DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[Simply Southern]

What could be interesting about the runway change may be found in the cockpit voice recorder. There was about a 20 second delay from when the controller asked the CRJ if they would accept runway 33 instead of the preferred longer straight in runway 01.

Did the pilots of the CRJ have a discussion amongst themselves about whether is would be alright to use runway 33? The airplane that landed right ahead of the accident plane was asked to do the same runway change and they declined. JMO.

Runway 33 is shorter.
The airport closes at 10 pm. Air traffic backs up the closer to 10 pm. They're trying to get everyone in and out before 10 or the flights are deferred to Dulles and BWI. It's a one to two hour commute back to DCA, if diverted and passengers are not happy.

I was surprised the tower was short one at a peak time.
Moo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Runway 33 is shorter.
The airport closes at 10 pm. Air traffic backs up the closer to 10 pm. They're trying to get everyone in and out before 10 or the flights are deferred to Dulles and BWI. It's a one to two hour commute back to DCA, if diverted and passengers are not happy.

I was surprised the tower was short one at a peak time.
Moo

Why does an airport that busy close so early?

ETA. I just checked my local airport, Sacramento International, and the last flights land between midnight and 1:00AM.

 

[Simply Southern]

Should not have been offered 33 while a helicopter on route 4 IMO.

But its probably not a rule they had in the tower- but should have had.

I don't think they had a choice, other than to put planes in a holding pattern. DCA only has three runways and there was a plane waiting to take off on runway one. I also think timing play a role in the decision. The airport closes at 10:00 and they're trying to get all the flights in/out. This accident was around 8:53 pm.
Moo

 

[Simply Southern]

I agree. Good situational awareness would have the controller not try to force all of those aircraft into both landing and transiting.

It would have been safer for the CRJ to be told to go around and re-sequence for landing. JMO.

Absolutely agree!!!

 

[Sundog]

The military was respecting the wishes of her family. I don’t think it made them look odd at all. IMO it was the right thing to do and very honorable

As long as those in command were giving the same options to all three of the families of service members who lost their lives in the helicopter crash, then it wouldn't be odd. But we had identification of two of the service members early on, and without long statements of their credentials, etc. from their families. Maybe they didn't realize that they could ask for time to put that together and in that way honor their loved ones.

 

[Simply Southern]

Why does an airport that busy close so early?

ETA. I just checked my local airport, Sacramento International, and the last flights land between midnight and 1:00AM.

Noise ordinance. DCA it's actually located in Arlington.
Edited to add link

DCA Reagan National - Aircraft Noise FAQ

Frequently Asked Questions about Aircraft Noise at Reagan National

www.flyreagan.com

: An operational curfew has never existed at Reagan National (DCA). In 1981, specific nighttime noise limits established for Reagan National were imposed between 10 p.m. and 6:59 a.m. which became known as the DCA Nighttime Noise Rule. The DCA Nighttime Noise Rule was established to define:

 

[ilovewings]

I just finished watching the NTSB press conference. I found the reporters questions to be very poor. Some seemed to have not been following this accident very closely at all and asked poor questions. Others had a hard time understanding the information being given and keep asking the same thing over and over even when explained in a way a child could figure it out. JMO.

I get irritated with reporter's questions in almost every crisis situation: I see these people as asking stupid repetitive questions, often just hoping to get a headline for an article they plan to write. they get on my one last nerve. the NTSB guy was pretty fed up too- he said that he had answered that question several times---

 

[Charlot123]

You have the altitude information right, it's preliminary info of what the tower could see the helicopters altitude was at. Obviously if the CRJ's known altitude at the time of the collision was around 325 feet the helicopter was also at that same altitude.

I'm guessing the NTSB brought up the lower altitude seen by ATC in an attempt to minimize perceived controller error by the public. Not sure that's a good thing for them to be doing.

From listening to ATC audio there wasn't much of a discussion about the CRJ changing to runway 33 other than ATC asking if they would accept that and after about a 20 second wait they said okay. JMO.

Respectfully, we don’t know what it means. Maybe it means that the altitude sensed by the ATC radar from the CRJ transponder is more precise than the altitude from BH transponder. Maybe BH had no transponder on. Maybe heli pilots are just told not to go above 200 feet and everyone assumes they follow the rules. Obviously they did not. We don’t know yet.

