DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[Betty P]

If it's human error on the part of the helicopter crew, it's on all of them. They're all playing a role in keeping the aircraft flying safely.

For example, I'm pretty sure I read that the person replying to ATC about seeing the plane was male. So, not her.

MOO

True. I’ve also heard the crew chief is the person responsible for looking out for other aircraft or obstacles. It’s very much a team effort.

 

[Charlot123]

From what I understand, the person who is the subject of speculation is still living. It’s a case of mistaken identity based on rumor.

I’m going to wait until official word is released from NTSB or FAA.

That's very old, lol. Two days ago or such. Yesterday there were new scoops being rinsed in the internet washer. I didn't even follow what they meant, tbh, and don't plan to. I think we have to allow the family to mourn in piece. Who it was, doesn't matter. The helicopter was flying at the higher speed, and of this, all the crew should have been aware, of.

 

[Elley Mae]

National Transportation Safety Board member Todd Inman said in a news briefing Friday evening that the helicopter’s black box has been recovered and appears to be in good condition. NTSB officials had confirmed Thursday that the two black boxes from the airplane were secured. All of the recorders were at NTSB sites for evaluation.

Helicopter black box and 41 bodies recovered; Army identifies 2 soldiers: DC crash recap

While authorities focus on the cause of the US's deadliest aviation disaster since 2001, families are mourning their loved ones. Here's the latest.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Jade]

Army helicopter was alerted to plane’s presence 2 minutes before collision

www.stripes.com

Great source thank you for finding and posting.

That is the first I’ve heard that there was audio from the control tower that captured a sound that was consistent with a conflict alert like a back up camera on a car that says you are getting too close to an object.

At the same time red letters CA flashed next to the two aircraft on a FAA radar screen.

Immediately after the alert the ATC asks PAT25 do you have the CRJ in sight? Pass behind CRJ


I apologize for not quoting properly due to the device I’m on currently so I’ve paraphrased see link for more.

All imo

 

[justtrish]

I haven't followed this story for a few hours. Was there some report in the news indicating experts believe this third member of the helicopter crew is to blame for the accident? I haven't read anything anywhere to indicate anyone knows which of the 3 crew members was responsible for any errors. TIA

No, nothing official. I have seen lots of aviators commenting about possible scenarios and things like that, but no official word on what happened.

Army helicopter pilots are trained in Alabama at Fort Novosel (previously named Fort Rucker). That is where they learn to fly and then get specific instruction on the exact helicopter they will fly (Blackhawk, Apache, Chinook). They complete that training there and then get assigned to a base where they continue to fly and "train". I do know that Blackhawks fly with 2 pilots. It can be flown by 1 though so it doesn't require 2 people to keep it in the air. I think each time they are flying in a new place they have to learn the airspace and maybe they fly with someone that has done it before as they are learning. It doesn't mean they are just learning to fly because they were trained in Alabama and they don't go to their first duty station until they pass the flight school. If the unnamed pilot was the pilot flying at the time (we don't know this for sure, just me giving a possible scenario) then no matter who is at fault, that pilot could be the one blamed in the media.

We are an Army family no in aviation, but I know several aviation families. I have no knowledge about who these pilots are or what occurred, but I do know what the training process is like and it's hard and all who graduate do so because they earned it. All flights are considered training flights if they aren't done in Combat or flying official personnel. That can give the impression that someone is new or is learning to fly, but that isn't the case. It's required they do so many flight hours so those flights are considered training. Accidents do happen and usually it is the result of a mechanical issue or human error. The day this crash happened a F35 pilot safely ejected from his plane in Alaska before it crashed. Just yesterday they announced 2 soldiers died at Fort Stewart, GA in a training accident. It happens and thankfully innocent civilians are usually not in harms way when it does.

Edited to add the Fort Stewart accident was a vehicle, not helo/plane.

 

[Elley Mae]

Army helicopter was alerted to plane’s presence two minutes before collision

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2025/01/31/audio-air-traffic-control-dc-plane-crash/

 

[kuromiiiilove]

New footage. Content warning - it shows the collision pretty clearly. Looks like the helicopter never saw the plane at all, IMO.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885306661834785082

 

[Simply Southern]

She was being evaluated at the time. There are two full pilots, how could they possibly be too high and off course.
As deviation from Route 4 began the evaluator shoild have intervened - unless he asked for the deviation.

My thoughts exactly. A second pilot and instructor, why did neither react/correct the deviated flight pattern and altitude?

I watched that video at least 50 times, on my 60 plus inch TV. It appears to me slowing it down framed my frame the helicopter did not deviate it flew straight into the plane. Moo

 

[Simply Southern]

New footage. Content warning - it shows the collision pretty clearly. Looks like the helicopter never saw the plane at all, IMO.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885306661834785082

The helicopter had a full on front view. They had to have seen the plane, they were eye level, almost at the same height. There's a couple of other videos, moo, showing a greater length of time, traveling directly towards the aircraft.
It appears to me, the helicopter never deviated or tried to avoid the aircraft.
Moo...

