DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[TristanP]

The helicopter had a full on front view. They had to have seen the plane, they were eye level, almost at the same height. There's a couple of other videos, moo, showing a greater length of time, traveling directly towards the aircraft.
It appears to me, the helicopter never deviated or tried to avoid the aircraft.
Moo...

Additionally, the lights on the plane were SO bright.

 

[Simply Southern]

Additionally, the lights on the plane were SO bright.

I flew in (night) and out of DCA/National, (daylight) last week. I noticed so many helicopters and bumper to bumper air traffic. We were in a hold for landing due to traffic about 15 minutes.
It's not hard to see other planes, and DC is lit up like daylight when you fly over at night. Most are looking out the window to see the spectacular architecture below.
I would think the passengers on the right side saw the helicopter approaching, especially at night.
It takes may breath away hearing of the near misses in the past two weeks.
Moo...

 

[Charlot123]

From everything I’ve heard and read so far, the helicopter was not at eye level of the plane until they tragically collided. The plane was above the helicopter descending, which is why some people are theorizing that the plane was in the helicopter’s blind spot and vice versa

Hope this link is ok. This simulation helps give a better idea of how this happened because the video footage was confusing to me as well. See the 3:57 mark

He made a video that is lumping together three different catastrophes for 3 different reasons. I don’t think it is good because I foresee the entity taking the most financial fall eventually being civil aviation. People will be afraid to fly, there will be less revenue and that won’t increase safety.

And, in AzAl case, the civil pilots are the heroes no doubt; in Muan case - unclear, let us wait; In AA flight 5342, the pilots were doing their job in a professional way and have to be viewed as such.

The question with the catastrophic collision at the Reagan airport has to focus on height and speed of BH 600 IMHO. As people who fly, we’d like more transparency. We have all information about the position, speed and altitude of CRJ 700 flight 5342, FAA released all the communication of the ATC, and yet I haven’t heard officially any army statement about the height, the speed and the flight path of their helicopter.

The military may withhold the name of the helicopter pilot until the burial but it should not be forever IMHO. In 3-4 days they have to release it because: 1) witholding it = no transparency 2) it raises more questions about what else we are not aware of and 3) mainly, puts other helicopter pilots at risk as false information about the pilot might be easily generated by any frivolous source.

Investigation into deadly D.C. plane crash focuses on Black Hawk helicopter flight

What happened inside the Army Black Hawk helicopter in the moments before the fatal crash is key to unraveling the disaster, experts say.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Charlot123]

Blackhawk's can hoover in a stationary position, then turn on a dime. In 2002, while at work, we heard low flying helicopters, our building was shaking. We all ran outside, looked to the sky to see four Blackhawk helicopters hovering, with military personnel grappling down ropes in the middle of our road. We were petrified. It was a mock hostage training with the post office directly across from us, of which we we're not informed. These guys hovered or at least 30 minutes or more, hoisted up the "hostages" and sped away. Moo

Yes, unless in audio unreleased, AA was not notified. As per many articles the warning system on the AA flight was below the level of receiving a warning. Now we know the ATC was responsible for both the AA flight and the Blackhawk.

I heard, not sure of title, from the NTSB this am press conference. The Blackhawk recorder is only for inflight conversations, no inflight data available. He's hoping to learn from the inflight conversations what transpired. (Moo, cause I don't even remember what station it was on to try to get a link)

Perhaps the CVR may be enough. It is easy to determine the height at which the helicopter was flying and its speed. Why were they doing it is another question. I am suspecting more and more that it will end up the case of “deadly distraction” that happens so often on the roads. It can happen in air, human factor.

I once drove through the red light, being young and with a kid in the car. I can list all factors that led to it. Human factor is the same. For this case, I think that everything, the discipline at fort, the amount of sleep of each pilot the night before, who was sitting where, whether anyone was talking in the back, have to be taken into account. Also, medical factors: influenza A going around, did anyone have inflammation of Eustachian tube after it (more common this year)? I think Viagra and Cialis have been removed from FAA prohibited list, but in some cases (dose-and person-dependent) color-blindness and cyananopsia may persist for up to two weeks, and there were two men on board. Many factors we may simply never take into account, and yet they might have played the role.

