplane.

 

[Justice101]

Is it just me or did the helicopter seem to make a straight beeline towards the plane?

Just the angle of the video... Jet heading more towards the camera and helicopter more perpendicular.

 

[musicaljoke]

What I think we know now:
1) Flight AA 5342 was given clearance to change from runway 1 to runway 33 which is further north and east.
2) Black Hawk came in from the land mass between Potomac and Washington Channel basically heading south
3) Flight path shows AA 5342 veering left towards runway 33 about a half a mile north of the "regular" runway 1.
4) Flight AA 5342 did not change its trajectory. Angled semicircle to line up with RW 1.
5) ATC contacted Black Hawk a minute or so before collision to make sure they had visuals on AA 5342. But I did not hear a confirmation from Black Hawk to ATC. (or did I miss something?)
6) The two collided in the Potomac about an eight of a mile from runway 33.

What I think I would like to know:
1) Did the Black Hawk ever acknowledge the message from ATC that they were supposed to look out for the air craft?
2) Assuming I was correct in seeing 2 planes lined behind AA 5342 to the south, was there also maybe a previous plane ahead of AA 5342 that landed ahead of AA 5342 but on runway 1 and thus maybe the Black Hawk thought that is the way that AA 5342 would go? I know this is not how it is supposed to work leaving way too much to chance.
3) Did the Black Hawk have a collision avoidance system and was it on or is it turned off when they go into night vision mode? Also, is there a black box for the helicopter that could shed light on cockpit voice communications and sounds?
4) Why (allegedly) did the ATC give such short notice to the Black Hawk. Was it because he got a warning on his radar system?

I am just like everyone that wants to know the answers and will just have to wait to see what the conclusion is when all the evidence is known and documented.

The collision avoidance system doesn't work below a certain level because there are so many planes on the ground it would be going all the time. The aircraft would have to be at a certain height above ground level for it to kick in.