All we see is that the military helicopter hits the civilian airplane. This one can’t reverse.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Noise ordinance. DCA it's actually located in Arlington.

Sounds like they need to lower the number of flights. No matter who complains. This isn't the only airport that I've heard having problems with too many planes trying to land and take off at the same time. JFK and SFO are a couple of them.

If they don't get a handle on this there's going to be another Tenerife type disaster with hundreds of people killed. JMO.

 

[justtrish]

I have no knowledge of the training or operations inside a heli/ATC/etc. Am I understanding these reports correctly that she was not only an experienced pilot but a top 20% pilot (or is top 20% cadet a different metric)?
To someone with knowledge, how does this impact your perception of this event? Does it at all?
(Set aside anything race, gender, etc. - I am curious based on the metrics/experience)

'Earned her place': Friends grieve Rebecca Lobach, US Army pilot killed in DC crash

The Army withheld the name of Capt. Rebecca Lobach, the US Army pilot killed in a disastrous crash on Wednesday, for an extra day.

www.yahoo.com

I take this to mean she graduated in the top 20% of cadets in college. Looks like she did the ROTC program at UNC.

I feel like any pilot who graduates flight school is well qualified. Becoming an aviator is not something someone just barely gets through. They have basic flight school, then their specific training for the helicopter they will fly. They also have SERE school (survival, evasion, resistance, escape), which is not easy. There are plenty of jobs in the Army that someone could just wing it in school and make it, but someone doesn't become a helicopter pilot in the Army without first being chosen to do so and then dedicating serious time to studying and passing the school. If she was top 20% in college, I think it's fair to assume she was just as dedicated to flight school.

All IMO

 

[theonewithallthequestions]

Further clarification in response to your edit:

Most of what's going to be available from any news outlets isn't going to say much of anything about her competence as a pilot. The news media doesn't know and doesn't care to learn how most of this stuff works or what it means. One would expect a pilot to be in the top 20% of their ROTC class, cadets have very little choice in what they end up doing and that's the only way to increase your odds of getting into something like aviation. Officers are only ever going to speak well of their colleagues both as a matter of etiquette, and also what the PAO is going to allow to be passed on to the press. Some of her other engagements are potentially of note, but need more context; every unit has SHARP victim advocate positions to fill, White House assignments may only draw from local units, etc.. Unless consistent anecdotal testimony from people she ferried emerges or her records from courses she would have gone through her first couple years in get FOIA'd, it's honestly not really something we're going to be able to guess from afar.

While I would expect officers to speak well of their colleagues, I don’t think they’d lie or embellish. It sounds like she was intelligent, hard working, skilled, and qualified.

 

[Dotta]

Noise ordinance. DCA it's actually located in Arlington.
Edited to add link

DCA Reagan National - Aircraft Noise FAQ

Frequently Asked Questions about Aircraft Noise at Reagan National

www.flyreagan.com

: An operational curfew has never existed at Reagan National (DCA). In 1981, specific nighttime noise limits established for Reagan National were imposed between 10 p.m. and 6:59 a.m. which became known as the DCA Nighttime Noise Rule. The DCA Nighttime Noise Rule was established to define:

Quiet hours

Thanks for this info!

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Respectfully, we don’t know what it means. Maybe it means that the altitude sensed by the ATC radar from the CRJ transponder is more precise than the altitude from BH transponder. Maybe BH had no transponder on. Maybe heli pilots are just told not to go above 200 feet and everyone assumes they follow the rules. Obviously they did not. We don’t know yet.

All we see is that the military helicopter hits the civilian airplane. This one can’t reverse.

Yes, we don't know yet. That's why I speculated on why the NTSB even brought it up when they don't have the facts yet. JMO.

 

[Simply Southern]

I get irritated with reporter's questions in almost every crisis situation: I see these people as asking stupid repetitive questions, often just hoping to get a headline for an article they plan to write. they get on my one last nerve. the NTSB guy was pretty fed up too- he said that he had answered that question several times---

He very informative, detail and passionate about his work, in my opinion. He wants to make sure he communicates correct information and only has the information from the CRJ.