Again, we are talking about the safety of the aviation per se. Its future, too.

 

[dotr]

Aviation engineer discusses how DC plane crash could change industry standard for safety features

A significant issue may have stemmed from the military Blackhawk helicopter involved in the collision - the lack of the Traffic Collision Avoidance System (TCAS) in military helicopters.

www.kwch.com

“They’re flying in civilian airspace,” said Lohkamp. “Why don’t they use civilian, you know, gear like that? The military needs to put TCAS on, and if any time they’re in civilian airspace it needs to be turned on. You know, it’s as simple as that.”

Lohkamp explained that while civilian aircraft are fitted with transponders that allow air traffic controllers to track their location, the systems used by military helicopters do not sync with civilian warning systems. This disconnect can leave pilots unaware of nearby aircraft and increases the risk of accidents.

“Why would you have military aircraft flying around a civilian airport when the warning systems that warn aircraft of other aircraft in the area aren’t even compatible, and they don’t speak to each other,” said Lohkamp. “It makes no sense.”

 

[Seattle1]

The helicopter had a full on front view. They had to have seen the plane, they were eye level, almost at the same height. There's a couple of other videos, moo, showing a greater length of time, traveling directly towards the aircraft.
It appears to me, the helicopter never deviated or tried to avoid the aircraft.
Moo...

Black Hawks are trained to pass under and/or behind the aircraft at low ceiling-- as little as 200 feet between craft and helicopter!. In this case, after twice before confirming to ATC the pilot had sight of the CRJ, minutes before the collision, ATC directed PAC-25 to pass behind the CRJ.

IMO, Black Hawk had probably already begun to deviate altitude +-150ft when directed to pass behind the descending CRJ making it more evident pilot likely had sight on wrong craft or unaware they passed 200 feet.

Many Black Hawk pilots have opined about night skies over water wearing NVG and not seeing the darkened CRJ on approach until on top of it. Safety at DCA only works here if both rules (VS and 200ft ceiling) by Black Hawks are followed for exactly this reason. MOO

Experts ask why Black Hawk helicopter may have been flying above allowed altitude before crash

This data point is one of several key mysteries investigators are exploring as they seek to explain what caused the nation's worst air disaster in more than a decade, aviation experts said.

www.cbsnews.com

Feith said he believes investigators from the NTSB and the military will be examining the altimeters in the helicopter to see if they malfunctioned, checking for any wind impact that could have hindered the pilot's ability to hold the helicopter at 200 feet, and exploring whether or not the crew should have been using night vision goggles.

He said the flight recorders on both aircraft will be helpful in determining what happened. Authorities reported that they had been recovered from the Potomac River on Thursday.

"If they had been at 200 feet, there wouldn't have been an issue because the plane typically would've been 400 to 500 feet off the ground," Feith said. "Those two RJ [regional jet] pilots didn't know what hit them until the helicopter hit them."

 

[Seattle1]

Search for victims in D.C. plane crash continues in Potomac River

An American Airlines plane with 64 people on board collided with an Army helicopter over Washington, D.C., and crashed into the Potomac River.

www.cbsnews.com

Helicopter crew's training mission was in case of capital attack​

1/31/25

The three soldiers were on the Army helicopter as part of a readiness exercise in the event of a catastrophic attack on the capital.

It's a plan that includes the mass evacuation and relocation of every federal government agency, including the White House.

Defense officials told CBS News flight operations for the 12th Aviation Battalion out of Virginia have been temporarily suspended by the U.S. military as investigators try to determine what happened on the training flight.

Chilling 'conspiracy' about Black Hawk in DC plane crash is TRUE

Defense sources confirmed the nature of the training exercise, after internet sleuths had floated a theory online that it was doing exactly what sources say.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Chimera]

other two airmen were men....is she solely responsible?

I don't think that's known yet.... condolences to the family regardless as this unnamed person perished as well !

Question for anyone who wants to answer : For a night flight, did they need at least one more visual spotter ?