 

[Elley Mae]

This is from @MassGuy , thanks

I wonder if this plane taking off is the one the chopper thought they were to avoid.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1884792167765291346

 

[bmacmillan1]

The helicopter had a full on front view. They had to have seen the plane, they were eye level, almost at the same height. There's a couple of other videos, moo, showing a greater length of time, traveling directly towards the aircraft.
It appears to me, the helicopter never deviated or tried to avoid the aircraft.
Moo...

To me it looks as though the helicopter was gunning straight for the plane

 

[Betty P]

No, nothing official. I have seen lots of aviators commenting about possible scenarios and things like that, but no official word on what happened.

Army helicopter pilots are trained in Alabama at Fort Novosel (previously named Fort Rucker). That is where they learn to fly and then get specific instruction on the exact helicopter they will fly (Blackhawk, Apache, Chinook). They complete that training there and then get assigned to a base where they continue to fly and "train". I do know that Blackhawks fly with 2 pilots. It can be flown by 1 though so it doesn't require 2 people to keep it in the air. I think each time they are flying in a new place they have to learn the airspace and maybe they fly with someone that has done it before as they are learning. It doesn't mean they are just learning to fly because they were trained in Alabama and they don't go to their first duty station until they pass the flight school. If the unnamed pilot was the pilot flying at the time (we don't know this for sure, just me giving a possible scenario) then no matter who is at fault, that pilot could be the one blamed in the media.

We are an Army family no in aviation, but I know several aviation families. I have no knowledge about who these pilots are or what occurred, but I do know what the training process is like and it's hard and all who graduate do so because they earned it. All flights are considered training flights if they aren't done in Combat or flying official personnel. That can give the impression that someone is new or is learning to fly, but that isn't the case. It's required they do so many flight hours so those flights are considered training. Accidents do happen and usually it is the result of a mechanical issue or human error. The day this crash happened a F35 pilot safely ejected from his plane in Alaska before it crashed. Just yesterday they announced 2 soldiers died at Fort Stewart, GA in a training accident. It happens and thankfully innocent civilians are usually not in harms way when it does.

Edited to add the Fort Stewart accident was a vehicle, not helo/plane.

IIRC, this was a "check" flight, which sounds less like training and more like routine checking of skills. In the Washington DC area, the military routinely conducts these exercises for security reasons. They're part of an overall emergency plan that is practiced daily. It probably requires a lot of military personnel to maintain this security system and part of the plan is regular evaluation and practice to maintain skills. JMO

I'm not sure when these helicopter security patrols started, but I recall seeing it on my visits since 9-11. That event seemed to trigger a lot of new security measures that are still in place today. My impression is this flight was pretty much routine and the people participating were experienced at their jobs, not trying to learn a new skill. JMO

 

[Megnut]

My thoughts exactly. A second pilot and instructor, why did neither react/correct the deviated flight pattern and altitude?

I watched that video at least 50 times, on my 60 plus inch TV. It appears to me slowing it down framed my frame the helicopter did not deviate it flew straight into the plane. Moo

In my uneducated view, the Blackhawk's movements probably make total sense in terms of the plane they were maneuvering to avoid. It seems like it should be simple to plot that course. Whether it was an incoming or outbound plane. Perhaps that's why they gained altitude, in order to "get behind" it, while the AA aircraft stayed in their collective blind spot.

I wonder what other aircraft was being routed in relation to the Blackhawk's flight path. It doesn't seem like the tower altered the AA pilots to the crossflight of the Blackhawk but maybe they don't identify every aircraft within another pilot's personal space. I suppose that's the function and purpose of control personnel, to coordinate flights, providing enough information but not a distracting square of too much information.

I too wonder if the Blackhawk black box will indicate if the pilots attempted any countermeasure in the split second before impact. You get the feeling neither cabin saw the other.

JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

IIRC, this was a "check" flight, which sounds less like training and more like routine checking of skills. In the Washington DC area, the military routinely conducts these exercises for security reasons. They're part of an overall emergency plan that is practiced daily. It probably requires a lot of military personnel to maintain this security system and part of the plan is regular evaluation and practice to maintain skills. JMO

I'm not sure when these helicopter security patrols started, but I recall seeing it on my visits since 9-11. That event seemed to trigger a lot of new security measures that are still in place today. My impression is this flight was pretty much routine and the people participating were experienced at their jobs, not trying to learn a new skill. JMO

I had just read this.

Crashed US Army Black Hawk unit was responsible for doomsday readiness​

MSN

 

[theonewithallthequestions]

The helicopter had a full on front view. They had to have seen the plane, they were eye level, almost at the same height. There's a couple of other videos, moo, showing a greater length of time, traveling directly towards the aircraft.
It appears to me, the helicopter never deviated or tried to avoid the aircraft.
Moo...

From everything I’ve heard and read so far, the helicopter was not at eye level of the plane until they tragically collided. The plane was above the helicopter descending, which is why some people are theorizing that the plane was in the helicopter’s blind spot and vice versa

Hope this link is ok. This simulation helps give a better idea of how this happened because the video footage was confusing to me as well. See the 3:57 mark

 

[TristanP]

Challenger's crew survived the initial explosion but not impact with the water.