I thought it appeared the press was trying to pressure him into answering a question he didn't have an answer for. He did become emotional, after the press ask the same question four or five times consecutively.
MO

 

[Simply Southern]

Respectfully, we don’t know what it means. Maybe it means that the altitude sensed by the ATC radar from the CRJ transponder is more precise than the altitude from BH transponder. Maybe BH had no transponder on. Maybe heli pilots are just told not to go above 200 feet and everyone assumes they follow the rules. Obviously they did not. We don’t know yet.

All we see is that the military helicopter hits the civilian airplane. This one can’t reverse.

The only data he has is from the tower and the CRJ. The Blackhawk recorder has water and in the process of drying out.

The 200' was a reading from the tower. He said the tower data updates every 4 seconds and they are reviewing further back.
@RANCH please correct me if I'm off base. Thanks

 

[justtrish]

Bbm.
JMO-- Four minutes isn't very long.
So, was it because the control tower saw the helicopter heading that way and surmised they (heli.) were already too high and way above the 200 ft ceiling ?

The more that comes out about this crash the more I fear it was completely preventable.
As in, someone messed up and I'm not ready to say who since I still have no firm idea.
Still not discounting the readouts/dials/altimeter being wonky, though.
Omo.

It is very unfortunate and it sounds like if the plane landed on runway 1 as was the original plan, then no crash happens. Was the change simply to get the plane waiting to take off out quicker?

 

[ilovewings]

Yes, we don't know yet. That's why I speculated on why the NTSB even brought it up when they don't have the facts yet. JMO.

I agree,with you that perhaps they should have waited until they had more
Facts------ I think because this,case is so high profile, they are trying to be
As transparent as possible so they are providing some factual information
Before they have all the answers --- not so sure this is such a good idea

 

[theonewithallthequestions]

As long as those in command were giving the same options to all three of the families of service members who lost their lives in the helicopter crash, then it wouldn't be odd. But we had identification of two of the service members early on, and without long statements of their credentials, etc. from their families. Maybe they didn't realize that they could ask for time to put that together and in that way honor their loved ones.

The wife on Andrew Eaves was the one to first post his identity on Facebook in a tribute on Thursday

Ryan O’Hara’s father did an interview in which he was extremely empathetic towards the then unidentified pilot’s family so I can’t imagine he took issue with identity being withheld or that he/his family wasn’t given that same option by the military.

Father of helicopter crew chief in D.C. crash reacts to Trump's blame of DEI

Reaction to President Trump's comments about DEI and the Washington, D.C., plane crash is coming from Gary O'Hara, the father of Ryan O'Hara who was crew chief on the Black Hawk helicopter that collided with an American Airlines plane Wednesday. Timothy Lilley is also speaking out about his son...

www.cbsnews.com

The other two service members weren’t facing unfair attacks on their capabilities. I don’t think that can be ignored as I’m sure that did factor into the decision making

 

[Deleted member 39678]

It is very unfortunate and it sounds like if the plane landed on runway 1 as was the original plan, then no crash happens. Was the change simply to get the plane waiting to take off out quicker?

If I remember correctly it was a combination of the accident CRJ being too close behind the preceding landing aircraft and the need to have time for the other aircraft to takeoff on 01. So the controller asked the CRJ to use 33 to create more spacing on runway 01. JMO.

If you look at the videos showing what the traffic was like that night it was crazy busy.

 

[Simply Southern]

It is very unfortunate and it sounds like if the plane landed on runway 1 as was the original plan, then no crash happens. Was the change simply to get the plane waiting to take off out quicker?

This is one of the busiest runway in the nation with complex challenges.

https://www.axios.com/local/washington-dc/2025/01/30/dca-reagan-busiest-airport-runway

....
Navigating the skies around DCA is notoriously challenging. Its short runways sit along the Potomac River in one of the most-protected airspaces in the country, and pilots often have to share the area with low-flying military helicopters.

And as the tussle for more flights has been driven by airlines and members of Congress — many of whom want direct flights home — the airport has become increasingly congested: It was built to accommodate 15 million passengers a year, but now sees 25 million.
The main runway is now the country's busiest, according to the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority (MWAA).