Still imo this was a horrible accident and also imo many people pour their lives into their careers, and want to do their best.
So many families impacted and devastated.
Omo.

 

[Boxer]

Additionally, the lights on the plane were SO bright.

Whe you are faced with a vessel, plane or helicotpter the running lights tell the story.

"Red right returning" is ground into pilots and captains = red on the right means the thing is coming at you.

 

[Boxer]

I don't think that's known yet.... condolences to the family regardless as this unnamed person perished as well !

Question for anyone who wants to answer : For a night flight, did they need at least one more visual spotter ?

Still imo this was a horrible accident and also imo many people pour their lives into their careers, and want to do their best.
So many families impacted and devastated.
Omo.

Crewchief was the other pair of eyes.

 

[Elley Mae]

ADS-B

Without an ADS-B, the ATC operator could see where the helicopter was — but not how high it was flying. That’s because the helicopter was only equipped with a transponder, which can only provide locational data, according to Federal Aviation Administration guidance.

Helicopter in DC plane crash was flying twice as high as it should have, lacked new tech as FAA nixes all chopper traffic near collision site

The military helicopter that collided with an American Airlines flight over Washington, DC, was flying nearly twice as high as it should have been.

nypost.com

…

Not sure what to think.

So many lives lost for no damn reason.

Jmo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Additionally, the lights on the plane were SO bright.

Yes they are.

The CRJ was pointed towards the cameras in the videos we have seen while the helicopter was looking at the side of the airliner.

Did the helicopter actually see the CRJ before they banked left to line up with runway 33? I guess that's possible and PAT25 lost track of it later. Then they mistakenly thought another aircraft further away coming up the Potomac for runway 01 was the traffic that ATC was warning them about. JMO.

 

[sds71]

U.S. Army identifies the third soldier killed in the Blackhawk helicopter near Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport on Jan. 29. Capt. Rebecca Lobach served as a aviation officer.

@TomNovelly

"We are devastated by the loss of our beloved Rebecca. She was a bright star in all our lives. She was kind, generous, brilliant, funny, ambitious and strong. No one dreamed bigger or worked harder to achieve her goals," her family said in a statement

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885814765794079222

One of 3 soldiers aboard Black Hawk chopper involved in midair collision identified as longtime aviation officer

One of three soldiers aboard an Army Black Hawk helicopter that was involved in the deadly midair collision outside Washington, D.C., was identified as Capt. Rebecca Lobach.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Herat]

U.S. Army identifies the third soldier killed in the Blackhawk helicopter near Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport on Jan. 29. Capt. Rebecca Lobach served as a aviation officer.

One of 3 soldiers aboard Black Hawk chopper involved in midair collision identified as longtime aviation officer

One of three soldiers aboard an Army Black Hawk helicopter that was involved in the deadly midair collision outside Washington, D.C., was identified as Capt. Rebecca Lobach.

www.cbsnews.com

My sincere condolences to the family, friends, and colleagues of the late Capt. Lobach.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

ADS-B

Without an ADS-B, the ATC operator could see where the helicopter was — but not how high it was flying. That’s because the helicopter was only equipped with a transponder, which can only provide locational data, according to Federal Aviation Administration guidance.

Helicopter in DC plane crash was flying twice as high as it should have, lacked new tech as FAA nixes all chopper traffic near collision site

The military helicopter that collided with an American Airlines flight over Washington, DC, was flying nearly twice as high as it should have been.

nypost.com

…

Not sure what to think.

So many lives lost for no damn reason.

Jmo

Interesting. This is the first time I've heard that ATC can't see military helicopters altitude on their screens.

I see it displayed on the videos of the flight path used by the aircraft involved. JMO.

 

[Chimera]

Black Hawks are trained to pass under and/or behind the aircraft at low ceiling-- as little as 200 feet between craft and helicopter!. In this case, after twice before confirming to ATC the pilot had sight of the CRJ, minutes before the collision, ATC directed PAC-25 to pass behind the CRJ.

IMO, Black Hawk had probably already begun to deviate altitude +-150ft when directed to pass behind the descending CRJ making it more evident pilot likely had sight on wrong craft or unaware they passed 200 feet.