I either never knew, or had forgotten this information. It makes it so much worse.

 

[Elley Mae]

"I guarantee it was basically pilot error," an active duty Army helicopter pilot, who did not want to be identified, tells PEOPLE.

The pilot, who is not on the team investigating the crash but has investigated other helicopter collisions in the past, explained: "The Black Hawk accepted responsibility for the separation of traffic. That means, they would monitor and address the flight paths themselves. The Black Hawk asked for 'visual separation,' meaning, 'We got this.' "

The pilot notes that the tower asked the Black Hawk helicopter if they saw the American Airlines aircraft, a PSA Airlines Bombardier CRJ700 regional jet nicknamed "RJ." Though the pilot points out that the Black Hawk, a Sikorsky H-60 helicopter, did confirm it saw the passenger plane, he adds, "We believe they were looking at the wrong plane. They were not looking at the RJ." (According to audio obtained by the Associated Press, an air traffic controller asked the helicopter if it had the landing plane in sight, later adding after no response: “PAT 25 pass behind the CRJ.”)

Aviation Experts Suspect Black Hawk Did Not See American Airlines Plane Before Deadly D.C. Crash: 'It Should Not Have Happened' (Exclusive)

Aviation experts tell PEOPLE it's possible that the U.S. Army Black Hawk helicopter did not see the American Airlines passenger plane before the two collided on Wednesday, Jan. 29, killing 67 people.

people.com

 

[theonewithallthequestions]

Some profiles on the victims identified so far. I didn’t think I could cry more, but here I am sobbing over each heartbreaking story that is emerging.

Sean Kay, the 11 year old skater, was on board with his mother. His father “has three other children, who also compete on the ice. He said he told them to move forward in her honor.
"I had to deliver the news to them, right, and that was the phrase I used, 'Hey, Julia would want you to do this, to skate,'" he said.”

“His wife, Julia, was on the plane with Sean. They had chosen to fly into D.C. and drive about two hours home because it was cheaper than getting a flight to Delaware.”

Liz Keys, another passenger, died on her 33rd birthday.

Robert “Bob” and Lori Schrock were heading to Washington to visit their daughter at college. They were traveling with their two cats.

20 year old Grace Maxwell was returning to college after flying home for her grandfather’s funeral.

Just so tragic and devastating

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/interactive/2025/dca-plane-crash-victims-list-profiles/

2 University of Delaware Figure Skating Club members, former coach killed in plane crash near D.C.

Former University of Delaware Figure Skating Club coach Sasha Kirsanov died in the crash along with two young skaters who trained in Newark.

www.cbsnews.com

20-Year-Old Kansas Woman Died in American Airlines Crash Over D.C. After Returning Home for Grandfather's Funeral, Dad Says

Grace Maxwell, a Cedarville University student, was one of the 60 passengers on the American Airlines regional passenger jet that collided mid-air with a U.S. Army Black Hawk helicopter above the Potomac River on Wednesday, Jan. 29.

people.com

 

[ilovewings]

New footage. Content warning - it shows the collision pretty clearly. Looks like the helicopter never saw the plane at all, IMO.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885306661834785082

I know this was not intentional, but looking at the collision, it looks like the helicopter went straight at the airplane! It is hard to understand how such a horrible thing could happen!!!

 

[Simply Southern]

In my uneducated view, the Blackhawk's movements probably make total sense in terms of the plane they were maneuvering to avoid. It seems like it should be simple to plot that course. Whether it was an incoming or outbound plane. Perhaps that's why they gained altitude, in order to "get behind" it, while the AA aircraft stayed in their collective blind spot.

I wonder what other aircraft was being routed in relation to the Blackhawk's flight path. It doesn't seem like the tower altered the AA pilots to the crossflight of the Blackhawk but maybe they don't identify every aircraft within another pilot's personal space. I suppose that's the function and purpose of control personnel, to coordinate flights, providing enough information but not a distracting square of too much information.

I too wonder if the Blackhawk black box will indicate if the pilots attempted any countermeasure in the split second before impact. You get the feeling neither cabin saw the other.

JMO

Blackhawk's can hoover in a stationary position, then turn on a dime. In 2002, while at work, we heard low flying helicopters, our building was shaking. We all ran outside, looked to the sky to see four Blackhawk helicopters hovering, with military personnel grappling down ropes in the middle of our road. We were petrified. It was a mock hostage training with the post office directly across from us, of which we we're not informed. These guys hovered or at least 30 minutes or more, hoisted up the "hostages" and sped away. Moo

Yes, unless in audio unreleased, AA was not notified. As per many articles the warning system on the AA flight was below the level of receiving a warning. Now we know the ATC was responsible for both the AA flight and the Blackhawk.

I heard, not sure of title, from the NTSB this am press conference. The Blackhawk recorder is only for inflight conversations, no inflight data available. He's hoping to learn from the inflight conversations what transpired. (Moo, cause I don't even remember what station it was on to try to get a link)