Many Black Hawk pilots have opined about night skies over water wearing NVG and not seeing the darkened CRJ on approach until on top of it. Safety at DCA only works here if both rules (VS and 200ft ceiling) by Black Hawks are followed for exactly this reason. MOO

Experts ask why Black Hawk helicopter may have been flying above allowed altitude before crash

This data point is one of several key mysteries investigators are exploring as they seek to explain what caused the nation's worst air disaster in more than a decade, aviation experts said.

www.cbsnews.com

Feith said he believes investigators from the NTSB and the military will be examining the altimeters in the helicopter to see if they malfunctioned, checking for any wind impact that could have hindered the pilot's ability to hold the helicopter at 200 feet, and exploring whether or not the crew should have been using night vision goggles.

He said the flight recorders on both aircraft will be helpful in determining what happened. Authorities reported that they had been recovered from the Potomac River on Thursday.

"If they had been at 200 feet, there wouldn't have been an issue because the plane typically would've been 400 to 500 feet off the ground," Feith said. "Those two RJ [regional jet] pilots didn't know what hit them until the helicopter hit them."

Thanks for the link. ^^^
The name of G. Feith sounded familiar -- I think he was one of the investigators on the Florida Everglades ValuJet Flight 592, 1996 crash ?

Yes, from the Wiki article on him, under, "Notable Investigations" :

Greg Feith - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He appears regularly as a guest aviation safety and security expert on KUSA-TV, NBC, MSNBC, while maintaining a busy speaking schedule with The Aviation Speakers Bureau.
Scrolling down a bit at your link, there was this article which seems to be an issue affecting more than just the Reagan Nt'l Airport :

Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

Less than 10% of the nation's airport terminal towers have enough air traffic controllers to meet a set of standards set by a working group that included the FAA and the controllers' union.

www.cbsnews.com

Less than 10% of the nation's airport terminal towers have enough air traffic controllers to meet a set of standards set by a working group that included the Federal Aviation Administration and the controllers' union, according to a CBS News analysis of FAA data.

Imo.

 

[DS2021]

So, we have confirmation on Sean's age. He was 11. His mother Julie was on board as well

Man Whose Wife and Son Died in D.C. Plane Crash Says He Called Her, Not Knowing What Happened: 'She Didn't Pick Up'

Delaware dad Vitali Kay is speaking out after losing both his wife Julia and 11-year-old son Sean in the D.C. plane crash.

people.com

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Petchenik cautioned that the flight tracking data for the Black Hawk is imperfect. The military helicopter was sending a Mode S signal, which transmits basic data about altitude and aircraft identification. The American Airlines flight was broadcasting an ADS-B signal, which provides far more information to air traffic control.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/31/us/black-hawk-helicopter-plane-collision-investigation-wwk/index.html

 

[DS2021]

What an absolute badass

Redirect Notice

Lobach’s friends describe her as giving, fun, and “golden,” saying she was a bright light, a capable pilot, and good friend.

Friends who went through ROTC with Lobach at UNC Chapel Hill say she was up for a challenge and determined. Every one of them pointed out her status as a distinguished military graduate, meaning she was in the top 20% of all cadets across the country.

“She was a patriot, she loved her country,” said Sam Brown, a close friend of Lobach’s. “She was everything I wanted to be, and then to like have her as one of my best friends, to this day, we were so fortunate.”

Her family also listed her highest achievements in their statement. Among them were

Achieving the rank of Captain,
Serving twice as a Platoon Leader and as a Company Executive Officer in the 12th Aviation Battalion at Davison Army Airfield in Fort Belvoir, Virginia,
Serving as a White House Military Social Aide,
Accumulating more than 450 hours of flight time, and
Earning a certification as a pilot-in-command after extensive testing by the most senior and experienced pilots in her battalion

 

[DS2021]

I would like to know how she performed in aviation school. Mid-range to top, I'd have no questions. Training accident. Bottom 2%, I'd ask why was she even a pilot at Fort Belvoire?

See my above post